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View Full Version : 2008 E60 Audio Upgrade. Need Pro Tip Here...


300zxmuro
05-26-2010, 08:29 AM
Let us see if I can get some input here. :confused:

I have a 535i 2008 with NO L7.

WHAT I HAVE::rofl:
JL 500/1 v2
JL 300/4 v2
Sub 12W6 in a JL enclosure.

WHAT I WANT::yikes:
To replace 8 out of the 10 speakers in the car (the 4 4" and the 4 1" tweeters). I do not want to use the Subs under the seat. I also want to connect my 4 channel amp to the new speakers and the also connect the other amp to the sub on the trunk.

WHAT I DO NOT WANT:
To mess with the OEM stereo, iDrive or anything else in the dash. To have any problems with the OEM stereo. It has to be unnoticiable for the car.

WHAT I NEED FROM YOU:
1) What brand of components to buy. The speakers need to support high volume with the lowest distortion as possible.
2) Does the OEM stereo has pre-amp outputs for the amps?
3) IF Yes, where can I find a diagram?
4) If No, what needs to be done to connect the Amps?
5) How can the OEM Subs can be shut off?
6) Do I need to rewire the entire car or the OEM wiring can be used?
7) I heard about fiber optics in some parts of the wiring, where exactly is this located?
8) Warranty concerns?
9) Any other suggestion based on your experience or knowledge?:bigpimp:

I need any info you can provide to create a plan and show it to the installer. Those morons may not know the car and for them they will cut everything they can w/o worrying about anything.

Thanks again for your support!!!!!:thumbup::thumbup:

GoRavens
05-26-2010, 10:09 AM
You need to edit your "MEIN AUTO". It says, "Fully Loaded" and you are missing L7. :nono:

I would go to a local custom audio shop and get their recommendations then se what I can do fro myself or haggle a good price with them for the install since you have some of the components already.

Good luck.

300zxmuro
05-26-2010, 10:13 AM
You need to edit your "MEIN AUTO". It says, "Fully Loaded" and you are missing L7. :nono:

I would go to a local custom audio shop and get their recommendations then se what I can do fro myself or haggle a good price with them for the install since you have some of the components already.

Good luck.

Fully Loaded?? gotta be from my old BMW. I will change that. Thanks for noticing.

The problem with the local audio shop is that those morons do not know anything about european cars. They see a cable and they cut without knowing if it is fiber or copper. That is the reason I want to investigate to explain them how to do the work.

kognac
05-26-2010, 10:26 AM
you have two options for wiring....you can just do a simple line out converter and tap into the factory signal from the factory amplifier or you can add the MOST unit and plug and play with your pre outs already done. Difference in price is $50 vs $1300, respectively. If you got the $, go with the MOST unit. I can get it for you. As for what speakers to use for mids and highs, DYNAudio is the best choice but $$$$ (they produce the purest sound), you could go with Focal K2 Power (still not cheap, they are bright and a decent runner up to DYN, you can get the JL Evolutions Zr's or C5's for a less pricey option). All in all, it depends on your budget.

As for not using the factory 6" subs, I would do that, they will provide good midbass once you add the 12w6 and make your front stage nicer. Where are you located? I know a lot of high grade installers that I can refer you to. If you have any know how you could do this yourself:dunno: I recently upgraded my Logic 7 but only added 2 6w3v3's to fire through the ski hole I made. you can view it here http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5212768#post5212768 PM me with any more questions

GoRavens
05-26-2010, 10:27 AM
The problem with the local audio shop is that those morons do not know anything about european cars. They see a cable and they cut without knowing if it is fiber or copper. That is the reason I want to investigate to explain them how to do the work.

I hear ya. There is one shop near me that works on a lot of imports Porsche, MB & BMW. I would hope they know what they are doing, however you are going about it the correct way. Some of the service advisors at BMW are totally clueless... so you never know. That is why I like to do most things myself. Good Luck. You will be loving your BMW even more after it is set-up with your audio upgrade!!:bigpimp:

300zxmuro
05-26-2010, 12:03 PM
you have two options for wiring....you can just do a simple line out converter and tap into the factory signal from the factory amplifier or you can add the MOST unit and plug and play with your pre outs already done. Difference in price is $50 vs $1300, respectively. If you got the $, go with the MOST unit. I can get it for you. As for what speakers to use for mids and highs, DYNAudio is the best choice but $$$$ (they produce the purest sound), you could go with Focal K2 Power (still not cheap, they are bright and a decent runner up to DYN, you can get the JL Evolutions Zr's or C5's for a less pricey option). All in all, it depends on your budget.

As for not using the factory 6" subs, I would do that, they will provide good midbass once you add the 12w6 and make your front stage nicer. Where are you located? I know a lot of high grade installers that I can refer you to. If you have any know how you could do this yourself:dunno: I recently upgraded my Logic 7 but only added 2 6w3v3's to fire through the ski hole I made. you can view it here http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5212768#post5212768 PM me with any more questions

When you say "Simple Line Out Converter" do you mean this:

http://www.crutchfield.com/g_302950/Factory-System-Enhancers.html

MOST is too expensive for me right now.

You will keep the OEM Subs? don't you worry about distortion with a 4 channel amp? how are the subs are going to get the power?

I am located in 94538.

Thanks for the help, it is greatly appreciated.

WillInDenver
05-26-2010, 12:21 PM
Here is a thread (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=374389&highlight=wjgreer+upgrade) where we got into some good detail on the E60 audio upgrade. Check it out beginning with my post #11; it may provide some good reference.

kognac
05-26-2010, 04:01 PM
yes, an LC8 would work great (Audison BitOne would be better). The factory subs will still be powered by the factory amplifier so no worries on too much power to them. The only thing the line out converter does is expand your system for you to add more power for additional/replacement speakers. It taps into your factory speaker signals, processes them, and then sends those signals to your add-one amps and thus your aftermarket speakers leaving your factoy head unit in tac & unharmed. Your 500/1 will only power your 12w6 and the 300/4 will only power the mids & highs in doors if that is what you replace.

300zxmuro
05-26-2010, 05:14 PM
yes, an LC8 would work great (Audison BitOne would be better). The factory subs will still be powered by the factory amplifier so no worries on too much power to them. The only thing the line out converter does is expand your system for you to add more power for additional/replacement speakers. It taps into your factory speaker signals, processes them, and then sends those signals to your add-one amps and thus your aftermarket speakers leaving your factoy head unit in tac & unharmed. Your 500/1 will only power your 12w6 and the 300/4 will only power the mids & highs in doors if that is what you replace.

Makes sense to me. I believe this is what I need. I will get the LC8. Still have not define the brand of the speakers. I will check the others suggestions. Thanks for your help :thumbup::thumbup:

300zxmuro
05-26-2010, 05:19 PM
you have two options for wiring....you can just do a simple line out converter and tap into the factory signal from the factory amplifier or you can add the MOST unit and plug and play with your pre outs already done. Difference in price is $50 vs $1300, respectively. If you got the $, go with the MOST unit. I can get it for you. As for what speakers to use for mids and highs, DYNAudio is the best choice but $$$$ (they produce the purest sound), you could go with Focal K2 Power (still not cheap, they are bright and a decent runner up to DYN, you can get the JL Evolutions Zr's or C5's for a less pricey option). All in all, it depends on your budget.

As for not using the factory 6" subs, I would do that, they will provide good midbass once you add the 12w6 and make your front stage nicer. Where are you located? I know a lot of high grade installers that I can refer you to. If you have any know how you could do this yourself:dunno: I recently upgraded my Logic 7 but only added 2 6w3v3's to fire through the ski hole I made. you can view it here http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5212768#post5212768 PM me with any more questions

FOCAL K2 Power is the only one I can find as a component set 4" all other brands have bigger speakers. I also found similar specs for the Infinity Kappa but 75% cheaper. I guess they are not that good.

I had in my old BMW MB Quartz Premium I loved them and they also have them in set of 4"

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks man!:bigpimp:

JerseyGeorge
05-26-2010, 06:45 PM
I've had Infinity Kappa's before and I thought theey were very good!

kognac
05-26-2010, 09:19 PM
yes, the Infinity Kappa's are, well, ahhh, low-end. Bottom line is you get what you pay for. I use to have a set of MB Quartz as well and they were awesome. You will like the K2 Powers but beware, they are bright! I've done them in a few setups & customer is always happy (I like 'em too I just prefer DynAudio) Anyways, Call this guy, I think he is like 15 min from you. He will take care of you:thumbup:

Chris Foster
Owner
Audio Options
Livermore, CA
925-243-9901

JerseyGeorge
05-26-2010, 11:14 PM
yes, the Infinity Kappa's are, well, ahhh, low-end. Bottom line is you get what you pay for. I use to have a set of MB Quartz as well and they were awesome. You will like the K2 Powers but beware, they are bright! I've done them in a few setups & customer is always happy (I like 'em too I just prefer DynAudio) Anyways, Call this guy, I think he is like 15 min from you. He will take care of you:thumbup:

Chris Foster
Owner
Audio Options
Livermore, CA
925-243-9901

We all paid for BMW's here and look at the problems reported! You're a retailers wetdream!!!!

300zxmuro
05-26-2010, 11:31 PM
yes, the Infinity Kappa's are, well, ahhh, low-end. Bottom line is you get what you pay for. I use to have a set of MB Quartz as well and they were awesome. You will like the K2 Powers but beware, they are bright! I've done them in a few setups & customer is always happy (I like 'em too I just prefer DynAudio) Anyways, Call this guy, I think he is like 15 min from you. He will take care of you:thumbup:

Chris Foster
Owner
Audio Options
Livermore, CA
925-243-9901

THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION!!

Which model of Dynaudio will fit in the E60? I cannot find any model to be 4"

Thanks!

kognac
05-27-2010, 05:32 AM
You are welcome, let me know how it goes. There isnt a direct fit model, the factory door enclosure can be removed and modified to house them with no cutting on the car

kognac
05-27-2010, 05:37 AM
We all paid for BMW's here and look at the problems reported! You're a retailers wetdream!!!!

I do some retail myself but that is a code Ive always lived by. By a great product, take care of it, and it will last & perform. You can expect to not have some issues with anything made by man, we are not perfect. I own an x6 too and its had a few problems but I will not buy anything other than a bimmer because of the long standing reputation & drive-ability of their product. If your toyota has an issue, they dont give you a loaner until its repaired, that's on you. they dont include your maintenance, that's on you. You get what you pay for. If you dont like your bimmer, sell it and stop being sour.

WillInDenver
05-28-2010, 10:27 AM
The Bavarian Soundwerks Stage 1 upgrade replaces all of the 4" speakers and the tweeters. Their product is a little expensive, but the speakers are properly terminated to interface with the existing wire leads and it includes a decent toolkit. The speakers are private-label MB Quart units. They sound good, but an upgraded amplifier is necessary for any significant improvement in audio with that system - the OEM amplifier in the standard audio system is hideously underpowered.

I recently read that Blaupunkt discontinued their PnP Plug-and-Play amp series, which are designed to easily drop into OEM systems like ours. I am using one of their amps. It may not matter, as what makes their system plug-and-play is the optional cable they provide - it intercepts the output from the back of the head unit and delivers it to the inputs of the aftermarket amp. The amp input ends of the cable are terminated to fit the Blaupunkt PnP amp line, but it seemed to me that it would be easy enough to re-terminate them for any amp with a four channel line input.

300zxmuro
08-19-2010, 11:52 AM
Hey guys I am back with news and asking more support THANKS IN ADVANCE!!!!!

Here is what I have done so far:

Replaced all speakers to MB Quart Q series. ( 2 sets, front and rear)
Install a JL Audio 300/4
Install a JL 13W7
Install a JL 1000/1
Install Extended Battery
OEM subs were disconnected.

Now, I also HAD and EQ earthquake installed BUT The sound was NOT that good and ended up removing the EQ and installing a AudioControl DQL-8:

http://www.audiocontrol.com/231512/products/DQL--8-Eight-Channel-Line-Output-Converter-with-Auxiliary-Input-and-Digital-Signal-Processing.html

The quality definitely improved but still not that good, I am sure it could be improved.

I need to add a Line Driver to improve the signal strength from the OEM amp to the DQL-8.

Now, the sub does not kick very well.

This is what I need to know in order to understand how the DQL-8 needs to be configures at best using the OEM amps.

Question: How many OEM amps the car has? Knowing this I will be able to go back with my installers and let them know what to do.

What I think is that they have disconnected the subs and have not used that amp to feed the DQL-8.

Any input will be appreciate it

WillInDenver
08-20-2010, 06:05 PM
Now, the sub does not kick very well.The OEM has four channels plus a sub channel (maybe two) in standard audio and seven channels plus subs for Logic 7.

I assume that 13W7 is in the trunk. I tried that too, with a JL Audio 2x10" sealed subwoofer enclosure loaded with JL Audio W3v3 subwoofers. That rear seat really absorbs an incredible amount of low end; I could not believe how much output was happening in the trunk that I could not hear inside the car. I ended up going back to the Earthquake SWS-8s under the seats. They're not as loud, but since they are so close to my butt I can feel them, which helps the experience overall.

EDIT: The OEM standard audio amp provides a comically low amount of power to the subs - something like 27 watts IIRC. It's not useful in an aftermarket system IMO and IME.

Thegame6752
08-29-2010, 12:02 PM
Anyone know of a great dealer or installer in the Las Vegas area that could help me upgrade my system where I won't have any warrany issues breaking the seals in dash? I really want to upgrade my stereo experience and have no skills to try and do it myself so I/m reaching out to the Bimmer family for help. Thanks in advance.

mc5
08-29-2010, 02:48 PM
Any good local audio shop can do what you want just ask around. They will just add an amp and sub box in the trunk to boost your lows which should be enough. they wont be touching your dash.


Anyone know of a great dealer or installer in the Las Vegas area that could help me upgrade my system where I won't have any warrany issues breaking the seals in dash? I really want to upgrade my stereo experience and have no skills to try and do it myself so I/m reaching out to the Bimmer family for help. Thanks in advance.

300zxmuro
12-09-2010, 11:06 AM
Guys,

I am back with more questions. Actually only one more question.

I am having a power issue. When I raise the volume up to high having the SUB kicking the four channel speakers shut down. The sound comes back when I lower the volume or the sub power. I am sure is power because when driving in the highway it does fail that much. Furthermore speeding up in the city increases a little bit the volume and quality.

How can I increase the power (amperes) to the car? I know I can replace the alternator but that won't be a good choice.

Thanks!

WillInDenver
12-09-2010, 05:06 PM
Guys,

I am back with more questions. Actually only one more question.

I am having a power issue. When I raise the volume up to high having the SUB kicking the four channel speakers shut down. The sound comes back when I lower the volume or the sub power. I am sure is power because when driving in the highway it does fail that much. Furthermore speeding up in the city increases a little bit the volume and quality.

How can I increase the power (amperes) to the car? I know I can replace the alternator but that won't be a good choice.

Thanks!You could try a capacitor. They don't add amperes, but they do create a temporary reservoir of current that can be used to support very transient power needs.

However, capacitors won't solve upstream problems with amp clipping and shutdown that aren't related to current availability. I'm not sure we have enough info to make the recommendation with a lot of confidence.

300zxmuro
12-09-2010, 05:13 PM
You could try a capacitor. They don't add amperes, but they do create a temporary reservoir of current that can be used to support very transient power needs.

However, capacitors won't solve upstream problems with amp clipping and shutdown that aren't related to current availability. I'm not sure we have enough info to make the recommendation with a lot of confidence.

What I have is that small battery installed. It suppose to help. What I need is amperes to keep up with the JL 1000/1 I believe this amp needs to much current.

I was told by a friend who is in the biz to meassure the voltage of the battery in idle and the radio on at the volume I would ussually listen it to. He says that if the volts are less than 13V I am toast. I have not tried this yet but I am confident it is less than 13V.

300zxmuro
01-21-2011, 11:24 PM
You could try a capacitor. They don't add amperes, but they do create a temporary reservoir of current that can be used to support very transient power needs.

However, capacitors won't solve upstream problems with amp clipping and shutdown that aren't related to current availability. I'm not sure we have enough info to make the recommendation with a lot of confidence.

WJGreer, I appreciate your support since the beginning. I believe I will have to remove the 1000/1. No matter what I do I cannot get the bass I want. I may exchange it for another amp that may not consume too much power to avoid the 4 channel get into protection mode and cancelling the audio in the front and rear speakers. I also want to add the Earthquake SWS-8 you recommended.

Any thoughts about this change?

WillInDenver
01-23-2011, 02:41 PM
WJGreer, I appreciate your support since the beginning. I believe I will have to remove the 1000/1. No matter what I do I cannot get the bass I want. I may exchange it for another amp that may not consume too much power to avoid the 4 channel get into protection mode and cancelling the audio in the front and rear speakers. I also want to add the Earthquake SWS-8 you recommended.

Any thoughts about this change?
I'm still struggling too, a little, to be honest. Those earthquake subs are such an inexpensive, easy upgrade that you've just got to do that. When you hold one in your hand with the OEM sub in the other, you can feel the increased heft of the magnet and see the improvement in cone material.

But...I think we are limited here by BMW's choice in driver size and design. In this system, we've got 4 inch drivers responsible for the vast majority of sound spectrum, and only 4 of them in the standard system at that. I suspect that what you (and I) hear missing in the bass response may really be a low midrange deficiency. Exploring that as a possibility, I've tried sending more frequency to the subs - both the 8" earthquake units and the JL Audio 2x10 box I tried in the trunk for a while - and it seemed to me that those drivers can't handle midbass and low bass at the same time, both effectively.

I also believe that we are getting some equalization off of the head unit that may not be to our liking. In my system I only have bass and treble EQ points, which have to have ridiculously broad Q values that make them useless for tuning down low. So I have thought about trying out one of those units that claim to remove the OEM equalization and leave you with a clean slate (like the JL Audio Cleansweep) to EQ as you like with an aftermarket EQ. But, my car is going to be seven years old soon and it may be past the time for me to invest that kind of money or time into the system.

Certainly, the improvements I made were noticeable and worthwhile, but like you I still am not fully satisfied, particularly with the low end. I fear that we may have reached the point where we've done all we can without major surgery.

Probably not the answer you hoped for - but those are my thoughts. Keep me posted on how you move forward from here.

umermariner
05-31-2012, 11:42 AM
you have two options for wiring....you can just do a simple line out converter and tap into the factory signal from the factory amplifier or you can add the MOST unit and plug and play with your pre outs already done. Difference in price is $50 vs $1300, respectively. If you got the $, go with the MOST unit. I can get it for you. As for what speakers to use for mids and highs, DYNAudio is the best choice but $$$$ (they produce the purest sound), you could go with Focal K2 Power (still not cheap, they are bright and a decent runner up to DYN, you can get the JL Evolutions Zr's or C5's for a less pricey option). All in all, it depends on your budget.

As for not using the factory 6" subs, I would do that, they will provide good midbass once you add the 12w6 and make your front stage nicer. Where are you located? I know a lot of high grade installers that I can refer you to. If you have any know how you could do this yourself:dunno: I recently upgraded my Logic 7 but only added 2 6w3v3's to fire through the ski hole I made. you can view it here http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5212768#post5212768 PM me with any more questions

What if I just add an amp and sub in tight box in the trunk? Would it help???
Thanks