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grateful1
04-30-2010, 09:07 AM
I'm currently running Dunlop SP Sport 01 DSST RunOnFlats on my car which is an Ultra High Performance Summer tire. I really like the way these tires handle but they ride a tad too firm for me so I most likely won't replace them with the same tire.

I live in an area where snow is a major factor in the winters so I am looking at replacing my OEM tires with an Ultra High Performance All-Season tire once winter rolls around. I've debated getting 2 sets of dedicated snow tires but I don't have a lot of space to store these as I already have dedicated snow tires for my other car.

I've narrowed down my choices to the tires shown above. I've heard numerous Bimmerfest members compliment the Contis and the Michelins but wanted to hear what everyone else had to say and am curious as to how people are going to vote.

Kzang
04-30-2010, 09:15 AM
I also have the Dunlop RFT and plan to replace them with Conti Extreme Contact DWS which seems to be the best all season.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=440045&highlight=ultra+high+performance+all+season+tires

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448553&highlight=conti+extreme+contact+dws

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413575&highlight=conti+extreme+contact+dws


September 6, 2009

Tires Tested:
Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position (Ultra High Performance All-Season 225/40R18 88W)
What We Liked: Competitive dry and wet braking
What We'd Improve: Overall snow traction
Winter Conclusion: This tire is for drivers who experience only moderate amounts of snow.
Latest Test Rank: 4th (winter)
Previous Test Rank: 2nd (August '08), 1st (May '08), 3rd (winter, January '08), 4th September '07), 3rd (April '06)

Continental ExtremeContact DWS (Ultra High Performance All-Season 225/40R18 92Y)
What We Liked: Exceptional snow traction
What We'd Improve: We always want more of a good thing
Winter Conclusion: This is a tire that delivers class-leading snow traction that's in a league above the other tires in this test.
Latest Test Rank: 1st (winter)
Previous Test Rank: 2nd (June '09)

Goodyear Eagle F1 All Season (Ultra High Performance All-Season 225/40R18 92Y)
What We Liked: Good snow traction
What We'd Improve: A modest improvement in snow traction would push this tire to the front.
Winter Conclusion: Does an admirable job churning its way through the snow.
Latest Test Rank: 2nd (winter)
Previous Test Rank: 3rd (August '08), 4th (May '08), 1st (winter, January '08), 2nd (September '07)

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus (Ultra High Performance All-Season 225/40R18 92Y)
What We Liked: Reasonable snow traction and solid dry and wet braking traction
What We'd Improve: Better cornering traction in the snow
Winter Conclusion: Provides respectable snow performance, but can't match the best in class.
Latest Test Rank: 3rd (winter)
Previous Test Rank: 3rd (June '09), 1st (August '08)

Yokohama Avid W4s (Ultra High Performance All-Season 225/40R18 92W)
What We Liked: Braking traction on wet and dry roads
What We'd Improve: A significant increase in snow traction
Winter Conclusion: Should be considered by drivers who will experience minimal snowfall.
Latest Test Rank: 5th (winter)
Previous Test Rank: 1st (July '08), 1st (September '07)



Vehicles Used:
2008 BMW E90 320i Sedan, 2008 BMW E92 328i Coupe

Drivers who live in the snowbelt know that winter road conditions are almost always changing. Every vehicle that passes through new-fallen snow either clears a path by blowing it away, churns it into slush or packs it down into ice depending on the weather conditions. What that means is you never know what you're going to find on the road up ahead. And just as changing weather and road conditions challenge us as we drive, they also prove challenging to conduct meaningful tire comparisons out on the open road.

In an effort to better control winter's conditions, members of the Tire Rack team traveled to Northern Sweden in late January, 2009 during the height of winter season. This region near the Arctic Circle is home to a number of dedicated winter test facilities used by vehicle and tire manufacturers from around the world. Here we found consistent cold temperatures, plenty of snow and well-prepared snow and ice surfaces - ideal conditions for conducting side-by-side tire comparisons. Our evaluation was comprehensive - comparing each tire's ability to accelerate, brake and drive through the snow. We conducted both objective tests measuring each tire's performance with sensitive on-board instruments, as well as gathered subjective ratings of how each tire felt from the driver's seat.

Our third product group compared five popular Ultra High Performance All-Season tires, designed to provide year-round traction for performance coupes and sedans, including light snow.

Past experience has shown us that many Ultra High Performance All-Season tires tend to be focused primarily on the three non-winter seasons, delivering relatively high levels of dry and wet road traction and handling. But like with most things in life, there is no free lunch in tire designs, so this three-season focus usually comes at some expense in the fourth season's wintertime traction levels. Our winter test revealed just how much, or little, snow traction is provided in these "All-Season" designs.

We compared the Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position, Continental ExtremeContact DWS, Goodyear Eagle F1 All Season, Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus and Yokohama Avid W4s. Our test used new 225/40R18 tires mounted on 18x8.0" wheels. All tires were broken in by driving them on clear roads for approximately 100 miles prior to testing in winter conditions. All tests were conducted on a rear-wheel drive vehicle, using a 2008 BMW E90 320i sedan and 2008 BMW E92 328i Coupe for the driving duties.

grateful1
04-30-2010, 09:20 AM
[QUOTE=Kzang;5147021]I also have the Dunlop RFT and plan to replace them with Conti Extreme Contact DWS which seems to be the best all season.

That's the word on the street. I am partial to Bridgestone as a brand as I have been very satisfied with the performance, handling and ride on my previous cars. My wife had Conti's and Pirelli's on her cars (not the same models as the ones noted above) and I thought they were both great tires.

I know that a bunch of dudes are probably running Pilots on their cars so I would love to hear feedback back from everyone.

I do remember reading the above review but thanks for posting it as a reference in this thread.

Kzang
04-30-2010, 09:55 AM
The thing about what others say about the tires they have experience with is sort of biased.. Most are going to say they love their current <insert brand here> blah blah blah because well they invested their money into it already and don't want to look like a fool for getting a bad tire or whatever other reasons.

I go by what experts have tested and compared.
For what I need in a tire ( high performance grip, traction, and handling in all weather condition including light snow ) Conti DWS is the right one for me.

ROCKYTOP2
04-30-2010, 12:26 PM
I'm currently running Dunlop SP Sport 01 DSST RunOnFlats on my car which is an Ultra High Performance Summer tire. I really like the way these tires handle but they ride a tad too firm for me so I most likely won't replace them with the same tire.

I live in an area where snow is a major factor in the winters so I am looking at replacing my OEM tires with an Ultra High Performance All-Season tire once winter rolls around. I've debated getting 2 sets of dedicated snow tires but I don't have a lot of space to store these as I already have dedicated snow tires for my other car.

I've narrowed down my choices to the tires shown above. I've heard numerous Bimmerfest members compliment the Contis and the Michelins but wanted to hear what everyone else had to say and am curious as to how people are going to vote.

I hate these tires... I had the worst luck with them ever...went to HRZ III. Love em

vadim76
04-30-2010, 12:32 PM
I am going to need new tires soon and was looking into Continentals. But I talked to 2 people at Discount tire and the both said that Continental tires have a horrible sidewall support compared to Michelins. So, I will be considering the Michelins instead.

grateful1
04-30-2010, 12:57 PM
I hate these tires... I had the worst luck with them ever...went to HRZ III. Love em

I'm assuming you are referring to the Dunlops? Who makes the HRZ III and how do you like them from a ride, handling and performance standpoint?

Solidjake
04-30-2010, 12:59 PM
You can get the best all seasons but it will still suck in the snow. Just get high performance summer tires and check craigslist now for snow tires, they should be around 400 for a like new set.

grateful1
04-30-2010, 01:09 PM
The thing about what others say about the tires they have experience with is sort of biased.. Most are going to say they love their current <insert brand here> blah blah blah because well they invested their money into it already and don't want to look like a fool for getting a bad tire or whatever other reasons.

I go by what experts have tested and compared.
For what I need in a tire ( high performance grip, traction, and handling in all weather condition including light snow ) Conti DWS is the right one for me.

I agree, I go by what experts say too. However, I don't agree that people on the forum would hold back on the fact that they don't like the tires that they put on their cars simply because they spent the dough and don't want to look stupid. I know you are generalizing but I honestly would tell folks here on the forum if I hated a tire that I bought. I don't really care if people that I will most likely never meet think if I am stupid. I guess I would share why I hated a characteristic of the tire so somebody in my shoes wouldn't regret buying the tire without knowing what I experienced. So in a sense, experience does weigh in on making the right choice in purchasing a tire which ultimately will make it even that more awesome to drive my dope ass ride.

In any case, I still want to hear what other members that drive the same car as I do of their opinion. I know that peoples preferences are subjective but I am still interested in hearing what other people have to say.

grateful1
04-30-2010, 01:11 PM
You can get the best all seasons but it will still suck in the snow. Just get high performance summer tires and check craigslist now for snow tires, they should be around 400 for a like new set.

Point taken but I don't want to have to store 4 sets of winter tires. My other car already has 2 sets then I would need to buy an additional 2 for the bimmer.

sdbrandon
04-30-2010, 01:17 PM
I installed the DWS a few weeks ago. They came with a guarantee of return if I did not like them.

As others have said, these tires are the new A/S benckmark to beat.

You would be crazy not to try them when Conti will take them back if you don't like them.

The ride better than OEM run flats, the vehicle is quieter than when new. 50k mile tread wear to boot. :thumbup:

BruceOmega
04-30-2010, 02:09 PM
FWIW,

I replaced the OEM Goodyear Eagle RS-A tires on my car with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus. These are 225/50-17 on a 2008 535Xi. I have been extremely pleased with the Michelins and they have performed exceptionally well in a variety of road conditions, including moderate amounts of snow this past winter.

Bruce

chazmink
04-30-2010, 02:31 PM
I replaced Potenzas on my Saab 9-5 with Pilota and thought the Michelins were way better, especially much quieter. That said, when I replace the tires on my Bimmer I will probably go with the Contis based on the overall ratings on tirerack.com and the fact that I had great success with them on my Porsche 968s. No other tire I had on those cars had any traction whatsoever in the snow and the Contis were terrific.

dimaria
04-30-2010, 02:41 PM
I've had great experiences with Continentals on several different vehicles.

TRS550
04-30-2010, 04:29 PM
My last car was a 96 328 with a 5 spd. I ran a set of P Zero M+S on it year round. It did fine in the snow. I also ran Yoko Advan S's and they did fine as well. You can't go off road but for driving home on the interstate for 26 miles in 4-5 inches of snow they did the job.

grateful1
05-02-2010, 12:21 PM
I've had great experiences with Continentals on several different vehicles.

What are you running now?

dimaria
05-02-2010, 06:57 PM
What are you running now?

I am running Conti TouringContacts on my 323, but Bridgestone RFT's on my 550.

grateful1
05-05-2010, 04:49 AM
The voting is virtually tied between the Contis and Michelins. I think that these are both great tires. On one hand you have the Pilots which have been on the market way longer and have a proven track record and on the other hand you have the DWSs that are really new to the market but have stellar reviews. I guess I was hoping for a clear winner but I think we may end up with a tie.

WillInDenver
05-05-2010, 08:20 AM
I had a set of Pilot Sport A/S tires on our Audi allroad. They performed very well but only lasted 18,000 miles. This could have had something to do with the car, which did go through tires quickly - but I got more than that out of every other brand I used on it.

There's another thread out here somewhere, initiated by former E60 guru Stream, on the Potenza RE960AS tires, with very much enthusiasm from people who have used them. Check it out; I bet a search on "Stream Potenza RE960AS" would find it.

BTW, I am with you, I have the same Dunlops on my car and plan to move to all seasons when they wear out, which unfortunately won't be too soon because I use snows in the winter. I just switched my snows back over to my summer tires a few weeks ago, actually, and I will confidently say that, while I like the more confident handling of the summer tires, the snows are more compliant and provide an overall more enjoyable experience.

None of the tires you mentioned are going to let you down in the handling department unless you are either running your car on the track or wantonly breaking traffic laws. I think 99% of us would be completely satisfied with the performance of any of these A/S tires.

If I were you, I might just buy what you find on sale at Costco.

grateful1
05-05-2010, 09:03 AM
There's another thread out here somewhere, initiated by former E60 guru Stream, on the Potenza RE960AS tires, with very much enthusiasm from people who have used them. Check it out; I bet a search on "Stream Potenza RE960AS" would find it.

Thanks for the info. I read both of these posts and there seems to be several members that love the 960s and people that absolutely hate them. I guess it goes to show that making a purchase on tires really depends on your driving style and what you are expecting from the ride. Both of these posts are included below.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=272775

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366830

If I were you, I might just buy what you find on sale at Costco.

I have purchased 5 sets of tires from Costco and have either went with Bridgestones or Michelins (probably because that's all they sell). If I decide to buy the Pilots or 960s I will most likely go to Costco because the price can't be beat. Not too worried about the free tire rotations as I am running a staggard set-up and can't rotate them anyway. However, I am still torn between which tire to get. I can definately run my current Dunlops until winter as the tires have a ton of tread left but when the decision comes I think it's still going to be between the Conti DWS, Michelin Pilot and Bridgestone 960s. I have yet to hear anyone make a complaint about the DWS or Pilots but based on the above links have read people complaining about the 960s. I know that the DWSs are new so perhaps over the next few months compliants will come out of the woodwork. I do find it intersting that the only complaint about the Pilots are on treadlife (on certain cars) but never about handling or ride.

mikeglenn
05-05-2010, 10:24 AM
I tried to order Continental Extreme Contact DWS tires in 225/50R17 size. These have been on national back order for more than a month. I first tried to order these in March and was told to try again in April. Continental's distributor briefly had tires in April, but quickly sold out. I was told to try again in June.

Frustrated, I purchased my second choice, Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus. These arrived in 3 days. I am happy with the performance of these Michelin tires, although these were about $40 more per tire than the Continental.

I am aware that Continental DWS performed better in Tire Rack snow tests than the Michelin tires, but wonder if the advantage will fade when the "S" letter in the DWS tread is worn? The Michelin Pilot Sport AS has a potential advantage as the tires wear in the TriFusion Compound that molds three different tread compounds side-by-side using Michelin's "C3M" tire manufacturing process, which might result in an area that enhances snow and cold weather traction for a longer portion of the tire life.

sdbrandon
05-05-2010, 04:09 PM
I tried to order Continental Extreme Contact DWS tires in 225/50R17 size. These have been on national back order for more than a month. I first tried to order these in March and was told to try again in April. Continental's distributor briefly had tires in April, but quickly sold out. I was told to try again in June.

Frustrated, I purchased my second choice, Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus. These arrived in 3 days. I am happy with the performance of these Michelin tires, although these were about $40 more per tire than the Continental.

I am aware that Continental DWS performed better in Tire Rack snow tests than the Michelin tires, but wonder if the advantage will fade when the "S" letter in the DWS tread is worn? The Michelin Pilot Sport AS has a potential advantage as the tires wear in the TriFusion Compound that molds three different tread compounds side-by-side using Michelin's "C3M" tire manufacturing process, which might result in an area that enhances snow and cold weather traction for a longer portion of the tire life.

Pure speculation at this point. In this case, I would trust the trierack customer reviews which give the nod to DWS.

However, the Michelin is still a good choice.

mikeglenn
05-05-2010, 06:52 PM
Pure speculation at this point. In this case, I would trust the trierack customer reviews which give the nod to DWS.

However, the Michelin is still a good choice.

I acknowledge that I was speculating on the affects of wear on snow capabilities, but not without some basis. Continental states the following on its web page regarding the DWS tires:

"Tread Wear Indicators:
Consumer friendly indicators alert drivers about tire's performance level in Dry, Wet, and Snow conditions.
DWS indicates tire is tuned for optimum performance (D for Dry, W for Wet, S for Snow).
When indicators disappear, tire is no longer tuned for optimum performance in that particular road condition."

So after how many miles will the S indicator for snow disappear and how much will snow capabilities degrade with this treadwear are valid questions in my view, particularly for those of us driving in climates with more snow. I admit that I do not have the answers.

One more piece of data to consider, there are 415 customer reviews of the DWS tires on Tire Rack, but 361 (87%) of these are from owners that have driven less than 5,000 miles on these tires. In fairness, the few reviews from those that have driven higher miles on the DWS tires appear generally positive.

There are 256 customer reviews of the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus and 171 (67%) of these are from owners that have driven less than 5,000 miles on these tires.

I do not question that the Continental DWS tires are top rated by Tire Rack customers and well-reviewed. However, this survey data may merit some closer examination regarding the relative importance of the rated attributes and the statistical significance of the differences.

grateful1
05-07-2010, 10:20 AM
I acknowledge that I was speculating on the affects of wear on snow capabilities, but not without some basis. Continental states the following on its web page regarding the DWS tires:

"Tread Wear Indicators:
Consumer friendly indicators alert drivers about tire's performance level in Dry, Wet, and Snow conditions.
DWS indicates tire is tuned for optimum performance (D for Dry, W for Wet, S for Snow).
When indicators disappear, tire is no longer tuned for optimum performance in that particular road condition."

So after how many miles will the S indicator for snow disappear and how much will snow capabilities degrade with this treadwear are valid questions in my view, particularly for those of us driving in climates with more snow. I admit that I do not have the answers.

One more piece of data to consider, there are 415 customer reviews of the DWS tires on Tire Rack, but 361 (87%) of these are from owners that have driven less than 5,000 miles on these tires. In fairness, the few reviews from those that have driven higher miles on the DWS tires appear generally positive.

There are 256 customer reviews of the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus and 171 (67%) of these are from owners that have driven less than 5,000 miles on these tires.

I do not question that the Continental DWS tires are top rated by Tire Rack customers and well-reviewed. However, this survey data may merit some closer examination regarding the relative importance of the rated attributes and the statistical significance of the differences.

Informative, interesting and points well taken.

grateful1
06-04-2010, 05:58 PM
I have run across very few bad reviews for the DWS. Found this one on the M3forum.net. There are varying opinions as the thread goes on.

http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=282898