Best 3-series for the money

[swchang]

The subject just about says it all. I'm wondering what 3-series you all think is the best bang for the buck? Like, for instance, several people have commented to me that the reason the Audi A4 1.8T is so popular is because even though the 3.0 is more powerful, it's just not worth the extra money. I know there are several styles of 3-series out there, so I guess I'm asking:

1) Which 3-series sedan is the best buy? and

2) Which 3-series overall is the best buy?

(PS I'm talking the most recent line, i.e. 2004 MY, or 2003 at the earliest.) :)

[bavarian19]

It sounds like you just need to take a trip to your local dealer and go on some test drives. Drive the coupe and the sedan, as well as driving the 330's vs the 325's. It really should be up to YOU to figure out whether its worth the money. some might say that the 325's have plenty of power, while others would not live without the 330's. Once you test drive, talk to the dealership about financing, and then you figure out what you want.

[edsmax]

The subject just about says it all. I'm wondering what 3-series you all think is the best bang for the buck? Like, for instance, several people have commented to me that the reason the Audi A4 1.8T is so popular is because even though the 3.0 is more powerful, it's just not worth the extra money. I know there are several styles of 3-series out there, so I guess I'm asking:

1) Which 3-series sedan is the best buy? and

2) Which 3-series overall is the best buy?

(PS I'm talking the most recent line, i.e. 2004 MY, or 2003 at the earliest.) :)


Like the other guy said, take the test drive. Alot of people like the 325 for power but then drive the 330 and can't live without it...
When you say "bang for the buck", are you referring to power or options? If its power, than go for the 330...unless you can afford/want a M3. When financing, the price difference isn't all that great between a 325 and a 330 IMHO....

Ed

[numbersguy]

The 325i sedan with stickshift is the best value at an MSRP of about $28,500 stripped. If you won't drive a stick then you should know that this car is a lot less lively when you spend another $1,275 on a Steptronic, although many people are perfectly happy with this setup. When you step up to the 330i for another six grand you get an engine that is strong enough to make up for the Steptronic and is seriously quick with the stick.

The main differences between these two cars are a longer stroke in the 330i motor (bore is the same) 1" larger brake rotors front and rear, stouter clutch on the 330i and (I read somewhere) a different vendor for the transmission. These things shouldn't add more than a few hundred bucks to the manufacturing cost but they enable BMW to charge a LOT more, and to folks who really want a 330i it's worth it.

The way I decided to go with a 325i was to test drive a used one. My local dealer didn't have any new ones with stickshift, and also I wanted to drive one that was fully broken in. That test drive was a blast and it sold me on the 325i.

[bluer1]

330 manual sport package.

IMHO, the M3 is grossly overpriced and underpowered - I wanted one, until I drove one.

[·clyde·]

Best bang for the buck is 325i with no options but SP

[numbersguy]

Forgot to mention: 325s outsell 330s by a wide margin and Steptronics outsell stickshifts by an even wider margin. I would guess that at least 80% of the 3 series sedans built are 325i with Steptronic. Maybe somebody who really knows can speak up.

What that means is that the 2.5l motor hooked to an automatic is the car that most folks know and love. Not many who post here will recommend this setup but millions of satisfied owners can't all be stupid, so you really should check one out for yourself.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

330 manual sport package.

IMHO, the M3 is grossly overpriced and underpowered - I wanted one, until I drove one.
That's exactly how I felt, except the opposite.

I drove the ZHP and was not impressed. It's just not that much different from the 325. The M3 is the first 3'er I've driven that really felt DIFFERENT. (Oh yeah, and the LSD is freaking NICE.)

The best deal is definitely a stripped 325 with SP.

Having driven all three, I'd say it's M3 or 325.

[SARAFIL]

Maybe somebody who really knows can speak up.


From my experience, a HUGE majority of BMW sold are automatics. Of cars available with manuals, many are ordered with auto.

Most dealers never order a X5 3.0i with stick for stock, for example.

Every once in a while, they'll order a 330xi with SP, PP, CWP and manual (a nice combo, those usually go very quickly), but otherwise they're always autos. 325xi's are all autos, with the exception of a few a year.

330i sedans are ordered with auto for stock, unless it is a ZHP or an occasional SP model. 325i sedans are often equipped in wierd ways-- most cars with 5 speeds are cheaper models, which means few options and usually no SP. Cars with SP usually have more options, including auto. There are usually more 325i SP ordered than 330i SP, on a percentage basis.

330Ci and 325Ci are more common than other models to have a stick, but there are still a majority of them built with auto.

Z4's are built roughly half and half.

525's and 530's are mostly autos, 540/545's are usually always auto, but they'll do 6-speeds alot as well.

[mickey513]

If you are going with the 325, might as well get a IS300. More HP, more options, and about same price.

[numbersguy]

If you are going with the 325, might as well get a IS300. More HP, more options, and about same price.

Based on the performance tests I've read it would seem that German ponies work a little bit harder than Japanese ponies.

[Matthew330Ci]

Forgot to mention: 325s outsell 330s by a wide margin and Steptronics outsell stickshifts by an even wider margin. I would guess that at least 80% of the 3 series sedans built are 325i with Steptronic. Maybe somebody who really knows can speak up.

What that means is that the 2.5l motor hooked to an automatic is the car that most folks know and love. Not many who post here will recommend this setup but millions of satisfied owners can't all be stupid, so you really should check one out for yourself.

real simple.

325 is the cheapest bmw, so more people buy that obviously.

lazy americans and 'badge buyers' would never buy stick shift, so they're almost all auto. it's sad that it's virtually impossible to find the 'ultimate driving machine' in stick shift unless you order one.

that's why 325/auto is the most common bmw out there, doesn't mean it's the best bang for the buck performance-wise. i'm sure it fits the needs of the badge buyers quite nicely.

[dlloyd1975]

Best bang for the buck is 325 with no options but SP (IMO). You'll probably get this vote a lot here.


And Euro Delivery. :D

[tgravo2]

white or black (save $475) 325i stick, with SP, or same 330i with SP

[racerdave]

My thought is that it's the 325i with manual trans and SP, like others have said. I do love the 330 manual, but I can't justify the extra $6K, which I will instead put into my son's college fund.

And the 325i with a stick is just about as quick as a 330 with Step. No, there's not as much torque.

But with the 5-speed stick and SP, the 325i does just about everything as well as a 330i Step... for a LOT less money.

So that's my vote. ;)

Now I just have to decide if BMW reliability is good enough in the 2004 325i for ownership of 6-10 years, or if I should go with the Lexus IS300, which I don't like *quite* as much as the 325, but is pretty bulletproof.

[tgravo2]

My thought is that it's the 325i with manual trans and SP, like others have said. I do love the 330 manual, but I can't justify the extra $6K, which I will instead put into my son's college fund.

And the 325i with a stick is just about as quick as a 330 with Step. No, there's not as much torque.

But with the 5-speed stick and SP, the 325i does just about everything as well as a 330i Step... for a LOT less money.

So that's my vote. ;)

Now I just have to decide if BMW reliability is good enough in the 2004 325i for ownership of 6-10 years, or if I should go with the Lexus IS300, which I don't like *quite* as much as the 325, but is pretty bulletproof.

if you go drive the 2, you probably won't get an IS :D

[glaws]

I too have driven everthing from 325/step - 330/5spd and the differences in these cars seem incremental from one to another. Until, as Nick says, you get to the M3. There is little in common with the M3 and the other 3'ers except outward appearance. The frame, suspension, tires, brakes, transmission and engine are all WAY different than the other 3 series cars. This translates into a very firm (some would say harsh) ride, considerably more noise inside the car and awesome acceleration and top speed.
The only comment that I would disagree with is bluer1's remark that the car is "underpowered". When I read that the only thing that came to mind is: "Compared to WHAT?"

[elbert]

The only comment that I would disagree with is bluer1's remark that the car is "underpowered". When I read that the only thing that came to mind is: "Compared to WHAT?"

Z06. But that's relatively speaking; the M3 is fast enough to get me into a *lot* of trouble. :bigpimp:

[elbert]

IMO,for the money , the best would be a 325 with a stick. Add whatever accoutrements (ie ZSP) within reason.

[glaws]

Z06. But that's relatively speaking; the M3 is fast enough to get me into a *lot* of trouble. :bigpimp:

Well yes, I believe the current Z06 has 400 HP compared to the M3's 333 HP. But even so the 0-60, skidpad and 1/4 mile numbers are VERY close to each other. What you have in the Z06, of course, is all that V8 grunt at lower RPM's that is lacking in the M3.

[dynosor]

It all depends what you drove before. If it was a particularly lively car, then the 325 may not be satisfactory, even if it is a "bargain".

I went shopping for a 325i and ended up with a 330i: I was not impressed with the 325i's acceleration on the highway when bogged down to 60 MPH unless I dropped to third gear. I tried the 330i and it was strong enough to negotiate traffic with confidence without constantly downshifting - the 330i pulls very impressively from 65 to 100+ MPH in 5th gear.

In my opinion 0-60 MPH is almost irrelevant, but you will keep hearing there is only a second difference between the 325 and 330. Unless you come from a torqueless car like a Honda, acceleration on the move without downshifting may be more important. My previous car, a GTi VR6 felt very lively on the move and the 325 could not match this.

Many have found the 325i adequate, then test driven a 330i and considered the 330 a must have: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30050&highlight=325i+good

Some complain that the price difference between the 325 and 330 is not justified, then ask why not get an M3. Yes, the E46 M3 is faster than the 330, but it is out of my price league and has a harsh ride more like a race car than a daily driver. Bottom line is the 330 was faster than what I had before by enough to impress me; the 325 was not...

[Fifty_Cent]

Plus, Lexus throws in the boy-racer look for no extra charge.
And it also throws the high speed instability problems at the IS series for no extra charge! :thumbdwn:
How can you even compare an IS300 with a BMW????
Not comparable(See much nicer machine the Bemmer is)

[racerdave]

if you go drive the 2, you probably won't get an IS :D

Tgravo,

Yes, I've driven them both. I like the 325 more. :)

These are the only reasons I'm considering the IS:

1) Toyota/Lexus reliability

2) a $390 Torsen LSD option

The reliability is really the BIG one.

Now help convince me the 325 will be as reliable, and I won't buy an IS. :)

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

The current iteration of the E46 has had all the kinks worked out.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

By and large, anyway.

[tgravo2]

Tgravo,

Yes, I've driven them both. I like the 325 more. :)

These are the only reasons I'm considering the IS:

1) Toyota/Lexus reliability

2) a $390 Torsen LSD option

The reliability is really the BIG one.

Now help convince me the 325 will be as reliable, and I won't buy an IS. :)

look at how many older bmw's are still being driven around. For the most part if you do what you are supposed to, the car will be good to you. :thumbup:

[racerdave]

Yeah, I know a guy who autocrosses his 89 325is and it's been pretty good to him, even though there has been some work needed due to how it's driven. But that's to be expected.

I definitely got spoiled with Toyota reliability in a previous car.

But you know, it *does* take owning a car to know if you'll ever get another one or not. For example, I *hate* my Ford, and will never get another.

So maybe I should give BMW the same chance. :)

Seriously, the E46 is still the benchmark others are trying to reach in terms of dynamics, feel, etc.

The inexpensive "factory" LSD option on the IS300 is attractive. It's like 3-4x less expensive than any "aftermarket" Torsen solutions available for the BMW.

[RCK]

Tgravo,

Yes, I've driven them both. I like the 325 more. :)

These are the only reasons I'm considering the IS:

1) Toyota/Lexus reliability

2) a $390 Torsen LSD option

The reliability is really the BIG one.

Now help convince me the 325 will be as reliable, and I won't buy an IS. :)

Just ask yourself this...Can I justify paying 32k+ for a toyota corolla type S with leather :eek:

[LMC]

The only comment that I would disagree with is bluer1's remark that the car is "underpowered". When I read that the only thing that came to mind is: "Compared to WHAT?"

Well...compared to a tin can over 4-6 sticks of dynamite, the M3 is real underpowered for about 0.1 sec...then catches up! :D

[AF]

And the 325i with a stick is just about as quick as a 330 with Step. No, there's not as much torque.

But with the 5-speed stick and SP, the 325i does just about everything as well as a 330i Step... for a LOT less money.

.

Under a microscope, the 330's extra torque even with a step is quicker then a 325 by about .4 seconds 0-60 and for the 325 to achieve the best acceleration, you've got to get the perfect launch or that time difference will increase.

Plus in everyday driving, the 330 step will be a lot quicker then the 325 stick, the Auto really only hurts the 330 off the line which is still pretty quick. Once the 330 is at 20 mph, I bet you it would be an even race versus a 330 manual or at the least, VERY close . . . My old 330CI Step was VERY fast even in comparison to my current 330i Manual though I do enjoy driving a stick more.


With that said, I still think a 325i sedan with SP and moonroof (gotta have one) is the best bang for the buck. It's slightly tighter feeling then the 325 Coupe and if I recall a drop lighter though I'm not positive about that.

[bluer1]

The only comment that I would disagree with is bluer1's remark that the car is "underpowered". When I read that the only thing that came to mind is: "Compared to WHAT?"

An E46 330.

The additional ~50 ft/lb.s just isn't enough to warrant M badging in my mind. I really wanted to like the new M3 but after saddle time in an E36 M3, I find the E46 M3 fell short of my expectations.

IMHO the E46 M3 should embarrassingly drop an E46 330, the fact that it doesn't disappoints.

I've always looked to the M3 to be the outright class leader, but the current influx of cars like the Z, Evo, and STi have upped the bar considerably. Don't believe me? Take your M-car to an autocross.

[tgravo2]

... For example, I *hate* my Ford, and will never get another...


:cry:

[wrwicky]

325i with a manny and the sport package.

I bought my car to keep for over ten years so I erred on the fast/nice/expensive side of the value equation. But if you can find a fairly "stripped" (no BMW in the US comes with manual windows etc, they're all luxurious) manual, you get so much fundamental quality and performance, and you only pay the same as any other 6 cyl premium compact.

If you're thinking about 330s/ZHP/HK/M3s remember it's almost always cheaper, and always more refined to buy the better car from the factory, than to try to mod your way to upgrades. People will post about I could get suspension for this amount and a stereo for that, but BMW sedans are decatheletes not specialists, and aftermarket stuff rarely has the versatility,refinement, integration or balance of factory equipment. It also will only hold resale value if you're willing to strip it back out of the car and flog it off here or at ebay, otherwise aftermarket accessories only factor in as a minus when I'm looking at road going cars. I knew I would want to bias my car heavily toward sport (mod it) so for me I was already spending the 330 ZHP money anyway, might as well get the sweet factory mods, rather than whatever I pieced together.

Last thing, I ordered my car and got it exactly the way I wanted it. I didn't get as good a "deal' that way, but I can't tell you how satisfying it is to walk out to that car everyday and have be just the way I like it. So give a lot of thought to that, especially if ED will work for you.

[sshuit]

Okay here's an even better deal. For us Canadians only of course.

320i Stripper comes in at $34,900 = $25900USD

You get a 2.2litre 6-cyl 168HP engine, MANUAL climate control.

Throw in your sport package for $2200CAD=$1600USD and you get 16" alloys, sport seats, sport suspension, heated seats, full size spare.


Or take that 1600$ and get a SSK/Sways/17"Alloys.

not bad at all
:thumbup:

[racerdave]

Hmm... I would think that car would feel slow with the weight of the E46. But that's a nice price!

[2004onyx330xi]

I definitely got spoiled with Toyota reliability in a previous car.

But you know, it *does* take owning a car to know if you'll ever get another one or not. For example, I *hate* my Ford, and will never get another.

So maybe I should give BMW the same chance. :)

Seriously, the E46 is still the benchmark others are trying to reach in terms of dynamics, feel, etc.
I'd have to give Toyota BIG props for reliability. My Wife's '94 Celica GT ran flawlessly for over 6 years, not one single problem...especially with me flogging it. Then we purchased a new '00 Lexus RX300. Again, not one single problem in almost 4 years of ownership. She yearned for the sportiness of her Celica but, she wanted the AWD security. After almost a year of consideration, we finally settled on an '04 330xi 6/spd, loaded except for the NAV system(due mid November). Niether of us was impressed with the 325xi's performance, or her with the 5-series V8's added size. The 330xi's added power seemed to fit the bill.
If BMW's long term reliabilty is anywhere close to Toyota/Lexus, I'd seriously consider an M3 over a Z06 to replace my aging Vette.

[car_for_mom]

The delegate from the Land Of Bovine Living will cast her vote for the 325i with stickshift, echoing the highly educated and erudite opinions previously expressed! :thumbup:

In a fit of insanity precipitated by my children (do a search :p ), I briefly (operative word: briefly) traded in Karl Bimmer for an automatic - the very next day, I was back at the dealer to get my car back - it cost me some serious cash, but was well worth it!

The automatic 325i, to moi, is waaaaaay underpowered, the manual 325i kicks butt. Of course, having been spoiled by the incomparable Jon Shafer (hi, Jon! :hi: ) and allowed to drive FlyingDutchMan's M3 (before he bought it :p ) around Santa Barbara for over an hour - well, what can I say? :bigpimp:

Returning to reality, for daily driving, especially in The Land Of Constant Traffic - the 325i fits the bill! I have 24,200+ miles and I've only had it 10 months! - hey, it's the Ultimate Driving Machine!

:thumbup:

[e46shift]

Best bang for the buck is 325 with no options but SP

:thumbup:

if i had to do it again i would get a red 325i stick w/sp.
2.5li is adequate enough , plus it gives you an excuse to shift more to keep it in the powerband. its smooth in every rpm.
plus 325i gets marked up less over invoice compared to other models since the factory produces it the most.

[JUSTACAR]

HI folks. I have been lurking for a few months and thought I would jump in. :)

I shopped for about a year before I bought my car. Test drove everything (well pretty much) that is available locally: 350Z, RSX, TSX, CL, WRX, 325's, 330's, Z3's, SI's, C230, GTI VR6, IS300, etc. I am over 40, 6', 190lbs & really wanted a coupe (don't need rear passengers), wanted something fun and I was a cash buyer and could buy 325, 330 even M3 but I am frugal (GF says cheap :dunno: ).

I found most of the cars commendable but nothing, including the IS300 and 350Z drove with the aplumb of the 3er. Leaning toward a 330ci MT but having a bit of gas over the $6k price difference I decided to take the 325 and 330 for back to back drives and avoid the "go fast areas" where I normally took the cars. Instead I drove them pretty much how I would in every day use. Basically I found out that the 325 was quick enough and the roll on at highway speed was more than adequate. So I figured if I was going to go cheap er..uh...frugal on the purchase I would go all the way. I ordered a 2004 Steel Blue 325ci, MT, black ette, HK (which I am really pleased with) and SP (gotta love those seats) and that is it. I placed the order in early June (local dealers were out of MY 2003 by that time) and picked it up about two weeks ago. 800 miles later I am :freakdanc .

Nice car, gets lots of positive comments and it was a deal at $31,300 with mats & alarm ($150 doc fee and nothing else but taxes). I did have to pick it up at a dealer about 300 miles away.

By the way took the highspeed elevated ramp that I like at about 80 yesterday in the 325. Did that a few months ago in an IS300 at about 70 and about lost it-took the demo back to the dealer right after that and did not consider buying one. It was as scary at limits as my Triumph.

[paulg]

From my experience, a HUGE majority of BMW sold are automatics. Of cars available with manuals, many are ordered with auto.

Most dealers never order a X5 3.0i with stick for stock, for example.

Every once in a while, they'll order a 330xi with SP, PP, CWP and manual (a nice combo, those usually go very quickly), but otherwise they're always autos. 325xi's are all autos, with the exception of a few a year.

330i sedans are ordered with auto for stock, unless it is a ZHP or an occasional SP model. 325i sedans are often equipped in wierd ways-- most cars with 5 speeds are cheaper models, which means few options and usually no SP. Cars with SP usually have more options, including auto. There are usually more 325i SP ordered than 330i SP, on a percentage basis.

330Ci and 325Ci are more common than other models to have a stick, but there are still a majority of them built with auto.

Z4's are built roughly half and half.

525's and 530's are mostly autos, 540/545's are usually always auto, but they'll do 6-speeds alot as well.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drowning in the alphabet soup.

What does SP, PP, CWP, and ZHP mean?

Thanks.

P.

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

SP=Sports Package
PP=Premium Package
CWP=Cold Weather Package
ZHP=High Performance Package

[TGD]

If you were in Europe I'd say that the best value 3-series would be the 320i: 4cyl, 2.2lt, valvetronic and manual of cource.

[akbmw81]

Since you didn't specify what you really wanted all I can say is that looking at the leftover 2003 3 series would be the best bang for your buck...

[andy_thomas]

330 manual sport package.

IMHO, the M3 is grossly overpriced and underpowered - I wanted one, until I drove one.

Underpowered? Ha ha ha :)

[andy_thomas]

If you were in Europe I'd say that the best value 3-series would be the 320i: 4cyl, 2.2lt, valvetronic and manual of cource.

318i.

320i is a 2.2 six, a bit like the 2.5. Lovely revver, but not a lot of torque.

The Valvetronics are probably the best "value" (how do you define value?). They feature newer technology than the sixes, are lighter in the front end so handle a bit sharper, and are lower margin. BMW makes most of its money on the loaded 325s/330s, M3s and coupe/cab/touring bodystyles, so you could say a plain-jane 318i is the best "value" because BMW doesn't make a lot of money out of it :).

[glaws]

Underpowered? Ha ha ha :)

Yeah, I started to reply to that, but evidently his "butt dyno" has had the last word here. Actually, the M3 is what I call SneakyFast. It doesn't have the low end torque that a Z06 has - but it's hard to argue with numbers like 0-60 in 4.8 sec. and 1/4 mile's in the low 13's with a trap speed of 107 for the M3.
I was coming back from San Francisco a while back on I40 in the desert when I came on a
:mad: SUV in the left lane puttering along at 60. I waited until I had a decent opening in the right lane, downshifted to 4th and passed. When I got back in the left lane I looked down and I was doing a little over 115 MPH :yikes: No muss, no fuss.

[e46shift]

What do you have now?
325ci.
4dr is cheaper and offers the same performance making it a better bargain.

[Fuzzypuppy]

the Mitsubishi Evo8 or the Subaru STi :rolleyes:

http://www.edmunds.com/media/2002/paris/subaru/subaru.imprezza.sti.f34.500.jpg

Subaru... hehehehe..hehehehehe...hehehehehe.

[Fuzzypuppy]

1) Which 3-series sedan is the best buy? and

2) Which 3-series overall is the best buy?

Sedan: 330i, either ZSP or ZHP, both work well on bang for buck.

Overall: Unquestionably the M3.

The only question is whether or not you want to spend the money for an M3, not whether it's the best bang-for-buck.

[andy_thomas]

Yeah, I started to reply to that, but evidently his "butt dyno" has had the last word here. Actually, the M3 is what I call SneakyFast. It doesn't have the low end torque that a Z06 has - but it's hard to argue with numbers like 0-60 in 4.8 sec. and 1/4 mile's in the low 13's with a trap speed of 107 for the M3.
I was coming back from San Francisco a while back on I40 in the desert when I came on a
:mad: SUV in the left lane puttering along at 60. I waited until I had a decent opening in the right lane, downshifted to 4th and passed. When I got back in the left lane I looked down and I was doing a little over 115 MPH :yikes: No muss, no fuss.

Well, it was a bit like saying the Ferrari 360 is underpowered.

The M3 will feel "underpowered" if you don't appreciate the need to rev to 8,000 rpm - a speed which will have the Z06's motor showering hot metal. If you're used to 5.7 litre American V8s with bags of torque and a 6-something ceiling, a 3.2 litre revving to 8 will take some time getting used to.

Having said that, the M3 could have been quicker had BMW resisted the (probably quite rational) urge to kit it out like a gin palace. The M3 CSL shows that not a lot of straight-line performance can be gained from stripping out lots of weight, but the diet has transformed the car's handling to the point where it makes a real - yet much cheaper - alternative to the 911 GT3.

[Jay]

Which 3-series overall is the best buy?


I would say the current two-door 325 with 5-speed is a pretty fun car for the price. I would take mine in flat red paint - not sure what the name of the paint is. Nobody goes for the red one, at least out east, and I'm not sure why.

The only caveat is that the 2.5L engine really is "torque free", although it is fun to run through the rev range and it is easy to do so since the cranktrain is so low in inertia. It is a very smooth engine.

Jay

[Jay]

Steptronics outsell stickshifts

What that means is that the 2.5l motor hooked to an automatic is the car that most folks know and love

... millions of satisfied owners can't all be stupid

"Millions" is an exaggeration since the combination of small gasoline engine and automatic transmission in a 3-series is a U.S. market phenomenon.

U.S. buyers tend to take the automatic regardless of how good or bad it is. Just because the car sells in the States with an automatic doesn't mean that it is a good automatic transmission, or a good powertrain combination, for that matter.

Jay

[Jay]

Just ask yourself this...Can I justify paying 32k+ for a toyota corolla type S with leather :eek:

This would not be a logical question to ask, since the IS is a totally different car than the Corolla. They don't even drive the same ends.

Jay

[swchang]

Thanks for the responses. Interesting how BMW owners seem to prefer all sorts of 3-series, whereas Audi owners pretty much prefer that one model (1.8T). [I haven't actually read the Audi forums, but I've just noticed that from personal observation on the street.]

[sshuit]

The 1.8T is ridiculously easy to massage with turbo/exhaust/chip upgrades to much faster than the 3.0 or 2.8 non turbo.

For me it would be a no-brainer to go with the 1.8T

Thanks for the responses. Interesting how BMW owners seem to prefer all sorts of 3-series, whereas Audi owners pretty much prefer that one model (1.8T). [I haven't actually read the Audi forums, but I've just noticed that from personal observation on the street.]

[RCK]

This would not be a logical question to ask, since the IS is a totally different car than the Corolla. They don't even drive the same ends.

Jay

I was just joking around :tsk:

[racerdave]

SWchang,

I think the reason behind the Audi being that way is that the 1.8T torque curve and feel isn't drastically different than the 3.0. The 1.8 is pretty torquey for a small turbo engine, so the "feeling" of thrust isn't hugely better in the 3.0, plus you can easily chip the 1.8T to get more boost and HP, and get that performance cheaper than you could by going to the 3.0.

The 325 and 330 are different in that respect because they are both normally aspirated, and displacement brings its obvious (and only) advantages it this case. So the feeling between the engines is a little more pronounced. And cranking extra performance into the 325 is not a simple chip mod to crank up more boost, etc, like on a turbo motor.

That said, as far as the 3-series goes, they're *all* good. Some are just better than others for different reasons, from person to person.:)

[Ashe too]

I've got a MY '02 325 w/ SP, PP, HK, BiXenons, leather. Love it. Awsome value - really hard to beat the value. Fun to drive. Handling is simply sublime. Not a single complaint.

But...I recently drove a MY '03 330 w/ ZHP and was damn near giggling with delight. About 1.5 seconds faster to 60 - and you can really feel it - more power in the upper rev range, slick short throw 6 speed.... I could go on but I won't. Plus, even if they sell like hotcakes, the ZHP will be a relatively rare car. I'd spring for the 330 ZHP. In fact, I think I might.

[The Roadstergal]

Ahem - y'all are taking it as read that only E46s are under consideration? :neener:

[glaws]

Ahem - y'all are taking it as read that only E46s are under consideration? :neener:

I think we are assuming that the poster is not willing to spend as many hours as you have to Resurrect your elderly 325 from it's near-death condition.
:stickpoke

[brentsg]

Count me into the camp that drove a 325i and liked it. It seemed "fine" in the power category but was excellent in handling, etc. It was equipped with the Sport Package.

Then I test drove a 330i and LOVED IT. It bumped the power from "fine" to "FUN"!

I ended up buying a 2003 330i with auto, premium, sport, CWP, xenons, and the parking sensors. It's an awesome car.

I also drove the IS300. I like it for the price, but I didn't drive it extensively. I did ask them about dealer maintence for the first 50K miles and it totaled to ~$2200 or so. I thought that hurt the total price a bit.

B

[The Roadstergal]

I think we are assuming that the poster is not willing to spend as many hours as you have to Resurrect your elderly 325 from it's near-death condition.
:stickpoke

Hey, I knew I was buying a project... :eeps:

[wookiehoth]

This is a copy of what I wrote for another Forum when a dude asked about getting a 330ci vs an M3:

================================================== =
My main reason for getting a 330 Ci rather than an M3 is $$$.

(1) I have a less-than-stellar driving record and the difference in insurance premium is a significant number
(2) Comparably equipped (performance improvements aside, more on that later) 330 Ci is about $12,000 less than an M3, which is about 25 % or 20 % depending on your denominator. Yes, M3 has 50 % more horsepower over 330 Ci so if you do a doller per HP, then 330 Ci is about $182/hp and an M3 is about $156/hp, an obvious advantage to M3. But FOR ME, I hardly ever go above 4,500 rpm. At that point, 330 is developing about 161 HP ($248 /hp) and M3 is developing about 170 ($305 /hp), that price per HP advantage then disappears. The big 50% advantage also shrinks down to less than 10%. Furthermore, if you compare the cost per ft-lb of MAXIMUM torque then 330 Ci is abour $190 per ft-lb and M3 is about $200 per ft-lb. So my point is that given my uses for the car (AGAIN, FOR ME), not only is 330 Ci more economical, its deficiencies in performances are also minimal.

Having said all that, in the back of my mind, I do have a couple points of regrets:

(1) That quad-exhausts on the M3 and the side gills look absolutely fabulous and I would love to figure out how to get them on my car without a significant cost

(2) The M3's ride and handling quality is noticeably better than that of 330 Ci, as I found out from my friend's E46 M3.

And I will bet you that if I spend money to address these two items, so that it's up to the E46 M3's standard, that will easily raise the cost of 330 Ci to about $5,000 (or fewer) lower than M3. So we are no longer talking about $40,000 vs $52,000 but $45,000 vs $52,000 and my economical cost analysis for 330 Ci above then becomes:

(0) dollar per max hp $204

(1) dollar per wookie hp $279

(2) dollar per fr-lb torque $214

and the figures for M3 stays the same.

BUT, do I have the extra $5,000 to do the mod or $12,000 needed to do the out-right purchase of an M3 ? That's a question you gotta ask yourself. In my case, let's just say that I am cheap.


__________________

[j2]

Yet another vote for the 325 sedan here. I have an '03 325i 5MT Sport, Moonroof, Xenons, HK and black 'ette. Certainly the finest car I've ever owned, a true joy to drive.

[adgrant]

Back in 95 when I bought my first BMW (a black 325is Coupe), the 325 was the big engine (aside from the M3 of course). Power was ample, I received my first speeding ticket less than 24 hours after picking up the car. A year later I had added a couple more. The engine in the current 325 has almost the same power, though the E46 is a little heavier.

My 95 was a stick shift but I am now married and my wife cannot drive stick (and no I am not going to teach her, it would only end in tears), so we have an 01 325xiT with a steptronic and we will soon have an 04 325xi also with steptronic (once it escapes the VPC twilight zone). If I need to accelerate quickly I find pulling the shifter across to sport normally works great. If I need more go, I just pull the stick back a couple of times which always works. However, I live near NYC, so the car is normally stuck in slow moving traffic with the shifter in D.

I could certainly afford the 330, but I would rather spend the extra money on four wheel drive and the NAV system. I feel that knowing exactly where I am going gets me where I am want to be much more quickly than a bigger engine would. The 4WD is for the last hundred yards of my winter commute (my unpaved driveway which is always covered in snow and/or ice during the winter).

I think that the main appeal of a BMW isn't BHP or engine displacement. It is the smooth engine and balanced handling and most importantly the excellent brakes. I believe that they still sell four cylinder BMWs in Europe and plenty of people buy the 525.

[missing23]

[QUOTE=Nick325xiT 5spd]I drove the ZHP and was not impressed. It's just not that much different from the 325. QUOTE]


Dude, are you whacked? I know you drive a 325 and are a fan of it by default but there is a WORLD of engine difference between the 325 and the 330 ZHP or no ZHP. A 325 in the low end is an absolute DOG compared to the 330. The 325 might be a better buy but for people with the cash the 330 is a no brainer.

[racerdave]

Yeah, can't say I've driven a ZHP (don't want to be that tempted! :) ), but the 330 manual is a LOT more flexible engine than the 325. It simply feels like the larger engine that it is... better grunt everywhere.

To me, the 3.0 really fits the nature of the E46's handling, feel, braking. The chassis is so capable, and the 3.0 really feels like it completes the package.

Now, that said, the 2.5 is quite flexible itself for a 2.5 in that the Vanos really does a great job providing torque at all points in the rev curve. The 3.0 just offers more. But even though I *like* the extra power, I don't *need* it every day. The 325 is fast enough to keep the speeding tickets rolling in if you're not careful.

So I will go with the 325i. Although I love the flexibility of the 3.0 and would prefer it on a daily basis, the 6k difference is more than I want to spend. I can afford it, but choose not to... because I really think, as I posted early in this thread, that the 325i really is a better buy.

And it sure beats the h*ll out of driving an Accord or something similarly bland! :thumbup:

[missing23]

Yeah, can't say I've driven a ZHP (don't want to be that tempted! :) ), but the 330 manual is a LOT more flexible engine than the 325. It simply feels like the larger engine that it is... better grunt everywhere.

To me, the 3.0 really fits the nature of the E46's handling, feel, braking. The chassis is so capable, and the 3.0 really feels like it completes the package.

Now, that said, the 2.5 is quite flexible itself for a 2.5 in that the Vanos really does a great job providing torque at all points in the rev curve. The 3.0 just offers more. But even though I *like* the extra power, I don't *need* it every day. The 325 is fast enough to keep the speeding tickets rolling in if you're not careful.

So I will go with the 325i. Although I love the flexibility of the 3.0 and would prefer it on a daily basis, the 6k difference is more than I want to spend. I can afford it, but choose not to... because I really think, as I posted early in this thread, that the 325i really is a better buy.

And it sure beats the h*ll out of driving an Accord or something similarly bland! :thumbup:

Good thoughts...I convinced myself of basically the same thing a few years ago and went with lower engine power and personally really regretted it...because when you really do want/need the engine power it is not there and I started thinking what if I would have gotten the bigger engine?...if you are the kind of person to not second guess you are probably fine...but if you are the extra few K is really a small price to pay, in fact you probably won't even remember!

[RKT BMR]

Based on the performance tests I've read it would seem that German ponies work a little bit harder than Japanese ponies.Different breeding stock.

Japanese ponies are from farm workhorse bloodlines. German ponies come exclusively from triple-crown racing bloodlines :D

[euroPower]

If you have the money, just get the 330. However, if you want to a lot of power, the 5k you saved between 330 and 325 can get u a real nice supercharger :thumbup: