The E46 is looking dated. [Archive] - bimmerfest

10-13-2003, 04:41 PM

Cliff

10-13-2003, 04:44 PM

Yes or no?

No, and the styling on the E36 bores me to tears.

Jon S.

10-13-2003, 04:46 PM

No, and the styling on the E36 bores me to tears.

I agree with Cliff.

And the E36s are starting to look really old to me.

Cliff

10-13-2003, 04:47 PM

I agree with Cliff.

And the E36s are starting to look really old to me.

:hi: Jon! How's school?

Jon S.

10-13-2003, 04:52 PM

:hi: Jon! How's school?

This is week #2 Cliff.

The networks of neural pathways are getting a jump-start now;
I read 150 pages today.. Good thing the surf was flat!
:)

How are you doing, Cliff???

Coming down this way anytime soon??

10-13-2003, 04:53 PM

I agree with Cliff.

And the E36s are starting to look really old to me.
:stickpoke:

Plaz

10-13-2003, 04:57 PM

The E46 was the first "trendy" BMW design and it already looks more dated (IMO) than the E36 that preceded it.

That's nuts. The E36 looks straight out of the 80s to my eyes now.

The E46 isn't exactly "wow" anymore, but it doesn't look like a tired trendy design, either. Like a Fiero does, for example.

However, the E46 is now the BMW design closest to looking "old," now that the classy, yet undeniably boring and tired E39 style has fallen by the wayside to make room for the astonishingly gorgeous new E60.

:angel:

Matthew330Ci

10-13-2003, 04:58 PM

Trendy designs look cool (to many/most) when they come out. But they don't have staying power.

Timeless designs lack the same "Wow!" factor when they are new, but they look great forever.

The E46 was the first "trendy" BMW design and it already looks more dated (IMO) than the E36 that preceded it.

The "new" Bangle creations are going to look just plain awful (as if they don't already) by the ends of their model runs.

E46 Trendy? I certainly don't see it. general consensus among people (inc. non-bmw owners) is that it's a "classic" design.

to me, the lines on an e46 flow gracefully and are well-balanced, the e36 on the other hand, has something that just looks a little unbalanced and uneven. (the side-skirts that get bigger towards the front being just one thing).

Cliff

10-13-2003, 05:02 PM

This is week #2 Cliff.

The networks of neural pathways are getting a jump-start now;
I read 150 pages today.. Good thing the surf was flat!
:)

How are you doing, Cliff???

Coming down this way anytime soon??

It could be worse - I have some comp sci books that will leave you in a coma long before you finish 150 pages...

I'm good - I'm on vacation this week and spent the day detailing the car (in the garage I bought in August - I'm still groovin on being a homeowner - it's tough to do on one income in the Bay Area). Tomorrow (and maybe Wednesday too) will bring more of the same. We spent a bunch of money on software this year (~$3 million, give or take), expectations are high, and I'm one of the key people on the project, so I've been working mighty hard.

No trips to SB are in the works for the near future :(

Maverick

10-13-2003, 05:06 PM

The E46 was the first "trendy" BMW design and it already looks more dated (IMO) than the E36 that preceded it.

This is crazy! :fruit: Besides we won't really be able to tell until the new design comes out. No doubt, E46 is still a good looking car.

·clyde·

10-13-2003, 05:24 PM

The E36 looks like a Buick (shudder).

johnlew

10-13-2003, 05:45 PM

No. E36, yes.

PhilH

10-13-2003, 05:46 PM

There's tons of E46s everywhere, and it seems that very soon people will really be anticipating the E90. Those two factors make the E46 nearly dated. If they were more rare, or if the replacement was still a few years away, I don't think the same exact design would appear dated at all...it has classic styling.

Ignoring the troll who started the E36/E46 argument, I'd say if the E46 ages as well as the E36 has, I'd be happy.

bluer1

10-13-2003, 05:58 PM

Phil F

10-13-2003, 06:07 PM

[The] undeniably boring and tired E39 style has fallen by the wayside to make room for the astonishingly gorgeous new E60.

"Astonishingly gorgeous"? The E60? Tell me that you've "learned to live it" or that you find aspects of the design "interesting" and I can understand. But "atonishingly gorgeous"? That's just twisted.

sshuit

10-13-2003, 06:09 PM

Nope, and the E36 still looks pretty good too.

Yes or no?

PhilH

10-13-2003, 06:10 PM

Trendy designs look cool (to many/most) when they come out. But they don't have staying power.

Timeless designs lack the same "Wow!" factor when they are new, but they look great forever.

The E46 was the first "trendy" BMW design and it already looks more dated (IMO) than the E36 that preceded it.

The "new" Bangle creations are going to look just plain awful (as if they don't already) by the ends of their model runs.
Now for a direct response to this post...

I agree with your ideas about the timelessness of classic and trendy designs, but I disagree about the E46 being trendy. When it was introduced in 1999, I thought BMW executed the car perfectly. It retained the basic look of the E36 outside, except with rounded edges, but they gave it a high quality interior and they dropped the 4-cylinder model in favor of the 323i.

I was not really "wowed" by the exterior design of the E46 when it was first introduced. It's a good evolutionary design of the E36.

10-13-2003, 06:13 PM

Cliff

10-13-2003, 06:21 PM

Who else was going to say "yes" but me? http://www.kurts-smilies.de/tocktock.gif

:tsk:

PhilH

10-13-2003, 06:24 PM

Troll?

If I'm a troll than the original question was a troll as well. Who else was going to say "yes" but me? http://www.kurts-smilies.de/tocktock.gif
I think the original question is a valid concern. I've wondered the same thing since I got my car nine months ago. The E46 has been around for five years, and if it was a Japanese design, would have already been replaced.

You, on the other hand, turned this into yet another "my car is better than yours" argument, knowing that your comments would piss off the majority of the people here who own E46s.

As usual, you also raised some interesting observations.

Llando88

10-13-2003, 06:35 PM

No.

(but then I would say that, I guess:))

I think E46 is the "best" shape currently of 4D sedans in the yup-scale marketplace, despite being replaced shortly.

If I'm a typical aging baby boomer seeking to resolve an approaching mid-life crisis (which I was), then my options/opinions on external style options were:

o MBZ W203 - Peanut headlights, somewhat effeminate visage, swoopy rear end mimicking '00 S class
o Acura TSX - Low rent, plain car, droopy rear 3/4 treatment
o Jag X type - too small/short to be a proper Jag. Mondeo parts bin car.
o Volvo S60 etc - Volvo? Nope, don't think so.
o Audi A4 - cool, swoopy design but again, seemed to be outdating itself quickly
o IS300 - Erm, no; ridiculous looking wheels, too short angular squat looking.

Ended up the ZHP in Silver Grey/black cow (for reasons beyond styling), but I am very happy with it; I think this body style is just about right to me. And since I had to drive the car, that was damn convenient. YMMV.

rj

Ashe too

10-13-2003, 06:47 PM

This is week #2 Cliff.

The networks of neural pathways are getting a jump-start now;
I read 150 pages today.. Good thing the surf was flat!
:)

Don't forget to stock up on Emanuel's and Gilbert's - it will make your life a lot easier.

10-13-2003, 06:54 PM

I think the original question is a valid concern. I've wondered the same thing since I got my car nine months ago. The E46 has been around for five years, and if it was a Japanese design, would have already been replaced.

You, on the other hand, turned this into yet another "my car is better than yours" argument, knowing that your comments would piss off the majority of the people here who own E46s.

As usual, you also raised some interesting observations.
No I didn't.

I cerainly don't think anyone is going to buy an E36 over an E46 because of anything I type. I personally prefer the E36 looks-wise. Hence the "IMO" in my post.

E36 vs E46 aside, teh new Bangle creations are going to look like ASS in a few years.

racerdave

10-13-2003, 07:01 PM

Nope, and the E36 still looks pretty good too.

I'll second that.

I still like the E36 a lot. The headlights look the most dated, but not terrible. And I saw a 4-door M3 for sale just recently. Made me do a double-take and re-think ordering a new E36. :)

As for the E46, it still looks better than most of the newer competition in the class like the G35 and TL, TSX, etc. And considering the age of the overall design, that bodes well for now and the look in a few years.

IMHO.

Masskrug

10-13-2003, 07:14 PM

I think I'll post MY opinion now.

This thread was inspired by the Dinan M3-S2 article in C&D. It was the first time I looked at the E46 design and thought "Hmmm, It doesn't look quite contemporary".

I still think it is an attractive design, and evolutionary of the E36. (I DO own one, after all).

However, as polarizing as the New Bangle Design may be, it is definitely pushing auto design into a modern, edgier, trendier language that eclipses the E46 back into the nineties.

And I don't like it, neither.

Masskrug

10-13-2003, 07:15 PM

Troll?

If I'm a troll than the original question was a troll as well. Who else was going to say "yes" but me? http://www.kurts-smilies.de/tocktock.gif

:confused:

Who you calling a troll, Willis?

Tanning machine

10-13-2003, 07:18 PM

I agree with Cliff.

And the E36s are starting to look really old to me.

I agree as well. Although I still like the look of the E30s.

SunnyE

10-13-2003, 07:28 PM

E46 No, E36 Yes.

I just got a new e46 and I did compare to the new Audi A4. I guess e46 still holds its charm/appeal even though its 3-4 yrs older design than the new A4 ! That says something :thumbup:

nate

10-13-2003, 07:52 PM

Maybe a bit, it certainly does not look like a brand new design.

But, that is not necessarily a bad thing.

It looks good, IMO...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=20158

CMOS

10-13-2003, 08:09 PM

I think that the E46 will go down as a classic design.

The only thing holding the E46 back will be its numerosity. I don't have numbers at my disposal, but I'm sure that by the end of the E46 run, BMW will have sold far more E46s than E30s. Thus, the E46 will be less exciting for that reason, regardless of points for style. If everyone wore Armani suits, they just wouldn't look as good anymore. The power of design is part objective and part subjective.

BTW, what is BMW's problem with the front air dams? The M3/M5/M-technic air dams look great. But the stock air dams on the new 5 and 7 sort of turn down at the edges which make the car look like its grimacing. My wife sees the M cars and is delighted because they look so happy. I sure hope that the 545 6spd has a better dam soon. (At least the E39 540 6sp had an M-like dam)

CMOS

nate

10-13-2003, 08:11 PM

There are less than 9,000 328Cis :)

eksath

10-13-2003, 09:11 PM

Depends on the angle...and it can be considered conservative to the modern designs but still a looker!

swchang

10-13-2003, 09:24 PM

Perhaps this is a post for a different thread, but I originally hated the new Bangle designs. After a lot of retching, I think it's finally growing on me. I don't think I'll ever like the rear end design of the 7 series, but the fronts (of the 5 series at least) are starting to look appealing.

Maybe it's like when you first meet a girl who you think is plain-looking, and then after a few years, she starts to look attractive to you. :p

Anyway, another off-topic comment, but I am in love with the MB E-class design. If I could marry a car, it would be the E55 AMG.

I guess I should try to make this post relevant to the thread at hand... I like the E46 design. I suppose its time is coming, but it's got a good number of years ahead of it before it looks like an Audi. ;)

Plaz

10-13-2003, 09:40 PM

"Astonishingly gorgeous"? The E60? Tell me that you've "learned to live it" or that you find aspects of the design "interesting" and I can understand. But "atonishingly gorgeous"? That's just twisted.

While I admit a touch of hyperbole, I genuinely think it's a very attractive car. And I think the Z4 is downright sexy.

This same outrage happens amongst the purists every time a new design comes out, it seems. Remember, real BMWs have round taillights.

:rolleyes:

That being said, I do admit still not being in love with the E65. I'm fairly indifferent, but I think the upscale MBs look better.

Bimmer ese

10-13-2003, 11:44 PM

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I truly believe the E46 body style is one of the best body styles out there. I also like the fact that my car is "unique", being the first model year (2001) of the 330 and with the "dated" pre-facelift front end.

andy_thomas

10-14-2003, 12:56 AM

The E36 looks like a Buick (shudder).

Which Buick would that be? The Buick 325is, or just all Buick E36s? :)

Melissa

10-14-2003, 01:30 AM

Not dated, in my opinion! It's the equivalent of the "little black dress"....it will never go out of style.

Just wanted to throw in a feminine twist for ya! :)

RandyB

10-14-2003, 05:16 AM

I think the E46 is a beautiful design, and to me it has that timeless quality. I don't really understand why so many people are affected by external pressures when it comes to cars. If you like the car and its shape when you first bought it, what would make you lose that over time? Pressure from the newer models?

That said, the technology underneath the skin is the hardest part about the 'next' models for me to resist. But I think sooner or later we'll reach a point when cars aren't necessarily that much better than the models they replace, just different.

LmtdSlip

10-14-2003, 05:48 AM

No on E46. No, on most E36.

The only E36 that look old to me are the stripper models with skinny tires, cheap looking wheels (what was BMW thinking?) and grey plastic trim. The later E36 325/8, M3 and verts still look good to me.

I think the E36 design will age very well with the exception of the cars I noted above. I think the E46 will age even better as there were significantly fewer stripper models offered and even those had nicer looking wheels and trim.

Desertnate

10-14-2003, 06:03 AM

This thread probably should have been a poll, that way folks woun't have had their panties in a wad when someone like TD throws out their own opinion... :tsk:

Here is MHO...take it for what it is worth...

I think the E46 will tend to be a little more timeless than the E36 when dealing with the rank-and-file models, i.e. 325is and I. The sharp creases and lines of the front make it rather dated. The E36 M3 with it's different air dam and wheels give it a little more of an edge, it's reputation as being a world class performance sedan give it a longer lease on life.

As for the E46, I think the smoother lines, yet a link in the design back to previous generations will make it a little more timeless. Also, even a stock SP E46 has the agressive styling I don't think you could get from an E36 unless it was an M.

I own a pre-facelift model and think it looks much better looking from a sport/agressive point of view than the post-facelift (I talking only sedans here). The front facia and aero kits seemed to give it more of the "out of my way or be eaten" look that the new standard "pouty" facia doesn't have. Maybe it is the tiny foglights or the frown vents in the facia, but it looks too civilized to me and doesn't go with the redesigned turn indicators at the corners. Now, add the M-Technik front facia found on the Ms and the ZHPs and I am all for it.

As for the coupes, I tend to prefer the post facelift front...the original design never really did anything for me...

:flame: away...I'm a man...I can take it :D

Artslinger

10-14-2003, 06:13 AM

Is the E46 looking dated...

BMW should never be cutting edge in its designs.
A BMW should be slightly conservative, with a tight no nonsense design and a sporty edge.

AuricanX

10-14-2003, 07:24 AM

I was reading all the posts, I thought this was pretty funny, I'm in the market for a new ZHP in the next couple of months, and I love the way those slight changes to the e46 make it look better. However, I'm a coupe person really, (I just can't afford the M3) and when I compare the platforms I compare coupes.
If that were the case, I would say yes and no to both! The simple reason is this: If you see a 328is (substitute any e36 model coupe here) and it's dirty, in a terrible color and trim, and has not been looked after, my heart breaks! My best friend just bought an estrol blue M3 ('99), it's one of the most gorgeous things I've ever seen in my life. I look at E46's the same way. If it's not kept after, sure it looks dated, it looks like a 'used car'. But look, we're all BMW enthusiasts here, you guys can't tell me that if you see a clean kept and maintained BMW in the color scheme you favor, you don't appreciate it.

MikeW

10-14-2003, 08:54 AM

Right idea, wrong car.

I really don't see anything particulary 'Trendy' about the E46. It's a clean classic design, actually alot cleaner than it's direct compeditors (except maybe the A4 in the sedan, and the Coupe has no competition on looks).

They cars I think your comment does apply to are the various Nissan/Infinity compeditors (350Z, various G35s). In five or six year, they're really going to be old news.

Trendy designs look cool (to many/most) when they come out. But they don't have staying power.

Timeless designs lack the same "Wow!" factor when they are new, but they look great forever.

The E46 was the first "trendy" BMW design and it already looks more dated (IMO) than the E36 that preceded it.

The "new" Bangle creations are going to look just plain awful (as if they don't already) by the ends of their model runs.

Fifty_Cent

10-14-2003, 10:08 AM

For me, the pre-facelift cars are starting to look a bit dated. I attribute this mostly to the turndown of the front turn indicators, like the E36. I have a hard time escaping that it looks a little too similar to the E36 when viewed against a post-facelift car.

I still think the E36 looks great - and even advised a friend to get the E36 M3 over the E46 when he was ready to give up his 5er. (I was first in line for his 5er, but the deal didn't go through.)

Go figure - I hated the E46 when it came out, and now own one. If anyone is counting, I did that with the Yamaha R1 as well.
:eeps:

As far as timeless goes, E30 M3. I still can't get past those fender flares. It'll likely to be my next BMW, (for a fun, modded, weekend driver).
:yummy:

I completely dissagre with the pre-facelift statement. I agree on the pre-facelifit amber indicators, but, with clear front indicators. the pre-facelift model looks suprerb by my view.

I still didnt come to terms with the facelift model's new lights, I just dont find any continuity on that design. Also, not quite fond of the rear lights as well....what is the meaning of moving the turning light to the centre of the light???

I agree with the classisest of all though...the E30 M3, in metallic black and make that a convertible please...!!!

As for the new 7 series, mr bangle has some explanation to give I think, it will look really ugly in a couple of years...new 6 series nice, althogh looks abit like a megane!! and new 5 series still nice(other complaints were heard about the inerior though)

WLN1951B

10-14-2003, 01:13 PM

No!!! I will never tire of the look....r u kidding?

JasM

10-14-2003, 01:30 PM

Yes or no?

No, not to me. As a coupe owner, I find it's design tight, clean, and sophisticated. It carries through to the interior as well. The E46 coupe is a class act end to end. I even like the Sport Package M wheels. If it had dual exhausts it would be even better. I think it has and will continue to stand the test of time.

Masskrug

10-14-2003, 01:34 PM

It seems to me that a lot of people are still in the "new relationship syndrome" with the E46.

Jspeed

10-14-2003, 01:36 PM

I think the E46 is aging rather well, just like fine wine. ;)

JasM

10-14-2003, 01:42 PM

It seems to me that a lot of people are still in the "new relationship syndrome" with the E46.

Maybe, but good design is good design. Are people supposed to grow tired of a design just because something new is out?

The Coupe has been out a long time and I have admired it. When it came time to buy there were several other options, like the 350Z or G35. I didn't buy just for the looks but I think the 330ci's looks are more pure and sophisticated than either the G35 or 350Z. I have a problem with the 350's rear end design (not to mention its cheesy interior and first year problems) and also with the G35s butt and trim line under the side windows (and certain aspects of its interior and first year problems). For me, for a lot of reasons, the 330ci was the best choice.

Masskrug

10-14-2003, 02:05 PM

Maybe, but good design is good design. Are people supposed to grow tired of a design just because something new is out?

The Coupe has been out a long time and I have admired it. When it came time to buy there were several other options, like the 350Z or G35. I didn't buy just for the looks but I think the 330ci's looks are more pure and sophisticated than either the G35 or 350Z. I have a problem with the 350's rear end design (not to mention its cheesy interior and first year problems) and also with the G35s butt and trim line under the side windows (and certain aspects of its interior and first year problems). For me, for a lot of reasons, the 330ci was the best choice.

1. Please don't assume I DISLIKE the design. After all, I own one, and I don't buy cars I don't find attractive.

2. I am not comparing the E46 to other marques' cars, as some people seem want to do. In the design language within the BMW family, the E46 is appearing dated, which is probably a natural thing since it is the 'oldest' design in the stable at this time.

3. Dated is not necessarily a negative term.

Scorp76

10-15-2003, 03:35 AM

Yes or no?

Dated? YES.

That said, it STILL looks better than ANYthing in its class.

Evanzhp

10-15-2003, 07:40 PM

I just got my ZHP about a month ago and with the black trim around the middle of the car it does look a little dated. I have already put on clears and tinted the windows on my silver grey car and it looks much more modern. The factory clears I got doing european delivery helped the most.

That said, I have been watching spy movies of the E90 and I plan on eventually getting one. It looks very contemporary,more elegant, and more aggressive too. By far the best BMW to date from the Bangle crew. It still looks like a BMW.......

Patrick330i

10-15-2003, 11:48 PM

I don't know what you call it, but I am still a very happy guy! :thumbup:

http://home.comcast.net/~twosomeca/wsb/media/95593/site1146.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~twosomeca/wsb/media/95593/site1148.jpg

sshuit

10-16-2003, 05:55 AM

What is up with those pics Patrick. You car looks all tall and narrow

:confused:

I don't know what you call it, but I am still a very happy guy! :thumbup:

http://home.comcast.net/~twosomeca/wsb/media/95593/site1146.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~twosomeca/wsb/media/95593/site1148.jpg

LordByron

10-16-2003, 07:00 AM

NO looks like new to me !!

Cal

10-16-2003, 01:36 PM

The facelifted e46 looks good and not dated at all. In regards to the e36, the base model ones look dated as someone already said, but I think that the sport ones and the m3 models look great and will continue to look great (dated is another issue).

Here is a pic of an e36 M3/4 in action next to arguably the best looking e46 (the M3). They both look good to me, and the e36 m3/4 isn't in the best color either. Take a look at the other ones (estoril, white, etc).

I'll second that.

I still like the E36 a lot. The headlights look the most dated, but not terrible. And I saw a 4-door M3 for sale just recently. Made me do a double-take and re-think ordering a new E36. :)

As for the E46, it still looks better than most of the newer competition in the class like the G35 and TL, TSX, etc. And considering the age of the overall design, that bodes well for now and the look in a few years.

IMHO.

postoak

10-25-2003, 04:38 PM

I think the E46 is a beautiful design, and to me it has that timeless quality. I don't really understand why so many people are affected by external pressures when it comes to cars. If you like the car and its shape when you first bought it, what would make you lose that over time? Pressure from the newer models? - RandyB

I agree with this completely. I was watching a show on the history of the sports car and there were some designs in the '50s that look better than designs today. What makes a car look dated is if it is dirty, chipped, and dented. A beautiful design is a beautiful design. The E46 isn't the best looking design but it's darned good.

The Roadstergal

10-25-2003, 04:46 PM

The E30 was the last real BMW. Everything since is trendy and silly. :neener: :angel2:

In all honesty, though, after looking at the Z4, everything else does look boring, not so fresh. It's quite striking, and for me in a positive way - a new way of doing things. In that light, yes, the E46 is looking like a car whose time has come - a cool shape, a good run, and I hope people preserve and love them like they have been for the 2002s, the E30s and E36s; but at its end.

The Z4 is one of the few cars I've driven that makes me feel disappointed with my Miata. :eeps:

eliyale

10-26-2003, 05:42 AM

Hmm. My first thought was, "No way!" But you know, I never thought I'd say it, but I'm starting to warm up to the Bangle-mobiles, especially the E60. (Still not a fan of the 7-series, though)

Now that the E46 is the odd man out in the BMW lineup, maybe it does look a little dated. Not bad by any stretch of the imagination, but it is a little dowdy (especially in non-ZHP form)... kind of like the old 5-series was in its last couple of years of life.

adgrant

10-26-2003, 08:50 AM

It seems to me that a lot of people are still in the "new relationship syndrome" with the E46.

Perhaps but not in my case. However I bought my first E46 (a 99 323) back in 1998 (it replaced an E36 coupe) and my second in 2001 (a 325 AWD wagon for my wife). I still prefer the pre-facelift design.

However I just replaced the 99 with a 2004 facelifted model. I don't like the design as much but I do like driving a car with a warranty again and I like the improvements over my 99 (more power, Steptronic, DSC, AWD, NAV etc). AWD and NAV were unfortunately not available on the E46 in 1998. The NAV in the 04 is much better than the 01's also).

I will be replacing the 01 with an 04 next year (lease is up). If the E90 looks anything like the other Chris Bungle designs, that will be my last BMW for a while. I don't like any of the new designs, inside or out.

dynosor

10-26-2003, 10:48 AM

tommyd

10-26-2003, 10:52 AM

Everytime I see one on the street I think, damn that car is beautiful. Especially the facelift nose with more divergent creases on the hood.

Then it dawns on me, that's what my car looks like from the outside.

:rofl:
Personally, i have a pic of my car etched in my head...
I think i'm starting to annoy my friends and SO cuz all i do is look at it...

park... turn back and look as i walk away...
go into store... look out the window...
park at home... give it a quick go around and spot clean if necessary...

...in fact... i think i'm gonna go take a peek right now...
:eeps: