So, how hard is it to learn...

[LuvThatSam]

how to ride these things? :eeps:

And why in California is it more expensive to taking biking school after the age 21? 18-21 is like $150, and for 21 and older its 250? :confused:

[JonM]

how to ride these things? :eeps:

And why in California is it more expensive to taking biking school after the age 21? 18-21 is like $150, and for 21 and older its 250? :confused:

It is easy to learn. Hard to master. http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/yoda2.gif

The state-MSF class is the way to start. I would guess that California subsidizes the cost of the class for all riders, but more so for the high-risk 18-21 age group.

[KrisL]

Yep.. MSF is a good start and you'll know at the end of it whether riding is right for you.

Beyond that, buy a small bike and make friends with safe riders that don't mind taking you under their wing for awhile.

[biglovemp]

It is easy to learn. Hard to master. http://www.millan.net/minimations/smileys/yoda2.gif

The state-MSF class is the way to start. I would guess that California subsidizes the cost of the class for all riders, but more so for the high-risk 18-21 age group.

Very good point. Its VERY easy to learn. But no matter how many years you have under your belt, something could always go wrong and you will never master it to that point.

Take the MSF course. They have courses that are also for experienced riders. The more practice and time you spend riding the better.

I paid $350 for the MSF weekend course here in NY and at the end of the course i got my license.:thumbup: It also served as a point reduction/ discount.:thumbup::thumbup:

[MMMM_ERT]

And why in California is it more expensive to taking biking school after the age 21? 18-21 is like $150, and for 21 and older its 250? :confused:

People make more money after 21... :rofl:

[KrisL]

Very good point. Its VERY easy to learn.

I'd even disagree on this. It's amazing how much dexterity it takes (left hand clutch, right hand front brake & throttle, left foot shifting, right foot rear brake) and now much different it is from doing anything else. It's easy to learn to ride in a straight line....I'm probably still faster on mountain roads in my car, and I've got 8 years of mountain road motorcycle riding under my belt. Probably always will be. Riding, of course, provides a better experience when doing so, however.

I remember it being a big milestone when I could actually take a mountain road corner marked at 35mph *at* 35mph! I think it took 4-5 weeks to get to that point. It can get frustrating at first.

[jvr826]

It's definitely not like learning to operate a car. I say operate because most people don't really know how to drive a car, they know how to operate it at best.

As Kris said, get with some PATIENT experienced people and ride with them. You can see how they set up for a particular corner and learn from them. They need to realize you're green and dial it back to keep you safe too. This is where the patience comes in. You can't learn from them if they're a half mile ahead of you. Riding with two people is best, one behind, one in front. The one in back can observe and critique while the one up front can lead you thru.

Anyone can ride a bike straight, but that's about as rewarding as driving in your car on I5 for 4 hours at the speed limit. It is the corner where the reward is.

The same key principles of good driving technique translate to good riding technique, and vice versa. Look ahead, way ahead. Be smooth on the brake and throttle and steering. Always brake in a straight line. Pay attention to 360 degrees around you for excellent situational awareness. Getting "red mist" is very easy when riding in traffic. You will get fixated on the car in front of you rather than looking thru it and farther ahead. You need eyes at every angle and this is what is tiresome in the beginning.

Leaning into corners is the hardest adjustment for new riders I think. You can't turn without leaning and the faster you go, the more you need to lean. Figuring out just how much to lean is also important. It's a weird feeling until you trust the bike and yourself. At slow speeds it's not a biggie to adjust your line mid-corner, but when you're going faster you want to setup for it and hold your line thru. This is where experience will improve your rides. You can only learn by lots of practice!

MSF Course before u buy something. You may find that it's not for you, but hopefully you'll find that you're a natural.

@Kris and the dexterity thing. When I started riding I could never remember to clutch in for downshifts as I approached a stop or for a corner. Why? Cuz after driving a manual car forever, your natural instinct is to push your left foot down. Well, that's where the shifter is, so now you find yourself with an abrupt downshift.

Unlike cars, the controls on bikes are not standardized for turn signals, lights, horn kinda stuff. On Harley's the left signal has one button on the left, right on the right, and they self cancel. On other brand bikes that I've ridden, there's one switch on the left grip that does 2-3 things, left/right/cancel. It's easy to forget to cancel the turn signal, which is sending the wrong signal to cars around you.

[KrisL]

As Kris said, get with some PATIENT experienced people and ride with them.

You know Kyle Breton, right? Our Membership Chair?

When you called me on Sunday we were out riding - he just got his first bike, a Ninja 250, and I was leading him slowly up Palomares Rd in the East Bay :thumbup:.

[LuvThatSam]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the input.

I'm still deciding whether to do this or not. Either way, I'll end up on a bike no matter what -- its just a matter of deciding which one.

My alternative is getting a mountain or road bike and do like I was doing about 6 months ago which was commuting to train station from my apartment, which is less than a mile, then taking 2 trains to Universal and biking it to work which is about 3-4 miles. The only problem I have is that I work the swing shift, and the last train I need to take stops running at 2330, which is around the time I get off. The first train runs pretty much all night long except there is only 2 of them on the rails. One going one way, and the other going the other way. So assuming I get out at 2330, I won't get to the train station until 0015, if I'm lucky? Train comes around 0035-0045, and it takes about 40 minutes to get to the last stop. So by then its 0110-0115, and still need to ride a train another 5 miles, or bike it in the ghetto.

To much of a pain in the ass.

My next alternative is the motorcycle. But after adding the cost of the actual bike, plus gear, training fees, insurance, it will be pretty pricey. So I'm stuck in between a rock and hard place.:(

[KrisL]

My next alternative is the motorcycle. But after adding the cost of the actual bike, plus gear, training fees, insurance, it will be pretty pricey. So I'm stuck in between a rock and hard place.:(

A beater car is cheaper and safer than a bike, no doubt. You generally get better gas mileage on a bike, but the TCO would take many years to get close to that of a beater car all things considered.

[biglovemp]

I'd even disagree on this. It's amazing how much dexterity it takes (left hand clutch, right hand front brake & throttle, left foot shifting, right foot rear brake) and now much different it is from doing anything else. It's easy to learn to ride in a straight line....I'm probably still faster on mountain roads in my car, and I've got 8 years of mountain road motorcycle riding under my belt. Probably always will be. Riding, of course, provides a better experience when doing so, however.

I remember it being a big milestone when I could actually take a mountain road corner marked at 35mph *at* 35mph! I think it took 4-5 weeks to get to that point. It can get frustrating at first.

I somewhat agree with you on this. With me, it kind of just came to me. I never really had a problem with dexterity.

And you are 100% about the whole riding in a straight line thing. Just about anyone could do that. I remember when i first started riding it scared the living crap out of me everytime i was going to approach a twisty... That is definitely where the challenge starts.

[jvr826]

So, I missed the intended purpose of this bike, commuting, at night, thru the ghetto. Gas is cheap again, personal safety is a high priority, I'd find a cheap reliable commuter car instead.

You can probably spend $1000-2000 and get something that will work for this purpose.

[E36 Phantom]

It does sound like a beater car might be more cost effective, and riding late at night after a long day at work may not be the funnest thing, either.

But, the neat thing about a bike is it can serve as a cheap commute vehicle and a fun weekend toy. :D

Really, it's not hard to learn to operate at all. Mastering it around corners is not the same thing, and I'm still a complete noob there (but it's still fun), and I'm probably faster on most twisty roads in my car.

The reason the MSF course is cheaper is because it's REQUIRED for people under 21 to get their licenses. People over 21 can get their permit, ride around, and then take an on-bike test at DMV. People under 21 can't do that, so the state has a regulation that caps the cost for the required group. It's a great introduction to riding in a safe environment, though, and you likely get insurance discounts, so it's worth doing IMO. Oh, and taking the MSF course at any age exempts you from the DMV on-bike riding test, which they say is much harder.

[jvr826]

Oh, and taking the MSF course at any age exempts you from the DMV on-bike riding test, which they say is much harder.

And, just like the road test in a car, it's f'n stupid. The hardest part is maneuvering your bike around a penoir shaped marking on the parking lot. You need to keep your tires between two painted lines, go around the circular part, then do it in the opposite direction. All of this is a very slow operation and has nothing to do with vehicle control on the street.

You show you know hand signals, which BTW i highly recommend using all the time, and then you ride down the street and shift into 2nd gear. Turn around and go back to the parking lot. There, now you're a licensed motorcycle rider. Fend for yourself and good luck!

I took mine on a Harley 1200 Sportster and it was incredibly difficult to maneuver around the penoir. A 250 Ninja would be much easier.

Avoiding this waste of time is worth the MSF entry price.

[KrisL]

I took mine on a Harley 1200 Sportster and it was incredibly difficult to maneuver around the penoir. A 250 Ninja would be much easier.

Avoiding this waste of time is worth the MSF entry price.

I passed it on my 97 VFR, which was very difficult as well - big sport-y bikes don't like to turn slow!

[jvr826]

I passed it on my 97 VFR, which was very difficult as well - big sport-y bikes don't like to turn slow!

How did you practice? I got some chalk and drew out the penoir to scale at the 49'ers practice site parking lot and rode around it for an entire afternoon the day before my test.

[KrisL]

How did you practice? I got some chalk and drew out the penoir to scale at the 49'ers practice site parking lot and rode around it for an entire afternoon the day before my test.

I didn't, really. I went to the DMV when it was closed once and went around a few times. Just showed up after about 6 weeks of riding on my permit and managed to pass :).

I took MSF to help me regain my confidence *after* I crashed 7 months later.

[jvr826]

I took MSF to help me regain my confidence *after* I crashed 7 months later.

The first time, I went on a 7000 mile road trip, that helped. :D

I'm still working on it after the 2nd time, but I'd say I'm 90% now. Road trip!

[LuvThatSam]

So, I missed the intended purpose of this bike, commuting, at night, thru the ghetto. Gas is cheap again, personal safety is a high priority, I'd find a cheap reliable commuter car instead.

You can probably spend $1000-2000 and get something that will work for this purpose.

Having a second car is not an option at this point. I have a reliable car already, but we are getting rid of it. Tough times. I was hoping the motorcycle would be the cheaper alternative. I found a couple of Ninja 250's for about $1200-1500. But with the cost of equipment and traning, it'll add up to too much.

So I'm gonna drink my can of suck it up and buy a mountain bike and just do the not so desirable commute.

[biglovemp]

Having a second car is not an option at this point. I have a reliable car already, but we are getting rid of it. Tough times. I was hoping the motorcycle would be the cheaper alternative. I found a couple of Ninja 250's for about $1200-1500. But with the cost of equipment and traning, it'll add up to too much.

So I'm gonna drink my can of suck it up and buy a mountain bike and just do the not so desirable commute.

Keep looking and you will be able to find a 250 for about 1k. Another 300 for the course and another 300-500 on a helmet and gear (online you could find some great deals)

Bikes require very little maintenance and are very economical.

Dont give up just yet.:thumbup:

[LuvThatSam]

Keep looking and you will be able to find a 250 for about 1k. Another 300 for the course and another 300-500 on a helmet and gear (online you could find some great deals)

Bikes require very little maintenance and are very economical.

Dont give up just yet.:thumbup:

Thanks!

[E36 Phantom]

And, just like the road test in a car, it's f'n stupid.
Don't even get me started on the car road test.........I wanted to hurt whoever designed the test after I took it. I can't believe they actually give you a license after that joke of a test. No wonder we have the idiots we have on the roads today! :mad:
Having a second car is not an option at this point. I have a reliable car already, but we are getting rid of it. Tough times. I was hoping the motorcycle would be the cheaper alternative. I found a couple of Ninja 250's for about $1200-1500. But with the cost of equipment and traning, it'll add up to too much.

If money says no way, I understand, but don't be afraid to look at older bikes too. FWIW, I picked up an 82 Kawasaki KZ750 w/ 11,000 miles for all of $575 for my first bike. In pretty decent cosmetic shape, started first time every time, never gave me any trouble. For a short commute, don't tell Kris, but I wear jeans and a heavy leather jacket with gloves. You really don't NEED a full suit for a commute - but you do need to be hyper-aware and plan for the worst from every driver. I would like a full suit, but I'd be kidding myself to think that I'd suit up for my short rides anyway.

Anyway, it doesn't have to be prohibitively expensive. You would enjoy the torque on an older, bigger engined bike anyway. :dunno: Just a thought.

[Ryan...]

If money says no way, I understand, but don't be afraid to look at older bikes too. FWIW, I picked up an 82 Kawasaki KZ750 w/ 11,000 miles for all of $575 for my first bike.

I was browsing Craigslist yesterday and found a 95 Ninja 250 for $400, it needed a new rear tire and the carbs needed cleaning. My brother went to check it out and he'll probably pick it up this week. Sure it has over 40K miles, but for $400?!? You can pick up a brand new tire online for $120, and the carbs are a DIY job if you want to get your hands a little dirty. Now he'll be getting somewhere around 50 mpgs for under $600...

[JonM]

I was browsing Craigslist yesterday and found a 95 Ninja 250 for $400, it needed a new rear tire and the carbs needed cleaning. My brother went to check it out and he'll probably pick it up this week. Sure it has over 40K miles, but for $400?!? You can pick up a brand new tire online for $120, and the carbs are a DIY job if you want to get your hands a little dirty. Now he'll be getting somewhere around 50 mpgs for under $600...

For $400 + parts and fixes, when he is done with it he can set it on fire and drink a PBR while he watches it burn. The 250 is a great starter bike, but he'll probably get bored of it quickly. [which is fine at that price!!]

[biglovemp]

The 250 is a great starter bike, but he'll probably get bored of it quickly. [which is fine at that price!!]
+100000000000

For $400 i would go for it as a starter bike.

LTS, that is what you should be looking for!:thumbup:

[Melissa]

How hard is it?

"If Melissa can do it, I can do it."

;)

[Ryan...]

For $400 + parts and fixes, when he is done with it he can set it on fire and drink a PBR while he watches it burn. The 250 is a great starter bike, but he'll probably get bored of it quickly. [which is fine at that price!!]

He'll use it for traveling to and from his job, he's not big into high speeds so it'll be fine. He's obsessed with saving money so it's the perfect bike for him! I'll probably use it to teach my girlfriend too..

[KrisL]

I still vote for a beater car for LTS. With two little ones, it's just not worth the risk, especially riding daily at night. What happens if you break a leg like I did?

[LuvThatSam]

I still vote for a beater car for LTS. With two little ones, it's just not worth the risk, especially riding daily at night. What happens if you break a leg like I did?

Thanks Kris.

Yea, we came to the conclusion of this not being the best time. We're gonna go check this out (http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/1171297679.html) in the morning. :(

At least its a 5 speed 4 banger. This is the one we got rid of this week. Automatic.:thumbdwn:


http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/data/3153/medium/CivicBody3.jpg

[E36 Phantom]

We're gonna go check this out (http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/1171297679.html) in the morning.

SERIOUS BUYERS ONLY WITH CASH!!! NO CHECKS, MONEY ORDERS OR MONOPOLY MONEY!!

:lmao:

:bustingup

[3LOU5]

how to ride these things? :eeps:

And why in California is it more expensive to taking biking school after the age 21? 18-21 is like $150, and for 21 and older its 250? :confused:

Not that difficult really. If you can ride a bicycle and know the concept of driving a manual car (i.e. using the clutch correctly, being in the right gear at a given speed, etc.), you pretty much have the basics. :thumbup:

However, given your location (L.A., correct?), I would highly discourage you from riding, but that's of course my humble opinion.

(BTW, ditto on the MSF course).

[#5880]

started in 5th grade,

just drive very defensively. Stay away from every car, b1tches on cellphones in SUVs ARE TRYING TO KILL YOU

[3beemers]

A beater car is cheaper and safer than a bike, no doubt. You generally get better gas mileage on a bike, but the TCO would take many years to get close to that of a beater car all things considered.

I am not quite sure about that KrisL. Except for my 6 months old Honda Ridgeline, all my cars and Nissan Titan truck were ALL rear-ended. I have been riding bikes for about 40 years and never (knock on wood) been involved in any accident. I use my K1200S in the crazy L.A. traffic splitting lanes cuts my gas and time by half. So far 4 wheelers have been kind to me.

[KrisL]

I am not quite sure about that KrisL. Except for my 6 months old Honda Ridgeline, all my cars and Nissan Titan truck were ALL rear-ended. I have been riding bikes for about 40 years and never (knock on wood) been involved in any accident. I use my K1200S in the crazy L.A. traffic splitting lanes cuts my gas and time by half. So far 4 wheelers have been kind to me.

Why is that, do you suppose? Perhaps because a) you're more aware on the bike and b) you split lanes in situations where most rear ends occur. I'm not talking about accident avoidance here, I'm talking about safety. I'd rather get rear ended in a car than on a bike.

Also, for what it's worth, I've never been rear ended in my 14 years of driving.

[3beemers]

He'll use it for traveling to and from his job, he's not big into high speeds so it'll be fine. He's obsessed with saving money so it's the perfect bike for him! I'll probably use it to teach my girlfriend too..

Just my opinion on this: I do not ride the bike 08 K1200S to save money and time. Saving money and time (pass many 4 wheelers on diamond lane) comes in the form of a bonus on top of the fact that I do not have to wait for the weekend to have fun. I can only pity 4 wheelers sitting in endless L.A. freeway traffic especially Friday afternoons. There were few instances driving my car when the 210 Freeway was closed due to a big accident and I nearly parked my car to walk the last 2 miles. I was thinking I could come back for the car late at night. Safety: the biggest safety factor on motorcycles in California is splitting lanes. To increase that safety factor, I could also use wider streets for slower ride but the biggest plus is that I am always in front of cars at the stop lights. Here's my opinion on people who wanted to start to ride bikes to save money: It takes a lot of experience to really ride safe. I would suggest using streets until the balancing act is perfected. I've seen many 50cc scooters in the area and cars seems to give them the space and respect.

[3beemers]

Why is that, do you suppose? Perhaps because a) you're more aware on the bike and b) you split lanes in situations where most rear ends occur. I'm not talking about accident avoidance here, I'm talking about safety. I'd rather get rear ended in a car than on a bike.

Also, for what it's worth, I've never been rear ended in my 14 years of driving.

When I ride, most of the time like in traffic lights, I always end up in between lanes/cars. There was this Sheriff (motorcycle cop) who was killed not too long ago at a stop light. His mistake (in my opinion and based on my experience) is stopping behind a car. He was killed by a drunk driver. When my Red Nissan titan was rear ended, the driver said he did not notice I stopped at the light (he was on his cell phone). When my 330i was rear ended at a street light, the MBenz driver said he saw the green light but did not see my car behind a pickup truck trying to re-start his engine. When my Nissan Sentra was going to be rear-ended, I saw this guy on an old beat up car coming fast and tried to stop. I moved my car forward to give him more space to stop, still hit my car. In all these instances, I did not have any choice but to brace for the impact. Motorcycles do not have bumpers like cars. The rider and the motorcycle is the BUMPER. So to remedy that I use other vehicles to protect me from being rear ended. I also use other cars as my front bumpers - meaning that: if I am riding two way roads I make sure that there is a car (not a truck) in front of me, because he is my bumper. Why car? Because I can see many things over his car's roof. Same thing on freeways I make sure that I am following a driver who in my opinion would contribute to my safe riding. At stop lights I learned to look left and right even if I have green light - you never know when someone would run the red light and I do not want to be RIGHT, but Dead. There are helmets available that would allow me to listen to music or use cell phone. I definitely would not do such a thing. Riding motorcycles calls for the utmost concentration as compared to a car. In my car or pick up truck, I sometimes turn the radio off to concentrate on driving particularly on high speed open freeways.

I fly single engine planes and one time when I was beginning to learn to fly. The door on my side opened as I was taking off. My immediate reaction is just pull the darn door which I did. My instructor told me to land, check everything then take off again. From then on, safety became my number one concern, that's for me and those around me regardless of what I drive, ride or fly.

I'm glad you've never been rear-ended in your 14 years of driving. I sure hate being rear ended regardless because it is a total waste of my time.

For those who rides or interested in riding, the most important portion of this novel is the "BUMPER" (front and rear).

Regards

[cwsqbm]

I remember it being a big milestone when I could actually take a mountain road corner marked at 35mph *at* 35mph! I think it took 4-5 weeks to get to that point. It can get frustrating at first.

:rofl: I remember riding up a mountain road on my 1000cc motorcycle, and not being able to get a damn minivan off my tail.

The two times I've been rear-ended while driving my truck were sort of my fault. In both situations I wasn't paying total attention. Since I leave a good following distance, I was able to stop both times without hitting the guy in front. The guys behind me were like the average drones that follow to close, and couldn't stop. When I ride the bike, I'm much more aware, and don't let the guy behind me get too far behind if I have to come to a stop ahead. I'll also play with the brake light or weave if necessary to keep his attention, especially if I'm being tailgated.