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jlanzone
05-05-2010, 12:45 PM
Had the usual HPFP on my CPO 535i. The car ran so badly I had to have it towed 70 miles to the dealer. My wife had to drive me there to pick up the loaner . This is the second HPFP the car has had (2008, 40,000 miles). I left it there overnight. I get a call today the car is ready. Nothing was replaced, just reprogrammed. When I asked what will prevent the problem from happening again , no answer was given from the SA. You could tell he felt the HPFP should have been replaced with the new improved version and he pretty much told me that would happen when I had the car towed in yesterday. I knew I should not have bought this car after reading about these issues. I cannot believe that BMW would be willing to piss off a repeat customer (this is my fourth BMW, third from this dealer) for the price of this part. I am sure the programming costs when they replace the pump eventually (they will, sooner or later) cost more than the part and they had to spend hours reprogramming it today.

mleerob
05-05-2010, 12:48 PM
Not good news for us fellow 535i owners.
Why does BMW allow this to continue? So much for the added cost of a CPO.

aficionado
05-05-2010, 12:54 PM
If it's not broke, why replace it?

Software is all you need.

Does the car drive differently, like turbo lag, after the software update?

jlanzone
05-05-2010, 03:43 PM
I will let you know when I pick it up. I could not get down there (Jacksonville) today. Is this a software issue or is it the HPFP issue? On previous threads it appeared to be some hardware that needed replacing. I hope you are right. I do not want this to become a recurring issue as it has all the earmarks of being.

Beha
05-05-2010, 03:45 PM
Did the dealer pay for the towing and related cost?

mleerob
05-05-2010, 04:09 PM
Had the usual HPFP on my CPO 535i. The car ran so badly I had to have it towed 70 miles to the dealer. My wife had to drive me there to pick up the loaner . This is the second HPFP the car has had (2008, 40,000 miles). I left it there overnight. I get a call today the car is ready. Nothing was replaced, just reprogrammed. When I asked what will prevent the problem from happening again , no answer was given from the SA. You could tell he felt the HPFP should have been replaced with the new improved version and he pretty much told me that would happen when I had the car towed in yesterday. I knew I should not have bought this car after reading about these issues. I cannot believe that BMW would be willing to piss off a repeat customer (this is my fourth BMW, third from this dealer) for the price of this part. I am sure the programming costs when they replace the pump eventually (they will, sooner or later) cost more than the part and they had to spend hours reprogramming it today.

Ther is a new improved version. But the problem can be solved via reprogramming.
I like my 535i car a lot. It's fun to drive,and it's a 4 door sedan.
This is the problem I keep reading about.
Do the 2010 models have the new improved version as OEM?

HokieXDriver
05-05-2010, 06:07 PM
Based on everything we've heard in these forums, a hardware swap does not fix the problem. My guess is the fix is some combination of hardware and software.

grateful1
05-05-2010, 08:07 PM
jlanzone, which model car do you have that this happened to? I am guessing you have a 535 but was confused because your user profile indicates that you have a 04 X5 which I believe is a V8.

Beha
05-06-2010, 03:27 PM
Did the dealer pay for the towing and related cost?

Anybody know if dealership will reimburse towing costs due to HPFP??

mleerob
05-06-2010, 03:34 PM
Had the usual HPFP on my CPO 535i. The car ran so badly I had to have it towed 70 miles to the dealer. My wife had to drive me there to pick up the loaner . This is the second HPFP the car has had (2008, 40,000 miles). I left it there overnight. I get a call today the car is ready. Nothing was replaced, just reprogrammed. When I asked what will prevent the problem from happening again , no answer was given from the SA. You could tell he felt the HPFP should have been replaced with the new improved version and he pretty much told me that would happen when I had the car towed in yesterday. I knew I should not have bought this car after reading about these issues. I cannot believe that BMW would be willing to piss off a repeat customer (this is my fourth BMW, third from this dealer) for the price of this part. I am sure the programming costs when they replace the pump eventually (they will, sooner or later) cost more than the part and they had to spend hours reprogramming it today.

Did you push the SOS button?

Do you still regreat purchasing the 535i ?

bimmerguyjoey
05-06-2010, 08:35 PM
What % of 535i's have this problem? Just looking for a ballpark % e.g. 10% 25% 50% etc.

Does anyone know?

Munich77
05-06-2010, 08:38 PM
What % of 535i's have this problem? Just looking for a ballpark % e.g. 10% 25% 50% etc.

Does anyone know?

I think the % is small enough not to have warranted a general recall yet. Not sure how many cars have the HPFP problem and not sure what triggers it.

Nube1kenobi
05-06-2010, 09:25 PM
Anybody know if dealership will reimburse towing costs due to HPFP??

If you are still covered by Roadside Assistance, they handle everything.

Kzang
05-07-2010, 08:52 AM
What % of 535i's have this problem? Just looking for a ballpark % e.g. 10% 25% 50% etc.

Does anyone know?

Just in this forum, I would say 40% but that is skewed because when people have issues with their car they come here and post the said issue.

However, I think its very close to that % or BMW would not have guaranteed extended warranty on 2007 - 2008 cars.

djfitter
05-07-2010, 09:03 AM
Just in this forum, I would say 40% but that is skewed because when people have issues with their car they come here and post the said issue.

However, I think its very close to that % or BMW would not have guaranteed extended warranty on 2007 - 2008 cars.

:bs: NO way it is that high. :tsk:

dj

mleerob
05-07-2010, 09:04 AM
What % of 535i's have this problem? Just looking for a ballpark % e.g. 10% 25% 50% etc.

Does anyone know?


You will not hear from the huge amount of BMW owners,that do not use this forum.
I have just about all my questions answered,and will leave it soon myself.
It is a helpful place for new BMW owners,but some are rude for no aparant reason.
But I did learn a lot abut these cars, which are very different than all other cars I have owned.

Kzang
05-07-2010, 09:07 AM
:bs: NO way it is that high. :tsk:

dj

Pfft.. its "MY OPINION" based on My observation here.. it doesn't mean its true...

lol.

djfitter
05-07-2010, 11:45 AM
What % of 535i's have this problem? Just looking for a ballpark % e.g. 10% 25% 50% etc.

Does anyone know?

Pfft.. its "MY OPINION" based on My observation here.. it doesn't mean its true...

lol.

bimmerguyjoey asked if anybody KNEW, not give me a guess. If it was anywhere near 40% there would have been a recall, not just an extension of the warranty. :tsk:

dj

Kzang
05-07-2010, 12:41 PM
bimmerguyjoey asked if anybody KNEW, not give me a guess. If it was anywhere near 40% there would have been a recall, not just an extension of the warranty. :tsk:

dj

I guess his comment about the "ballpark" means to be more accurate.

Learn english dude.

djfitter
05-07-2010, 12:48 PM
I guess his comment about the "ballpark" means to be more accurate.

Learn english dude.

Let's not get insulting. Your the one that made, in "MY OPINION", the outlandish percentage estimate and I called you on it. It has nothing to do with my English comprehension DUDE. A Ball park figure still needs to come from some fact, not just YOUR observance of a forum.

dj

mleerob
05-07-2010, 12:51 PM
If 40% of every car had to be towed,and repared for this issue, it would not continue IMO.

pointandgo
05-08-2010, 07:11 AM
I think the % is small enough not to have warranted a general recall yet. Not sure how many cars have the HPFP problem and not sure what triggers it.

NHTSA's Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) did officially investigate the HPFP fuel pump failures way back in 2008 (ref: PE08-032, of 4/28/2008). At that time there were only a total of 19 complaints on record (!). My recent check if NHTSA's database shows approx. 150 with the 1, 3, and 5-series. In closing the investigation on 8/15/08, NHTSA indicated that "only" 4% of potential HPFP failures might result in car "stalls" (thus presenting a potential safety hazard to owner's). It seems unlikely that the investigation will be re-opened, but not impossible.

Bart001
05-08-2010, 07:16 AM
Did the dealer pay for the towing and related cost?

Dealers don't warranty cars, so why would a dealer pay for towing?

Ralph III
05-08-2010, 05:32 PM
I think the % is small enough not to have warranted a general recall yet. Not sure how many cars have the HPFP problem and not sure what triggers it.

As I researched it was indeed a fuel pump issue and not a software or combination thereof?

It only affected cars manufactured at a certain German plant due to them using a different supplier for the fuel pump.

The percentage of 535i's was supposed to be low as mostly affected the 3 series.

BTW, you don't have to have a cpo as they extended the warranty on that particular part versus a recall.

Nube1kenobi
05-08-2010, 06:17 PM
I will let you know when I pick it up. I could not get down there (Jacksonville) today. Is this a software issue or is it the HPFP issue? On previous threads it appeared to be some hardware that needed replacing. I hope you are right. I do not want this to become a recurring issue as it has all the earmarks of being.

You can listen to the music or listen to the noise - Confucios said, (or was that Beavis?)

PolkNole
05-09-2010, 08:59 AM
Just in this forum, I would say 40% but that is skewed because when people have issues with their car they come here and post the said issue.

However, I think its very close to that % or BMW would not have guaranteed extended warranty on 2007 - 2008 cars.

I'd agree with 40% on this forum, but most of them reporting are posters with a post count of under 10.

I don't think the actual problem guesstimate of 40% is in the ballpark. I don't think that figure is even close to being in the tricounty area of the ballpark.

Beha
05-09-2010, 03:06 PM
Dealers don't warranty cars, so why would a dealer pay for towing?

So they would bill the factory rep. BMWNA....

E92-Lighting
05-10-2010, 10:43 AM
i think 40% is a bit high, i think its lower than that

grateful1
05-10-2010, 11:52 AM
NHTSA's Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) did officially investigate the HPFP fuel pump failures way back in 2008 (ref: PE08-032, of 4/28/2008). At that time there were only a total of 19 complaints on record (!). My recent check if NHTSA's database shows approx. 150 with the 1, 3, and 5-series. In closing the investigation on 8/15/08, NHTSA indicated that "only" 4% of potential HPFP failures might result in car "stalls" (thus presenting a potential safety hazard to owner's). It seems unlikely that the investigation will be re-opened, but not impossible.

This stat is meaningful only to a certain degree. There could have been hundreds or thousands of instances in which an owner didn't report their HPFP failure to NHTSA.

As for my next comment, let me first preface it by stating that I am just the messenger and can't back up this claim from a statistical or scientific perspective. I brought my car into the dealer last week for them to look at a few things. I went on a test ride with one of the more seasoned mechanics at the dealership and wanted to get his thoughts on the notrious HPFP issue that seems to plague some of the N54s. He emphatically stated that all original HPFP that were installed in a pre-2010 N54 engine will at some point in time fail. I know that this is just one opinion out of many but I thought I would share what this dude's sentiments were. I also know that he has only serviced the cars that come into his shop and can't speak for all N54s on the road. So there may be little or a lot of truth to what he is saying. I guess only time will tell but it is a little disturbing to hear this dude reply in such a manner. He did state that he has yet to see the newest iteration of the HPFP that is currently out fail but again I guess only time will tell.

pointandgo
05-10-2010, 12:05 PM
This stat is meaningful only to a certain degree. There could have been hundreds or thousands of instances in which an owner didn't report their HPFP failure to NHTSA.

As for my next comment, let me first preface it by stating that I am just the messenger and can't back up this claim from a statistical or scientific perspective. I brought my car into the dealer last week for them to look at a few things. I went on a test ride with one of the more seasoned mechanics at the dealership and wanted to get his thoughts on the notrious HPFP issue that seems to plague some of the N54s. He emphatically stated that all original HPFP that were installed in a pre-2010 N54 engine will at some point in time fail. I know that this is just one opinion out of many but I thought I would share what this dude's sentiments were. I also know that he has only serviced the cars that come into his shop and can't speak for all N54s on the road. So there may be little or a lot of truth to what he is saying. I guess only time will tell but it is a little disturbing to hear this dude reply in such a manner. He did state that he has yet to see the newest iteration of the HPFP that is currently out fail but again I guess only time will tell.

NHTSA had stated from previous investigation experience that for every complaint they receive, about 40 go unreported. This is perhaps a ballpark figure. The key point to re-opening an investigation would be the presence of a continued safety hazard such as an increase in vehicle owner's reporting vehicle stalls in traffic or more crashes, injuries associated with this problem. On the other hand, any citizen may petition NHTSA to open or re-open a safety investigation.

PolkNole
05-10-2010, 07:32 PM
pointandgo, to be accurate, the NHTSA stated that 4% of warranty claimants "claimed" their car stalled, but when pressed on that, the reality was that he car did not stall, but rather entered reduced power mode. Only 1% of HPFP claimants' cars actually stalled. The NHTSA deemed this issue not worthy of additional tax resources and closed the review.

pointandgo
05-10-2010, 07:55 PM
pointandgo, to be accurate, the NHTSA stated that 4% of warranty claimants "claimed" their car stalled, but when pressed on that, the reality was that he car did not stall, but rather entered reduced power mode. Only 1% of HPFP claimants' cars actually stalled. The NHTSA deemed this issue not worthy of additional tax resources and closed the review.

From ODI's Closing Resume (PE08-032) of 8/15/08:
"Only four percent of the complaints to ODI and BMW indicate that an engine stall occurred."

pointandgo
05-10-2010, 08:06 PM
Show me where NHTSA was "pressed on that"

PolkNole
05-10-2010, 08:25 PM
From ODI's Closing Resume (PE08-032) of 8/15/08:
"Only four percent of the complaints to ODI and BMW indicate that an engine stall occurred."

Yes, 4% of complaints, but the ODI also says many of the complainers confused reduced power mode with a stall...


ODI'S ANALYSIS OF WARRANTY DATA CLAIMS INDICATING POSSIBLE STALL INCIDENTS ESTIMATES THAT THE RATE AT THREE YEARS IN SERVICE WOULD BE LESS THAN 1.0% OF THE POPULATION (NOTE THAT SOME OF THE CLAIMS INDICATING STALL DO NOT APPEAR TO INVOLVE ACTUAL ENGINE STALLS, BUT RATHER OPERATION AT REDUCED ENGINE POWER). ODI'S ANALYSIS OF CONSUMER COMPLAINTS DETERMINED THAT ABOUT HALF DESCRIBE THE CONSEQUENCE OF THE FAILURE AS OPERATION IN LIMP MODE, 27 PERCENT INDICATE THE PROBLEM RESULTED IN A HARD START OR NO START CONDITION AND 19 PERCENT STATE THAT THE PROBLEM WAS DETECTED BY ILLUMINATION OF THE MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP OR A MINOR DRIVEABILITY SYMPTOM.

pointandgo
05-10-2010, 08:44 PM
My analysis of current ODI complaints indicates well over 4% of complaints indicate a complete break-down of the vehicle (stall) in traffic, etc. There are over 150+ complaints now for 1, 3, and 5 series vehicles. Do you work for BMW?

PolkNole
05-10-2010, 08:46 PM
No, I just like sticking to facts.

pointandgo
05-10-2010, 09:11 PM
NHTSA speculated (did not verify) that the complaints "did not appear" to involve actual engine stalls, but rather operation at reduced speeds, nevertheless, the complaints to ODI and NHTSA indicated (4%) engine stalls. Perhaps the consumers were confused if their car was operating at "reduced speeds" or "stalled"? Nevertheless, a higher number of complaints now vs. 2008, indicates that "stalls" are an unfortunate, more common occurence, even for defenders of this problem.

djfitter
05-10-2010, 09:14 PM
NHTSA speculated (did not verify) that the complaints "did not appear" to involve actual engine stalls, but rather operation at reduced speeds, nevertheless, the complaints to ODI and NHTSA indicated (4%) engine stalls. Perhaps the consumers were confused if their car was operating at "reduced speeds" or "stalled"? Nevertheless, a higher number of complaints now vs. 2008, indicates that "stalls" are an unfortunate, more common occurence, even for defenders of this problem.

What does this mean? :confused:

dj

PolkNole
05-10-2010, 09:17 PM
[/B]
What does this mean? :confused:

dj

It means I shouldn't have corrected him. :rofl:

Nube1kenobi
05-10-2010, 09:28 PM
[/B]
What does this mean? :confused:

dj

It means I shouldn't have corrected him. :rofl:

Glad I kept quiet otherwise I would have been accused of receiving a BMW stipend as well. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

pointandgo
05-10-2010, 11:12 PM
I don't mind being corrected if that's in order. In reviewing the current 150+ HPFP complaints in NHTSA's 'complaint' database - a significant increase from the small sampling in 2008, the claims for complete failures (claimed breakdowns where the engine stopped) is about 25% (+/-3%). This excludes "limp mode" comments or complaints that didn't mention the engine condition. Clearly, however, even "limp mode" at 40 mph +/- in heavy traffic was a terrifying experience for the owner's, barely enough to get through lanes of traffic to the side of the road. In some investigations NHTSA will seek out an interview owners for first hand information. In others they will rely on the written VOQ submissions (such as with PE08-032). Consequently, I say that by NHTSA's own admission in 2008 it was only an "estimate" that 1% of the population would have stalls regardless of consumer claims (4%) to the contrary. The sampling was much too small.

JerseyGeorge
05-10-2010, 11:51 PM
let's not get insulting. Your the one that made, in "my opinion", the outlandish percentage estimate and i called you on it. It has nothing to do with my english comprehension dude. A ball park figure still needs to come from some fact, not just your observance of a forum.

Dj

ok

PolkNole
05-11-2010, 06:04 AM
I don't mind being corrected if that's in order.

I see your actions being one with an agenda, not of one who seeks the facts. You have come up with a conclusion and only choose to acknowledge the facts that fit it. You quote the NHTSA like it is the bible, but when facts point out that their conclusions go against yours, you discredit their findings.

Another item you are wrong about - NHTSA complaints have nothing to do with the sample size, because their investigation included the population of all BMW warranty claims, not NHTSA complaints. That sample was well large enough to derive conclusions from, which NHTSA did - that if a HPFP failure occurs, it does not result in a serious safety issue.

pointandgo
05-11-2010, 10:16 AM
I respectfully disagree. Read the comments submitted by consumers who have had their cars stall or go into limp mode in traffic. Many of them state that this is a safety issue. Some on their 2nd, 3rd pump.

mleerob
05-11-2010, 10:34 AM
Glad I kept quiet otherwise I would have been accused of receiving a BMW stipend as well. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

You kept quiet?
Since when? LOL

Nube1kenobi
05-11-2010, 01:21 PM
You kept quiet?
Since when? LOL

Okay. You got me there. I post a lot of nonsense just to be posting. :angel:

mleerob
05-11-2010, 01:35 PM
Okay. You got me there. I post a lot of nonsense just to be posting. :angel:

It's OK.
They are just posts from BMW drivers.
It's all good.

Nube1kenobi
05-11-2010, 05:11 PM
It's OK.
They are just posts from BMW drivers.
It's all good.

:cool:

jlanzone
06-02-2010, 11:00 AM
So far the reprogramming seems to have done the trick as the car has behaved flawlessly. I am keeping my fingers crossed as much as possible. BMW paid for the towing as this is a CPO vehicle. I called the dealer and they sent the the towning service. Hopefully I will not have to report any more bad news in the future about this issue. I have put about 4 thousand miles on the car since the repair/reprogramming.

Nube1kenobi
06-02-2010, 01:10 PM
Glad to hear it! :thumbup:

Kzang
10-28-2010, 06:36 PM
bimmerguyjoey asked if anybody KNEW, not give me a guess. If it was anywhere near 40% there would have been a recall, not just an extension of the warranty. :tsk:

dj


4 months later.... :angel:

pointandgo
10-28-2010, 06:57 PM
I'm baaack.
NHTSA has not yet posted the details of this recall, so we won't know the scope of it for a few days.