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View Full Version : How much HP/torque do you NEED?!


missing23
11-14-2003, 09:27 AM
I'd have to say that HP/torque #'s in the low to mid 200's is sufficient for 'spirited' everyday driving.

I was worried about 'losing power' in my move from M5 to ZHP but I have to say I have a LOT more fun in pushing the ZHP as pushing the M5 was near impossible in everyday driving.

I find myself in third gear, with a huge grin, a whole lot just because you are always (it seems) in the power band.

Mr. The Edge
11-14-2003, 09:29 AM
I'll settle for 190HP and 133 ft-lbs

The Roadstergal
11-14-2003, 09:30 AM
100-150hp and 100-190ft-lbs has been fine so far. :eeps:

marinakorp
11-14-2003, 09:34 AM
264 is not bad... but 300+ would be better :eeps:

flashinthepan
11-14-2003, 09:35 AM
My old VW bug was around 45hp If I remember right.

I never felt the urge to need a go-cart :rofl:

The Roadstergal
11-14-2003, 01:25 PM
I'd have to say that HP/torque #'s in the low to mid 200's is sufficient for 'spirited' everyday driving.

Hey - I'll be in Chicago over Thanksgiving. I should borrow my brother's clone of my car ;) and show you how much fun <200hp can be for spirited everyday driving. :D

Alex Baumann
11-14-2003, 01:28 PM
I have 305 hp on the Alpina (rumor has it, it has 320+), but I want more. :)

Kaz
11-14-2003, 01:49 PM
Depends on the weight and equipment of the car, really.

My old Mitsu Galant (which actually weighed less than my E46) had 160/160 and a slushie and felt sluggish. I promised myself my next car will have 200+bhp. Turns out I don't need that if the car is engineered differently, as I'm pretty happy with my 184/170. I'm not saying I couldn't use another 100 or 200, but I'd say 16-18lb/hp given good, usable horsepower would do it for me.

JonW
11-14-2003, 01:59 PM
I'm very happy with the 184 hp of my 325xi. With the 5 speed, there is enough power to have fun and feel a little push into the back of your seat. If I had 350+ hp, I'd floor it once in a while like I already do, but probably end up with some speeding tickets. I'm having fun with the 184. :thumbup:

The only time I ever want more is on the straight at a track. But if I was at 125 mph right before turn 1, rather than my typical 100 mph, the brakes wouldn't be up to the task. The brakes, power, and suspension make a nice package together. Very balanced. :)

marinakorp
11-14-2003, 02:01 PM
Depends on the weight and equipment of the car, really.

My old Mitsu Galant (which actually weighed less than my E46) had 160/160 and a slushie and felt sluggish. I promised myself my next car will have 200+bhp. Turns out I don't need that if the car is engineered differently, as I'm pretty happy with my 184/170. I'm not saying I couldn't use another 100 or 200, but I'd say 16-18lb/hp given good, usable horsepower would do it for me.

Agreed, my saturn had 125 or so and I would regularly beat the snot out of much higher powered cars... gotta love plactic budy panels for weight savings!


On a few occasions, I even beat a p car around pocono... in a bone stock saturn - 4 door (manual)

rost12
11-14-2003, 02:01 PM
Frankly, a 545i with around 320hp and 330lb.ft. would be enough for me. But too make me truly happy 400+ is a must :)

FlyingBMWman
11-14-2003, 02:20 PM
As the title says, it's all relative...

HPs influence top speed and if you drive around the US the limit to that is a prime deterrent. At present I'm based in Bimmer Country where top speed (except where otherwise posted) is "whatever you feel safe driving" or some such interpretation. Under those circumstances, my previous car's 207 HP seemed quite enough and it also gave me a top speed of about 210 km/h (about 130 mph), but once it broke down terminally (with a broken timing chain, at too high a mileage & age for redemption) I happened to choose a BMW 540i, which in Germany has 286 HP and a top speed of 250 km/h (ca 155 mph) and I've never regretted it even if I havent't yet tried max (it's winter now, snow tires are a must here). I love the way I can get past obstacles (which might be considering moving into my path) too quickly for them to register... That is, sometimes braking turns out to be the better option, and the Bimmer is well equipped for that too.
How do you guys get along with the strict US speeding limits (&fines)? How are they enforced anyway (probably differs from state to state? - my last visit to FL everyone -!- was speeding and the cops were seen to be not interested at all...) :dunno:

wrwicky
11-14-2003, 02:25 PM
And absolute power... well how much is a V-10 500hp M5 anyways?
or an Aprillia RSV-1000 Factory?

Until then, how about a 25hp 80cc shifter?

Mark Donahue (RIP) said that the 917-30 had enough power because it would spin the tires in top gear all the way to the braking zone on a long straight.

The Roadstergal
11-14-2003, 02:28 PM
How do you guys get along with the strict US speeding limits (&fines)? How are they enforced anyway (probably differs from state to state? - my last visit to FL everyone -!- was speeding and the cops were seen to be not interested at all...) :dunno:

It depends on where you are, yep. WA state is pretty draconian.

I wish they enforced lane discipline to the same extent. Illinios has speed minimums posted on the interstate... which reminds folk that it's also possible to go too slowly for safety. :rolleyes:

mbr129
11-14-2003, 02:32 PM
The Perf Pack 330i is PLENTY for a daily driver. I'd like to have something like a 280hp/260lb-ft Boxster in a few years as a fun weekend car, but my current car is plenty for me.

So in essence, low 200's on a 3000lb car is good enough for me as a daily driver. As a performance car, I'd want 300 for a 3000 lb car. Those would be the rough ratios. But numbers aren't everything.

*Now, as far as a family hauler (whether a wagon or SUV - in my case a wagon), torque is king and I can't get enough. That's why BMW and MB 3.0 diesels are great, ~200hp, but 360+ lb-ft of torque. Enough hp to make it a decent hwy car, but plent of torque to get of the line and merge when loaded with people and cargo (and excellent fuel economy to boot!).

FlyingBMWman
11-14-2003, 02:49 PM
It depends on where you are, yep. WA state is pretty draconian.

I wish they enforced lane discipline to the same extent. Illinios has speed minimums posted on the interstate... which reminds folk that it's also possible to go too slowly for safety. :rolleyes:

Amen. Same prob in Germany - ever try to overtake a truck only to be stopped by someone overtaking same just ahead of you without signaling & with a speed differential of << 1 mph wrt the truck?? AAAHRGH...

FlyingBMWman
11-14-2003, 03:02 PM
@ Roadstergal

I've never been to WA state - how are roads there? (I hope you didn't take "guys" in my previous post too literally?)

I've visited CA, Nevada in the West and 4 Midwest states as well as NY and FL but that's it in NA (apart from Ontario, Canada) ... Although the wide expanse of the Nevada roads still awes me (being used to German, or worse, Dutch roads - I think they count the cars per mile of highway in the hundred millions nowadays in Holland - awful) ;-)

The Roadstergal
11-14-2003, 03:09 PM
Amen. Same prob in Germany - ever try to overtake a truck only to be stopped by someone overtaking same just ahead of you without signaling & with a speed differential of << 1 mph wrt the truck?? AAAHRGH...

YES. :(

There are some great roads up here. Most of 'em are someone saying, "Hey, I know this road over here..." and it's great. Mt. St. Helens is absolutely awesome, great fun; you have to start early in the morning to get a clear shot, but it's really worth it. Chuckanut Drive is popular, but MHO overrated.

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FlyingBMWman
11-14-2003, 03:13 PM
@Roadstergal

At the risk of going slightly OT, which Miata is yours? (In Europe I think it's called MX-5, but I'm not sure). Awesome pics, BTW! Thanks!

glaws
11-14-2003, 03:21 PM
I am perfectly happy with my 333 HP, thank you very much.

The Roadstergal
11-14-2003, 04:07 PM
@Roadstergal

At the risk of going slightly OT, which Miata is yours? (In Europe I think it's called MX-5, but I'm not sure). Awesome pics, BTW! Thanks!
Hey, with as little hp as they have, it's on topic... ;) Mine is the one in my avatar. I took the pics from inside of it. Yeah, they're called MX-5s or Eunos Roadsters outside of the US (actually, I think it's Miata in Canada, too...).

nate
11-14-2003, 07:57 PM
It really depends on the purpose.

For urban driving, I don't really need a lot of power.

I would take an M5 over a ZHP, that's for damn sure.

tgravo2
11-14-2003, 10:53 PM
for my needs and to be completely happy, I'd say over 200

GimpyMcFarlan
11-15-2003, 09:44 AM
"Need" and "Want" are 2 different things... :)

I need 200+ but I want 333. :D

flashinthepan
11-15-2003, 10:48 AM
"Need" and "Want" are 2 different things... :)

I need 200+ but I want 333. :D

I think that sentance says it all for me !!!

In a perfect world I keep my 330 Convertible & add a MB E55 or 911tt for kicks.

ewwww how wicked :D

AF
11-15-2003, 02:07 PM
I would like about 250 hp and 260 lb ft. in my 330

I love the power but I can always use more . . .

KP
11-15-2003, 03:44 PM
When it comes to power, everyone wants more. But if you think about it, I think weight is more of an issue than the power itself (as mentioned on the previous posts). My ideal car would be under or at 3200lbs. without the driver, 3.5L inline six, around 320/350 (hp/torque). That would be the perfect setup for me for a FR car (front engine,rwd). Then again, those figures almost replicate the Alpina B3S and the M3 (except for the torque). The next stage after that would be a Carrera, then a 360 Modena. Beyond that is more than ambition for me. I'm happy with my 184/175, and of course I would like more :D . But with more horsepower comes more responsibility, and if I had more horsepower than I can handle, I wouldn't be worried about speeding tickets, but not being able to tame all that effectively. Driving schools are a must :thumbup:

Pinecone
11-16-2003, 04:03 PM
Funny, everyone thinks they have enough at whatever level. But spend some time in a car with more, and what you have now, will be too little. :)

The Roadstergal
11-16-2003, 04:31 PM
Funny, everyone thinks they have enough at whatever level. But spend some time in a car with more, and what you have now, will be too little. :)

I've driven Vance's S54 M at the performance center and to Z3 Fest, and Bob's at the road course they set up at Road Atlanta, and although the power is nice, I still wouldn't say my ~100 in the Miata is too little. It's still more of a car than I am a driver - it's just that the M is WAY more of a car than I am a driver.

Jspeed
11-17-2003, 10:52 AM
I'll take ~10HP/pound please...

Artslinger
11-17-2003, 12:28 PM
How much HP/torque do you need?


I can never get enough... and IMO BMW charges to much for HP.

ff
11-18-2003, 11:17 AM
I'd be just as happy with a 150-HP Accord, if it handled as well as a Bimmer. I'd probably be a lot less likely to aquire speeding tickets as well.

Salvator
11-18-2003, 11:54 AM
My old VW bug was around 45hp If I remember right.

I never felt the urge to need a go-cart :rofl:
My Bug (1967) has 50HP and my Bus (1967 Camper) has 60HP... Needless to say, the 184HP in my 325Ci feels very sporting by comparison... I have refrained from taking test drives in 330s or higher for fear that I won't be satisfied with my 325 when I get back...

Salvator
11-18-2003, 12:00 PM
Ohh, and by the way, in relation to the Go-Kart comment... I used to race a laydown Enduro kart that had Kawasaki single cylinder engine that put out a whopping 16HP... But, the whole package (kart and driver) probably topped out at 500lbs, (and much of that was driver, unfortunately) so top speed was around 100mph or so, and when you are laying on your back about 2 inches off the ground, it feels even faster... Acceleration sucked due to a centrifical clutch... Took care of my need for speed, though!

SergioK
11-18-2003, 12:27 PM
My Bug (1967) has 50HP and my Bus (1967 Camper) has 60HP... Needless to say, the 184HP in my 325Ci feels very sporting by comparison... I have refrained from taking test drives in 330s or higher for fear that I won't be satisfied with my 325 when I get back...

I know what you mean. I drove Raffi's 330ci and was amazed at how much power that car has on tap. If I ever drive an E46 M3... I might be tempted too much and want to get rid of my little 2.5l engine!

Lonni24
11-19-2003, 05:08 AM
Well i think 300+ is a good choice.

My car only has 125 hp, but it would like 240 hp, M3 engine :D

The strongest car was 306 hp SL 500 :thumbup: :thumbup: That was nice.