Info on M3's?

[M3_413]

I would like to know the differences between
the E30, E36 and E46. Such as statistics, what
the E30 etc stands for....sorry for my ignorance.
If anyone has a site with some good info.....Thanx
:dunno:

[tgravo2]

E30, E36, etc is just the "naming" they give for the chassis the car is built on

[SpaceMonkey]

You can just think of it this way: the lower the number, the better M3 it is. ;)

[M3_413]

Cool, thanx. I'm going to do a search on :google:
and study study study.

[TD]

E30 = Original M3 1987-1991 4 cyl engine street-legal racecar
E36 = 1995-1999 Inline 6 cyl engine - US got detuned version, but, other than HP, it's the same as the Euro version - incredible blend of performance and civility
E46 = 2001+ Same engine as Euro version (333HP) - Softer and more luxurious - VERY high tech

They are three VERY different cars and each a stellar performer in their own right. Purists declare that there was only ONE M3, the original.

[M3_413]

Yesterday my dad and I saw a 1991 E30 M3
while we were putting our boat in the water.
I got to talk to the lucky owner. I have decided
that I am going to save my money for a while
and drive my dad's truck so that I'll be able to
buy an E30 M3. I think that it'll be well worth
the wait. It is such a beautiful car and looks so
bad a**. I am trying to learn as much as possible
about it. I can't even explain it :yikes: :yikes:

[Bruce]

Yesterday my dad and I saw a 1991 E30 M3
while we were putting our boat in the water.
I got to talk to the lucky owner. I have decided
that I am going to save my money for a while
and drive my dad's truck so that I'll be able to
buy an E30 M3. I think that it'll be well worth
the wait. It is such a beautiful car and looks so
bad a**. I am trying to learn as much as possible
about it. I can't even explain it :yikes: :yikes:

If you have to save up to buy an E30 M3...don't buy an E30 M3. Not that they are that expensive, however the upkeep on one could kill you. Oh and if you blow an engine figure at least $5k to rebuild (and that is doing all the work yourself)- to pay to a get a good rebuild you are talking $7-10k minimum.

It really helps to be able to do the wrenching yourself on an E30. I only rarely take mine to a shop (only for the stuff where you need specialized equipment).

E30s are not all that expensive (10-15k). But be aware of the dogs. Make sure to get a prepurchase inspection done to try to avoid a lot of headaches down the road.

Also...the E30 doesn't make a very good daily driver in stop and go traffic...it can be done though as some people do.

Bruce
95 M3 (daily workhorse)
89 M3 2.5 (track car)

[M3_413]

I love in the country kinda in western MA
lots of twisties not a lot of traffic. So they
have lots of problems or :dunno: Thanks for
the advice. I (lots of friends) have a garage with lots of
tools and the know how so...what would i buy instead?

[Fuzzypuppy]

E30 = Original M3 1987-1991 4 cyl engine street-legal racecar
E36 = 1995-1999 Inline 6 cyl engine - US got detuned version, but, other than HP, it's the same as the Euro version - incredible blend of performance and civility
E46 = 2001+ Same engine as Euro version (333HP) - Softer and more luxurious - VERY high tech

They are three VERY different cars and each a stellar performer in their own right. Purists declare that there was only ONE M3, the original.

Hehehe do I ever hear you, TD...

Call me a heathen. I fell in love with the E30s when they came out, but I'd never want to own one.

Loved the E36 in a way that defied words, but wouldn't trade my E46 to go back, no way. The new powerplant is magnificent.(Although any 330er, even the ZHPers, who thinks he's got an E36 M3 is kidding himself - and I have a 330).

Of course, it's similar to the endless Porsche debates. I'm one of those people that thinks you be crazy to take a 993 over my beautiful 996 C4S... absolutely nuts.

I have no problem with progress ;)

[Pinecone]

I would like to know the differences between
the E30, E36 and E46. Such as statistics, what
the E30 etc stands for....sorry for my ignorance.
If anyone has a site with some good info.....Thanx
:dunno:

This site has good info.

E numbers are chassis development numbers. Each time they develop a new car, it gets a new E number. So the higher the number, the later they did the development. From 1976 - 1983 the 3 series were E21 chassis, 1984 - 1991 the 3 series is an E30 chassis. 1991 - 1999 was the E36, 1999 - current are E46 cars.

The M3 is a modified 3 series.

The E30 M3 was the original boy racer. About 2 body panels are the same as the standard cars. The engine is based on the engine used in the M1 and M6 and turbo Formula 1 engines. The suspension pickup points are different from the standard car. The car is basically designed to allow certain mods on race cars running under rules that require that a mod be sold on X number of cars to be legal for racing. This is called homologation, and cars built for this purpose are homlogation specials. All manufacturers who race do this every so often. 2.3L 4 cylinder making 194 (I thik that is right, all of this is from memory) HP in US trim, later Euro models upped to 2.5L and up to ~240 HP

The E36 M3 was sort of a wierd duck as BMW didn't need a homologation special, but the idea was so successfull they followed on with the idea. The E36 M3s are fairly similar to the normal 3 series. It is more of a tuning difference, stiffer springs, stiffer shocks, lower ride height, etc, etc. Basically the same things you would do yourself to make a car perform better. But still a whole lot more car than a normal 3 series.

There were two engines in the E36 M3, the Eruo engine and the US spec engine. The US spec engine makes less HP, but both cars perform the same up to about 100 MPH, then the Euro starts to walk away from the US spec cars. BMW originally wan't going to sell the M3 in the US market, but the fans protested so long and hard that they relented. However the cost of the Euro engine and emissions certification would have pushed the car over $40K, which would have been a VERY hard sell in 1995. So they developed the US spec engine, which keep the price of the car more reasonable, and for US street driving made no difference in the performance.

The 1995 cars had a 3.0L engine, 1996 - 1999 a 3.2L engine. They make the same HP. The US engine made 240 HP the Euro 3.2L engine 321, but due to gearing and torque peaks points, they are about even to 100 MPH.

In 1995 they made a limited number of special Light Weight M3s, normally indicated as a E36 M3 LTW. These had a lot of luxury stuff removed, aluminum doors, a X brace to stiffen the chassis. And a few other things. Only color was white, with a Motorsports flag decal on the left front and right rear corners.

The E46 M3 debuted in the spring of 2001. In many ways it is more like the E30 in that most of the body panels are not the same as the normal 3 series, much of the running gear to totally different. The engine is designed and built to be the same for Euro and US markets. Lots of performance, but also a lot of luxury. In fact so much performance they don't feel that impressive on the street, until you realize that you just took that freeway off ramp at close to 100 MPH. :)

E46 M3 has a 3.2L engine (but actually a different displacement than the E36 engine) that makes 333 HP in the US, 343 Euro (except due to different measuring standards the actual HP difference is about 5 HP) due to different locations for the catalytic converters to meet US cold start standards. 0 - 60 is about 4.6- 4.7 seconds.

A true multi purpose machine. I have done over 600 miles in a single day and felt like driving more, and I have done 145 MPH entering the bus stop chicane at Watkins Glen, on street tires. :)

Each M3 had it strong points and its weak points. Overall each generation has gotten faster and faster, and more luxurious also. Each one has its own character, and each one is a joy to drive. You can't go wrong with any generation M3, but truly you need one of each. :)

[M3_413]

:cry: That was beautiful lol
Thanx a lot for the info! I
really think that its going to be
worth the wait (saving up) in order
to get one! Any more info would
be cool. :thumbup:

[patton03m3]

:cry: That was beautiful lol
Thanx a lot for the info! I
really think that its going to be
worth the wait (saving up) in order
to get one! Any more info would
be cool. :thumbup:

Prolly not complete, but:

BMW Vehicle codes, Model numbers:
http://www.bmwworld.com/repairs/codes/models.htm

then click:
"More" for Model "E" codes ("E"ntwicklung == Development/Evolution)

then click
"More" for Engine codes

HTH.

[M3_413]

Thats a good site, thanks.

[jaramill]

Here's a great site for E36 M3s that has a nice Adobe Acrobat PDF file chock full of info.

Eurospeed.org (http://www.eurospeed.org)

Gio

[Jetfire]

Great post, Pinecone. Your subjective observations are also more or less in line with my own, as well as TD's.

I would be happy and proud to own any of the three M3s that have been made to date. The E46 is the luxury GT of the bunch, although it is both scary fast and smooth fast and can be made quite competitive with a major diet and a few other things. They're great performance cars that also make great daily drivers. The engine is magnificent -- don't let the manufacturing issues from the 10/01 model run let you down.

The E36 -- particularly the U.S. version -- is a great blend of performance and tractability. The car is fast and feels great in corners, yet is relatively docile in traffic. At this moment, it is also the cheapest to own overall. Due to the engine in the U.S. versions, I would stop short of calling it an exotic. I owned a '99 M3 and loved it, and every time I see it (sold it to someone I know) I ask myself why I sold it.

I answer my own question when I look at my '88 M3. :D The E30 M3 is a horrible daily driver. I would never spend $12k - $15k on a 16-year-old car whose alternator won't sufficiently charge the battery at idle if I plan to use it in day-to-day commuting. The four-banger is an AWESOME engine but it's noisy, very buzzy, and can be a little finicky. It's also not cheap to maintain, and you'd better maintain it if you want it to last. But once you take the engine past 4000 rpm and set yourself on a nice on-ramp, all of the quirks disappear and you just start to smile. It is one of the most fun-to-drive cars I've ever had the pleasure of operating...and once I drove one, I had to have one. Lucky me, I picked one with a bad crank. :cry: 150 miles into ownership I am knee-deep in an engine rebuild. Pinecone's estimate for a rebuild is more or less on the money. Still, I don't regret my decision at all. And once she's back together, I'm never going to look back.

That said, I'd love to have an E46 M3 parked next to it. What a combination! :D

[JST]

Concur with everything said so far.

Here is another excellent resource:

http://www.bmwmregistry.com

[M3_413]

Thanx a lot guys. This is why I come to Bimmerfest.com

[Pinecone]

Great post, Pinecone. Your subjective observations are also more or less in line with my own, as well as TD's.

I would be happy and proud to own any of the three M3s that have been made to date. The E46 is the luxury GT of the bunch, although it is both scary fast and smooth fast and can be made quite competitive with a major diet and a few other things. They're great performance cars that also make great daily drivers. The engine is magnificent -- don't let the manufacturing issues from the 10/01 model run let you down.

The E36 -- particularly the U.S. version -- is a great blend of performance and tractability. The car is fast and feels great in corners, yet is relatively docile in traffic. At this moment, it is also the cheapest to own overall. Due to the engine in the U.S. versions, I would stop short of calling it an exotic. I owned a '99 M3 and loved it, and every time I see it (sold it to someone I know) I ask myself why I sold it.

I answer my own question when I look at my '88 M3. :D The E30 M3 is a horrible daily driver. I would never spend $12k - $15k on a 16-year-old car whose alternator won't sufficiently charge the battery at idle if I plan to use it in day-to-day commuting. The four-banger is an AWESOME engine but it's noisy, very buzzy, and can be a little finicky. It's also not cheap to maintain, and you'd better maintain it if you want it to last. But once you take the engine past 4000 rpm and set yourself on a nice on-ramp, all of the quirks disappear and you just start to smile. It is one of the most fun-to-drive cars I've ever had the pleasure of operating...and once I drove one, I had to have one. Lucky me, I picked one with a bad crank. :cry: 150 miles into ownership I am knee-deep in an engine rebuild. Pinecone's estimate for a rebuild is more or less on the money. Still, I don't regret my decision at all. And once she's back together, I'm never going to look back.

That said, I'd love to have an E46 M3 parked next to it. What a combination! :D

Agreed, they are all great. My firend has a '95 E36 M3 and everytime I ride in it, I am amazed at how nice it is, and how quick it is for an 8 year old car.

I would LOVE to add an E30 M3 to the garage, and it WILL happen.

Bummer on your E30, I have been following the story. But think of how nice it will be when you get done. :)

[Jetfire]

Agreed, they are all great. My firend has a '95 E36 M3 and everytime I ride in it, I am amazed at how nice it is, and how quick it is for an 8 year old car.

I would LOVE to add an E30 M3 to the garage, and it WILL happen.

Bummer on your E30, I have been following the story. But think of how nice it will be when you get done. :)

:thumbup: I'm getting it there. Slowly but surely.

[M3_413]

:thumbup: I'm getting it there. Slowly but surely.
How you doing on it now?

[Jetfire]

How you doing on it now?
Funny you should ask. I'm going to post a quick update on it tonight.

[fatboym]

Another Good source of information:
www.bimmerforums.com