Lack of choices from BMWNA

[OBS3SSION]

What is it about the US divisions of European car makers. BMW is not the only culprit, but the only one that matters in this discussion. Why is it that we in the US are denied so many things, that other countries have?

I think I can bet that a goodly number of members here would welcome the Individual program. Or some of the other engine choices available in Europe, like the diesels. (Sure... diesel may be misunderstood by many Americans, but VW sells a lot of them.) Even some models fail to make it over here. What's this I hear about the 1/2 series? From the rumors I'm hearing, we'll be lucky to get one or two of the many configurations of that car.

Isn't the US one of BMW's larger markets? If so, why deny us so much?

Another thing... and this has to do with ordering cars that ARE available in the US. Why can't we choose a wheel that WE want? You can CUSTOM ORDER a car from the factory, yet one of the simplest things to change, the wheels, we are told we can't. Heck, you even let me order my 3er with Tourmaline Violet... a color not even available on the 3er in the US! But if we want wheels other than what comes with the car, we have to buy them IN ADDITION, and then have two sets. When I ordered my 330i with sport package, I had two choices: the standard sport wheels, or the "upgrade" to the 18" wheels. Well, I don't want 18" wheels, which I like no better anyway. Yet the BMW catalog has dozens of other 17" wheels, of which I would have preferred 2 or 3 of them over what came with the car.

Well, guess what... I most likely WON'T be buying the (overpriced) wheels from the BMW catalog now. I'll either live with the wheels I don't care for, or purchase a quality set of BBS or other high-end wheels... FOR LESS than what BMW charges for comparable wheels. You would have been better off offering me the wheels in the beginning, even if there was a nominal charge. But how dare you try to sell me a complete SECOND set, and make no concessions on the set that came with the car.

Thank you for listening to my gripes.

[Tanning machine]

I agree. The wheels really get me, since the installation has minimal cost. It's not like a paint job that can't be changed or some special color of leather. (And I can understand not offering diesels if they decide the market won't sell enough; we can't get the 2.0l gas engine in the 3ers either, or the 3.0l in the 7 series)

I always wonder whether it's the absence of a binding contract that causes this, but I just don't get how a dealer can't take a sizable deposit that's binding in these circumstances. You know, if you want special paint it will cost you $5000 deposit that's not refundable.

Plenty of other businesses have non-refundable deposits--like any home furnishings store--once you order the material, no refunds. Are car dealers that screwed on refunds? It's one thing when you reject a car that can be easily sold for the same amount, but if you buy some weird spec'd car, why isn't there a contract?

It really is annoying, and more frustrating because BMW NA doesn't really explain it to people.

[bmw325]

Agree. the resistance to putting different wheels on has always perplexed me. It doesn't help that the new wheel styles keep getting uglier.

[Spectre]

And there are plenty of less controversial things that it would be nice to be able to order on a car that's destined for European Delivery. Jon has noted that ED and special orders are mutually exclusive. What makes a car that's going to be picked up in Munich that much harder to sell if the buyer backs out of the deal?:dunno:

Things like Nappa leather, rear sunshades, special colors (most of them anyhow) can't be that hard to sell. Heck, if an ED buyer backed out, ship the car to the dealer and let him sell it. I've got to think there would be buyers out there who would pounce on a unique BMW on the lot just to have one that was different that the myriad TiAg's on the road. :D

[Tanning machine]

Originally posted by Spectre
Jon has noted that ED and special orders are mutually exclusive. What makes a car that's going to be picked up in Munich that much harder to sell if the buyer backs out of the deal?:dunno:

Things like Nappa leather, rear sunshades, special colors (most of them anyhow) can't be that hard to sell

I assume the fear is that the dealer has no real interest in the car. It's not out of the dealer's allocation, and BMW probably can't just ship it to the dealer. Otherwise, dealers would start to place a bunch of false orders for ED cars just to increase their allocation.

But, it still makes no sense with ED. I bet there are even fewer backouts, and you have to pay well in advance. Isn't before the car is even built? (If not, they could move payment up 15 days). AGain, the deposit could cure any problem

[Desertnate]

My gripe goes beyond the wheels...

What about the options as a whole. The whole package thing stinks. The European buyers get to order each option individually. Granted this is because of the taxes they have to pay, but the result is a car spec'ed out EXACTLY as they want it. There are a host of things that I would like to have had off of the other packages, but not others when I bought my car. Additionally, linking packages together is just a low blow as well.

[stsmytherie]

I agree with all of the above, and add the following:

Why is it so freakin' hard to import ROW car that is virtually identical to models currently imported to the US?

OK, maybe the dealer network doesn't want the added complexity of selling/servicing every engine and body combination. But, if I'm willing to do the work of ordering the car, picking it up in Germany, and shipping it to the US, why would I have to jump through the hoops of federalizing it (largely paperwork, but expensive and time-consuming)?

[Tanning machine]

Originally posted by Desertnate
My gripe goes beyond the wheels...

What about the options as a whole. The whole package thing stinks. The European buyers get to order each option individually.

Isn't there a pretty good discount from the packages vs. separately on the options? I agree, it would be nice to be able to order a bunch of options, but at least the packages create a discount.

[Tanning machine]

Originally posted by stsmytherie
I agree with all of the above, and add the following:

Why is it so freakin' hard to import ROW car that is virtually identical to models currently imported to the US?

OK, maybe the dealer network doesn't want the added complexity of selling/servicing every engine and body combination. But, if I'm willing to do the work of ordering the car, picking it up in Germany, and shipping it to the US, why would I have to jump through the hoops of federalizing it (largely paperwork, but expensive and time-consuming)?

If it costs BMW $$$ to certify each engine and car, it makes sense not to import them all. Why incur a $1m cost to import something like the 318ti, which, despite the many enthusiasts, didn't sell very well?

[OBS3SSION]

That is a logical reason why certain models/engines do not show up in the US. Too bad the US regulations are so "strict" as to filter so many good cars out of the country.

However, this is no excuse as to why I couldn't order my Type 42 composite cross spokes! Hell, even the MINI brand has several options on the car configurator for wheels. I just don't get it... they let me get a non-standard paint color, but not the wheel I wanted.

Oh...... I get it...... They want to make more money. They figure that they'll sell me a car with the cost of the standard wheels figured in. Then I'll run out and spend $1500 for a second set of wheels at the parts department. That probably makes BMWNA a nice, hefty profit. Well, guess what. I WON'T be buying BMW wheels. So you just lost some potential profit. Now, if you would have just charged me an extra $500 when I ordered the car and given me the (less expensive than the standard wheels) wheels I wanted, you'd have that profit in your coffers, and I'd be a happy customer.

[Robert A]

Europeans have so much more flexibility - and Americans who are willing to wait should too.

Europeans can specify every option separately down the steering wheel, exterior trim, suspension type, etc. And almost none of these choices has anything to do with emissions or safety standards.

The new E60 is a continuation of this methodology. For example, if you want the sports package, you automatically get dynamic drive and active steering. If you don't want the sports package, you can't get any of these others.

It boggles my mind that we can't have greater flexibility in our choices!

[AF]

I definitely agree about the wheel choices . . . we should be given the opportunity if we custom orderi to get the wheels we want . . .

Plus it always bothered me I had to order Premium package just to get the Lumbar support . . .

Also, Robert makes a good point . . . why can't we have the exact options and specs we want . . . the USA customer gets so screwed on this yet we are one of BMW's biggest markets

[Robert A]

_lk_ , I respectfully disagree with your logic. The reason U.S. customers don't have that flexibility has nothing to do with the fact that they can walk away from their orders. It's the dealers and not BMW that would get stuck with the car anyway.

The two reasons I suspect that we cannot custom build our cars like Europeans are, 1) most Americans don't demand it, and 2) it's cheaper for the distributor to limit our choices.

[prof_loves_bmw]

My beef regarding choices would be the trannies, why can't we have the Steptronic on the M3? BMW used to offer it on the E36 M3. The argument that the only people interested in an M3 demand a manual in the first place is bogus. While they may very well be a majority, BMW most certainly IS losing sales on that car by not offering an auto tranny option. I simply cannot buy a $50K+ car that is used by the wife and for commuting that only I could drive.

If they did offer a step option, I can assure you I'd have bought an M3 for my last two cars instead of a 330i.

[Robert A]

The Steptronic isn't offered on the M3 in Europe. Would you like BMW to make an "Americanised" version of the M3 with an automatic transmission, maybe a softer suspension and a generally detuned car to suit "American" tastes?

I for one prefer home-market cars. Give it to me the way the Germans get it.

[Spectre]

Originally posted by prof_loves_bmw
My beef regarding choices would be the trannies, why can't we have the Steptronic on the M3? BMW used to offer it on the E36 M3. The argument that the only people interested in an M3 demand a manual in the first place is bogus. While they may very well be a majority, BMW most certainly IS losing sales on that car by not offering an auto tranny option. I simply cannot buy a $50K+ car that is used by the wife and for commuting that only I could drive.

If they did offer a step option, I can assure you I'd have bought an M3 for my last two cars instead of a 330i.
SMG II comes pretty close to doing what you need -- your wife could use it in automatic mode (although it isn't quite as smooth as a torque converter), and you could use it in manual mode to select gears (clutchlessly). A fair compromise, I put to you.

[WILLIA///M]

Originally posted by ___lk___
as answered so many times before, the reason u can't spec them ala carte is that in the USA, u dont HAVE to actually BUY an ordered car. u can back out of the deal at anytime, as long as you have not physically driven off the dealer lot. doesn't matter what u sign, what u said, what u intended.. until u pull away in that car, u dont have to take it.

so that could leave the dealer in a real tight spot when nobody wants to buy that mustard yellow 325i w/ the birch trim and red seats that u backed out on before delivery. :rolleyes:

Can't we fix this somehow? I'd bet a high percentage of the people who order cars would sign some kind of contract. Do US consumer laws prohibit this?:dunno:

[Tanning machine]

Originally posted by Topaz330xi
Can't we fix this somehow? I'd bet a high percentage of the people who order cars would sign some kind of contract. Do US consumer laws prohibit this?:dunno:

I don't buy that this can't be done. I'm sure plenty of states have recission laws that allow you out of a deposit on a usual car, but I have a hunch they wouldn't apply to "custom" orders and things like that. It should be easy to tell any purchaser that they have ordered several "custom" options that require a deposit and can't be backed out of.

Also, there's no reason they couldn't do it dealer by dealer. For example, if California has really "consumer friendly" laws that allow people to back out at any time, there would be no obligation for a california dealer to offer special options. Other dealers still could, though.

[TD]

lk is right.

This has been discussed to death over the years, including having the subject come up in interviews with BMWNA top brass in the Roundel. It IS the US legal environment that prevents these choices. Apparently you cannot legally set up a contract that prevents the buyer from walking if they choose to. And we all know how litigious the US is.

I guarantee that at least a few dealers (Cutter?) would jump at the chance to make true special orders and would gladly do what was necessary were it possible. But BMWNA won't let them.

And I am not going to touch the post lamenting the lack of availability of a slushbox M3. :mad:

[Robert A]

I still don't buy the argument about American consumer protection laws preventing special order cars and BMW Individual. BMW Individual is currently offered in Canada and I'm not sure that their laws are much different from ours. It's also offered in virtually every other market in the world -- but the U.S., and I've got to believe that some of them have similar protection laws as well.

Moreover, Porsche currently allows complete customization of their cars in the U.S., and Mercedes offers a program similar to Individual.

It is really too bad, though, that you can't at least specifiy your own wheels.

[Stuka]

Originally posted by prof_loves_bmw
My beef regarding choices would be the trannies, why can't we have the Steptronic on the M3? BMW used to offer it on the E36 M3. The argument that the only people interested in an M3 demand a manual in the first place is bogus. While they may very well be a majority, BMW most certainly IS losing sales on that car by not offering an auto tranny option. I simply cannot buy a $50K+ car that is used by the wife and for commuting that only I could drive.

If they did offer a step option, I can assure you I'd have bought an M3 for my last two cars instead of a 330i.

A few things:

1. The U.S. E36 M3 is NOT a real M3.:tsk: The techincal details are too long to even list.

2. I am GLAD that they don't make slushies for the M3.:flipoff: They already decided to waste $$ programming the auto mode for the SMG which I have used exactly twice in my 30K of having this car. Instead of catering to people who can't drive stick which they have done, they should have spent the R&D $$ on programming the non-blip off throttle downshift (when braking less than 8/10th) that really annoys me.:spank:

3. I hope that BMW NEVER EVER detunes a car for us 'mericans again. If I want a slushie softly sprung car, I'll get a Caddy.:loco:

4. It's just stick shift, it is NOT frigging rocket science. :rolleyes:

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG

[Stuka]

Originally posted by Robert A
I still don't buy the argument about American consumer protection laws preventing special order cars and BMW Individual.

AFAIK, the laws in many states require that the deposit for cars be refundable.:dunno:

What if you ordered a pink exterior 325 with Kiwi interior, then when it comes time for delivery, you decided that the combo sucked, and you demand that the dealer refund your deposit $$?

In CA, the dealer is SOL.:nono:

Until we can get over this hurdle, and simply browsing roadfly will net many of these people who order weird combo then back out, we will probably never get BMW individual.:behead:

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG

[Robert A]

Andy, you don't think that BMW has problems of this type anywhere else? BMW Individual is presently offered in Canada, throughout Europe, the Middle East, South Africa, Australia, etc. You don't think one of these counties has a problem with buyers refusing to take delivery of a special ordered car?

The problem IMO is that American preferences dictate prepackaged choices for prepackaged consumers. Most people buy their cars off the lot. They wouldn't even consider waiting two to three months for a specially built car. It's just the way most of us think.

And I'll tell you this: BMW Individual is available in the U.S. There is a dealer in Los Angeles that can arrange such a car, but it isn't easy and it is expensive.

[Stuka]

Originally posted by Robert A
And I'll tell you this: BMW Individual is available in the U.S. There is a dealer in Los Angeles that can arrange such a car, but it isn't easy and it is expensive.

I am tight with my cool dealer in IN, and if it wasn't for my license longevity issue, my dealer would have ordered me the following car:

Dakar Yellow
Alcantara Interior
Non-smiker's package
Storage tray with no retarded armrest
That is it

This can already be done, and for me at no extra charge.:thumbup: You know why? because my dealer trust that I'll take the car, and not stick him with a yellow car with no sunroof.:angel:

Most of the options that you guys are talking about are available, you just have to convince the dealer that you won't walk.:dunno:

Andy
02 M3 CB/Cloth SMG

[ff]

Originally posted by prof_loves_bmw
My beef regarding choices would be the trannies, why can't we have the Steptronic on the M3?


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: steptronic on an M3? Isn't that kind of like ordering a boloney sandwhich when eating at a 5-star restaurant?

[SONET]

Originally posted by ff
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: steptronic on an M3? Isn't that kind of like ordering a boloney sandwhich when eating at a 5-star restaurant?
:lmao:
:thumbup:

--SONET

[jerrykdc]

Click the Quick Reply icon in any post above to activate quick reply!

[Mig29]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: steptronic on an M3? Isn't that kind of like ordering a boloney sandwhich when eating at a 5-star restaurant?

well put