BMWNA 800 Reps Need Training [Archive] - bimmerfest

lsedels

08-19-2003, 10:27 AM

If you really do read this, I am really getting sick and tired of being directed back to the dealer every time I call an 800 number that is supposed to be for "customer relations". Frankly, you ought to consider renaming it "responsibility avoidance and customer runaround". Every time I call this number and ask a question about pricing, availability of info for the new '04 sedans, and other questions about my order (all situations that I have already asked the dealer about and they have told me that they are waiting to hear from BMWNA), I am told that at BMWNA "we don't know anything about that ... call the dealer". Are you Customer Relations or not? Should I call Mercedes or Acura to see if maybe they know more about my BMW than you do? Geez. I have never encountered such a poor level of customer courtesy and problem ownership as I have when I call that number. When someone asks you a question, TAKE OWNERSHIP and commit to the customer that you'll look into it and get them an answer! And if someone asks to speak to your manager, don't refuse telling them that your manager doesn't know anything either (that happened to me recently also). If I ever responded to my customers the way you guys do, I'd be out on my butt on the unemployment line before I knew it.

Robert A

08-19-2003, 01:52 PM

What you're running into is SOP (standard operating procedure) for BMWNA. I have experienced this myself on many occassions. Recent example: My car rec'd an oil change at the one year mark with two greens left. Now the greens are out and I wondered if I was entitled to another free oil change.

Response by BMWNA: Ask you dealer.

Response by me: I already did, and they said that I'm not. That's why I'm calling you.

Response by BMWNA: We're not equipped to handle technical issues.

Response by me: This is a question of policy. What is your policy under the Full Maintenance agreement, which was written by your company.

Response by BMWNA: Your dealer is best equipped to answer that question.

Response by me: I think my dealer might have got it wrong and I want to ask a higher source.

Response by BMWNA: Try another dealer, we can't help you.

Can you believe this? In the end, I called our BMWNA buddy Bill Stuart, who invested the question and got me a real answer.

-Robert Ades

If you really do read this, I am really getting sick and tired of being directed back to the dealer every time I call an 800 number that is supposed to be for "customer relations". Frankly, you ought to consider renaming it "responsibility avoidance and customer runaround". Every time I call this number and ask a question about pricing, availability of info for the new '04 sedans, and other questions about my order (all situations that I have already asked the dealer about and they have told me that they are waiting to hear from BMWNA), I am told that at BMWNA "we don't know anything about that ... call the dealer". Are you Customer Relations or not? Should I call Mercedes or Acura to see if maybe they know more about my BMW than you do? Geez. I have never encountered such a poor level of customer courtesy and problem ownership as I have when I call that number. When someone asks you a question, TAKE OWNERSHIP and commit to the customer that you'll look into it and get them an answer! And if someone asks to speak to your manager, don't refuse telling them that your manager doesn't know anything either (that happened to me recently also). If I ever responded to my customers the way you guys do, I'd be out on my butt on the unemployment line before I knew it.

JetBlack330i

08-19-2003, 02:06 PM

lsedels

08-19-2003, 06:35 PM

I'm a big consumer advocate, but in this particular instance, I think BMWNA is right. The dealers make the big bucks on the sale and are responsible for updating the customer on the details of that particular order. BMWNA can't possibly be staffed or equiped with info on all orders.
You got into this situation because your dealer, who owns the problem, referred you to BMWNA. They shouldn't have done that.
In general, call BMWNA after you get your car (not before) and your dealer can't resolve the problem to your satisfaction.
But I agree with your subject line. They do need more training.

You are entitled to your opinion. However, what I am trying to tell you is that:

1. The dealers DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION! They are also waiting on BMWNA. This is not the dealers' fault ... it is BMWNA's fault. My dealer did not refer me to BMWNA.
2. BMWNA is staffed to provide general info ... I have never had to wait more than 2-3 minutes to get someone on the phone.
3. Why would you say that I should call BMWNA after I get my car? Take a look at the BMWUSA website. The 800 number is for BMWNA
"Customer Relations", not BMWNA "Postsale Support" or BMWNA "Customer Complaints on Cars Already Delivered". And it is common knowledge that one can feel free to call this # if one wishes to find out things like the on-order status of their vehicle. This has been stated many many times on this very website.

This boils down to poor customer sat. The dealer has done almost everything right. But BMWNA is into not taking full responsibility for their customers.

Like I said, you are entitled to your opinion.

08-19-2003, 06:49 PM

You are entitled to your opinion. However, what I am trying to tell you is that:

1. The dealers DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION! They are also waiting on BMWNA. This is not the dealers' fault ... it is BMWNA's fault. My dealer did not refer me to BMWNA.
2. BMWNA is staffed to provide general info ... I have never had to wait more than 2-3 minutes to get someone on the phone.
3. Why would you say that I should call BMWNA after I get my car? Take a look at the BMWUSA website. The 800 number is for BMWNA
"Customer Relations", not BMWNA "Postsale Support" or BMWNA "Customer Complaints on Cars Already Delivered". And it is common knowledge that one can feel free to call this # if one wishes to find out things like the on-order status of their vehicle. This has been stated many many times on this very website.

This boils down to poor customer sat. The dealer has done almost everything right. But BMWNA is into not taking full responsibility for their customers.

Like I said, you are entitled to your opinion.

Sounds like you're pretty pissed at BMWNA. I would suggest filing a complaint with "Customer Relations". :D

Seriously though, it does sound like you have questions that should be dealt with by your dealership. Have you tried speaking with the General Manager?
Every time I call this number and ask a question about pricing, availability of info for the new '04 sedans,
Perfect examples. These are questions that should be addressed by the dealership. They are selling you the cars, not BMWNA. In regards to questions regarding your order, then I would say you're justified in calling them if you can't get answers from the dealer.

lsedels

08-20-2003, 08:14 AM

Sounds like you're pretty pissed at BMWNA. I would suggest filing a complaint with "Customer Relations". :D

Seriously though, it does sound like you have questions that should be dealt with by your dealership. Have you tried speaking with the General Manager?

Perfect examples. These are questions that should be addressed by the dealership. They are selling you the cars, not BMWNA. In regards to questions regarding your order, then I would say you're justified in calling them if you can't get answers from the dealer.

Sorry to beat this with a dead horse, but ... these are just not dealer issues. As an example, even Ted from Carbone BMW has stated openly on this site that the pricing and final details for the '04 sedans has not yet been provided to the dealers, even though this information was at the dealers by 8/8 in 2002. The dealers simply don't have this information, because it hasn't been provided by ... BMWNA. Do you really think it's fair and reasonable for me to have a 325XI on order for September build just about ready to go into 150 status (can't make changes anymore) and to not know what the price is going to be nor what any final "cosmetic" changes might be? The dealers have absolutely nothing to do with this. So ... given that ... is it so unreasonable to expect a plausible explanation from BMWNA ... which is the next logical point of escalation? Do you really think it's good customer sat practice that a "customer relations" line refers you back to the dealer, when they know that the dealer doesn't know anything more than they do? And ... when one asks to speak to a manager, do you think it's good customer sat practice to tell you that the manager doesn't know anything either and to refuse to let you talk to him/her? Sorry ... this is a matter that needs to be escalated to the proper management at BMWNA. They are simply not dealer issues.

Larry

lsedels

08-22-2003, 06:25 AM

Sorry to beat this with a dead horse, but ... these are just not dealer issues. As an example, even Ted from Carbone BMW has stated openly on this site that the pricing and final details for the '04 sedans has not yet been provided to the dealers, even though this information was at the dealers by 8/8 in 2002. The dealers simply don't have this information, because it hasn't been provided by ... BMWNA. Do you really think it's fair and reasonable for me to have a 325XI on order for September build just about ready to go into 150 status (can't make changes anymore) and to not know what the price is going to be nor what any final "cosmetic" changes might be? The dealers have absolutely nothing to do with this. So ... given that ... is it so unreasonable to expect a plausible explanation from BMWNA ... which is the next logical point of escalation? Do you really think it's good customer sat practice that a "customer relations" line refers you back to the dealer, when they know that the dealer doesn't know anything more than they do? And ... when one asks to speak to a manager, do you think it's good customer sat practice to tell you that the manager doesn't know anything either and to refuse to let you talk to him/her? Sorry ... this is a matter that needs to be escalated to the proper management at BMWNA. They are simply not dealer issues.

Larry

I can now also add that on the Owner's Circle, the options appear blank for my car. I'm told that some people have seen their options as soon as they order the car. Spoke to BMWNA on this and they once claimed that as soon as the '04 info was entered into the system, I would see this. Nada. Spoke to them again, and now they insist that I shouldn't see it until the car is actually built (which is useless to begin with). I guess this kind of ineptitude is the dealer's fault also.

Larry

lsedels

08-22-2003, 07:30 AM

sounds like you are being told a lot of lies.

Maybe it is time to re-conceder your purchase?? How can you sleep, if you don't know what you ordered, and how much you are going to pay for it??

I hope I am wrong, but you sound like someone who is never going to be happy with your purchase/delivery experience, and any little or big problem your car has in the future is going to piss you off even more.

Maybe it is time to get your deposit (if you had to pay one) take a few steps back, and find a dealer/salesman you are more comfortable with.

Isedels, I'm not saying this to try to upset you, I'm just worried that you are never going to be happy with this purchase.

For the amout of money you are paying for a new automobile, you deserve to be a "Happy Customer"

Doug,

I am very happy with the purchase experience that I have had ... the dealer has done a reasonable job of handling things. I'm not sure where you get the idea that I won't be happy with my purchase. But these "issues" with BMWNA and their poor customer responsiveness and poor customer satisfaction are inexcusable for any reputable business. Especially one that charges BMW's prices.

Let me also add that I am actually also in sales for a large information technology company. If I ever ... I mean EVER ... gave answers like this to any of my customers, I'd be out on my rear faster than I could say boo. Your indifferent attitude is kinda disturbing. It seems to me that you should take more pride in being a BMW owner, and you should want the customer service of the company whose vehicle you own to be the best on earth. But ... to each his own.

Larry

08-22-2003, 12:05 PM

Doug,

I am very happy with the purchase experience that I have had ... the dealer has done a reasonable job of handling things. I'm not sure where you get the idea that I won't be happy with my purchase. But these "issues" with BMWNA and their poor customer responsiveness and poor customer satisfaction are inexcusable for any reputable business. Especially one that charges BMW's prices.

Let me also add that I am actually also in sales for a large information technology company. If I ever ... I mean EVER ... gave answers like this to any of my customers, I'd be out on my rear faster than I could say boo. Your indifferent attitude is kinda disturbing. It seems to me that you should take more pride in being a BMW owner, and you should want the customer service of the company whose vehicle you own to be the best on earth. But ... to each his own.

Larry

Now I really am more confused. You did not buy your car from BMWNA, so why should they be providing you details about your sale. It would seem to me that BMWNA Customer Relations is there to provide customer relations for BMWNA, not your local dealership. I think there is a basic misunderstanding at this point.

I also am in IT software sales. If you sold product through channel or resllers, who would you tell your customer (use the term loosely if you haven't actually SOLD anything) would be their main point of contact regarding terms of the sale? The manufacturer or the product, or the entity selling the product. In my mind, if a prospect called me asking for details about my resellers contracts, I'd tell them to go back to the point of origin. There's nothing I can do for them since I did not sell them anything.

lsedels

08-22-2003, 03:00 PM

Now I really am more confused. You did not buy your car from BMWNA, so why should they be providing you details about your sale. It would seem to me that BMWNA Customer Relations is there to provide customer relations for BMWNA, not your local dealership. I think there is a basic misunderstanding at this point.

I also am in IT software sales. If you sold product through channel or resllers, who would you tell your customer (use the term loosely if you haven't actually SOLD anything) would be their main point of contact regarding terms of the sale? The manufacturer or the product, or the entity selling the product. In my mind, if a prospect called me asking for details about my resellers contracts, I'd tell them to go back to the point of origin. There's nothing I can do for them since I did not sell them anything.

We're getting off topic here. PM me if you want to understand where I'm coming from. I don't want to bore everyone else by taking them through customer sat philosophies. Suffice it to say that sometimes, we also use channels, but bottom line is it's our product.

Larry

Terry Kennedy

08-22-2003, 03:21 PM

I can now also add that on the Owner's Circle, the options appear blank for my car. I'm told that some people have seen their options as soon as they order the car. Spoke to BMWNA on this and they once claimed that as soon as the '04 info was entered into the system, I would see this. Nada. Spoke to them again, and now they insist that I shouldn't see it until the car is actually built (which is useless to begin with). I guess this kind of ineptitude is the dealer's fault also.The status information on Owner's Circle seems to be more to entice you to sign up for OC rather than to track the status of your car's production. This has been well covered here in the past. There are a bunch of ways to make OC more useful, which BMW doesn't seem to want to implement. But that really isn't relevant to the main point here.

You can get a printout from your dealer of the exact order (options and status). The dealers use this all the time (people change their minds about options, and also dealers convert "generic" build orders into order-for-customer cars). Your Client Advisor should be able to get this data for you and provide it to you in person or via FAX (not all dealers have workable email, so I wouldn't rely on email for this). If the CA can't/won't help, talk to the manager.

I don't see this as being a BMWNA issue. They have a system in place for dealers to make these inquiries and get up-to-the-minute status info, and it works. If your dealer is being diffcult, that is an issue you could take up with BMWNA. Note: According to the top folks at BMWNA, they don't have a lot of ability to force dealers to do things due to the way the franchise laws are written in the US.

Also, BMWNA will treat almost any issue as "customer is unhappy with dealer" and will give the dealer's management a hard time. I once commented to BMWNA (in person, to top management) that the build quality on my wagon was poor (stuff that could only be done wrong at the factory) and they chewed my dealer out for it. I had to call BMWNA back and talk to the guy's assistanr to get him to send my complaint letter to Germany and apologize to my dealer. A corollary to this is that if you complain to BMWNA about anything, your dealer will likely bear the brunt of it and not be too happy.

lsedels

08-22-2003, 04:55 PM

The status information on Owner's Circle seems to be more to entice you to sign up for OC rather than to track the status of your car's production. This has been well covered here in the past. There are a bunch of ways to make OC more useful, which BMW doesn't seem to want to implement. But that really isn't relevant to the main point here.

You can get a printout from your dealer of the exact order (options and status). The dealers use this all the time (people change their minds about options, and also dealers convert "generic" build orders into order-for-customer cars). Your Client Advisor should be able to get this data for you and provide it to you in person or via FAX (not all dealers have workable email, so I wouldn't rely on email for this). If the CA can't/won't help, talk to the manager.

I don't see this as being a BMWNA issue. They have a system in place for dealers to make these inquiries and get up-to-the-minute status info, and it works. If your dealer is being diffcult, that is an issue you could take up with BMWNA. Note: According to the top folks at BMWNA, they don't have a lot of ability to force dealers to do things due to the way the franchise laws are written in the US.

Also, BMWNA will treat almost any issue as "customer is unhappy with dealer" and will give the dealer's management a hard time. I once commented to BMWNA (in person, to top management) that the build quality on my wagon was poor (stuff that could only be done wrong at the factory) and they chewed my dealer out for it. I had to call BMWNA back and talk to the guy's assistanr to get him to send my complaint letter to Germany and apologize to my dealer. A corollary to this is that if you complain to BMWNA about anything, your dealer will likely bear the brunt of it and not be too happy.

Fascinating. Blame the dealer for a problem with the car quality? I love the car, but it sounds like the company has a few organizational problems. I sure hope that once it's delivered, I don't have any problems! Thanks for the insight. BTW ... I did know about the dealer's ability to get a printout. Just seems to me that if you're going to provide the ability via owner's circle to "query" the car, the info ought to be there for completeness. Guess I'm just too idealistic!

Larry

Terry Kennedy

08-22-2003, 05:55 PM

Fascinating. Blame the dealer for a problem with the car quality? I love the car, but it sounds like the company has a few organizational problems.Actually, this is more common than it seems. The classic case was DEC (Digital Equipment Corporation) where no matter what you said (praise/criticism) of any part of the company (sales/manufacturing/service), the local Field Service unit manager would get called on the carpet, even if the customer didn't have a service contract and never used them!

The idea, in principle, is good - customers have a single point of contact when dealing with the company. In this case, that is the dealer Client Advisor (before sale) and Service Advisor (after sale) and it is their job to make the customer happy. But (as I pointed out in my letter to BMWNA) it is inefficient to expect the customer to discover manufacturing defects and then have the dealer correct them, when everybody (customer, dealer, BMW) would be happier if they just built them right at the factory. Not to mention, it would really improve BMW's JD Power, Consumer Reports, etc. reliability scores.

I'm really happy with my car now that the gremlins have been ironed out, and I expect you will be as well (and it is very unlikely you'll have as many gremlins as I did!)

08-22-2003, 06:19 PM

I'm really happy with my car now that the gremlins have been ironed out, and I expect you will be as well (and it is very unlikely you'll have as many gremlins as I did!)
Just for the record... my car is 2 years old w/ 24k miles and there have been no gremlins. I have been completely satisfied w/ my BMW and would definitely consider another one when my lease expires in a year.

As for BMWNA, I have found them to be of great value. Most of the pre-sale was done through my own inquiries on roadfly and I was a very informed client. Once I obtained the necessary docs from my dealership, I was able to get status updates from BMWNA via telephone calls up until a few days before delivery.

The only time I had any problem (if you call it that) with my car was the sticky pedal. Armed with the knowledge from fellow 'festers (Chris and alee) I called the right person at BMWNA and got my pedal fix pre-arranged. All I had to do was call my dealer and drop off my car.

Terry Kennedy

08-22-2003, 07:13 PM

Just for the record... my car is 2 years old w/ 24k miles and there have been no gremlins. I have been completely satisfied w/ my BMW and would definitely consider another one when my lease expires in a year.I think I had an exceptionally bad case - probably due to nobody knowing about the changes for 2003 models (mine was built in the second week of MY 2003 production), and the assembly line being in a hurry to crank cars out to deal with the backlog (they apparently shut down the line for a few weeks when changing model years).

bmw325

08-22-2003, 07:33 PM

Also, BMWNA will treat almost any issue as "customer is unhappy with dealer" and will give the dealer's management a hard time. I once commented to BMWNA (in person, to top management) that the build quality on my wagon was poor (stuff that could only be done wrong at the factory) and they chewed my dealer out for it. I had to call BMWNA back and talk to the guy's assistanr to get him to send my complaint letter to Germany and apologize to my dealer. A corollary to this is that if you complain to BMWNA about anything, your dealer will likely bear the brunt of it and not be too happy.

THis seems to be a recurring theme in many service businesses. Somehow, its never the quality of the work or product itself thats poor, its the people who are selling, serving or serving it. In BMW's case, both could stand improvement-- although many of the problems we face are simply poor design by the engineering staff (or possibly their managers who didn't allocate enough money or time to a project). They are the ones that deserve to be "chewed out" in many cases.

nealh

10-11-2003, 05:21 PM

The last thing I would want is my call to BMWNA to affect the dealer unless I am complaining about the service or mistreatment

If BMW really chews out the dealer for a call to BMWNA about the product that is very sad state of affairs. It indicates a company looking to blame ancillary "staff" for their issues

As stated about they trumpet that BMWNA is for customer service and relations. The last thing I would want to hear is we have no technical knowledge, or problem solving skills...why waste having the service..I would rather not have and have them save the money and lower the car costs..Jeez

In the last several years companies fel no responsibility for their product. They seem to believe it is my privelege to pay my hard earned money and I should never expect a quality product or service.

I buy a BMW or other high end luxury vehicle because I expect better service and support than at Chevy...I paid the premium.

What I get is just lip service....sad :((

If I hear that BMWNA calls my dealer I will be pissed ...I a mnot trying to "hurt" the dealer in anyway...I have no issue with them but the product built by BMW the corporation.

My dealer has been a pleasure to deal with..in fact I have spent $400 as minor add on ..I have never done this before and they have been great

I think on Mon. I will call BMWNA back t omake sure they know the dealer ahs been great so far