Brake Pad Advice

[BradATL]

Any recommendations for track day/drivers schools pads for an E36 M3? Rotors and calipers are stock. It would be ideal for me to find a pad that could double as a track pad and a daily driver pad, but if this compromise is substandard, then I'm willing to go with different pads for street and track.

So far, I'm looking at EBC Greens and Reds, and also Hawk HPS and HP Plus.

[nate]

In my opinion, you will get best results if you have a set only for track and one only for the street.

Though, many here like the Carbotech Panther Plus for both. It is loud on the street though...

[Gary@Tirerack]

Agree, separate pads are ideal. However, if by 'track' you mean autocross or some non-competitve road racing, you could get away with EBC Redstuff or Hawk HPS. I'm personally a big fan of the Hawk HPS, which I run on my 95M3 that sees very aggressive street braking and the occasional 'fun' road race course day. If you're willing to trade off some streetablity check out the Hawk HP+. I feel the greenstuff is not a great pad to use for aggressive street or track driving from my experience.

More info and pricing on our site at :
http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AB2&url=/brakes/index.jsp

[Raffi]

If you're just starting out at driver's schools, then you could find a good street/track combo pad. I would personally recommend the Porterfield R-4S, which wears out VERY well and is very easy on rotors.

If you go with separate pads for street/track, I would still recommend the R-4S for the street, and the Hawk Blues for the track. Just make sure to use generous amounts of brake silencer goo on the backing plates to get rid of brake squeaking.

I have heard some great stuff about the Carbotech Panther Plus pads from both THE HACK and in_d_haus. Check with them.

[The HACK]

Street/Track compounds are all about compromises. Depends on what you want to give up.

The CarboTech Panther Pluses that I run is an EXCELLENT track/street combo. Excellent initial bite, little to no fade, works well in a very wide temperature range (270 degree to 1200 I believe), friendly on the rotors and excellent for drivers from beginner (me) to advanced drivers ('haus). That being said, you have to give up noise (they're squeaky), dust (they're about as dusty as OEM pads), and wear (they're only good for about 2 schools, or one year of use). They're so squeaky I've had people look over at stop lights and tell me I need new brakes.

If you need to put emphasis on quietness and comfort, I'd suggest sticking with OEM Jurid pads. However if you're already out-driving those Jurids, then it's probably BETTER if you go with 2 sets, one for track and one for street. If you're like me and don't care that people think your brakes are about to fail, go ahead and get yourself a set of CarboTech Panther Pluses or Panther XPs.:thumbup:

[MikeW]

Are the Redstuff streetable? I've heard bad things about their cold braking ability. Do they need to heat up to give acceptable friction?

Originally posted by Gary@Tirerack
Agree, separate pads are ideal. However, if by 'track' you mean autocross or some non-competitve road racing, you could get away with EBC Redstuff or Hawk HPS. I'm personally a big fan of the Hawk HPS, which I run on my 95M3 that sees very aggressive street braking and the occasional 'fun' road race course day. If you're willing to trade off some streetablity check out the Hawk HP+. I feel the greenstuff is not a great pad to use for aggressive street or track driving from my experience.

More info and pricing on our site at :
http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AB2&url=/brakes/index.jsp

[Gary@Tirerack]

Although the Redstuff is streetable, they will take a few hard stops to heat up. If this is a concern, I still recommend the Hawk HPS pads!

[Akakubi]

I will still say Axxis Ultimates for street/track use. They are just that much better than HPS or even HP+ for noise, fade and dust. Check out some info on the pads from the manufacturer's data as well as Cobalt Friction (I wish Cobalt made our fitments, they are even better than Axxis):

HP+ as per Hawk:
High Performance Street material PLUS race worthy.
Optimal temp. range: Ambient to 800°F
Track Surface: Asphalt and Dirt
All Dirt applications, Autocross, Solo 1 & 2, Driving Schools

Axxis Ultimates:
Axxis Ultimate Brake Pads. These are High Performance street pads. Roughly 20% more grip than OEM, but with no extra dusting or squeal. These are an excellent OEM replacement pad, for heavy street use and light track duty.
Specs:
Coefficient of Friction (Mu) : 0.46
Optimal Operating Range : 100°F-900°F
Critical Fade Temp : 1022°F
Carbon-Kevlar

RS4:
Operating temperature is 1100°F max
Friction .4
Carbon-Kevlar

[The HACK]

Those are some impressive stats Akakubi, thanks for posting them.

Just as a comparison, I dug up CarboTech's specs for the Panther Plus and Panther XP...

Panther Plus:
Operating Range: 150f to 1250f
Friction: .54-.56

Panther XP:
Operating Range: 250f to 1350f
Friction: .60

I also remember some of the highest CFriction pads ranges from .60-.64. Ferodo TRACK only compound I believe.

[Akakubi]

Cobalts are insane. Their Spec Miata pads are really loved by the racers. And IT-R Spec B is a heavy-duty pad for hardcore racing, including BMW E36. But the fitments for those pads are very limited. They do make Wilwood, Brembo and StopTech caliper fitments, but not much for our BMW OEM Ate's.

I am bugging them to make a GT-Street pad (a bit better than Axxis on every level, but with the same low noise, dust, etc) for more BMW's... :angel:

Carbotechs are also very impressive. But I think they are a bit too extreme for the street use. :) For the track though, they are definitely a pad to consider.

:thumbup:

[Pinecone]

My 2 cents.

If you are just getting started in tracking, just use what you have.

If you are getting fast and moving up in run groups, you need track only pads.

If you need new street pads and may get started in tracking, there are several choices.

Axxis Ultimates are very good.

EBC has given some people some BIG problems.

Porterfield R4S pads are also very good street pads that can be tracked.

Hawks are good, but the better ones for track use tend to dust a good bit.


For track pads, there are LOTS of opinions. On my E46 M3 I run Turner Cool Willy pads. I can drive them to/from the track, they stop OK when stone cold. The do dust too much to run them all the time. And even with the speed and weight of the E46 M3 not a bit of fade at the Glen.

But all the other suggestions will work well also.

[MikeW]

Do the Axxis Ultimates dust less than stock? Akakubi's post said they dust no more than stock, but the stock dust heavily.

[Akakubi]

Do the Axxis Ultimates dust less than stock? Akakubi's post said they dust no more than stock, but the stock dust heavily.

They actually dust less than stock, but not considerably. The dust also comes off a lot easier than OEM. :dunno:

[SteveT]

Does anyone have experience with Performance Friction Pads?

[nate]

Does anyone have experience with Performance Friction Pads?
:hi:

[SteveT]

:hi:

Can you expand on that?

[nate]

Can you expand on that?

I thought they were very good.

No fade in 100F+ ambient temperatures. Incredible bite.

Expensive though :(

[SteveT]

I thought they were very good.

No fade in 100F+ ambient temperatures. Incredible bite.

Expensive though :(

Thanks, Nate.

I've been talking to them about a set of slotted rotors (or perhaps dimpled) and their pads. I know it won't be cheap, but it won't be as expensive as Brembos. They are about to come out with a new rotor and are checking when it will be available.