Yellow "low air" idiot light indicator keeps going on.

[pmb1010]

My 2003 330xi had Goodyear Runflat RS-A's, and the air pressure monitoring system to detect a flat tire. When I removed these tires/rims and put on my snow tire & rim combination, of course there are no transmitters on the snows so the yellow light would come on after about 10 minutes of driving. I sort of expected that.

A couple weeks ago (with the summer RS-A's on) I got a flat tire. Indicator went yellow, then red. Drove home nice and slow on the runflat (<20 miles) and took it off the car, put on one of my snows (as the spare is a donut tire). There was 2 drywall screws in the tire, one dead center, other pretty much on sidewall. Took the tire to Goodyear store, they didn't seem interested in fixing it due to flex in sidewall may make the tire leak/fail, and frankly I wasn't interested in having any problems (just in case I exceeded the speed limit).

I took the car to tire store and had 4 Goodyear GS-F1-D3's put on. I had to go with 225/45/17's (stock was 205/50/17's). They did not do anything with the pressure sensors (I assume they are on the inside of the valve stems, they wouldn't let me in the shop this time to watch them mount/balance). I left, and on the way the red "flat" indicator was still on. When I got home, I did what the book said, turn key to position 2 (ign on, no start) and hold down the runflat button near ash tray "till the light goes out". Did that, it went out.

I checked the tire pressure the next day (make sure no leaks) I added some air to get 35psi (they said they put in 32psi) all tires were the same, so no apparent leaks.

What happens now is the same situation as to my snow tires - after 10 minutes of driving, yellow low tire indicator comes on. Tires have right amount of air. I tried the reset trick when tires cold, hot, doesn't matter, light still comes on after 10 minutes.

I guess I'm ready to call the dealer for service appointment, but will they be able to read the car's computer and figure out which tire sensor is complaining? I'd hate to have all 4 tires dismounted/remounted, there's already a couple nicks in the rims, I don't need any more.

Am I missing something resetting the low tire indicator?

[TeamM3]

is this on a BMW or some other vehicle, please specify

[pmb1010]

is this on a BMW or some other vehicle, please specify

Yes, my 2003 330xi...

[TeamM3]

on your particular model there are wheel sensors (some of the newer models don't have a sensor, i.e. the Z4, they use the ABS wheel speed sensor to detect a difference in wheel speed/rolling radius)

possibly a sensor was damaged when the new tires were installed or a component has gone bad and it just happens to be a coincidence.

you'll probably have to take into the dealer and have them run a diagnostic on the RDC system

[Pinecone]

Are you sure? As far as I know all BMWs only use the ABS speed sensors to detect a wheel with a different rotation rate. This goes back to the E38 7 series.

WRT the problem with the light tripping, read your manual on how to reset the "normal" point, so tht the computer knows what it is starting from. If you change tires and wheels it may trip since it is not used teh comparison between front and rear.

[pmb1010]

Are you sure? As far as I know all BMWs only use the ABS speed sensors to detect a wheel with a different rotation rate. This goes back to the E38 7 series.

WRT the problem with the light tripping, read your manual on how to reset the "normal" point, so tht the computer knows what it is starting from. If you change tires and wheels it may trip since it is not used teh comparison between front and rear.

When I talked to TireRack about the yellow light from the snows, they said there's pressure sensors on the inside of the rims (which they could sell me) to make the light go away. I don't know for sure how this system is supposed to work, that's why I'm asking here....

I tried (a bunch of times) to clear the yellow warning with the snow rims/tires, and could not do so. As soon as I put the regular summer tires/rims back on, I did not get yellow light. So I cannot understand why, if as you say, the ABS sensors would no longer continue to work to determine a flat when the snows are installed, assuming I set the computer correctly.

I did what the manual says (and I repeat from above) - key to "on", no start. Hold tire button, yellow comes on, and then after about 10 seconds of continuing to hold it, the yellow goes out. This is supposed to "set" the computer to remember the pressure, rolling diameter, whatever. I could not get this to work with the snow rims. Now its not working with the new tires on my old factory rims, either.

[TeamM3]

I may have misunderstood your original question. The 330xi has air pressure relay sensors located inside the wheels. Each wheel has a unique valve stem that allows the transmitting sensor to be bolted to it inside the wheel. Each wheelwell has a receiver antenna for capturing the sensor signal, and there is also a main monitoring control module. This is called the RDC pressure monitoring system

if it's not working with either set of wheels you may have a main module or an antenna issue. Sounds like you are following the proper system reset procedure. IMO you will need to take it to the dealer for diagnosis.

[Pinecone]

OK< it sounds like the xi is different.

Team Z4 - I misunderstood your post, as I thought you were saying that only newer cars use the ABS sesnor, when it semms closer to the other way around.

FWIW, the NHTSA should rule soon requiring direct sensors for tire pressure monitoring. Another case of engineering around the idiot. Don't educate drivers about checking tire presure, just make the car do it for them. :(

[Pinecone]

OK, checked the ETK. It looks like ALL E46s except M3s have a direct tire presure monitoring system.

At least the ETK lists a tire pressure module for E46s back to 1999.

Oh well. live and learn. :)

[pmb1010]

OK, checked the ETK. It looks like ALL E46s except M3s have a direct tire presure monitoring system.

At least the ETK lists a tire pressure module for E46s back to 1999.

Oh well. live and learn. :)

AFAIK, the tire pressure monitoring system was an option on pre-03 E46. In 03 they made it a standard item. And yes, here is result of technology attempting to fix what's not broken. I check my tire pressure about every other month. Now I have this idiot light giving me false warnings. If the technology is there, I paid for it, it should work. On the other side of the coin, I wonder if it would be possible to just shut off this feature since I change back & forth snow & summer tires, and I really don't need it.

Well, the snows are going on in a couple weeks, so I will pick this up again in the spring.

Is there a graphic in ETK that shows what the valve stem sensors look like? (just curious).

Thnx,
PMB

[TeamM3]

the manufacturers are addressing their potential liability following the Firestone/Explorer lawsuits; tire pressure monitoring, runflat tires, etc. all part of the same issue.

The runflat systems seem to be hedging towards the non-sensor inference detection methods, with std. tires using a direct sensor measurement. Makes sense since low pressure is a bigger safety hazard on a std. tire than a runflat.


http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL36/454183/548274/36021584.jpg

Item 1 is the control module
Item 2 is the antenna
Item 3 is the transmitting sensor
Item 4 is the valve stem and sensor fastener

If the technology is there, I paid for it, it should work.

yeah, that's why if you take it to the dealer and it's determined to be a warranty issue, as opposed to a sensor damaged by the tire installer, they will fix it for you.

You might be able to pull a fuse or something for the RDC control module, but I have no idea what the repercussions would be or if that would drop the light out. The yellow light seems to indicate a system failure so you wouldn't really expect them to allow you to disengage it.

Don't feel bad, I have a 2001 Chevy Impala LS company vehicle that the check engine light has been lit for the last 80,000 miles, nobody can fix it :(

[TeamM3]

OK, checked the ETK. It looks like ALL E46s except M3s have a direct tire presure monitoring system.


:neener: one of us checked before shooting his mouth off :p

[pmb1010]

yep, look right there in the graphic - a "champagne glass" warning that this thing can be easily damaged.

They prob. broke 1 putting a tire on. Talking to these tire installers sometimes is like talking to the wall...

[TeamM3]

yep, look right there in the graphic - a "champagne glass" warning that this thing can be easily damaged.

They prob. broke 1 putting a tire on. Talking to these tire installers sometimes is like talking to the wall...

I dunno, the wall is much more likely to listen :rolleyes:

unless of course they work at The TireRack :D :angel:

[Gary@Tirerack]

I dunno, the wall is much more likely to listen :rolleyes:

unless of course they work at The TireRack :D :angel:
:D

[Pinecone]

Yeah, yeagh. :)

Actually ALL cars are headed to direct pressure readings. NHTSA was going to require some form of tire pressure, but indirect would have been OK. Some group got a court ruling against (or maybe Congress did it) but bottom line, indirect will NOT mee the upcoming NHTSA standard.

Probably in time of 05 models, every car will require it.

[TeamM3]

hmmm, seems odd that BMW chose indirect over direct for the Z4 models if that is true especially since they already have systems in use that would easily transfer over, but I'm not complaining :dunno:

[Pinecone]

The change to the rule requiring direct systems just ahppened lst month.

[pmb1010]

Update & resolution of this problem.

I finally got this resolved. After I had put my summer tires back on this spring, I took the vehicle in for 10,000mi / yearly oil change. I mentioned to the service advisor the light keeps coming on, and the reset procedure doesn't clear it.

When I picked up the car, the work order said they changed the oil/filter, and reset the indicator, drove car and problem did not occur.

I picked up the car, and driving home the light came back on. :mad:
Evidently, they did not drive long enough to trigger the light to come on.

So I rescheduled an appointment and last week I finally had the chance to get it to them.
They replaced 2 sensors (I think inside the tires since there are new wheel weights on left front, and right rear...) but when they road tested the car, and the light came back on.

They had to overnight in a new "control module" and installed that, and things now are OK. Drove home and light now says out.