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View Full Version : Acceleration results for 330i, 540i, and X5 3.0....


Emission
11-26-2003, 09:50 AM
We took a 540i 6-speed (E39) out and tested it last night. What a beast! My brother had trouble getting the rear tires (255's!) to hook up under 324 ft/lbs of torque. After a few practice runs, we finally blasted off a good run in each direction so we could log the data.

The measuring device is a Passport G-Timer GT2. The road is straight, flat and level, and 1.5 miles long. No cross traffic (it crosses agricultural property - produce fields). It is 15 ft. above sea level. Ambient temps last night were about 48 F. the road was dry and there was no wind.

I have posted my spreadsheet with the results from the 330i (a fast one!), and my X5 3.0 (which did pretty well considering the size and weight).

We are hoping to test a Ferrari 360 Modena on Thanksgiving, and a 330i with the ZHP option in January...

Enjoy.

P.S.- We accidentally left the A/C running during the testing on the 540i-6, for what it is worth. We also failed to punch in the correct weight of the 540i before we tested (we were also testing my Passat last night). The incorrect weight in the device will cause the "estimated horsepower" number to be a bit low. It shouldn't change the times.

Plaz
11-26-2003, 09:59 AM
the 330i (a fast one!)

You ain't kiddin'! :thumbup:

Thanks as always for the interesting and comprehensive info! Sounds like you had fun.

nate
11-26-2003, 10:32 AM
I'll bet that I had more fun than you yesterday.

I messed around in the M5. Oversteer = fun.

Talk about some power. I love that it sometimes cannot get traction in 2nd, even with 275 S-03s.

philippek
11-26-2003, 10:43 AM
Emission, was the 330 a manual or a step?

And kudos for a very nicely compiled report.

Emission
11-26-2003, 10:44 AM
Was it totally stock?

Yes, the 330i was 100% stock. We tested it with mods (CAI and Exhaust), then tested it without. It was faster without. :dunno: Check out this link:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46244

Emission
11-26-2003, 10:45 AM
Emission, was the 330 a manual or a step?

And kudos for a very nicely compiled report.

540i - 6-speed manual
330i - 5-speed manual
X5 - Steptronic

Thanks!

philippek
11-26-2003, 10:50 AM
If you need another ZHP to test, just let me know.

Tanin
11-26-2003, 11:14 AM
If you need another ZHP to test, just let me know.

Thanks for the offer. Might take you up on it.
I took delivery last Friday and currently have @ 400 miles on my car. I will test it after breakin (1200 miles) but to be fair the car really won't be broken in for a true comparision to my last 330i with 50k.

I have to admit that breakin (under 4.5k) is a real pain in the ass with a 6 speed. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much shifting :tsk:

Emission
11-26-2003, 11:19 AM
Thanks for the offer. Might take you up on it.

In case you were wondering, Tanin is my brother. He is the "man behind the numbers" for the 330i and 540i.

Jeff_DML
11-26-2003, 11:21 AM
where is your secret test location? ventura/camarillo(sp)? :angel:

want to test a non-bmw?

Tanin
11-26-2003, 12:09 PM
I'll bet that I had more fun than you yesterday.

I messed around in the M5. Oversteer = fun.

Talk about some power. I love that it sometimes cannot get traction in 2nd, even with 275 S-03s.


I spent some time in a 2002 M5 and it was the first car I drove that would break the tires loose as I shifted into 3rd. :yikes: ( and that was with Emission sitting next to me)

Although 100+ hp shy the 540 6 speed pulled #s just over .5 secs slower 0-60. That's very impressive car considering the 330 is 100 hp shy of the M3 and the M3 clearly has a 1 sec. advantage.
As Emission mentioned, launch was extremely difficult. Unlike the 330 where you bring the rpm's just under 3k and side step, the 540 is very tempermental. My first attemp with 2.5k, side step and hammering the gas left me shifting into second gear doing 10 mph. Any attempt to jump on the gas hard left the car spinning stationary. I found the best lauch was to bring the rpm's just over 1k and slowly feather the gas.

mbr129
11-26-2003, 12:17 PM
Interesting (and thanks for the numbers!), the Perf Pack 330i seems to be right between the base 330i and the 540i-6 performance-wise.

C&D #'s for the 330i Perf Pack:

0-60: 5.6 secs
1/4 mile: 14.3@97mph

Emission
11-26-2003, 12:21 PM
where is your secret test location? ventura/camarillo(sp)? :angel:

want to test a non-bmw?

"Secret test location" = It's secret!

It's in Ventura County, in one of the numerous agricultural areas of expansive fields of low crops (strawberries and sod are big crops).

I'd love to test non-BMW's. Most of my tests are Nissan/Infiniti for my writing. Last night, I was testing the effect of racing fuel in the Passat vs. high octance pump gas.

pdz
11-26-2003, 01:42 PM
E:

the data look great.

the best part is that your quarter mile times match almost every published times.

Jeff_DML
11-26-2003, 03:08 PM
"Secret test location" = It's secret!

It's in Ventura County, in one of the numerous agricultural areas of expansive fields of low crops (strawberries and sod are big crops).

I'd love to test non-BMW's. Most of my tests are Nissan/Infiniti for my writing. Last night, I was testing the effect of racing fuel in the Passat vs. high octance pump gas.

I would be interested in the passat test results since I am driving a turbo car nowadays, can you post or pm me them, thanks

My wrx is unmodified so far so it would be interesting to test before/after mods.

pdz
11-26-2003, 03:11 PM
I would be interested in the passat test results since I am driving a turbo car nowadays, can you post or pm me them, thanks

My wrx is unmodified so far so it would be interesting to test before/after mods.


...and that is where the constant temperature of tha tpart of the country would be a real strength. but heat soak would be even more of an issue with the t-charged cars.

i really wouldn't want it to be my car that they test as you'd have to drop in the clutch at a super high rpm level to get decent acceleration out of either.

:eek:

Jeff_DML
11-26-2003, 03:15 PM
i really wouldn't want it to be my car that they test as you'd have to drop in the clutch at a super high rpm level to get decent acceleration out of either.

:eek:

yeah would like to avoid the clutch drop too but I figure a few of them wont significantly lower my clutch life. I will probably do some in gear testing myself to save my clutch and to have more predictable results.

The HACK
11-26-2003, 03:17 PM
I spent some time in a 2002 M5 and it was the first car I drove that would break the tires loose as I shifted into 3rd. :yikes: ( and that was with Emission sitting next to me)

Although 100+ hp shy the 540 6 speed pulled #s just over .5 secs slower 0-60. That's very impressive car considering the 330 is 100 hp shy of the M3 and the M3 clearly has a 1 sec. advantage.
As Emission mentioned, launch was extremely difficult. Unlike the 330 where you bring the rpm's just under 3k and side step, the 540 is very tempermental. My first attemp with 2.5k, side step and hammering the gas left me shifting into second gear doing 10 mph. Any attempt to jump on the gas hard left the car spinning stationary. I found the best lauch was to bring the rpm's just over 1k and slowly feather the gas.

Should have E. standing outside to check and see if it's the tire spinning or the clutch.

The 540i's have the Clutch Delay Valve that prevents hard launches, and instead of delivering all the power at once to the drivetrain it slips the clutch instead.

bten
11-26-2003, 05:05 PM
Interesting data. Nice layout for the report. Thanks for the info.

JetBlack330i
11-26-2003, 05:20 PM
FYI, the official Cd. for the 330i is 0.31 (from BMWUSA)

Tanin
11-26-2003, 06:50 PM
Should have E. standing outside to check and see if it's the tire spinning or the clutch.

The 540i's have the Clutch Delay Valve that prevents hard launches, and instead of delivering all the power at once to the drivetrain it slips the clutch instead.

GUARANTEE it was the tires ! There was no clutch slip at all.

Not only could you hear the tires spinning but my ass was slowly dancing to the right.


It was our dads 540 ( and yes, unlike my teenage years I asked permission to take it) and the tires are oem that came with the car. They have @ 24k miles on them and IMO are a very hard compound ( I forgot to check what brand/type they are). Compared to the AVS ES100 (330) the tires on the 540 couldn't grab quickly enough. I guarantee that will a few more runs to practice or better tires I could get 5.3/Sub 14 at 100+. I love that engine !!!!

Emission
11-26-2003, 07:10 PM
FYI, the official Cd. for the 330i is 0.31 (from BMWUSA)

Thanks! :thumbup:

Emission
11-26-2003, 07:18 PM
I would be interested in the passat test results since I am driving a turbo car nowadays, can you post or pm me them, thanks



I have a '02 Passat with the 1.8 Turbo (and Tiptronic). I put a 1.1 bar chip on it (stock is .7 or so) to get more horses from the increased boost.

The engine/ECU can retard the timing if it senses predetonation (knocking) if the octane is too low for the boost. In CA we only get 91 octane, and I have felt the engine "pulse" as the ECU pulls back due to predetonation. Very frustrating, as I knew I was losing power.

I tested with 91 pump octane:

0-60 in 7.51 (with the chip)
1/4 in 15.84 @ 86.20 mph

I tested with 95 octane (mixed with racing fuel).

0-60 in 7.20
1/4 in 15.59 @ 88.65 mph

Obviously, the chip responded to the higher octane fuel. Pity I live in California. :mad:

The HACK
11-27-2003, 11:13 PM
GUARANTEE it was the tires ! There was no clutch slip at all.

Not only could you hear the tires spinning but my ass was slowly dancing to the right.


It was our dads 540 ( and yes, unlike my teenage years I asked permission to take it) and the tires are oem that came with the car. They have @ 24k miles on them and IMO are a very hard compound ( I forgot to check what brand/type they are). Compared to the AVS ES100 (330) the tires on the 540 couldn't grab quickly enough. I guarantee that will a few more runs to practice or better tires I could get 5.3/Sub 14 at 100+. I love that engine !!!!

That brings up an interesting point. How much does tires affect acceleration times and performance? Certain summer compounds, like the Pirelli's, will deform upon acceleration to give you a larger contact patch to aid in maximum forward thrust but gives up a lot on turn-in feel due to the softer sidewalls. Would shodding the 540i with better tires significantly improve launch time? Are you "chirping" the tires going up to 2nd or 3rd, indicating that the car's overpowering the tires even in those gears?

Too bad the rims/tires from the 330i wouldn't fit the 540, otherwise I'd swap the rims and tires and do another run.

Emission
11-28-2003, 12:11 AM
That brings up an interesting point. How much does tires affect acceleration times and performance?

I've got two sets of tires for the Porsche. One for street, one for track (with R Compound rubber). My tests were on the street rubber, as they are narrower (205/245) than the track rubber (235/275). I did get wheelspin, but I fear the added grip of the R Compound will be offset by thier increased rolling resistance and aerodynamic drag. :dunno:

Tires and road surface play a huge role in acceleration. We test on the same road, hopefully eliminating most of one of the variables.

Alex Baumann
11-28-2003, 01:56 AM
That brings up an interesting point. How much does tires affect acceleration times and performance? Certain summer compounds, like the Pirelli's, will deform upon acceleration to give you a larger contact patch to aid in maximum forward thrust but gives up a lot on turn-in feel due to the softer sidewalls. Would shodding the 540i with better tires significantly improve launch time? Are you "chirping" the tires going up to 2nd or 3rd, indicating that the car's overpowering the tires even in those gears?

Too bad the rims/tires from the 330i wouldn't fit the 540, otherwise I'd swap the rims and tires and do another run.

A similar question was asked on our local board. How would the 'standard' E46M3 perform with Cup tires, which actually comes on the CSL ?

pdz
11-28-2003, 10:38 AM
A similar question was asked on our local board. How would the 'standard' E46M3 perform with Cup tires, which actually comes on the CSL ?

the laptime difference for 993s shod with street rubber versus mich. PS cup tires is pretty amazing. something that you wouldn't really believe unless you saw the data.

so, i am sure it would make quite a difference in acceleration --it's a small degree removed from a track compound with a bit more tread. but not much (as you all know).

The HACK
11-29-2003, 09:18 AM
the laptime difference for 993s shod with street rubber versus mich. PS cup tires is pretty amazing. something that you wouldn't really believe unless you saw the data.

so, i am sure it would make quite a difference in acceleration --it's a small degree removed from a track compound with a bit more tread. but not much (as you all know).

Well...

Lap time and straight line acceleration times would differ drastically. R comps will provide much better lateral grip than straight line grip compared to street compounds, so I'd say that same number won't transfer over.

However, you SHOULD still see an improvment in time.

Patrick330i
11-30-2003, 01:55 AM
We took a 540i 6-speed (E39) out and tested it last night. What a beast! My brother had trouble getting the rear tires (255's!) to hook up under 324 ft/lbs of torque. After a few practice runs, we finally blasted off a good run in each direction so we could log the data.

The measuring device is a Passport G-Timer GT2. The road is straight, flat and level, and 1.5 miles long. No cross traffic (it crosses agricultural property - produce fields). It is 15 ft. above sea level. Ambient temps last night were about 48 F. the road was dry and there was no wind.

I have posted my spreadsheet with the results from the 330i (a fast one!), and my X5 3.0 (which did pretty well considering the size and weight).

We are hoping to test a Ferrari 360 Modena on Thanksgiving, and a 330i with the ZHP option in January...

Enjoy.

P.S.- We accidentally left the A/C running during the testing on the 540i-6, for what it is worth. We also failed to punch in the correct weight of the 540i before we tested (we were also testing my Passat last night). The incorrect weight in the device will cause the "estimated horsepower" number to be a bit low. It shouldn't change the times.

Thanks for the run-down. Good read. Look forward to future installments. :thumbup:

Tanin
11-30-2003, 01:14 PM
Would shodding the 540i with better tires significantly improve launch time? Are you "chirping" the tires going up to 2nd or 3rd, indicating that the car's overpowering the tires even in those gears?

Too bad the rims/tires from the 330i wouldn't fit the 540, otherwise I'd swap the rims and tires and do another run.


Yes, I think better tires would improve launch time. Understand though, I am talking about 1-2 tenths of a second. My launch (0-10) in the 540 was .37 sec. and I do think I could shave that down to .27 with better rubber netting @ 5.3. IMO you aren't going to do much better than that.

The E39 is a "heavy" car. Tires are firmly planted during 2nd and 3rd gear shifts. Compared to the 330 that feels like it's working and fighting the 540 is a very smooth ride through the gears. The '02 M5 I drove was a different story. As I mentioned earlier, I was able to "chirp" through 3rd gear with Emission in the passenger seat. The M5 engine makes the E39 a different animal. The last non-M 5 series I was able to consistantly "chip" was my dad's E28 533i 5sp. (it wasn't the quickest but IMO the most fun to drive)

The HACK
11-30-2003, 02:08 PM
Yes, I think better tires would improve launch time. Understand though, I am talking about 1-2 tenths of a second. My launch (0-10) in the 540 was .37 sec. and I do think I could shave that down to 2.7 with better rubber netting @ 5.3. IMO you aren't going to do much better than that.

The E39 is a "heavy" car. Tires are firmly planted during 2nd and 3rd gear shifts. Compared to the 330 that feels like it's working and fighting the 540 is a very smooth ride through the gears. The '02 M5 I drove was a different story. As I mentioned earlier, I was able to "chirp" through 3rd gear with Emission in the passenger seat. The M5 engine makes the E39 a different animal. The last non-M 5 series I was able to consistantly "chip" was my dad's E28 533i 5sp. (it wasn't the quickest but IMO the most fun to drive)

You guys need to do WhatApex?! does on the track for driving events...Load up the car with passengers to corner balance the car. :D

Jeff_DML
12-01-2003, 12:24 PM
I have a '02 Passat with the 1.8 Turbo (and Tiptronic). I put a 1.1 bar chip on it (stock is .7 or so) to get more horses from the increased boost.

The engine/ECU can retard the timing if it senses predetonation (knocking) if the octane is too low for the boost. In CA we only get 91 octane, and I have felt the engine "pulse" as the ECU pulls back due to predetonation. Very frustrating, as I knew I was losing power.

I tested with 91 pump octane:

0-60 in 7.51 (with the chip)
1/4 in 15.84 @ 86.20 mph

I tested with 95 octane (mixed with racing fuel).

0-60 in 7.20
1/4 in 15.59 @ 88.65 mph

Obviously, the chip responded to the higher octane fuel. Pity I live in California. :mad:


Thanks, what chip? GIAC?

I had the APR chip(1.0bar) in my A4 and it pinged pretty bad at first, they then released a new revision(for 91) and it seemed to fix it. Suprised your pings since the software should be pretty mature by now.