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View Full Version : The truth about Zaino (long)


Nat Brown
03-20-2002, 02:51 PM
There's a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about the Zaino system. I've only been using it a short time, but the reality of this stuff is not what you would think from reading this board. Let me clear up a couple of misconceptions.

MISCONCEPTION #1

:thumbdwn:

It's Expensive

Zaino is not expensive; it's comparably priced. To properly Zaino your car, it's recommended that you go through similar steps as you would with a wax system. First you clay bar, then you apply polish lok, followed by polish, and a gloss enhancer. The wax equivalent is similar: clay bar, polish, wax, enhancer (like McGuire's Final Inspection). For novices with no detailing experience, all these steps might seem extreme. For car care veterans, these steps make sense, and the only difference is the application method between the two processes.

Let's break down the cost:

ZAINO
8.95 Z1 Polish Lok
16.95 Z5 Polish
9.95 Z6 Gloss Enhancer Spray
16.95 Z18 Clay Bar
=====
$52.80


CONVENTIONAL WAXING (prices from Motorhead.net for smallest sized items)
10.59 3M Imperial Hand Glaze (polish)
13.99 One Grand Blitz Wax (wax)
5.99 McGuires Final Inspection #34 (enhancer)
24.99 3M Perfect-It III Cleaner Clay (clay)
=====
$55.56


MISCONCEPTION #2

:thumbdwn:

It's difficult to use

Zaino is easier to use. Washing and clay barring are the same in both methods, but when it comes to polish, Zaino really shines. With conventional waxing, you apply your polish, let it dry, and then buff off your polish. Then you apply your wax, let it dry, and buff off your wax. Then you spray down the car with Final Inspection or something similar. This is a lot of work!

With Zaino, you apply a thin coat of polish lok, let it dry, then appy a coat of polish on top of that. You then buff out the coating when it's dry. This removed a step, one that take a great deal of work. The gloss enhancer spray has the same effect as a Final Inspection product.

Zaino has the added bonus that it the shine will improved with added applications. This is not true with wax. A second coat of wax won't help your shine -- the car can only take so much wax. For those who don't want to add multiple coats of Zaino, that's fine. It's not required.

MISCONCEPTION #3

:thumbdwn:

It lasts just as long as wax, so why bother?

Before thewaxtest.com went down, they had tested Zaino against a variety of conventional waxes. After several months of outdoor exposure, all the conventional waxes were wearing off, while the Zaino was shiny and going strong. Although there needs to be more testing, it's clear that Zaino outlasts wax.


FINAL ANALYSIS

So if it costs less, is easier to put on, and lasts longer, why are there so many naysayers?

1. FEAR. People fear the unknown, and if grandpa waxed the Chevy with Mother's California Gold Wax, it's good enough for me.

2. LAZINESS. People who buy their wax at Pep Boys and think a clay bar is where gumby picks up chicks are likely to be daunted by both the conventional waxing procedure and the Zaino treatment. Zaino doesn't require a lot of work, but it requires traditional detailing steps that many car owners find excessive.

3. CONFUSION. The Zaino web site is a disaster area, with Z's flying all over the place. Even after reading the site it's easy to order the wrong products, too many products, or nothing at all out of confusion. Sal Zaino is his own worst enemy when it comes to sales and marketing and he needs to document his product better, and set up some e-commerce to help people buy his wares.

That's my armchair analysis!

--gary

Alex Baumann
03-20-2002, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Nat Brown
It lasts just as long as wax, so why bother?

Before thewaxtest.com went down, they had tested Zaino against a variety of conventional waxes. After several months of outdoor exposure, all the conventional waxes were wearing off, while the Zaino was shiny and going strong. Although there needs to be more testing, it's clear that Zaino outlasts wax.

Very nice write up :thumb:

Take a look at this pic of my car. As I took it, the car was Z'd 3 months before.

Click (http://erikli-hamburg.bei.t-online.de/nose1.jpg)

You be the judge.

Alex

in_d_haus
03-20-2002, 05:13 PM
I have to take exception with your analysis.

Originally posted by Nat Brown
MISCONCEPTION #1

(snip)... To properly Zaino your car, it's recommended that you go through similar steps as you would with a wax system. First you clay bar, then you apply polish lok, followed by polish, and a gloss enhancer. The wax equivalent is similar: clay bar, polish, wax, enhancer (like McGuire's Final Inspection).

I don't use a "gloss enhancer", just clay, polish, and wax.


MISCONCEPTION #2

It's difficult to use

(snip) ... With conventional waxing, you apply your polish, let it dry, and then buff off your polish. Then you apply your wax, let it dry, and buff off your wax. Then you spray down the car with Final Inspection or something similar. This is a lot of work!

I don't (and you shouldn't) allow polish to dry on your car.
I also don't apply a gloss enhancer (see #1)

FINAL ANALYSIS

So if it costs less, is easier to put on, and lasts longer, why are there so many naysayers?

1. FEAR. People fear the unknown, and if grandpa waxed the Chevy with Mother's California Gold Wax, it's good enough for me.

2. LAZINESS. People who buy their wax at Pep Boys and think a clay bar is where gumby picks up chicks are likely to be daunted by both the conventional waxing procedure and the Zaino treatment. Zaino doesn't require a lot of work, but it requires traditional detailing steps that many car owners find excessive.

3. CONFUSION. The Zaino web site is a disaster area, with Z's flying all over the place. Even after reading the site it's easy to order the wrong products, too many products, or nothing at all out of confusion. Sal Zaino is his own worst enemy when it comes to sales and marketing and he needs to document his product better, and set up some e-commerce to help people buy his wares.

That's my armchair analysis!

--gary


I'm glad that you are very pleased with the results that you get with Zaino. :) I'm very pleased with the result I get with the products I use (and have trophys to show for it) :D

DON'T call me scared, lazy, or confused because I don't choose to use the same product you do!!!! :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn: It's MY money and I'll spend it on whatever products I care to!

Haus

Nat Brown
03-20-2002, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by in_d_haus
I have to take exception with your analysis.

In no way am I implying that conventional waxing is inferior, nor am I implying that those who don't use Zaino don't use it because of the factors I mentioned.

What I am saying is that there is a gross distortion of how this product works, and there are people who regularly demonstrate reactionary judgements about Zaino and those who use it, as if it's a cult of insane polish madmen who spend every waking moment on their cars. This is simply not the case.

As someone who recent found this product helpful and who thought about using it for over a year before adopting it, I can say that it's cheaper, easier and demonstrates superior results than conventional waxing. I was surprised to find this was the case and thought others might also find this enlightening.

--gary

in_d_haus
03-20-2002, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Nat Brown
as if it's a cult of insane polish madmen who spend every waking moment on their cars. This is simply not the case.
--gary

Were not ???? Rip?... Al?... :D

Ok Gary, point(s) taken.

Peace :thumb:
Haus

Emission
03-20-2002, 06:03 PM
Personally, I think Zaino and all other clay/wax/polish systems are a waste of time.

I wash my car every weekend with lots of sudsy water and a soft sponge. I dry with a water blade and cotton towels. If I get a wild hair, I will spray some $4.95 spray wax on my hood, roof, and trunk. Wow, does she shine...

My car looks brand-new.

Now, do you think I have it easy because my car is silver, I live in Los Angeles (almost no rain this year), and my car is garaged? You bet I do!

If you use Zaino (or any other wax system) depends on more than just being lazy, cheap, or confused. It depends on where you drive your car, if you garage it, and what color it is.

blackdawg
03-20-2002, 06:34 PM
i like the products that classic motoring carries and right now i'm pleased with blackfire. it's a polymer concept, and the cerebral nature of the system just appeals to me.

but at certain pricepoints, there hasn't been one product better than the rest. it's the method and not the product, which seems to make the difference.

'am glad you sorted out the misconceptions about zaino, though. sounds like it works for you. i try 3 different systems on three different cars and it's fun to compare. in the end: is there a quantum difference? nope.

31st330i
03-20-2002, 06:42 PM
your argument is flawed.

point 1 price:

1a:
the clay bar kit you quote is the most expensive one I've ever heard of. it's probably one of the more difficult ones to find as well. the Mother's kit can be had for ~$14 at any pep boys or kragen. furthermore, it comes with a Final Inspection equivalent. there's also a meguiars kit that is similarly priced and comes with the detailer spray as well. the adjusted total price for comparison is really $38.56, making zaino more expensive by $14.24. if you factor in the extra cost of ZFX over Z1, add another $11 to the $52.20 to make $63.20. this makes zaino *more* expensive (in YOUR comparison) by almost $25.

1b:
for most people, the IHG (or even meguair's show car glaze) will be a one time purchase and will likely pushed to the back of the cabinet and replaced with another brand before it actually runs out. for the people that do go through this like water, it is available in bulk quantities, saving even more money.

so once people depleat their original supply, the next "refresher" batch of supplies will be *less* with the meguair's system.

1c:
you didn't factor in car wash. that is probably going to be the product that you go through the most of. again, meguiar's can be purchased in bulk (I had a gallon that lasted ~1.75 years on two cars). the cost factor of zaino will really add up over time (beyond initial purchase) as will the cost of the Z6 spray. final inspection is available in gallons to save even more money.

point 2 difficult to use
since you only really need to polish once or maybe twice a year, your statement is misleading. except for the once a year ritual of doing a full on cleaning, all you really need to do is wash and wax. this is in fact LESS work than the zaino system. if the new ZFX is used, then it's the SAME amount of work (excluding the one to two times a year you do a full 3 step job).

point 3 lasts just as long as wax per waxtest.com
well, the difference between what thewaxtest did and real life is driving the car through different weather conditions and lots of road debris. while zaino may indeed last as long if not longer than a good carnauba or even another polymer for that matter, your argument is still flawed. case in point is the P21S wax. they got outstanding results with it and it even lasted a long time but for people who actually use their cars as a daily driver, the wax just doesn't stand up. this has been supported by posts on teh org as well as on autopia and even from vendors like carcareonline who sell ALL of the brands.


your conclusion
points 1 and 2 seem more inflamatory than anything else.

you hit right on about sal zaino. no argument. not accepting credit cards or even paypal is really cumbersome to the consumer. he may be intentionaly throttling his sales though since he does consider this to be "...an enthusiast product...."


none the less, thank you for your honest review.

31st330i
03-20-2002, 07:20 PM
another comment on price....

I'm a brand new user of zaino and the check I sent them was for almost exactly $100. I purchased the ZFX which is in liu of and more expenzive than the Z1. granted, I ordered QTY 2 of Z6 and Z7 but that's only because these high volume products come from zaino in thimble size.

to *refresh* my meguiar's supply would have cost (based on prices from carcareonline.com):

$20.25 - 1 gallon of #62 car wash
$19.80 - 1 gallon #34 of final inspection spray
$18.00 - one 16oz bottle of medallion wax (which is actually a polymer/carnauba blend giving us the best of both worlds)

total $58.05


a future zaino refresh using HALF the wash and spray quantities of meguiar's

$19.95 - ZFX
$16.95 - Z5
$39.80 - four 16oz bottles (half gallon) of Z6
$31.80 - four 16oz bottles (half gallon) of Z7

total $108 - nearly TWICE the price for half the amount of wash and spray

ict330xi
03-20-2002, 07:48 PM
I have been using Zaino on my cars for 1 year now and although I find the ordering process, yes, cumbersome, it isnt that bad. I mail the form and the check and it gets to me within a week. It really isnt a problem-much easier than going to a parts store 10 miles away. I also find the products easy to use and they smell good. One of the things that I reallly like as opposed to a wax, is that if you get it on the black trim its easy to get off.

As for the cost factor-BFD, I drive a 43,000 car.

Is it really necessary as Emission points out-well probably not, but I enjoy fiddling around with the car.

I am not saying its better than other products, I just like it and would never rag on someone who uses the other great products out there. I dont think anyone else is trying to say that or do that either.

Nice review Gary!
:D

31st330i
03-20-2002, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by ict330xi
As for the cost factor-BFD, I drive a 43,000 car.

sorry but that's BS reasoning not unlike K&N junk science. :rolleyes:

just because on has an expensive car doesn't dictate the need to buy expensive car care products to get the SAME or similar end result. it's not like I'm arguing that you go buy the least expensive turtle wax possible. besides, our cars have no emotions and will never know we skimped on price (wait... I think Dinan has an "emotions" upgrade in the works).

at this point, I remain neutral and will will remain neutral untill several months after I've applied the zaino that I presently have on order.

CaliJeff
03-21-2002, 01:22 AM
[i]

3. CONFUSION. The Zaino web site is a disaster area, with Z's flying all over the place.

That's my armchair analysis!

--gary [/B]


What's wrong with Z's flying all over the place? Sounds like a great time to me. :thumb: :thumb:

fuz
03-21-2002, 01:56 AM
Well, I just Zaino-ed my new steel grey 325i...

All I can say is that it's easier to remove than Klasse, and looks a bit better (it's less artificial looking). However, the difference between no Zaino and Zaino is so subtle that given a comparison in broad daylight, I'd be hard pressed to find a difference until I go up and touch the paint. I can only see a difference when the light gets low--then I can see how shinny it is by all the lights that reflect off. On the other hand, any good wax gives the same results.

AND, I'd have to say that Zaino IS expensive. Very expensive. I spent over $120 on a moderate supply that should last me a few years. I'm not a total detail freak so I don't use the QD Z6 spray except between layering, but I do wash often, and the price of Z7 may eventually kill the Z system for me.

The two bottles of Klasse AIO an SG I have, will last perhaps as long as the car. Probably longer now that I only use it to wax the wheels. The only thing I don't like about Klasse, and why I chose Zaino over it, is that the SG is very difficult to remove, and takes a long time to dry. Zaino with ZFX is just wipe on, wait 5 min, and wipe off with minimal effort. I don't mind using the Z6 between as it gets off any residue I miss the first time. Other people say it's excessive, and to an extent I believe it. (It is really good at keeping dust off the car if you use it just right though; anti-static properties seem to lessen pickup by 20-30%; can really see it because of all the pollen that is usually around)

So why did I buy it for the price? Well actually I got it just because of the hype. Compared to what I hear, I’m very disappointed. But if it weren’t for the price I’d say it has a significant lead over all the synthetics I’ve tried. (haven’t tried Blackfire yet) I like the feel of it the best. It leaves a very slick coat that Klasse can’t quite match. The kind that makes people go oooooh… The non-trim staining nature of it is a very high plus, as is durability, which with three coats seems to last half a year on other vehicles I’ve tried.

Overall unfortunately, I’ll still have to say that Pinnacle Souveran actually looks better, and applies even easier. If it weren’t for the durability I’d use that. I might switch back to it when my supply of Z runs out and I think I can keep up with monthly waxing. But then again I like hearing my neighbors say:

“you spent $120 on just WAX???” :thumb:

ict330xi
03-21-2002, 05:52 AM
31 your are right!
"sorry but that's BS reasoning not unlike K&N junk science. "

I did a poor job of stating my point. It's only a few bucks one way or the other for the different pdts. And if you only apply maybe 3-4 times a year, the price is negligible.

I too, as I tried to say am neutral, but for myself I like Zaino because of the intangibles (ease, smell, results in my hands) and I totally agree with you about the ability of buying in bulk with many of the other products.:thumb:

Guest84
03-21-2002, 06:09 AM
I don't usually "promote" any particular wax because its my belief that it's more important to properly prepare the finish, and have a good application/removal process of any product.

However, since your naming numbers, Griots Garage starter kit includes the following:

16 ounce Car Wash
35 ounce Wheel Cleaner with Finest Sprayer cleaning sponge
16 ounce Best of Show Wax®
8 ounce bar of Paint Cleaning Clay
35 ounce Speed Shine®
8 ounces of Vinyl & Rubber Dressing.

Cost $59.00

Now if you measure that up to Zaino, Zaino is quite a bit more expensive.

Now, personally, I would also purchase either Griots Carnauba wax or P21S Carnauba in place of the Best of Show wax, and add P21S Paint Cleaner to this equation.

Other than that, I prefer natural waxes to polymers simply because my car is not exposed to the elements as harshly as others may be..polymers do have increased longevity, but thats a non-factor because the TLC my finish gets, garaged, never driven in snow or when the roads have been sanded, etc., I get the same longevity out of Carnauba-based waxes.

Guest84
03-21-2002, 06:21 AM
Incidently, this thread should be in the Detail forum.

Alex Baumann
03-21-2002, 06:26 AM
I'm living in one of the most rainy regions in Germany and I've used every kinda carnauba wax (except fr*cking expensive Zymol crap). Nothing has beaten the durability and the shine of Zaino till yet.

Application ? Bah ! Zaino is like butter. Easy to apply, easy to buff off. Since I can't find Meguiar's in my part of the world, I don't want to speculate on it. (I'd like to try their polymer based products though)

Price ? Non importante. I have almost 6-7 coats on the paint and there's enough stuff for another 15 in the bottles for the next year. I paid about $80 for Z1,Z2,Z5 and Z6. $80 in two years is too much ? Don't think so. That makes less then $4 in a month.

Sjumper
03-21-2002, 06:28 AM
I don't find the ordering process difficult at all. But then, I deal with their distributor in Canada. I fax them my order with my credit card number :D . They courier it to my door.

As far as application, I like it much better than normal wax because it doesn't leave the white stuff on the trim. I wish I can get back all the time that I wasted trying to pick out all the white residue from the car when I used to use Zymol. There are still some of the sh*t in deep cracks.

The stuff really does last. The last time I applied Zaino on my car was in early September. Today, when I touch the paint, I can still feel the slickness when I remove the dirt on the surface with my finger. And I haven't even washed it since September! On the other hand, my Subaru that got the normal wax treatment from the dealer (I told delivery of it in mid-November) looked and felt rough after a couple of weeks of snow and salt.

The price is a little steep but I have used very small quantities. I think it will last me for a few years. Remeber, THIN coats.:D

JPinTO
03-21-2002, 06:32 AM
ARRRGGHGHGHHGHGHH!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Alex & SJumper----- You B@ST@RDS!

I was going to order P21S.... now I read your comments I'm thinking of ordering Zaino. This BETTER NOT BE RAINBOW WAX!

Sjumper
03-21-2002, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by JPinTO
ARRRGGHGHGHHGHGHH!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Alex & SJumper----- You B@ST@RDS!

I was going to order P21S.... now I read your comments I'm thinking of ordering Zaino. This BETTER NOT BE RAINBOW WAX!

Come on, JP. If Mr. SitOnTheFence (AKA Alex) has an opinion on this topic, you gotta believe him.

Just go visit their website (Canadian distributor):

http://www.car-fanatic.com/

Download the ordering form and fax it to them.
Glad I can help:thumb:

p.s. I am getting some new wheels from the boys at Steelcase Tire n' Mags. Fun guys to deal with. LONG wait for the rims to come in. This is for my crappy Subaru.

Guest84
03-21-2002, 07:06 AM
Next time your at a car show, do a quick poll with the owners of the auto's. Ask them 'Polymer or Carnauba'. I think you'll be surprised. :)

Both are great, polymers just outlast Carnauba's.

31st330i
03-21-2002, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by ict330xi
31 your are right!
"sorry but that's BS reasoning not unlike K&N junk science. "

I did a poor job of stating my point. It's only a few bucks one way or the other for the different pdts. And if you only apply maybe 3-4 times a year, the price is negligible.

I too, as I tried to say am neutral, but for myself I like Zaino because of the intangibles (ease, smell, results in my hands) and I totally agree with you about the ability of buying in bulk with many of the other products.:thumb:


well, I agree with you on color choice!! ;)

31st330i
03-21-2002, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by Ripsnort
...because its my belief that it's more important to properly prepare the finish, and have a good application/removal process of any product.

YES!!!!

and that's part of what gives zaino users the results. they (you/we) all seem to follow the same *process* and get decent results every time. but I've been getting good results with meguir's as well because of process/technique.

JPinTO
03-21-2002, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by Sjumper

p.s. I am getting some new wheels from the boys at Steelcase Tire n' Mags. Fun guys to deal with. LONG wait for the rims to come in. This is for my crappy Subaru.

Steelcase has the best deals in the city. They can get stuff from Tire Rack in the USA for comparable amounts as being in the US.

I got a set of Sumitomo HTRZ2 for my 323i a few weeks ago from them for a great deal. They also ordered a set of ML55 wheels for my M-Class from Tirerack. Dave the owner is a good guy.

Nat Brown
03-21-2002, 08:21 AM
I made my original post into a web page:

http://www.bariaur.com/e39/zaino.html

I've added more price analsysis and counter-arguments about Zaino. It goes something like this: yes, ounce for ounce, Zaino is twice as expensive, but the reasoning is that it lasts twice as long (or at least significantly longer).

Anyway, check out the revisions. If you want to write a counter-argument, and it's reasonably well argued (not, Gary is a moron so...), I'll be happy to post it on my web page.

--gary

31st330i
03-21-2002, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by Nat Brown
I made my original post into a web page:

http://www.bariaur.com/e39/zaino.html

I've added more price analsysis and counter-arguments about Zaino. It goes something like this: yes, ounce for ounce, Zaino is twice as expensive, but the reasoning is that it lasts twice as long (or at least significantly longer).

Anyway, check out the revisions. If you want to write a counter-argument, and it's reasonably well argued (not, Gary is a moron so...), I'll be happy to post it on my web page.

--gary

great, thanks gary. I think there's enough evidenc to show that in general it and other polymers do last longer than a carnauba wax but I also think that stating zaino lasts twice as long is optimistic at best. I have not seen any evidence or testimnoials that make that (twice as long) claim.

31st330i
03-21-2002, 08:59 AM
on your page you still show the overall cost to be less with zaino. that's simply not the case. I feel that it is misleading, even if unintentional.

first of all, I think that now ZFX is available, 99% of us will start using that instead of Z1. it accomplishes the same thing but in one pass instead of two. it is over twice the price, though, and you need to buy one ZFX for each bottle of Z1, Z2 or Z5 that you buy (it *might* be one ZFX per two polish - don't remember).

second of all, the most readily available clay bar kit is still the mothers and it comes with a quick detailer spray. in fact from what I gather and price aside, many people prefer this kit to the meguiars kit or even separate items. it has been said by a number of people that the meguiar's clay streaks (though I've never observed this). sal zaino even said that there's really no difference in the clay.

I think leaving out the price of car wash and calculating the over time expense of one system over the other is also misleading because this is really where zaino starts to become more expensive.

in this case, comparing MSRP to MSRP is not correct (not that you've done this - just making a statement) because you always pay MSRP for zaino and the street prices of the other items are almost always discounted from MSRP.

anyway, following your example (one time purchase and no car wash), I'd change the pricing to this:

$16.95 Z5
$ 9.95 Z6
$16.95 Z18
$19.95 ZFX
----------------
$63.80 total


prices from carcareonline & kragen:

$ 8.10 meguiar's #7 show car glaze (many people feel that IHG & #7 are both very good products and that they provide the same results. smaller, 16oz, quantity quoted, which should still be a "life time" supply of polish for most people.)
$15.30 10oz can of blitz wax
$15.00 mother's clay bar kit (comes with quick detailer spray)
----------------
$38.40 total


that's a difference of over $25 before we even get in to normalizing the price for usage over time and buying in bulk.

Nat Brown
03-21-2002, 10:00 AM
Good points.

From what I've seen using Z1 and Z5, I won't be bothering with ZFX. It just didn't take very long for me to wait. I suppose if you lived where it's colder, or more humid, this might be a big consideration. If I had to wait 24 hours to buff out the Z5, I would find that unacceptable. In my case, it took 2 hours at around 50 degrees on a rainy day. This is probably the worst scenario I would encounter in Northern California. Heck, we don't go outside if it's much colder than that. ;)

As for clay bar, I went with the carcareonline recommendation. You'll notice I changed this from my original post, which simply used the cheapest clay available from motorhead.net. It's difficult for me to compare Zaino to "everything else." People have their preferences. So I asked myself, with all the available detailing products, what would I use (besides Zaino)? The items on that list are the items I've selected in the past and what I would recommend to friends. The 3M IHG and Blitz are stellar performers. The items listed "best of breed" products reviewed by reputable sources. I wouldn't buy the mother's clay bay kit because I'm a big fan of McGuires Final Inspection. To be honest, I use the Zaino clay with Final Inspection.

I left out the car wash because I don't think it's integral to the process. A gallon tub of McGuires somethingorrather probably won't make a difference to the process. If I were to make a comparison, I would compare the Zaino wash to P21S Body Wash.

What I left out that IS important is the labor involved in not having to wax your car as often. Even if it's every 4 months for Zaino compared to every 3 months for carnauba, that's about a 5 hour savings! Even at minimum wage you've just about paid for your Zaino.

As for MSRP, these things change often, and to put the prices on the web page is to ask for trouble. Instead, I listed MSRP for prducts with a counter-point that you can probably get them for about 10% cheaper if you shop around.

So to summarize:

1. If you go ZFX, you'll raise the Zaino cost.
2. The product comparison is highly subjective.
3. The pricing of the products can vary by about 10%.
4. Not included in this argument is the labor savings.


--gary

31st330i
03-21-2002, 12:05 PM
well, great thread. I bet we can beat it do death some more once I've had a chance to try it out for myself. ;) I only sent in my order the other day. I am hoping to be impressed but not counting on it.

I'm in the bay area as well. east bay, specifically.

Guest84
03-21-2002, 12:09 PM
Also missing is "Environmental factors"

For instance, I put Griots Carnuaba wax on my wife Explorer back in August, the wax is STILL there, you can feel it, it repels water and beads are still running a large size (1" dia.), but she drives it from garage (home) to garage (work).

Now, if we left it outside, it would have probably required another coat of carnauba 3 months later, where the polymer would have lasted longer.

Thus, the reason I use carnauba, its natural, it has essential oils that feed the finish, and I don't have to apply it all that often, 3 times a year max(though I'm betting I can go twice a year with the "Garage to Garage" environmental factor)

Guest84
03-21-2002, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by 31st330i
well, great thread. I bet we can beat it do death some more once I've had a chance to try it out for myself. ;) I only sent in my order the other day. I am hoping to be impressed but not counting on it.

I'm in the bay area as well. east bay, specifically.

Hey, I plan to give Zaino a try too, when I run out of my other products, I've used polymers in the past with great success, looking forward to testing Zaino out too, but not until I've scrapped the bottom of my P21S and Griots jar's dry. :D

GTI
03-21-2002, 02:50 PM
Just like to add my 2 cents.

1. It is perfectly OK to use your choice of clay bar. You don't need to use Zaino Clay with the Zaino polish system. In fact before you use Zaino it is perfect to have everything off your car surface(dirt/swirl/scratch/sap/tar/wax/polish/oil)
so what clay you use is not in the equation as long as it does the job.

2. Accomplished Zaino polish users can get 3 coats out of 1 oz. That is a well known amount to shot for if you search the Autopia forum. I am not at that level but after 6 coats of Z2 I still have 2/3 in the 8oz bottle. So I expect my Z2 bottle to last 18 coats at least. For me 18 coats will last 2 years or more.

3. People have been getting good results with using the Meg's Gold Class wash with Zaino. Remember to use Z7 wash right before you plan to put another coats of Zaino polish. It is fine.
Granted using Z7 wash does improve the slickness to some extends as it contains some traces of Zaino polish in it. Meg's gold class wash is considered a mild car soap.

Nat Brown
03-21-2002, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by GTI
2. Accomplished Zaino polish users can get 3 coats out of 1 oz. That is a well known amount to shot for if you search the Autopia forum. I am not at that level but after 6 coats of Z2 I still have 2/3 in the 8oz bottle. So I expect my Z2 bottle to last 18 coats at least. For me 18 coats will last 2 years or more.

This is an important point. When comparing products, ounce for ounce, how many ounces of carnauba wax do you need to wax a car compared to using Zaino?

--gary

31st330i
03-21-2002, 03:33 PM
actually, I don't think it's that big of an issue at all. I'm pretty sure that all of us over use our current wax or brand-X poymer.

the issue seems to be that using excess zaino causes more problems than overusing regular wax or other polymers. waxes and other polymers seem more tolerant to over-use.

while zaino may indeed turn out to be the best product I've ever used, I still maintain that the results people are getting have a lot more to do with following the application recommendations than people are willing to admit.

31st330i
03-21-2002, 06:58 PM
I thought I would add....

I chatted with Meguair's tech support (another great plus of using their products and they're even available on saturdays) and they told me the following:

1) medallion (which I've been using on my car since day 1) is a polymer/carnauba blend

2) their polymer (#20) and medallion will last the same amount of time.

3) they are well aware of zaino and claim that #20 and medallion will last as long as zaino or any other polymer.


on shine:
medallion and #20 are supposed to have the same longetivity but the shine is a little different with each one. before I even mentioned having a white car, he suggested that the #20 would provide a better shine for white paints. he has a white car himself and he uses #20.

BTW, meguiar's has their 800 number for tech support on the label of every product.

Intermezzo
03-21-2002, 10:37 PM
Hey GTI!, hi there. Now I know why you called me here. This forum feels like a Zaino battlefield! haha

For some reason, people either love the stuff or they hate the stuff.

Intermezzo
03-21-2002, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by 31st330i
I chatted with Meguair's tech support (another great plus of using their products and they're even available on saturdays) and they told me the following:

3) they are well aware of zaino and claim that #20 and medallion will last as long as zaino or any other polymer.


It's a good thing you got that info from an unbiased source! ;)

31st330i
03-21-2002, 11:04 PM
oh, you know me better than that. I posted that they told me so not that I believed it. ;)

Intermezzo
03-21-2002, 11:22 PM
It's a good thing you don't 'necessarily' believe them either. I didn't think much of the customer service reps at Meguiar's. I have a few e-mails they sent me which basically said, "I don't know the answer". On the phone, they fed me with so much BS, my dog started sniffing and peeing on me! hehe

I think Meguiar's makes good polishes and cleaners, but I don't care much for their wax or their 'knowledgeable' customer service reps. I plan to use their polishes from their Body Shop Professional line (Swirl Free Polish, DACP & Hand Polish), but as for Meguiar's waxes, I haven't found one that I like. I'll stick with Blitz, Souveran, & S100 (P21S).

fuz
03-21-2002, 11:38 PM
As a detail enthusiast, I dislike the majority of Meguiar's products as they are more difficult to use, and only provide above average results.

Since Meguiar is well in the median of "normal" waxes... well, you get what you pay for.

Stuff like P21S or Zaino is far and away more expensive for maybe that little extra shine, or better ease of use--but it's a pleasure to use. The same way that you get a BMW and not a Toyota with the same equiptment. It may be a lot more expensive, and not logical on paper, but the pleasure of driving a BMW just brings a much more satifying and rewarding experience.

Intermezzo
03-21-2002, 11:51 PM
Fuz, I agree. Products like Zaino, P21S, Klasse, Souveran are all very enjoyable. Souveran and P21S wipe on and off like a dream!!...to say nothing of the fantastic results! Klasse and Zaino are by far the best polymer sealants out there. I'm not going to quibble over a few bucks here and there and deprive myself of these products! :)

31st330i
03-22-2002, 12:12 AM
maybe I should cancel my zaino order then. If I enjoy it too much, my wife will get jelous. :rolleyes:

31st330i
03-22-2002, 12:15 AM
so will using zaino or the like be the male version of those clairol herbal essence commercials (where they spoof the oragsm in the restaurant scene from when harry met sally)?

Intermezzo
03-22-2002, 07:33 AM
Yup!, It's layerable, just like how the bottle says, "repeat"! lol

All kidding aside, you should just use what you feel the most comfortable with and get the best results. Individual results are always going to vary.

Guest84
03-22-2002, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by fuz
As a detail enthusiast, I dislike the majority of Meguiar's products as they are more difficult to use, and only provide above average results.

Since Meguiar is well in the median of "normal" waxes... well, you get what you pay for.

Stuff like P21S or Zaino is far and away more expensive for maybe that little extra shine, or better ease of use--but it's a pleasure to use. The same way that you get a BMW and not a Toyota with the same equiptment. It may be a lot more expensive, and not logical on paper, but the pleasure of driving a BMW just brings a much more satifying and rewarding experience.

Careful! Or Jon will sic E36M3(Meguiars rep) on ya like he did me when I posted displeasure on some Microfiber towels ;)
http://www.beemerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3200

Incidently, he never did folow up on sending me towels to try out. :dunno:

Intermezzo
03-22-2002, 09:15 AM
Ripsnort, I just read that post and it seems to contain some very good info. Yes, MF contains a polyester/polyamide blend. Furthermore, the level of quality varies dramatically among MF towels. The cheap ones lint. Also, the ones that leave marring on your protectant and clearcoat do not have that many fibers/sq inch and may have fibers that aren't 'split'.

However, doing the 'flame' test in MF does not apply because it isn't a question of whether or not it contains polyester. It DOES contain 70-80% polyester. No one denies that.

Here's a good link on MF towels:

MF Towels (http://store.yahoo.com/classic-motoring/micwhatbigde.html)

Keep in mind, this info was put together by a company selling MF's, so take everything with a grain of salt. :)

Nat Brown
03-22-2002, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by Intermezzo
Ripsnort, I just read that post and it seems to contain some very good info. Yes, MF contains a polyester/polyamide blend. Furthermore, the level of quality varies dramatically among MF towels. The cheap ones lint. Also, the ones that leave marring on your protectant and clearcoat do not have that many fibers/sq inch and may have fibers that aren't 'split'.


My new Griot's microfiber towels (item 11001) are linting horribly. It's a real pain to use Gloss Enhancer on the hood and find a bunch of fibers left over. The first time it happened I thought they were scratches....

--gary

http://www.griotsgarage.com/images/products/lg/11001_LG.jpg

Guest84
03-22-2002, 09:38 AM
rgr that intermezzo, I've got a full schedule detail coming up as soon as we get 2 straight days of no rain..hopefully sometime this month. Griots touts their MF towels as best..so I'm going to get the Macro lens out and photo graph results this time. I'll limit the experiment to one section of the car as to not induce potential swirls that the towels might create. I admit, I have not tried anything but Griots MF towels, but I did try their "Boars hair brush, best thing for your cars finish when washing" and it induces mega-swirls, they refunded my money after examining the car, and apparently are testing the $70 boars hair brush extensively now..anyway, more "testing" to do, Jet Black tells tales! :)

Guest84
03-22-2002, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by Nat Brown



My new Griot's microfiber towels (item 11001) are linting horribly. It's a real pain to use Gloss Enhancer on the hood and find a bunch of fibers left over. The first time it happened I thought they were scratches....

--gary

http://www.griotsgarage.com/images/products/lg/11001_LG.jpg

Exactly my findings, and I thought at the time they might be scratches! Therefore, further testing under the bright lights! :)

GTI
03-22-2002, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Intermezzo
Hey GTI!, hi there. Now I know why you called me here. This forum feels like a Zaino battlefield! haha

For some reason, people either love the stuff or they hate the stuff.

Intermezzo:
Glad you made it here. I think this forum is a pretty nice one. A lot of people here started out more mechnically inclined(thru the love of BMW performance and engineering) then gradually realized the need to detail their cars for paint protection and good look.
Glad we have people like you, Rip, Alee and others here to help raise the standard of detailing.

It is a pity that NONE of my friend realized the need to have a second bucket to rinse the mitts when washing. I don't want that to happen to our friends here who just spend $40K on a new car:dunno:

Intermezzo
03-22-2002, 06:15 PM
GTI, thanks for the very warm welcome. Raise the level of detailing?? c'mon, I've been here two days and I've learned a ton! :) Thanks for telling me about this place!

Ripsnort & Nat Brown, if you want to use an MF towel that doesn't lint, go to www.neatitems.com. I've tried many different brands of Mf towels, and for the price I think they have the very best (they don't lint at all!). Try to get the mint green terry MF's as they seem to be the most plush. But they also have a few other colors and this works well because it makes it easier to keep track of the towels that are used for polish removal, wax/sealant removal, and window cleaning. They even have MF suede towels which work well for window cleaning.

The Griot's towels got very poor reviews over at Autopia. People that tested them reported linting and also reported that they have almost no nap (or plushness).

The neatitems towels got raving reviews at Autopia. Every once in a while we have a group buy where you can purchase them for $3.50 each. Normally they are $6.95 each, but if you buy 5 they are $4.95, and if you buy 10 they are $4.45. Quite a deal considering the fact that shipping is free.

They also have bath sized MF towels which work very well for drying your car after a wash ($19.95 each).

The very best towels, IMO, are the Miracle towels sold at properautocare.com, but my wallet can't handle their steep price.

31st330i
03-22-2002, 06:33 PM
yeah, welcome aboard Intermezzo330i. thanks for your help over at autopia forums a while back. I finally ordered zaino.

Intermezzo
03-22-2002, 07:10 PM
Thanks 31st. :)

admac
03-31-2002, 11:29 PM
Originally posted by fuz
The only thing I don't like about Klasse, and why I chose Zaino over it, is that the SG is very difficult to remove, and takes a long time to dry.

fuz, to make klasse sg easier to take off, just spritz a little bit of quick detail spray on your microfiber towel. it comes straight off in one swipe. just did two layers on my m3 cab this weekend. :thumb: