View Full Version : Semi-urgent: What would YOu do?
Okay, we went to pick up the Saab tonight. You may recall, we had a brief discussion of the BBS rims that came on this wagon (RK IIs). You may also recall that there was a question as to whether the rims were polished and we confirmed they were.
Well, in having the curb rash repaired, the wheel guy they had do the work took the fast and lazy approach and sanded the lips and painted them alloy wheel silver. They are no longer polished. They are painted silver. And I don't think they are even clearcoated. And the work was quite sloppy.
What would you do? Asking for brand new rims (@ ~$2K) is probably not going to play out in my favor. But what are my options? The car is in mint condition otherwise. But the rims look wrong.
I haven't signed for the car yet, so it's still not ours.
What would YOU do?
Was reconditioning the wheel(s) part of the agreement WRT the deal on the car? If so, you have more leverage in this matter. If not, and the wheel refinishing was a courtesy, well, it's harder to argue.
In either case, do they all match? If not, I'd definitely have the mismatched ones redone. At minimum I would want all 4 to be the same.
Was reconditioning the wheel(s) part of the agreement WRT the deal on the car? If so, you have more leverage in this matter. If not, and the wheel refinishing was a courtesy, well, it's harder to argue.
In either case, do they all match? If not, I'd definitely have the mismatched ones redone. At minimum I would want all 4 to be the same.
Yes. The car is being certified (CPO) by Saab. The refinishing is required to CPO it. The rims were rashed pretty badly and the coating that had been on the lips had started to lift in places and moisture had gotten underneath and produced a black mold. They had looked pretty bad.
As for the subject of being mismatched, all 4 were done but all 4 look less than perfect, even for painted rims. But these rims aren't *supposed* to be painted. Hence the core of the issue. At the least, I want them done better. But I would vastly prefer them to look polished not painted.
·clyde·
10-23-2003, 07:49 PM
Depends on what I thought that I could get away with. If the deal was reached with the understanding that the wheels would be brought back to like new condition, and I was paying more than I would with more pedestrian wheels, I'd want a discount of some sort. What I would be willing to accept would depend on how badly I wanted the car, how badly I wanted the process to be over, etc.
If the "damage" to the wheels doesn't affect the wheels strength, usability, etc, I wouldn't be all that concerned. It's a used car, and I'd be expecting my wife and kid(s) to crap it up cosmetically in such short order that I might even prefer it to be pre-damaged in that way.
Depends on what I thought that I could get away with. If the deal was reached with the understanding that the wheels would be brought back to like new condition, and I was paying more than I would with more pedestrian wheels, I'd want a discount of some sort. What I would be willing to accept would depend on how badly I wanted the car, how badly I wanted the process to be over, etc.
If the "damage" to the wheels doesn't affect the wheels strength, usability, etc, I wouldn't be all that concerned. It's a used car, and I'd be expecting my wife and kid(s) to crap it up cosmetically in such short order that I might even prefer it to be pre-damaged in that way.
There was that understanding. It was explicitly stated by my salesman.
SpaceMonkey
10-23-2003, 07:53 PM
There was that understanding. It was explicitly stated by my salesman.
So how did you leave it with the dealership tonight?
So how did you leave it with the dealership tonight?
We took the car (w/dealer tags) to the shop that's doing the PPI in the morning. I didn't really determine just how ****ty the rims looked until I had left the dealership. I plan to call in the morning, hence why I'm looking for input now.
There was that understanding. It was explicitly stated by my salesman.
Because you haven't actually signed for the car, your leverage is limited; they're not obligated to give you anything. However, I would complain about the shoddy work and see whether they want to sell the car badly enough to give you a few hundred bucks off for it.
I might also stop buying used cars from VOB. :eeps:
I'd ask for them to be redone again but in the long run as long as all 4 wheels are matching color I wouldn't stress over it.
The car you found is a hard find and the BBS wheels was not one of the reasons you bought this car, it just happened to have it and you got a bonus ... in other words looking at the big picture, the problem with the wheels is very minor plus if your wife is anything like mine, that car won't exactly be detailed on a regular basis so once a little brake dust covers it you won't even know the difference. Just wait until your kids spill milk and it dries up into the carpet, then you've got a REAL problem ;)
SpaceMonkey
10-23-2003, 08:00 PM
Well, if they really are painted now, and no longer polished, not much can be done. Getting them re-done won't accomplish much, so I'd try to get some sort of compensation. But I'd most likely still get the car.
After all, it's just a station wagon. :p
I'd ask for them to be redone again but in the long run as long as all 4 wheels are matching color I wouldn't stress over it.
The car you found is a hard find and the BBS wheels was not one of the reasons you bought this car, it just happened to have it and you got a bonus ... in other words looking at the big picture, the problem with the wheels is very minor plus if your wife is anything like mine, that car won't exactly be detailed on a regular basis so once a little brake dust covers it you won't even know the difference. Just wait until your kids spill milk and it dries up into the carpet, then you've got a REAL problem ;)
Proof again that you don't know me very well.
Neither of our cars is ever detailed but both are always clean. I ahte brake dust and I could go take a picture of both cars right now and show you neither has any. And there are no food/drink stains anywhere in either car. And there's no curb rash on either either.
And the rims weren't a bonus. They were one of the non-optional options for me. I dislike the Saab 3-spokers.
Proof again that you don't know me very well.
Neither of our cars is ever detailed but both are always clean. I ahte brake dust and I could go take a picture of both cars right now and show you neither has any. And there are no food/drink stains anywhere in either car. And there's no curb rash on either either.
And the rims weren't a bonus. They were one of the non-optional options for me. I dislike the Saab 3-spokers.
uuhhh ... I was just trying to help ease your mind a little in what sounds like a stressful situation . . . man sometimes you are such a pr*ck :tsk:
uuhhh ... I was just trying to help ease your mind a little in what sounds like a stressful situation . . . man sometimes you are such a pr*ck :tsk:
Sorry man.
I thought you were trying to lump my wife in with the can't drive, curb-rash all over the minivan wheels type.
I'll admit to being a bit touchy on that front.
Again, sorry.
SpaceMonkey
10-23-2003, 08:10 PM
Proof again that you don't know me very well.
Neither of our cars is ever detailed but both are always clean. I ahte brake dust and I could go take a picture of both cars right now and show you neither has any. And there are no food/drink stains anywhere in either car. And there's no curb rash on either either.
And the rims weren't a bonus. They were one of the non-optional options for me. I dislike the Saab 3-spokers.
Well, it seems as if you go ahead and get the car as-is, at some point you'll get fed up with the wheels, and eventually try and get them refinished or replaced yourself.
Already I'm sure you'll express your dissatisfaction to the dealership in the morning. What's the best they can offer at this point? Either to attempt to fix them to your satisfaction or $$ off the deal. The latter may be unlikely. Depending on how well they deal with this may sway me. If they act like total pricks, I'd most likely walk away. But barring that, my previous comments hold. I'd still buy it.
Jon S.
10-23-2003, 08:12 PM
Tell them to replace the frickin' wheels or you're gonna walk.
:angel:
SpaceMonkey
10-23-2003, 08:15 PM
Tell them to replace the frickin' wheels or you're gonna walk.
:angel:
Is that what was done with all those "stolen" wheels from Cutter? ;)
Are you serious?
Considering their costs to date (I know what they paid at auction for the car), they are at ~$1500-1600 profit right now. New rims and they are at zero. I'm sure they'd rather wait until someone comes along who doesn't give a **** about the rims (or just plain doesn't notice) than do that.
Come on Jon. You're the insider.
We have all of the paperwork half signed (I've signed, my wife hasn't - pending PPI outcome) so they really think this car is sold - but they don't have a legally binding sale.
·clyde·
10-23-2003, 08:16 PM
I might also stop buying used cars from VOB. :eeps:
Did you read all of my posts?
We dropped it off tonight at an independent Saab shop for a full PPI.
However, we saw and drove the car before they did any work on it (curbed rims, a couple of paint chips, front chin spoiler rash, etc). I honestly doubt they find anything during the PPI. The dealership was just doing a full recondition for CPO certification and did the rims as part of that as they were badly rashed.
The rim guy is outsourced. He is a local and I've had him repair alloys for me before. He has a good reputation. But he boned this round.
(VOB sucks)
Yeah, yeah, yeah...
Jon S.
10-23-2003, 08:28 PM
Are you serious?
Considering their costs to date (I know what they paid at auction for the car), they are at ~$1500-1600 profit right now. New rims and they are at zero. I'm sure they'd rather wait until someone comes along who doesn't give a **** about the rims (or just plain doesn't notice) than do that.
Come on Jon. You're the insider.
We have all of the paperwork half signed (I've signed, my wife hasn't - pending PPI outcome) so they really think this car is sold - but they don't have a legally binding sale.
Tom,
You got screwed on your CPO M3.
What do you have to lose??
Tom,
You got screwed on your CPO M3.
What do you have to lose??
The two dealerships, while both VOB, are a couple miles apart and are managed separately.
Past experience is, unfortunately, not a point of leverage.
Jon S.
10-23-2003, 08:35 PM
The two dealerships, while both VOB, are a couple miles apart and are managed separately.
Past experience is, unfortunately, not a point of leverage.
Every response is interpretable according to the projective hypothesis.
:)
It meant enough for you to post about it here. I don't think that you are
going to be totally satisfied unless there is a concession of some sort
on their part... :dunno:
You have nothing to lose, and you can bring up the previous transaction
for leverage. I'm sure that they know at least that you are a repeat
client.
Tell them to replace the frickin' wheels or you're gonna walk.
:angel:
That's what I would do as well. Use that as a starting point and negotiate down from there.
Jon S.
10-23-2003, 09:06 PM
All that I can say is that they are probably in the car for alot
less than they told you that they are. Dealers love to sell used cars.
That's where the money is...
for crying out loud, there are a million cars out there you can buy and I bet most don't have unsatisfactory wheels!!
do what Jon says, tell 'em what YOU want or walk.
walkin' out is half the fun....
i don't get the problem.
ed
Sorry man.
I thought you were trying to lump my wife in with the can't drive, curb-rash all over the minivan wheels type.
I'll admit to being a bit touchy on that front.
Again, sorry.
No problem . . .
try to look at the big picture . . . wheels can be fixed or replaced . . .
I don't know how easily it is to find a 5 speed Saab wagon with decent miles in good condition but if it's a rare find then I would keep on the dealers butt about fixing the wheels while maintaining the thought in the back of my head that your going home with the car.
A good used car is hard to find and you've been looking a long time for just the right car . . . keep that in mind before walking away from this vehicle.
good luck
SARAFIL
10-24-2003, 04:43 AM
No problem . . .
try to look at the big picture . . . wheels can be fixed or replaced . . .
I don't know how easily it is to find a 5 speed Saab wagon with decent miles in good condition but if it's a rare find then I would keep on the dealers butt about fixing the wheels while maintaining the thought in the back of my head that your going home with the car.
A good used car is hard to find and you've been looking a long time for just the right car . . . keep that in mind before walking away from this vehicle.
good luck
They don't have another Aero with the BBS wheels that they can swap for you? Like others have said, the person buying the other car might be ignorant to the condition of the wheels and take them as is. You, on the other hand, already know they were poorly repaired.
LmtdSlip
10-24-2003, 07:10 AM
That's what I would do as well. Use that as a starting point and negotiate down from there.
:thumbup: Thats what I would do.
Jon S.
10-24-2003, 06:49 PM
Well, TD???
:dunno:
We are going to do a rim swap. So we signed for the car and brought it home, temp tags and all.
Jon S.
10-24-2003, 07:12 PM
We are going to do a rim swap. So we signed for the car and brought it home, temp tags and all.
:supdude: :supdude: :supdude: :supdude: :supdude: :supdude:
Pinecone
10-25-2003, 05:21 AM
Call around and ask how much to fix the rims PROPERLY. And then leverage that much off the price.
All at the hand car-wash the other day.
Nice looking car, TD. I actually went up and took a look at the inside. It was obviously missing your :bling: wheels, but it appears to be the same white wagon.
So how'd the whole thing come out? Got pictures?
All at the hand car-wash the other day.
Nice looking car, TD. I actually went up and took a look at the inside. It was obviously missing your :bling: wheels, but it appears to be the same white wagon. That's actually the SE. (God, have I become a Saab geek as well?!)
There are (were) three levels of 9-5 (they gave them names starting in 2002. Back in 2000, you had the base model (with a 2.3L turbo I-4 with ~170 HP) the SE (with a turbo V6 putting out something like 200 HP) and the Aero (with a 2.3L turbo I-4 putting out 230HP). The engine changed a bit in for 2002 but they loosely correspond to what was offered in 2000. In addition to more HP, the Aeros got a choice of 17 inch rims (the BBSers were extra), a "sport-tuned" suspension and a lower front spoiler and side fascia.
I recognize the rims in that pic as SE rims (16 inchers). In addition to having a different engine and suspension, the SEs were also automatic tranny only.
So, yes, it looks very similar to ours. But the mechanical bits are significantly different.
Here's a pic from last weekend up in Jersey. Pardon the brake dust.
So how'd the whole thing come out? Got pictures?
We took it with the painted rims but they are getting swapped this afternoon. The timing is not really worth explaining. But, as of this writing (and the pic in my previous post) we still have the painted rims.
Here's a pic from last weekend up in Jersey. Pardon the brake dust.
Is that the place with this? :
http://www.flyingwairport.com/images/pages/Pool_and_Deck.jpg
Is that the place with this? :
http://www.flyingwairport.com/images/pages/Pool_and_Deck.jpg Um, yeah.
The pool was empty though.
It's quite an interesting property.
johnlew
11-01-2003, 10:51 AM
Guess you went there so you could land with your Aero!
That's actually the SE. (God, have I become a Saab geek as well?!)
So now the Saab boards get a taste of what your like . . . :yikes:
Try to be on your best behavior, we don't want them to think the old myth about BMW owners is true :stickpoke
So now the Saab boards get a taste of what your like . . . :yikes:
Try to be on your best behavior, we don't want them to think the old myth about BMW owners is true :stickpoke
I can read and search archives to answer whatever questions I may have. I also already ordered the service manual CD. And saabnet doesn't have an OT board.
Sorry Alan, but you're stuck with me.
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