Clutch disaster

[dsmp]

Hello Bimmerfest. I am new to the forums, my appologies for my first and ugly post.

Bought a 135i june 7,08

No major problems
has 8000kms to date
3000+ are highway from calgary to victoria in august.
No mods.
Never raced.
Obeyed the break in period

Sept 16 - coming home. Take off from a stop sign, feel heavy clutch slip. I stop immediatly. Check the cluster for temp/cel. Nothing. Try an easy take off. Huge clutch slip. Push in clutch pedal, and only goes in halfway, and then feelings of grinding. Shut off car push it home.

Sept 17 towed first thing to CALGARY BMW

Sept 24 The car sits till after i went in the night before and bitched, this is a new car blah blah blah.

New clutch kit orderd and flywheel.
Car not even looked at

Sept 25 Taken apart, and im told clutch, flywheel and slave cylinder are hooped due to abuse. I go in to take a look, and in fact bolts had to be grinded due to such heat. Definitly not cool. The tech says ONLY from abuse does this happen. I asked what he means. He says "smoking the tires, brake stands, etc". I point to my tires which have the "nubs still visible". he agrees tires are fine, but still thinks clutch failed because of me.

Agree to let them do the job, even though i am going to contact bmw canada, and am not please. COST = 2823 CAN.

Sept 26 Car is supposed to be ready. BMW calls at 4:30 pm. good news. Says she can take 10% off labour, and 15% off parts. BAD news : The "clutch pedal is broken"(im assuming linkage of some sort), and master cylinder is blown, among some other things. She cant provide details. Parts are three weeks lead time from germany.

Not covered under warranty. Claim is that after the clutch failed, i attempted to push the clutch so hard i did this damage.

WOW am i pissed.

Any thoughts? I will post my pictures.

[dsmp]

pics

[Ryan M]

Wow, sorry to hear. The pressure plate is cracked, the disc is burnt, and the bellhousing looks like it has a birds nest in it from all of the burnt material. It is possible that is was installed wrong/defective parts were used from the factory. It's been known to happen. You have to remember, even the engineers/techs who work for BMW are only human. However, it's a shame to believe that they are accusing you of abuse. Especially with only 8000kms on her. Even through abuse it would be hard to destroy a clutch that fast.

[Fast Bob]

That clutch is DESTROYED!!!! It would be damn near impossible for you to have done that, unless you drove around CONSTANTLY with the clutch halfway engaged and full throttle applied....are they fu@kin` KIDDING me ? That should definitely be replaced as defective....get a lawyer if they refuse.

[NewBMWownr]

There are some pretty huge shreds of lining floating around in bell housing. Looks to me more like mechanical damage than riding the clutch or doing any of the things that the dealer is insinuating caused the failure. Looks like a pretty big piece of the outer race on the clutch idler bearing (3rd photo, top row) is missing. This could very easily be the culprit. All that has to happen is that something get between the pressure plate and the clutch disk or the flywheel and the clutch disk and it will cause the friction material to be shredded off the clutch disk. Once enough material is removed the clutch fails to work properly. Need to look at the clutch disk and the pressure plate for signs of galling. (need to see the other side of the pressure plate in photo 1 and also the clutch disk.) see following link for the multitudes of ways a clutch can fail. Note also that the parts often look the same after failure: http://www.exedyusa.com/multimedia/specsheets/trblshtng06.pdf

[dsmp]

That was the first thing i noticed and pointed out when i went to review the situation. Is it not possible the piece broke off and ripped the clutch apart? i dunno, but BMW staff were more interested in pointing out the aftermath, rather than try in any way to suggest what might of caused this. They had only one conclusion. Abuse. Bull****.

I havent so much as ate a sandwich inside that car. Don't tell me that ive beat the snot out of it so bad, that every moving piece of the clutch, from the pedal to the bell housing is destroyed because of my abusive driving in 8000kms

I mean, if that was the case, wouldnt anyone on these forums that have "modded" their 135s have nothing but problems? Dinan is offering huge performance gains, and i havent read about people blowing apart clutches.

What the hell?!





There are some pretty huge shreds of lining floating around in bell housing. Looks to me more like mechanical damage than riding the clutch or doing any of the things that the dealer is insinuating caused the failure. Looks like a pretty big piece of the outer race on the clutch idler bearing (3rd photo, top row) is missing. This could very easily be the culprit. All that has to happen is that something get between the pressure plate and the clutch disk or the flywheel and the clutch disk and it will cause the friction material to be shredded off the clutch disk. Once enough material is removed the clutch fails to work properly. Need to look at the clutch disk and the pressure plate for signs of galling. (need to see the other side of the pressure plate in photo 1 and also the clutch disk.) see following link for the multitudes of ways a clutch can fail. Note also that the parts often look the same after failure: http://www.exedyusa.com/multimedia/specsheets/trblshtng06.pdf

[BMW_tech]

Go back and take pictures of the slave and master cylinder. If the rod on the slave cylinder had come apart it could be the reason why it looks like a grenade blew up in your transmission. Theres lots of heat to have caused all that. Even the worst driver would have let off the pedal at the smell or even sight of smoke from the clutch. It would have made lots of noise until the throw out bearing seizes which suggests the theory. The master could have been leaking and developed air bubbles that caused the slave to stick at the extended position much like if the clutch was halfway in and halfway out. Take them for a ride and prove that you know how to manually shift gears. I would have to see it for myself before I accuse you of abuse. BMWNA has realized and stopped blaming the ones who make them richer, as a customer you should contact BMWCanada now and have an FSE or field service engineer inspect the vehicle and the old parts. Let the person you contacted know all the details and describe the events when you were left stranded on the side of the roadway. I have seen many of these scenarios. If I see that the flywheel is blue and the throwout bearing is seized, I wouldn't blame the driver. Only if I see the flywheel pitted and chunks of clutch materials are imprinted on the surface of the flywheel and the clutch material is worn to the rivets and not grenaded like yours, Id say it's a clutch driver. They can also look into the DSC memory and see if you have been launching this like an amateur drag racer where it is the clutch smoking and not the tires. Regardless of the outcome, honesty is the best policy. Good luck to you.

[dsmp]

Go back and take pictures of the slave and master cylinder. If the rod on the slave cylinder had come apart it could be the reason why it looks like a grenade blew up in your transmission. Theres lots of heat to have caused all that. Even the worst driver would have let off the pedal at the smell or even sight of smoke from the clutch. It would have made lots of noise until the throw out bearing seizes which suggests the theory. The master could have been leaking and developed air bubbles that caused the slave to stick at the extended position much like if the clutch was halfway in and halfway out. Take them for a ride and prove that you know how to manually shift gears. I would have to see it for myself before I accuse you of abuse. BMWNA has realized and stopped blaming the ones who make them richer, as a customer you should contact BMWCanada now and have an FSE or field service engineer inspect the vehicle and the old parts. Let the person you contacted know all the details and describe the events when you were left stranded on the side of the roadway. I have seen many of these scenarios. If I see that the flywheel is blue and the throwout bearing is seized, I wouldn't blame the driver. Only if I see the flywheel pitted and chunks of clutch materials are imprinted on the surface of the flywheel and the clutch material is worn to the rivets and not grenaded like yours, Id say it's a clutch driver. They can also look into the DSC memory and see if you have been launching this like an amateur drag racer where it is the clutch smoking and not the tires. Regardless of the outcome, honesty is the best policy. Good luck to you.

Thanks for your input.

a. If the master cylinder had been leaking, where would be the most obvious place to look?

b. I was told even before the car was taken apart, that if there were any "blue" i would not be covered. I am curious why your opinion on "blue" doesnt draw definite conclusions, whereas at Calgary BMW, "blue" = abuse