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hayden
11-20-2009, 11:19 AM
"BMW 750Li enjoyable, no longer top of class"

Read Article Here (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091112/COL14/911120446/1014/BUSINESS01/BMW-750Li-no-longer-top-of-class&template=fullarticle)

BMR2009
11-20-2009, 03:21 PM
Mileage is poor, it is complicated, but the car is not meant for everyone. If you're not a techno guy, you won't appreciate the car. I don't have an S so can't comment on the differences. What I can say is that it has certainly maintained a sports car feel, allowing the driver to manuever an otherwise larger car easily. Nothing else drives like it, and nothing else feels as comfortable.

bcool
11-20-2009, 04:28 PM
Mileage is poor, it is complicated, but the car is not meant for everyone. If you're not a techno guy, you won't appreciate the car. I don't have an S so can't comment on the differences. What I can say is that it has certainly maintained a sports car feel, allowing the driver to manuever an otherwise larger car easily. Nothing else drives like it, and nothing else feels as comfortable.

This article is nonsense for sure. I had few S classes(non AMG). Have to admit smoother ride but if you want to be aggressive around corners...be careful lest you tip over(feels like it anyways). It is just not very tight around corners is how I always felt.

Trumpen
11-20-2009, 07:07 PM
This article is nonsense for sure. I had few S classes(non AMG). Have to admit smoother ride but if you want to be aggressive around corners...be careful lest you tip over(feels like it anyways). It is just not very tight around corners is how I always felt.

Just curious, which S-Class models did you have? The W221 (2007-2010+) or W220 (1999-2006)?

bcool
11-20-2009, 11:24 PM
Just curious, which S-Class models did you have? The W221 (2007-2010+) or W220 (1999-2006)?

Had 1998 S420, 1999 S500 and 2008 S550. I know they are they not the top performers but I have always felt BMW 7 series are more suited for aggressive drivers or those who like a more sporty feel. Don't get me wrong, Mercedes makes an awesome car especially S class.

asaseaban
11-20-2009, 11:57 PM
Sophisticated but complicated

So this is why BMW owners tend to be a bit ... shall we say, cocky? It must take enormous self-confidence to believe you'll ever figure out all the features baked into the new 750Li luxury sedan, a car so complicated it'd send a fighter pilot running for the owner's manual.

This sums it up for me. I like BMW because it's complicated, not boring, pack with technology that rival a space craft, flexible, interractive and FUN...just to mention a few. I laugh in my head when i give people ride and they just can't seem to find the door handle to close it until i say "it's the cubby hole up there." It's also fun when someone experience the "double-pump" action to exit the car. Ordinary cars don't do things like that and that's why BMW is an Extraordinary car which shouldn't be driven by ordinary people.

I always look forward to finding something new in a 7er. Eventually, i'll be able to figure out all the features baked into the car BUT that will signal it's time for the next techno-pack 7er.

I rode in someone 2004 745Li a while back and i was shock to see a Tomtom sitting infront of the iDrive screen. The only explanation was it was easy to use the Tomtom than to fiddle with the iDrive. The car was purchased CPO so no one ever gave the iDrive 101 lesson and this driver didn't even bother to take a few minutes to play with the iDrive and learn something new.

Well, i'm glad to say it took me 20 minutes (some people just don't like change) to make this driver a fan of the iDrive navigation and respectfully retire the Tomtom into the glove compartment. I even show the driver how to order the Navteq DVD update from their website or from a BMW dealership.

BMW, IMHO is not for everyone and not anyone can drive a BMW so i pay less mind and/or attention to those critics because it's obvious they will rather spend the extra money buying a Tomtom than to invest a few minutes to learn the technology that's baked into the car.

asaseaban
11-21-2009, 12:23 AM
Read the comments http://www.freep.com/comments/article/20091112/COL14/911120446/BMW-750Li-enjoyable-no-longer-top-of-class

I was LMAO especially the one from mbarrett635 (http://www.bimmerfest.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=pluckpersona&U=41c7466eb2f340638bdc624b6a2bc803)

malteseloever
11-22-2009, 06:51 PM
I have had the 2002 745Li, the 2007 M6, 2008M5, etc. I never had any problems using any of their iDrives or other electronics. In my opinion, the 2009 iDrive is already a "dumbed-down" version that requires me to look down onto the center console to find the appropriate buttons (radio, nav, etc). That is just stupid and dangerous when one is driving. The old system allowed you to get to those categories by just moving the iDrive knob to a particular direction without looking down. BMW has already made so many concessions to the "dumb" people who can't remember 4 directions on a knob. The reviewer just should not drive a BMW. Look at the new Panamera turbo. It has 100 buttons because they refused to use a mouse-like device. How is looking down to read the text on one of those 100 buttons while driving a better and safer way to operate a vehicle?

asaseaban
11-23-2009, 05:18 AM
I have had the 2002 745Li, the 2007 M6, 2008M5, etc. I never had any problems using any of their iDrives or other electronics. In my opinion, the 2009 iDrive is already a "dumbed-down" version that requires me to look down onto the center console to find the appropriate buttons (radio, nav, etc). That is just stupid and dangerous when one is driving. The old system allowed you to get to those categories by just moving the iDrive knob to a particular direction without looking down. BMW has already made so many concessions to the "dumb" people who can't remember 4 directions on a knob. The reviewer just should not drive a BMW. Look at the new Panamera turbo. It has 100 buttons because they refused to use a mouse-like device. How is looking down to read the text on one of those 100 buttons while driving a better and safer way to operate a vehicle?
+1 :thumbup:
BMW should have kept the 8-way menu (Communications, Computer Data, Navigation, Help, Entertainment, Settings, Climate Control, BMW Assist) iDrive knob selection. Atleast we'll have the option of either moving the iDrive knob to access the menus or looking down to select a button. I've just learn to memorise the button selection without looking down.

BMW ultimate goal is to sell cars so they'll "dumb-down" the technology to suit everyone. I just wish they'll have two technology packages for their cars;
(1) Basic - for those BMW owners/drivers that just want to drive a BMW. Something like the new iDrive with all the buttons should suffice for these demographic.

(2)Advanced - for those technical and computer savy BMW enthusiast that just want to do more than drive. They setting the car to their personal tast. They appreciate change and welcome the highest level of technology that can be incorporated into an automobile. And won't succumb to factory settings. I think the original iDrive that had everything incorporated into it (radio, navigation, a/c, etc...no BUTTONS but just the iDrive knob) and the upgraded operating system for the new iDrive will be perfect. Just the iDrive screen and the iDrive knob. Also, a lot functions can be accessed via voice command.

BMW Group DesignworksUSA is working on face recognition technology that will recognize BMW owners/drivers face and make the neccessary settings/adjustments (similar to what the Comfort Access remote key does but this time you don't have to carry a key)

At some point, i hope BMW will make a decision to either lead the pack (automobile industry) in terms of technology OR just try to "fit in" and focus on sales.

My $0.3.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=209548&stc=1&d=1258982206

rgbyhkr
11-23-2009, 05:38 AM
I'll throw in another vote as someone who picked a BMW because of the tech. When I looked around at what was offered by Lexus, MB, Audi, and even the upcoming new Jag XJ, I see BMW as the most aggressive. While there are little things that others do here and there, BMW is doing more in a wider variety of areas than most. Even though the look of the current 7 isn't my favorite, I will be taking delivery of it in a couple of weeks in no small part because of all the tech advances. Overall, there were just too many compromises with all the other cars I looked at.

The one thing I wish all the auto manufacturers would do is to make it easier for previous model years to be upgraded with new features. Hardware upgrades are a PITA and are therefore unlikely. But software upgrades? We need to get to a point where car systems can be updated with new features just like so many of our consumer electronic devices can. That's easier said than done given things like fixed hardware buttons, safety requirements, etc, but it can be done. Hopefully, we'll get there eventually. As a tech savvy user, I'd also appreciate being able to do these myself without having to make a service visit. From what I have read, some of the current software upgrades require full reprogramming that takes all day and requires re-initializing with authentication codes. It's a hassle and, as such, service centers don't want to do it - so customers don't get them unless they push hard or have some problem that warrants it. It shouldn't be this way - the upgrade process should be much, much more painless. Yes, you don't want a system where any owner can screw up, crash or cripple the computer and thus make the car unusable or at risk (safety issues are paramount, of course), but there should be a better way.

Jeff

graeboy
11-23-2009, 07:31 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

+1

esk
11-23-2009, 08:08 AM
Regarding the reviewer's comments:

I also own an Audi Q5 and Audi's system is no less or more complicated than BMW's. Frankly, each system is intuitive and easy to use with a few quirks.

I don't understand the "5 step process" to turn off the car. Don't you/shouldn't you put all cars in park before shutting them off? I also believe the car defaults to park if you forget to do so before shutting down. At first I thought pressing the stop button twice to shut down was an unnecessary step, but it's a nice feature to be able to continue a phone call or listen the radio in this "no idling" world we live in.

At first I didn't like the shifter. It seemed counterintuitive to put push the lever "forward" for reverse and pull the lever reverse for "forward." Now that I'm used to it, I like how the lever pops to the right if I've left it in sport mode. The angle and feel of the shifter is second to none.

I haven't checked the trunk space in an S or A8, but my 7 seems cavernous. As far as storage, I have no idea what he's talking about. I have 4 closed compartments - center console, glove box, above glove box (no cd changer) and next to the steering column.

As far as mileage, 1 or 2 mpg in the real world is nothing. I'm averaging about 16, which is what I expected. If I wanted more, I'd be driving something else.

More importantly, he praised the great engine and handling aspects of the car. There's no doubt about it that it is a truly amazing sedan. I love moving the shifter to sport and putting the suspension in sport mode + and having fun on the off ramps. Although, I guess paddle shifters would nice.

asaseaban
11-23-2009, 09:38 AM
The one thing I wish all the auto manufacturers would do is to make it easier for previous model years to be upgraded with new features.

I believe car manufacturers intentional go this route so people will keep buying newer cars. They like each MY to have something different that the previous MY didn't have; whether good or bad. For exampl, I was looking at a 2010 750Li and if it wasn't for the active/massage passenger seat i couldn't tell the difference between that and my 2009 750Li. 2002-2005 E65/66 (745i/Li) had the active/massage passenger seat. 2006-2008 E65/66 (750i/Li) didn't have the active/massage passenger. 2009 F01/F02 didn't have the active/massage passenger seat. 2010 F01/02 have the active/massage passenger seat. Someone will choose MY2010 over MY2009 because it has the active/massage passenger seat. We all like to think we have something that the other person don't have.


Hardware upgrades are a PITA and are therefore unlikely. But software upgrades? We need to get to a point where car systems can be updated with new features just like so many of our consumer electronic devices can.

This is why the concept behind the original iDrive was PERFECT! "...where BMW's typically button-heavy control layout gave way to an all-in-one system called iDrive that governed climate, audio and navigation functions via a single console-mounted dial and a central display." With one computer, one display and one knob it'll be easier to upgrade the software and gain more functionality without having to learn new buttons or requiring new buttons. This way we can even order the software and upgrade the computer (at our own risk) or tweak the software to our taste (This was possible in MKII, MKIII, and MKIV nav computers. However, if the computer crashes you end up paying up to $1600 for MKIII computers and up to $3800 for MKIV computer from the dealership.)
Having a software based system like the original iDrive makes it easier to introduce new features and options without having to worry about buttons and their functions. It's always difficult to upgrade hardware without any physical change.


As a tech savvy user, I'd also appreciate being able to do these myself without having to make a service visit.


I have to give BMW credit because they've given us more control than ever before on the F01/02. In my previous 740Li, 745Li, and 750Li i couldn't even change how the doors lock (unlock driver door or unlock all doors) I had to take it to the service dept for them to charge me and program the car so when i go over 15MPH all the doors will lock. Others resort to getting a dongle and a laptop and hacking into the car computer to make their own change(s). I remember upgrading the NAV OS on my 2001 740Li to v16 and just opening the door during the upgrade process crashes the NAV Computer. My 2003 745Li had a MKIV SVDO CD based navigation comptuer which require having 9 CDs for all 50 states. When i learn of the new MKIV SVDO DVD based navigation computer which required only 1 DVD for all 50 states, i bought the hardware and swap computers myself. I then upgraded the NAV OS to V32 without any issues and was able to use Perspective view for the first time.

BMW can still give us more control though :)


From what I have read, some of the current software upgrades require full reprogramming that takes all day and requires re-initializing with authentication codes.

If my memory serves me right (atleast that's what the SA told me), there're three major computers in the F01/02 that for whatever reason have to be upgraded at the same time. If one fails/crashes it affects the rest of the computers. Also, some of these BMW techs at the local service department don't have that much indepth knowledge of the new F01/F02 (apparently the Germans don't trust the Americans enough to share the inner workings of the new technologies behind the F01/F02) so when a computer crashes during an upgrade or reprogramming, a regional tech has to be called onsite to troubleshoot and resolve the problem. If the computer is dead, they'll have to order it from Germany, wait for it to be delivered and then take another shot which may or may not be successful so you can understand why SA are reluctant to do upgrades or reprogramming.

For what it's worth, i heard Tom Purves used to follow Bimmerfest.com...not sure about Jim O'Donnell...but hopefully someone close to BMW is watching us and taking notes...hehehehe

BMR2009
11-23-2009, 10:56 AM
It would be wise to listen to this board. I have not heard anything I totally disagree with yet.

Of all the issues brought up, the one that stands out the most as a surprise that BMW let go has to be the engine hesitation. BMW prides itself on creating incredible engines, and yet this "flaw" was allowed to get by them. Anyone who has ever owned a previous 7 WILL notice, and WILL comment on it. I would never have let this slide, even if it meant re-working the turbos or programming. A strange and SURPRISING oversight on BMW's behalf.

I can assure you, this problem WILL be solved. Still, a fantastic car.

asaseaban
11-23-2009, 02:37 PM
Interesting iDrive article by JSpira

http://www.bmwcca.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3088