The new F10 - has Jaguar changed the game?

[raddy]

I almost bought a 3 Series back in 2007 but lost my job, so had to hold out:cry:

Well know I have recovered, running a solid small business and will finally be able to live my life long dream of owning a BMW in mid 2010 :D

Because I now have a wife, child and hoping to add to our family - the 5 Series is my what I am learning towards. It drives like a dream and with a M package on it, it looks nice. However, over the past 2 months I decided to test drive the Jaguar XF - and it stunned me.

Its slick, great front nose and has an elegant (aston martin) type of shape. However, it is the interior that is crazy hot. It drives very nice, no at as perfect as a Bimmer - yet it was wonderful. As well, its giving this generation 5 some trouble in various comparison tests on Edmunds, Motor trend to name a few. Plus, my daughter loves it.

BMW has to please its current client base of course yet has to attract new one's as well. the very fact that many are even considering the Jag XF shows that Jag has done their job. Will the new F10 be able to do the same? Bc I know I expect so much more in terms of design due to the XF.

Jag XF interior, http://www.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/jaguar_xf_interior-497x301.jpg

Current 5 Interior, http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/comparison/2008/bmw.550i/08.bmw.550i.int.500.jpg

[daragez]

looks really nice!...thanks for the share!...

[newtman]

The first time I saw an XF, I was pretty impressed by the exterior. But the interior just *totally* kills it for me. Feels like the inside of a cadillac or something, and the controls are just plain fugly. To each their own I guess...

I almost bought a 3 Series back in 2007 but lost my job, so had to hold out:cry:

Well know I have recovered, running a solid small business and will finally be able to live my life long dream of owning a BMW in mid 2010 :D

Because I now have a wife, child and hoping to add to our family - the 5 Series is my what I am learning towards. It drives like a dream and with a M package on it, it looks nice. However, over the past 2 months I decided to test drive the Jaguar XF - and it stunned me.

Its slick, great front nose and has an elegant (aston martin) type of shape. However, it is the interior that is crazy hot. It drives very nice, no at as perfect as a Bimmer - yet it was wonderful. As well, its giving this generation 5 some trouble in various comparison tests on Edmunds, Motor trend to name a few. Plus, my daughter loves it.

BMW has to please its current client base of course yet has to attract new one's as well. the very fact that many are even considering the Jag XF shows that Jag has done their job. Will the new F10 be able to do the same? Bc I know I expect so much more in terms of design due to the XF.

Jag XF interior, http://www.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/jaguar_xf_interior-497x301.jpg

Current 5 Interior, http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/comparison/2008/bmw.550i/08.bmw.550i.int.500.jpg

[mason]

May be you should look at the 5 series GT interior pcitures. You can see where BMW would go in the future as far as interiror is concerned. The current 5 is at the end of its life cycle, change is imminent. I can tell you for sure that BMW is not doing the knob transmission thing.

[tturedraider]

One thing you can count on - BMW interiors will always be much more business like than "crazy hot". That's not BMW's thing.

[raddy]

Well we will see..

But does the XF jolt this segment now? I don't have sales numbers, but the XF is gained in popularity and is getting great reviews.

The 2010 E-Class is a failure. So its up to BMW to slap Jag back down with the new 5.

[philippek]

Jaguar and Land Rover combined sold 3,391 units in May and 15,311 year-to-date.

Even if every single one of those cars was an XF it's still far fewer than the number of 5s, E-Classes or A6s sold. In fact, I would bet that BMW sold more 5ers last month than Jag has sold XFs all year. The XF may win for 'most improved' but considering it been an also-ran for the last decade that's not really surprising. If it was going to jolt the segment it surely would have done so by now, and the fact that it was released during the worst car market in generations certainly didn't help it.

When I first saw the Jag in pictures I thought it did have an exciting silhouette and was hopefully that Jag may have gotten it's groove back. But in person the car doesn't deliver on the promises--very Lexus GS-esque, and aside from the headlights, no design details that stand out.

Jag has a very nice offering in this segment, no doubt. But I think they'll need a follow-up hit to really make this a game changer, and not just a flash in the pan.

[newtman]

Thank god...

May be you should look at the 5 series GT interior pcitures. You can see where BMW would go in the future as far as interiror is concerned. The current 5 is at the end of its life cycle, change is imminent. I can tell you for sure that BMW is not doing the knob transmission thing.

[raddy]

Just read this ...

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=149766

[tturedraider]

Just read this ...

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=149766

I can't quite believe I have to say this, but I do really hate the new E. I've never hated a Merc design before. Mercedes surely does like shiny bits - everywhere!! It looks like they must have had brainstorming sessions to think of places they could put some chrome.

The front looks like an angular version of the Lexus GS and the tail lights (I've always thought Merc had classic tail lights) look like they got them straight off an old Lincoln MKZ or Navigator. And about the tail lights, I mean that literally. And what in the world is up with those fog lights?!

I've driven the 550i sport numerous times and I disagree with what they say about its ride. I think it's about as good as it can get. I'm a 3er guy. The 5er is a big car to me. But, I'll never forget when I first drove a 5er. It makes you forget you're in a big car. And the first time I drove a 550i it really left me awestruck.

If this is the best Merc can do, I have a feeling the F10 is going to whoop up on them and leave them playing catch up for the next seven years.

[newtman]

My favorite part:

"Senior Editor Erin Riches says:
You've seen the finishing order for this comparison test, but if I'm spending my own money, I'm taking the BMW 550i. It's not a rational choice. I like the way this sedan feels. The driving position, seats and (firm) suspension damping all feel right to me every time I get behind the wheel."

and

"Why, then, wouldn't I just buy a 2010 E550 and save a few grand? Ah, because I can't accept that a midsize luxury sedan is just a luxury sedan. I want the one that plays like it's all sporty on a back road, even if I never drive it on one. So I'll take the Bimmer. You take the Benz."

Just read this ...

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=149766

[raddy]

I can't quite believe I have to say this, but I do really hate the new E. I've never hated a Merc design before. Mercedes surely does like shiny bits - everywhere!! It looks like they must have had brainstorming sessions to think of places they could put some chrome.

The front looks like an angular version of the Lexus GS and the tail lights (I've always thought Merc had classic tail lights) look like they got them straight off an old Lincoln MKZ or Navigator. And about the tail lights, I mean that literally. And what in the world is up with those fog lights?!


I have to agree. The E Class is JUST HORRIBLE!!!! I don't know how much Mercedes paid them to win this comparison. The interior looks like an Atari gaming system.

[550isport]

I'm pretty confident that the 5 series will continue to carry the torch with pride, here's why:
1) The new engines are fantastic - the V8 tt is a mountain of immediate torque and smooth as silk. It's fast, not quick, sports car "fast" in a 5300 lb. SUV, what will it be in a 3900 lb. sedan? Also the 6 gets some upgrades as well I believe (either a single scroll turbo or an upgraded twin turbo). I don't care what the magazine's numbers are, the only Jag engine that can hope to impress is the Type R. And that's a car to compare with the M5.
2) Think of how far forward BMW takes the game when they introduce new platforms. Remember the E38 7 series of 2001 vs. the E65 of 2002. There is going to be a lot of new tech and improvements with the F10 5 series.
3) As was the case with the M5 in recent comparos, the current model BMW is still good enough to compete with the newer designs from competing manufacturers. example: M5 is still the better enthusiast's car (as per MT mag) as against the CTS-V with its engine that could launch a space shuttle into orbit. I remember when the E39 was tested in R&T against the E55 and RS6 both of which were faster in a straight line and the BMW's handling spared it from a loss in the comparo. So the current 550 - essentially a 6 year old design - is the gold standard in 2009. The next 5 will reset that standard.

I think it should look good at a larger number of people due to the conservative styling as well.

And, my 2 cents - the Jag looks nice outside (although too small going down the road) and is a huge disappointment inside.

DRP

[carnuts3]

My expectations for the new 5's are in tune with yours. Can't wait. I hope they are available by the Fall of 2010.

[raddy]

I am already putting money away for the downpayment. Should be able to get it next fall :D

[raddy]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=151686

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com//media/roadtests/roadtest/10.jaguar.xfr/10.jaguar.xfr.actprf.1.500.jpg

Let's cut right to the chase. The 2010 Jaguar XFR is one of the best sport sedans in the world today.

If you're surprised, consider that the Jaguar XF sedan upon which the XFR is based is one hell of a car in its own right. And lest you forget, these are the same guys who created iconic cars like the C-Type, D-Type and E-Type. Hey, carmakers around the world are still trying to capture the magic of the original Jaguar XJ sedan.

Sure, the company has turned out some stinkers in the intervening years, but the point is that there's a pattern of excellence. It's been obscured now and again, but the XFR reminds us that the heart of Jaguar still beats strongly.

A Delicate Balance
The 2010 Jaguar XFR is more than simply an XF overstuffed with power; it's an XF overstuffed with power, colossal brakes and a lot of chassis wizardry. It's possible to spoil a good thing by simply adding "more" — the Porsche 911 Turbo comes to mind — yet the XFR succeeds beyond the sum of its parts. But we're getting ahead of ourselves.

At $80,000, the XFR is the mightiest version of Jaguar's XF sedan series. No options are found on our tester, yet the XFR is loaded with everything a sybarite could want — navigation, premium audio, multiadjustable seats, parking-alert sensors, you name it.

The external cues are relatively subtle. The 2010 Jaguar XFR wears discreet rocker sill extensions, tweaked fascias, quad tailpipes and hood vents trimmed in not-so-subtle chrome. In the white paint of our test car, the ocular jewelry looks like it would play better in Miami than in New York City. With that said, the wheels exclusive to the XFR are far less heavy-handed in design than the standard XF's visually clunky dubs.

The Main Event Lies Underhood
It seems the Coventry gang (well, the headquarters used to be in Coventry, anyway) reckons horsepower is like sex or single-malt Scotch — the right amount works out to be just a bit more than you really need. Any more than the XFR's 510 horsepower and 461 pound-feet of torque would be, well, improper, as flooring the throttle in the lower gears already makes the stability control light flicker.

With the stability control switched off, the supercharged and intercooled 5.0-liter V8 chucks the four-door XFR forward like a child does a toy. Sixty mph comes up in 4.5 seconds (4.2 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) and the car storms the quarter-mile in 12.6 seconds at 113.7 mph. This kind of thrust pips the BMW M5 and puts the Jaguar in a dead heat with a Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG, though the mighty Cadillac CTS-V still holds an edge by a couple tenths.

Truth be told, this engine is plenty powerful, and it'd be a shame if extracting even more meant spoiling the Jag's sweet part-throttle demeanor. It's always smooth and tractable, and the direct-injection V8 — said to be an all-new engine save for just two components — responds crisply to throttle inputs without raising a ruckus. Thanks to a four-lobe Eaton supercharger so refined that its characteristic blower whine is inaudible within the cabin, only the V8's characteristic muted woofle spills in when you flex your ankle with serious intent.

Special Is as Special Does
You already know most of what there is to know about the cabin, as the 2010 Jaguar XFR doesn't stray far from the cool elegance found in the XF. Its jewellike buttons and the old-world leather converge in a way that is wholly contemporary without abandoning the traditions of the marque.

Although the interior is high on style, some functional shortcomings we've noticed in the XF remain in the XFR. In addition to the blinding reflections from the chrome-trimmed console (apparently the sun shines more in Los Angeles than in London; who would have guessed?) some of the secondary controls are labeled cryptically and can be hard to decipher in low light. The multimedia interface is a step or two behind the current offerings found in the Germans and the Cadillac, and you'll be using the home button as if it were control-alt-delete on a 10-year-old laptop.

Giving It a Challenge
So we're taking pictures about midway along a ribbon of tarmac bliss that wanders and sometimes slices across the foothills of the San Gabriel Mountains in Southern California. Though we've driven it for years, the turns are so numerous that memorization of each crack and camber is elusive.

Even when we think we know what's ahead, the exits of the blind corners can hold surprises, like patches of gritty scree that have tumbled down the slope in the summer or snowmelt runoff in the winter. These surprises can be nonexistent or plentiful depending on the whims of Mother Nature.

Clearly, working well on this road places a priority on a car's ability to communicate and adjust, in addition to the basics of shedding speed under braking and biting into the bitumen while cornering. That it's mostly 2nd- and 3rd-gear stuff means that we're placing the beefy 4,400-pound Jag on its back foot from the word go.

The 2010 Jaguar XFR takes a bit of fiddling to prepare it for fast driving. Twist the transmission knob to "S," press the checkered flag chiclet to sharpen the throttle response and recalibrate the shift program and then hold the stability control button for what seems like forever to turn it off. Forget the "Trac DSC" setting — it's too timid and clamps down intrusively at the slightest hint of slip from the rear tires.

A Versatile Feline
Ready to rock, then. Right away it is apparent that the XFR's full-whack power is more than ample for this road. The ability to modulate it is the more critical aspect here. Fortunately, power can be fed to the rear wheels with precision, as the XFR's throttle is as linear as a rheostat.

Changing up and down among the lower gears, it is obvious that this six-speed automatic transmission is really a boon for fast driving. In Dynamic mode, your current gear position is represented by a large digit in the instrument cluster that changes from amber to red as you approach the rev limiter. Click the left-hand shift paddle on the steering wheel to downshift and the XFR spits out quick rev-matched downshifts. It'll even skip gears in response to several rapid tugs of the paddle.

There's a light touch in the steering at low speeds that at first feels like numbness. The steering is precise when exercised, though, and it sharply pivots the XFR's nose toward the apex of the corner. A quicker-ratio steering rack than that of the standard XF certainly helps, but we reckon it's the active differential that really shapes the XFR's cornering character, opening up for quicker turn-in and progressively locking to provide better traction as you exit a bend on the throttle. The active diff is seamless in operation — the only thing you notice is that the XFR is far more athletic than you anticipate.

Stirred, not Shaken
Yes, it's easy to underestimate the big cat since the ride never beats you up, and compliance of this sort normally spells a chassis that goes limp when shaken hard. The 2010 Jaguar XFR has another trick that explains this special poise — its active dampers help iron out road harshness that would fluster the standard XF and yet also provide better control than the standard XF.

You still have to be deliberate with your inputs on this road, as the XFR isn't some kind of stiffly sprung racecar and you need to help the chassis take a set in the turns. We found that the relatively soft underpinnings limit the Jag's slalom speed to 65.5 mph, while a modest skid-pad performance of 0.83g indicates that outright cornering grip isn't the XFR's strong suit. Yet despite these numbers, the XFR really inspires confidence in the driver and the way the XFR can make time on a twisting road like this is really impressive.

Monstrous 14.9-inch front rotors are a key part of this ability. They dissipate heat like a Taj Mahal-spec space heater and haul the heavy XFR down to a stop from 60 mph in a short 108 feet. It will take a more committed driving style or a track to fade these binders.

Putting the Pieces Together
The degree of driving involvement offered by a sport sedan is often inversely proportional to its technological complexity — simple hardware lets the driver play the dominant role, not the technology. The XFR turns this proposition on its ear, however, as the inclusion of active chassis goodies that expand the breadth of the XFR's skill set actually enhance the inherent goodness of the XF while limiting its shortcomings.

With this newfound versatility, the 2010 Jaguar XFR puts together the dynamic pieces of driving in the real world even more cohesively than the XF. It's entertaining and predictable all the way up to its limits — even if those limits aren't quite as breathtaking in abstract numbers as some other sport sedans — without upsetting the luxury balance.

A better real-world example of a sport-luxe sedan than the Jaguar XFR is difficult to find not in spite of the fact that it cheerily concedes the status of Ultimate Road Missile, but because of it. Simply put, the XFR has a universal appeal that's missing in some of its harder-edged rivals.

With the XFR, the XF-Series has fulfilled its promise of a new, old kind of Jaguar.

[TrickTizzle]

The jag is nice, but imo the 5 is sexy-er....Its more sleek..idk i like it

[photo2000a]

The jag is nice, but imo the 5 is sexy-er....Its more sleek..idk i like it

Just feel more at home in a BMW , once you drive them for a while, it's really hard to go to another car. I like alot of cars, each always have their pro's and con's. In the end it's BMW for me :thumbup:

[JSpira]

I just spent a few more days in an XF (I spent about a week in one when it first came out) and it's a super car and I love the exterior styling.

I don't particularly like the gimmicks (the shift knob and the vents that close) just as I don't like speakers that rise out of the dash (Audi).

The interior was plush but the standard seats don't provide as much support as BMW's standard seats. In standard form (haven't driven the XFR yet), it definitely doesn't HANDLE like a BMW.

Still, it's fun, it's very elegant, the quality of the materials is superb, and it will certainly influence the space the 5er Reihe plays in.