rough w/ the manual transmission...

[emilford]

I drove an automatic transmission car for the past 7 years. Just before that, I learned to drive on the Autobahns of Germany in my mom's manual transmission Benz. I figured going back to manual wouldn't be too big of a challenge, but it's proven to be a bit more difficult than I expected.

I can get around in my new car just fine. I still stall on occasion, but such occurences are few and far between. My problem is that the ride isn't smooth. I've yet to find my transission points for flawless gear shifting.

Is this something most new BMW drivers experience? Are there any techniques others can recommend to help better this? I'm sure it's just a matter of getting used to the car and practicing every now and then, but any other advice would be appreciated.

[dynosor]

SEE: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42173&highlight=shifting

[numbersguy]

I had a 92 Lexus ES300! That was one hot looking car back then. How many other cars of that era came with projector headlamps? Mine was one of the few five speeds sold. It was about the smoothest tranny and clutch I have ever experienced, although the car's handling left something to be desired.

Getting smooth with your new car is just a matter of practice. After driving it for another few thousand miles your shift points and clutch engagement gradually become unconscious. Just drive it every chance you get and have fun with that smooth reving motor. Learn to double-clutch your downshifts if you don't know how. It isn't necessary to do this with a synchronized gearbox, but playing with the clutch and motor like that will help your brain to learn the clutch and throttle characteristics more quickly. Have fun with it.

[bmw325]

I had a 92 Lexus ES300! That was one hot looking car back then. How many other cars of that era came with projector headlamps? Mine was one of the few five speeds sold. It was about the smoothest tranny and clutch I have ever experienced, although the car's handling left something to be desired.

Getting smooth with your new car is just a matter of practice. After driving it for another few thousand miles your shift points and clutch engagement gradually become unconscious. Just drive it every chance you get and have fun with that smooth reving motor. Learn to double-clutch your downshifts if you don't know how. It isn't necessary to do this with a synchronized gearbox, but playing with the clutch and motor like that will help your brain to learn the clutch and throttle characteristics more quickly. Have fun with it.

Interesting. I didn't realize that Lexus had offered a manual (aside from the current IS) at any point... I guess the first es300 was the only one?

[postoak]

Oh brother! Here we go again. There have been countless posts like this with someone stepping in and saying just try these techniques and you'll be able to shift smoothly eventually. :rolleyes:

The counter-posters either 1) are more physically skilled than most people (and therefore what they can do doesn't apply to the original poster), or 2) are non-detail people who think they're shifting smoothly when others would say they aren't, or 3) don't have actual experience with BMW clutches (I note that numbersguy doesn't appear to own a BMW).

Based on my own experience and having read many posts saying the same thing, no, you won't ever be able to make the kinds of shifts you want and have done in other cars. The BMW clutch is just not capable of being shifted smoothly, and quickly, unless you slip the clutch -- which is cheating. It's the nature of the beast.

Having said that, it did appear to me that my shifts got a little better around the 25,000 mile mark, probably because the clutch is wearing and getting a little less touchy.

[emilford]

I had a 92 Lexus ES300! That was one hot looking car back then. How many other cars of that era came with projector headlamps? Mine was one of the few five speeds sold. It was about the smoothest tranny and clutch I have ever experienced, although the car's handling left something to be desired.

Getting smooth with your new car is just a matter of practice. After driving it for another few thousand miles your shift points and clutch engagement gradually become unconscious. Just drive it every chance you get and have fun with that smooth reving motor. Learn to double-clutch your downshifts if you don't know how. It isn't necessary to do this with a synchronized gearbox, but playing with the clutch and motor like that will help your brain to learn the clutch and throttle characteristics more quickly. Have fun with it.My first car was a 92 Lexus ES300 as well, but it was automatic. I'd heard of manual versions, but they seemed to be fairly rare.

I'm not sure what you mean by double-clutching. Could someone explain?

Thanks for the other link, Dyno. I read a lot of what I'd figured most would say...practice and time is key.

[postoak]

emilford -- we posted simultaneously. I didn't look at that other link but I can post my own that will tell you that practice and time aren't key!

[numbersguy]

I note that numbersguy doesn't appear to own a BMW

My 325i is still on its way from Rosslyn. The one I test drove had some miles on it so I can't say it had a new clutch but I can say that it was CAKE to shift. And some of those shifts were at 6K, much to the consternation of the sales doofus.

Are you telling me I should have gone with an Acura TL instead?

[numbersguy]

I'm not sure what you mean by double-clutching. Could someone explain?

Double-clutching is one of those totally unnecessary but fun things that some people like to do with their cars. When downshifting (never on the upshift) you push the clutch in and move the lever to neutral then quickly let the clutch out and tap the throttle to make the tach needle jump, then push in the clutch and engage your gear normally. The idea is to get the transmission spinning faster when you engage the lower gear just as it would be if you had been upshifting into that gear. Long ago, before cars and trucks had syncromesh, it was actually necessary to do this when downshifting to have any hope of actually engaging a gear without grinding it big time. Actually, when coasting along in a freeway crawl, double clutching is about the only way to smoothly engage first gear because most gearbox synchronizers are not made to accomodate a rolling shift into first.

Doing this won't make driving easier it will make it harder and that's the point: shifting a lot and looking at the tach a lot and trying to match the speed of the motor to the speed of the drive shaft all contributes to the learning experience. We learn these things through repetition. When you increase the reps you increase the rate of learning. Driving a route that has lots of starts and stops instead of a long parkway cruise is another way of increasing those repetitions.

Some folks complain that the throttle on their Bimmers hangs open too long when then get off the gas so that they have to wait too long for the revs to drop. This is not a good thing if you want to shift quickly, but like any other car quirk it's something that you will get used to with practice.

[numbersguy]

Interesting. I didn't realize that Lexus had offered a manual (aside from the current IS) at any point... I guess the first es300 was the only one?

Lexus didn't really know who their customers were back in 1992. They actually made a lot of 5-speeds that first year, like maybe 20% or more, and then had a hard time selling them. When I sold it in 97 I got a lot of calls from Asian-sounding guys. As soon as I told them it wasn't an automatic they would lose all interest.

[flashinthepan]

Try a clutch stop,

My 330 had appx 2 inches of pedal free play I didnt like, much better now. UUC Motorwerks $20.00.

[TD]

The E46 clutch feel sucks. Period.

The reasons why have also been discussed ad naseum. Do a search if you really want to know.

But don't indict ALL BMW clutches (or clutch feel).

[postoak]

TD -- good point, my comments above apply only to the E46 -- which is all I have experience with. But that's what emilford was talking about too.

What's your take on other BMW clutches that you have personal experience with?

[nate]

The E46 clutch feel sucks. Period.

I like my clutch

[hmr]

The clutch stop idea is a good one for managing the micro-engagement point of the E46 clutch (assumming they're all the same). But, I don't have a clutch stop (though I did try one at one point). Instead, I depress the clutch just slightly past the high (dis)engagement point--i.e., you don't need to fully depress the clutch. It gives me much better smoothness and quicker shifting (especially from 1 to 2). It's taken me over 2 years to figure this out with my 5-speed. :yikes: The problem with clutch stops, in my opinion, is that there are moments or situations when depressing the clutch pedal all the way feels best, for example, at a standstill or in slow turns. I've been all over the map with regards to my E46's clutch and have even regretted getting the 5 speed for a while. But the latest technique has really helped.

[emilford]

The clutch stop idea is a good one for managing the micro-engagement point of the E46 clutch (assumming they're all the same). But, I don't have a clutch stop (though I did try one at one point). Instead, I depress the clutch just slightly past the high (dis)engagement point--i.e., you don't need to fully depress the clutch. It gives me much better smoothness and quicker shifting (especially from 1 to 2). It's taken me over 2 years to figure this out with my 5-speed. :yikes: The problem with clutch stops, in my opinion, is that there are moments or situations when depressing the clutch pedal all the way feels best, for example, at a standstill or in slow turns. I've been all over the map with regards to my E46's clutch and have even regretted getting the 5 speed for a while. But the latest technique has really helped.Definitely don't regret getting the 5 speed. My shifting has improved a great amount in just the past week. I find my shifting is smoothness when I drive more agressive...like the car wants to be driven. Man, what a gorgeous car!

[tgravo2]

I like my clutch
Me too :dunno:

It's better than the clutch my 98 Tacoma had :D

not that the Tacoma had a bad clutch, I liked it.

[Mr. The Edge]

I like my clutch

[Rob@UUC]

I had a 92 Lexus ES300! That was one hot looking car back then. How many other cars of that era came with projector headlamps?

Since you asked... BMW has had ellipsoid projector headlamps in the US since 1987, and a few models even had HIDs around that time.

But on to the important points at hand regarding clutch feel in the 3-series... emilford, you did not say what exact year and model you have, but I can offer some tips:

1) If equipped, remove the "lock valve" from the slave cylinder. See:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_techtip/techtips/check_valve.htm
The lock valve causes a mushy clutch take-up feel, especially in cold weather. Only some models have this, so please review the link above to see if it applies to your car.

2) If you have an E46 chassis ('99-'04+), you have a self-adjusting pressure plate in the clutch assembly. The idea is consistent clutch engagement point throughout the clutch's lifespan, but the result can be varying engagement point and other strange side-effects. The self-adjusting feature can be removed, but requires removal of the clutch assembly. This is expensive work that includes removal of the transmission.

3) Refining your shifting technique can improve your driving experience. See:
http://www.shortshifter.com/techniques2.htm

4) Beyond anything else- practice, practice, practice. Nothing improves your shifting skill other than paying attention to your shifting and working at making it better. I've been driving manual transmission cars for many years, but still work at improving my technique every time I drive.

5) There are other ways to improve the shifting mechanism in all BMWs. Forgive me if this sounds like a commercial, but I would suggest checking out our EVO3 shifter product to enhance the precision and feedback of the shifter assembly.

[postoak]

It is with some embarrassment that I make the following post because it makes me seem like a careless person and usually I'm one of the most detail-oriented people I know. BUT, I want to get this information out there in case anybody else has made the same mistake!

I fixed the jerky takeoff problem I had with my E46 clutch. I did it by switching to the proper grade of gasoline.

When I picked my car up in Munich the one thing I asked the Delivery Specialist was "What grade of gas do I use?" and I thought his answer was "regular". So, that's what I used in Germany, with good results, and when I got my car in the U.S., I continued using regular -- 87 octane. Last week, though, I was reading a post about octane and someone who also has a 325i posted that 91 octane was the required minimum. So, I pulled out the owners manual and verified that I had been using the wrong grade of gas for 25,000 miles! Around here, we have 87, 89, and 93 octane so I switched to 93. I didn't notice any difference in pickup (wasn't expecting much from posts I had read) but I got an unexpected bonus. When I first let out the clutch and the RPMs drop, the engine now responds more quickly to my accelerator pedal input and my takeoffs are smoother.

If this is the way my takeoffs had been from the start, I probably wouldn't have even thought about clutch being touchy -- although, really, it still is compared to other cars I've had.

So, there it is. If you are using below 91 octane gas -- stop it! Even if you are using 91, you might want to switch to 93 and see if your initial launches get a bit smoother.

[richard]

Now that cold weather is here, I've noticed my clutch is more "fussy" until the car is warmed up. More than a clutch issue, it's more a vague accelerator. The idle seems to bounce around more until the car is warm which makes launches kind of a hit and miss affair. Thankfully after a few blocks it goes away.

[The Roadstergal]

But don't indict ALL BMW clutches (or clutch feel).

The E30s I've driven, including mine, all have softer/more vague clutches than I'm used to. :dunno:

I did notice the Z4 had a more-vague feel. Might be the aforementioned CDV/lock valve, or might be my inexperience with the E46-type cluch. Unfortunately, I have not had the chance to drive an E46 M3 to compare. :D

[doeboy]

The E30s I've driven, including mine, all have softer/more vague clutches than I'm used to. :dunno:

I did notice the Z4 had a more-vague feel. Might be the aforementioned CDV/lock valve, or might be my inexperience with the E46-type cluch. Unfortunately, I have not had the chance to drive an E46 M3 to compare. :D

The E30 clutch is WAY better than the E46 clutch. I think it's the dual-mass flywheel that throws everyone off when they start driving an E46. Overall the E46 clutch is just numb and vague feeling like we've all mentioned here before. The degree of vagueness seems to vary betwen cars too. :dunno: The first day I picked up my car, I had an "interesting" time getting used to the darn thing. :madrazz: Now that I'm more used to the quirks, it's not as bad... though sometimes it is still a challenge at times.

[postoak]

Wow, I'm a slow learner, I guess, but I just learned another reason for my difficulty in making a smooth, fast standing-start shift (applies to other shifts too, to a certain extent). I have always rested the heel of my left foot on the floor and pressed in the clutch by rotating the toe-end of my foot forward and released the clutch by rotating it back. It never occurred to me until a couple of weeks ago that, because the BMW clutch has such a high engagement point, that that rotational movement wasn't great enough for a full engagement so I was subconsciously sliding my foot backward as well and it was often catching on the floor. Once I realized this, I experimented with placing the arch of my foot over the clutch pedal but that didn't work either because then the top of my shoe was catching on something. I came up with an unusual technique that keeps my shoe from hitting at the top and the bottom: I rotate my ankle downard/forward and place the ball of my foot on the clutch pedal and, I keep my heel well-away from the floor and do less rotational movement and more foward/backward movement of the whole foot and voila!, smooth shifts! :thumbup: Of course, people with smaller feet (I wear a size 11 shoe) or with a clutch stop installed wouldn't experience what I did so perhaps that's why some swear that starting up from first wasn't a problem for them.

Also, to recap on an earlier change I had made to the use of my RIGHT foot, instead of just pressing down when the RPMs begin to drop at engagement, I begin to press down just before I think that is going to happen and CONTINUE PRESSING DOWN right on through and past the point of full engagement.

If you are having trouble starting up smoothly or making the 1/2 shift smoothly, try making both these adjustments and see if it doesn't help.

[Bart B]

Hello guys. I know this is an old thread but I recently discovered a possible problem with my clutch pedal that I want to discuss with you.

Because of an emergency stop I had to jump on the brake and clutch pedal very hard. So hard that I even broke the clutch pedal stop. After this emergency action I noticed some small but significant clutch pedal travel sideways (not backward and forward as to engage or desengage but from left to right).
I only noticed this after the mergency stop. I've had the car for 10000 miles now and never paid any attention to this.
Does anyone have the same experience. Is the clutch pedal fixed to go only forward and backwards or is there some tolerance as for its movement sideways (about 1 centimeter).

Thanks for your help.