Gary : I need some wheels/tires for the track

[Andy]

Hi Gary,

I’m wanting to purchase a set of wheels and tires for my 2003 330i ZHP for track use only (autocross). I’m looking at the following set of wheels and tires…

Wheels:

- (2 fronts) 18 x 8.5 SSR Competition Anthracite w/Mach Lip ($449 each)
- (2 rears) 18 x 9 SSR Competition Anthracite w/Mach Lip ($459 each)

Tires:

- (2 fronts) Kumho Ecsta V700 225/40WR18 Blackwall Heat Cycled ($190 each)
- (2 rears) Kumho Ecsta V700 265/35WR18 Blackwall Heat Cycled ($200 each)

http://www.tirerack.com/images/wheels/ssr/swap/ssr_competition_ci3_l.jpg http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/kumho/ku_ecsta_v700.jpg

Questions:

1. Will these wheels fit my car? I assume they will based on the information from your website, it’s just that my car came stock with 18 x 8 in the front and 18 x 8.5 in the rear.

2. Will these tires fit these wheels, 225s on 8.5" wheels and 265s on 9" wheels?

3. These are some super light wheels (fronts = 16.5 lbs and rears = 17.2 lbs). Do you think I’ll have any problems with bent wheels if I use them strictly for track use? I’ve heard these wheels have a tendency to bend pretty easy.

4. It appears you have these wheels in stock, but the tires are not (at least that’s what the website tells me). If I place an order today would it be possible to have the wheels and tires before this weekend (10/11)?

Thanks,
Andy

[Gary@Tirerack]

The wheels will fit the car, and the tires will fit on the wheels. 265/35R18, however, is very aggressive and may require modification to fit. The wheels are instock, but the tires are not estimated to be back in stock for about 6/8 weeks.

We sell hundreds of Comps a year for track usage and see very few come back bent. Many of the reports have been either repeats of the same person posting, or someone "hearing" about bent wheels. Many employees here at the Rack run these wheels on their own vehicles.

See this post for more info about the strength of SSR wheels :


All of the wheels SSR makes either exceed the Japanese (JWL/via) or German (tuv) testing authority standards. They exceed US DOT standards by a considerable margin.

SSR does extensive testing on random production samples to ensure consistent high quality. They X-Ray test every wheel they produce to check for hidden structural problems. The material for the wheel is delivered to the mold as a cylindrical billet of aluminum alloy. All billets are made from a precise alloy formed in a specific process that aligns the material in a spiral pattern. The weight of the billet is specific to the wheel being formed. The alloy is heated to a specific temperature and forged to the basic wheel shape. SSR then machines the wheel to specific applications. They optimize the machining so that they wheel meets the load requirements of the vehicle using the least amount of material.

We have found that SSR does as much if not more specific vehicle application design work as any wheel manufacturer we represent.

As always you can see pics and pricing at :

http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AB2&url=/wheels/index.jsp

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Just remember that those wheels are illegal in BS.

But if you're running in whatever class the prepared class the ZHP goes in, that's obviously not an issue. In all seriousness, if you're not going to match the stock sizes, you probably ought to get 17" wheels. The savings in tire costs and the expanded selection of tires would be VERY helpful.

[SpaceMonkey]

I'd second Nick's recommendation. In fact, I'd recommend a NONE STAGGERED setup if you could get it. 17" x 8" or 17" x 8.5" on 235/40/17's all around would probably be the most optimum setup, considering you're running R comps.

The car doesn't make enough HP to break traction of R comps in the rear, thus staggered setup is a waste of $$$ and performance. You can even try 245/40/17s although most likely that will rub at the extremes of suspension compression.
Ditto. You absolutely should go with 17" wheels. And I also agree with Hack, that a non-staggered set up is the way to go. I went with 235/40/17 on 17x8" wheels.

Personally I also wouldn't suggest getting R comps until you've had a lot more experience. At least a full season or two. :dunno:

[Andy]

Thanks guys for the info, but I thought this staggered setup would be legal in the B-Stock class... finding the right wheel/tire combo is starting to drive me crazy.

Can any of you guys help me find a good wheel/tire combo that will meet the stock requirements (18 x 8 in the front and 18 x 8.5 in the rear)? I'm looking for a light weight wheel, sticky R compound tires and easy on the pocket book.

Since I am new to autocrossing, I know that most of my time will be improved by experience, but I am looking for all of the help I can get, like some good sticky tires. I've got to compete against an S2000 and a 350Z this weekend!! A 350Z vs my 330i!?!?!? Yeah, like that's fair!!

[Nick325xiT 5spd]

Because the ZHP is classed differently from the regular 330i, therefore you have to run wheels in the stock 18" size.

That said, seriously consider running a season on street tires.

[bluer1]

You could always get nice wheels for the street and use the stockers for track duty.

One of our local "fast guys" runs E46 wheels with R-comps on his E36 M3. I'd imagine he got a bargain on them and they certainly don't slow him down.

[nate]

Why on earth would you want 265s on the rear? understeer...understeer...understeer...

And, you have gone to how many auto-x events? Drive at least a season on street tires...

[SpaceMonkey]

Why on earth would you want 265s on the rear? understeer...understeer...understeer...

And, you have gone to how many auto-x events? Drive at least a season on street tires...
He's gone to one event I believe.

Andy, in an autocross, I'd say 90% of it is drivers skill. NOT the car, or how it's set up. A good driver in a Neon can easily beat someone in an M3 or even a Viper.

You'll become a better driver quicker if you try at least one full season on street tires. I wouldn't be so hung up on being at the top of your class instantaneously, especially by modding you car. Just go and have fun, and get as much seat time as possible.

[Raffi]

Andy, you can get the SSRs in 18x8 F and 18x8.5 R, but run 235/40s all around. You can definitely have staggered wheel sizes, as apparently required by the autocross rules, but run non-staggered tire sizes. With 225s F and 265s R, your car will understeer like a pig. Also, run a season with street tires, then move to R-comps. Don't jump ahead of yourself thinking that the R-comps will improve your autocross times and compensate your lack of experience. Just go out there to have fun and learn, not just to be super-competitive from day one. :thumbup:

[Pinecone]

Problem is, finding a 235/40-18 R-comp.

Hosier has a 245 that many people have crammed onto an 8 inch rim.

Also remember, not only do the sizes have to be the same as stock, but the offsets have to be within 1/4" (6.35 mm) of stock. So look carefully at any aftermarket wheels.

OZ Supper Leggera are a nice light wheel. They almost work for an E46 M3 in Stock class autoX, except the fronts are about 0.65 mm too little offset. Some people have had them cut about 0.75 - 1 mm to make them legal. Not sure if they have a 8.5 inch rim.

[·clyde·]

R comps are most likely to only discourage you. They won't give you the same warning and feedback as street tires as you approach their limits. Instead of feeling and hearing it as you get close, you'll just blow right past them and slide away from where you want to be. They are really only usefull once you're capable of getting almost every last bit from street tires. You'll know that you've gotten to that point when you start beating experienced drivers riding on R comps in your class. Based on your descriptions of your autox experience, IMO, you would just be wasting your money on going to R comps at this stage.

If you are intent on getting a second set of wheels, I would suggest that you get the lightest/strongest/cheapest class legal wheels you can find and putting on the most aggressive non-staggered non-R comp tires that you can. You will most likely learn and improve faster with them than you would with R comps. They should last longer than R comps (important as you understeer your way through your first full season).

[Andy]

Hey guys I really appreciate all of your advise and your advise will be well taken. I didn't realize that autocross was 90% driver, I figured it would be more like 50% driver and 50% car (maybe it's more like that in road racing). I will take your advise and hold off on the wheels and tires for now, run the rest of this season (3 more) and all of next season with my stock wheels and tires. That will be a lot easier on my pocket book for sure, plus beating the guys running the R compounds will feel pretty good.

Here were the results from my first autocross on 9/14. That's not too bad for a newbie, right? I'm pretty sure everyone in my class was running R compounds (I checked).

T1 Jeff Robinson 45.20944.37743.62244.17943.226 43.0
T2 John Souder 44.95544.50244.21544.46144.197 44.0
T3 jason Tipple 47.02346.00645.76745.24344.661 44.0
T4 Brian Jenning 46.31946.03645.75647.38445.661 45.9
5 Daniel Griewi 49.17148.51748.38647.82546.184 46.8
6 Andy (me) 47.41148.37747.85147.75746.770 46.6
7 Jim Emert 52.70449.77148.72148.07747.366 47.5
8 Peter Bates * 49.63548.99349.00547.62649.421 47.5
9 David Lamp *N 55.72549.20748.10150.58548.620 48.5
0 James Stewart 49.80450.41650.455DNF 49.5

[·clyde·]

1 Jeff Robinson 43.226

6 Andy 46.770


I am assuming that Jeff Robinson is the same one that I found listed in the 2002 Solo II National CHampionships and from the 2003 Ohio National Tour (in a white Integra Type-R). His results are mid-pack in class at those levels, which is nothing to sneeze at. If it's the same guy, you're off to a really good start.

The caveat is that they put you in D Stock and you should have been in B Stock (which is typically a little faster). Still, that's an impressive showing for the first time out.

If you want a useless prediction, I'd wager R comps would be useful to you before the end of next year. However, sticking it out on streets through all of next year will still help you learn and that's experience that should pay even bigger rewards if you switch to Rs the year after that.

[Andy]

Clyde,

Yep, that's the same Jeff Robinson, he was running a white Integra Type-R. That boy was fast!! Yeah, they stuck me in that wrong class, they put me in D-Stock, when I should have been in B-Stock. It was my fault, I told the guy at registration that I was driving a BMW 330i and didn't realize I should have told him "w/ Performance Package". Nobody complained so I hope I didn't piss anyone off, it was an honest mistake on my part.

I felt pretty good about my times until I looked at the times for B-Stock (my REAL class). I would of gotten smoked in that class. Here are the results from the B-Stock class at the same event.

T1 Dennis Cox 43.37344.96242.91643.17543.180 42.0
T2 1Victor Woo DNF 46.59946.36145.14444.390 44.9
T3 Nate Ellis 47.35945.54347.12546.49244.536 44.6
4 Rich Scotti DNF DNF DNF 47.75044.653 44.4
5 Lee Fraar DNF 45.60945.32747.99644.794 44.1
6 Adam Hinzey DNF 47.23147.91647.03246.325 46.9
7 Joe Duda DNF 47.59147.141DNF 46.559 46.5

Looks like I'm going to have my work cut out for me this weekend!!

[·clyde·]

1 Dennis Cox 42.916
Looks like I'm going to have my work cut out for me this weekend!!

Only being ~8% off the pace of the class leader at your first event is pretty damn good.

[Andy]

Thanks Clyde. I'm really looking forward to this weekend. I'll be sure to let you all know how I do. I plan on having my wife take a few pictures and maybe even some video clips that I will post here as well. :thumbup:

[Pinecone]

Just about EVERY sport is 90% person, 10% equipment.

Michael Schumacher could beat you at the track running a clapped out E30 325e and you in a M3. :)

But most people spend 90% of their time and money on equipment, and only 10% on themselves.

If you increase the performance of the equipment 10%, you change your overall performance by only 1%. If you change YOUR performance by 10% you increase the overall performance by about 9%.

This applies to golf, tennis, shooting, driving, etc. Only the top people can make use of the difference between the best and the so-so equipment.

[TeamM3]

ran across this and feel compelled to clear up a few misconceptions:

with regard to the SCCA Solo2 Stock rules, the 330ZHP has to run the 18 x 8/8.5 wheel setup because they are the only size available from the factory with that option. It has nothing to do with what class it is listed in. Even if it was in the same class as the 330i it would still have to run those sizes.

SSR makes 18 x 8 and 18 x 8.5 sizes, but to the best of my knowledge not in the same model/style wheel. You would have to run one style on the front axle and another style on the rear axle. You also have to be concerned with more than just size. The Stock rules have a wheel offset tolerance of +/- 1/4" (6mm) within OE. This means you have to be able to get an 18 x 8 wheel with an offset between 41mm - 53mm and the 18 x 8.5 wheel with an offset between 44mm - 56mm.

Finally, my Z4 3.0 Sport comes with the same size wheels/tires as the ZHP. I have a set of OE wheels with the 225/265 Kumho Ecsta V700 combo on them for treaded rain tire use. I regret to report that the car does not understeer like a pig, at least not with this driver behind the wheel. After reading the previous posts I can see why Andy hedged on buying them from me, which is regrettable considering they were offered for a considerable amount less than the full new price.

best regards