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///MikeCoupe
08-17-2010, 08:59 AM
z4m Coupe owners. Do any of you guys monitor your water temps using the hidden diagnostic menu?

It is getting to triple digits in Texas, so I run with the digital water temperature menu up.

After the car warms up I am seeing temps averaging around 95-97 C during highway driving with the external gauge reading around 105F. During stop and go traffic, the ext gauge will creep up to 109F and my water temps get up to 100 and 101c.

My buddy with an e46 M3 is seeing 95C water temps. Same engine, but different radiator and engine bay, so I'm wondering if my engine is running hot or that is just a product of different design.

Anyone monitor your temps have a baseline to share with me? Palantirion I know you probably monitor your temps at the track, do you have any data? I've searched your thread, but that thing is almost too big now :)

I'm going to check my fan clutch today and if that's good probably flush coolant with a lighter mix + water wetter.

Ron Stygar
08-17-2010, 09:28 AM
I'm going to check my fan clutch today and if that's good probably flush coolant with a lighter mix + water wetter.

You have a fan clutch?

Ron Stygar
08-17-2010, 09:52 AM
z4m Coupe owners. Do any of you guys monitor your water temps using the hidden diagnostic menu?

It is getting to triple digits in Texas, so I run with the digital water temperature menu up.

After the car warms up I am seeing temps averaging around 95-97 C during highway driving with the external gauge reading around 105F. During stop and go traffic, the ext gauge will creep up to 109F and my water temps get up to 100 and 101c.

My buddy with an e46 M3 is seeing 95C water temps. Same engine, but different radiator and engine bay, so I'm wondering if my engine is running hot or that is just a product of different design.

Anyone monitor your temps have a baseline to share with me? Palantirion I know you probably monitor your temps at the track, do you have any data? I've searched your thread, but that thing is almost too big now :)

I'm going to check my fan clutch today and if that's good probably flush coolant with a lighter mix + water wetter.

<img src="http://bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=89081&stc=1">

Ron Stygar
08-17-2010, 11:28 AM
Anyone monitor your temps have a baseline to share with me? Palantirion I know you probably monitor your temps at the track, do you have any data? I've searched your thread, but that thing is almost too big now :)



I normally run 180 with a gauge and OBDII.

ScangaugeII too.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=424468&highlight=scangauge

///MikeCoupe
08-17-2010, 03:27 PM
I normally run 180 with a gauge and OBDII.

ScangaugeII too.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=424468&highlight=scangauge

Thanks for the information Ron. I've been reading the M3 troubleshooting guides because they are plentiful, I'm glad I posted here before doing the test.

So the s54 in the Mcoupe does not have a fan clutch, but it does in the m3?

Well regardless you are running at 180F. What kind of ambient temps? That is only 82 C, so from the sounds of it I am running very hot. Is that your assessment as well?

Ron Stygar
08-17-2010, 03:34 PM
Thanks for the information Ron. I've been reading the M3 troubleshooting guides because they are plentiful, I'm glad I posted here before doing the test.

So the s54 in the Mcoupe does not have a fan clutch, but it does in the m3?

Well regardless you are running at 180F. What kind of ambient temps? That is only 82 C, so from the sounds of it I am running very hot. Is that your assessment as well?

It's been in the high 90's most of the summer.

Where the fan would be:

<img src="http://bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240525&stc=1">

Cover from E30, Screw plug 11 51 1 310 640 $8.86r

<img src="http://bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=240526&stc=1">

///MikeCoupe
08-17-2010, 03:38 PM
Thank you. I'm going to suspect the thermostat then. I'll probably just have bmw troubleshoot it unless you have any suggestions I can DIY in a short period of time.

Ron Stygar
08-17-2010, 03:40 PM
Thank you. I'm going to suspect the thermostat then. I'll probably just have bmw troubleshoot it unless you have any suggestions I can DIY in a short period of time.

What are you using reading the temperature.

///MikeCoupe
08-17-2010, 03:49 PM
What are you using reading the temperature.

The diagnostic menu in the OBDC.

---------------
BMW Self-Test Mode Instructions:

Instructions to access the hidden functions:
1. Hold Trip Reset while turning ignition key to position 1.
2. LCD should show "Test 1.0"
3. Press the reset button again to select function 19.0 that unlocks all the features
3. Wait for display to show "Off"
4. Depress Trip Reset for 1/4 second and release it
5. Then with no delay, press Trip Reset several times to select one of the following functions.
==========================================
BMW E46 On-Board Computer (OBC) Hidden Codes (works on some E36s as well):

1. Car Engine and cluster data
1.0 VIN number (last 5 digits)
1.1 K number (my car shows a mileage counter of some sort)
1.2 Cluster Part #
1.3 Coding (12)/diagnosis (34)/bus index (56) (ex. 123456)
1.4 Week/Year of cluster manufacture (ww/yy)
1.5 Hardware and Software cluster #s (ex. 09_160 = hardware '09' and software '16.0')
1.6 ?
1.7 CAN-version and KI-revision index (ex. 04_44 = CAN-version '04' and KI-revision index '44')

2. Cluster System Test - Activates the gauge drivers, indicators and LEDs to confirm function (this is a fun one to watch).

3. Service Inspection Data
3.0 Used fuel in liters since last Service Inspection
3.1 elapsed days since last Service Inspection (mine reads zero, which doesn’t match)

4. Fuel Consumption
4.0 Instant fuel consumption (ex. 0145+ =14.5 liters/100km)
4.1 Instant fuel consumption (ex. 0018=1.8 l/Hour)

5. Distance Gone Consumption (this feature doesn’t work on my car)
5.0 Average mileage (ex. "082" = 8.2 liters/100km)
5.1 km to refuel

6. Fuel Level sensor inputs in liters
6.0 Fuel level averaged (ex. 109330+ = Left half sensor input 10.9 liters;
Right sensor input 33.0 liters)
6.1 Total tank level averaged: (10.9+33.0=43.9 liters)
6.2 Indicated value (0442+ = 44.2) and tank phase

7. Temperature and Speed
7.0 Coolant/Engine temperature (ex. 021 = 21C) (this one’s also really interesting. my car ranged from 82 to 98 C. once the engine was warmed up—leave this one on as you’re driving around).
7.1 Ambient/Outside temperature - chg met 5 pts. 125/130/135 (didn’t work on my car).
7.2 Engine speed / Current RPMs 1/min
7.3 Vehicle speed / Current Speed in km/hour

Ron Stygar
08-17-2010, 06:10 PM
The diagnostic menu in the OBDC.



<img src="http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/testclusterz4-1.jpg">

<img src="http://bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=243726&stc=1">

<img src="http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/testclusterz4-3.jpg">

Speed: km/hr X 0.6214 = miles/hr

From jragan:

1. Enter Vehicle.

2. Start Car. (You can enter test mode and test all while the car is running and moving)


3. Enter test mode (hold down the S/R button until _tESt_0._ is displayed)

4. Press the S/R button quickly until _tESt_19._ is displayed.
......After a second, _tESt_19.0 will be displayed with alternating/flashing L_oFF and L_oN.
......When L_oFF is displayed, press both the S/R and the button beside it at the same time.
......You will be returned to _tESt_0._

5. Press the S/R button quickly until _tESt_7._ is displayed.
......After a second, _tESt_7.0 will be displayed.
......Press S/R button quickly until _tESt_7.3 is displayed.

6. Drive.

7. Note speeds. (Remember the _tESt_7.3 speed is in km/h so you'll need to do some math afterwards)

8. Stop Driving.

9. Turn car off.

10. Exit vehicle.

RichardTS
08-17-2010, 06:24 PM
I have not yet seen anything in this series of posts that indicates what NORMAL operating temp is. Ron, do you know what the setting on the thermostat is? I know that 192 F is a very standard coolant thermostat temp. This means that a 192 degree stat will be beginning to open at 192 and probably will not be fully open until about 198-200 degrees. Many engines run around 205 and the reason they have pressure caps on the radiator is because this allows them to run as high as 230 without the water boiling.

Note that 97 C is 206.6 F. What I am trying to say is that this is actually a pretty normal engine temp by anyone's standards.

There is also a myth about thermostats. Everyone seems to think they keep the engine cool. Not so - they keep the engine up to temperature only. Think about it. They are closed until the temperature causes them to open. The temp can go to the stratosphere and they will never close. The upper temperature limit is a function of the cooling system's ability to cool the engine.

I think the first and foremost information needed is the normal operating temp of the engine and we either don't know that or no one yet has posted it.

Ron Stygar
08-17-2010, 06:32 PM
Ron, do you know what the setting on the thermostat is?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=DU93&mospid=49424&btnr=11_3010&hg=11&fg=35&hl=8

Ron Stygar
08-17-2010, 06:36 PM
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=DU93&mospid=49424&btnr=11_3010&hg=11&fg=35&hl=8

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1228788&postcount=2

///MikeCoupe
08-17-2010, 06:58 PM
Ron -- was your post for document reasons only or is there something to be said for not trusting what the display says?

I'm more confused than when I started today :)

Ron Stygar
08-17-2010, 07:04 PM
Ron -- was your post for document reasons only or is there something to be said for not trusting what the display says?

I'm more confused than when I started today :)

Which post are you talking about?

///MikeCoupe
08-17-2010, 07:33 PM
Your post that was a scanned version of the obc info

Ron Stygar
08-17-2010, 07:34 PM
Your post that was a scanned version of the obc info

Z4 version.

silversprint
08-18-2010, 12:20 AM
These engines run hot. That's why BMW doesn't put a temperature gauge in the car. One of the biggest complaints about the E46 M3 was high coolant temperatures during the summer. I use to see it go to almost 3/4 on the coolant gauge in the M3.

indolene
08-18-2010, 12:45 AM
z4m Coupe owners. Do any of you guys monitor your water temps using the hidden diagnostic menu?

Hidden diagnostic menu??? Can you share how to access this feature please?

Ron Stygar
08-18-2010, 04:17 AM
I use to see it go to almost 3/4 on the coolant gauge in the M3.

I thought it didn't have a coolant temperature gauge?

Ron Stygar
08-18-2010, 04:19 AM
Hidden diagnostic menu??? Can you share how to access this feature please?

See post #10.

car62
08-18-2010, 04:44 AM
There is also a myth about thermostats. Everyone seems to think they keep the engine cool. Not so - they keep the engine up to temperature only. Think about it. They are closed until the temperature causes them to open. The temp can go to the stratosphere and they will never close. The upper temperature limit is a function of the cooling system's ability to cool the engine.

Thermostats can malfunction causing them to stick closed or partially closed. That will cause the engine to run too hot because coolant cannot get to the radiator.

GrantM62
08-18-2010, 08:29 AM
Thermostats can malfunction causing them to stick closed or partially closed. That will cause the engine to run too hot because coolant cannot get to the radiator.

True, but on other message boards (with less sophisticated and intelligent readers than this one of course), it's surpriging how many times you'll see posts that basically say "my car is running too hot, I'm going to replace my 190deg thermostat with a 170deg" or something similar. Umm... ok, but if your car is at 210 degrees, that cooler thermostat isn't going to make a bit of difference... :rolleyes:

///MikeCoupe
08-18-2010, 08:31 AM
These engines run hot. That's why BMW doesn't put a temperature gauge in the car. One of the biggest complaints about the E46 M3 was high coolant temperatures during the summer. I use to see it go to almost 3/4 on the coolant gauge in the M3.

I'm ignorant about what the operating temperatures should be and no one seems to agree on it.

220 seems to be the number most people agree on that a car is over heating. However, that is different from system to system depending on where the temp is measured, the efficiency of the system to be able to drop temperatures and eliminate hotspots, and how high the pressure in the closed system is. For example in my old sports car on hot track days I could regularly "see" measured temps of 230, but it was not a problem due to my cooling system (ran 18 PSI with pineapple brand racing fluid). The actual temp of the coolant was well below boiling.

I'm basing my opinion that 102 C / 215 F is too hot on what my friends with M3s are running in the same temperatures. One guy is running, or claims to be running at, 89-91C using the same diagnostic menu in his car. My other friend is running 94-95 max in his car. I'm running a full 6-7C or 10-12F degrees hotter.

If that is ok for the mcoupe, great. My initial research on the issue brings up way more information about the M3 than the mcoupe, so maybe I should not be reading into this information as much as I should. The S54 engine is the same, but obviously the fan system and radiator are not.

I'm going to completely flush the coolant this weekend and switch to a lighter 70/30 mix with water wetter. Hopefully that improves the conductivity of the system and runs cooler temperatures. These 100-105 Austin summer days are murder on sports cars and I just want to make sure I'm not creating hot or boiling spots in my cooling system when I'm stuck in any kind of traffic.

///MikeCoupe
08-18-2010, 08:34 AM
Z4 version.

Thanks Ron. I'm quickly discovering you are a wealth of information on this site :thumbup:

I'm curious what the average differential between your gauges and the temperature readout on the OBC is. And also where, in relation to the radiator and themorstate, both are measured from.

Have you ever looked at the temp readout in the OBC?

JCz04Bimmer
08-18-2010, 09:27 AM
220 seems to be the number most people agree on that a car is over heating.

That's definitely not overheating in the conventional sense of the term. That's more like "getting hot" but it certainly isn't shut-down temperatures. When I am driving at highway speeds my temperature gauge on the dash (which is an oil temperature gauge, if I'm not mistaken) is a tick (read: 1mm) to the left of the center mark which is 210deg. If I get stuck in stop/go traffic, the temperature rises but never past a tick to the right over the center mark. On the track, it goes to about halfway between the center mark and the 3/4ths mark and that's pretty much been the case on both hot and cool days on track. Generally, I've heard from M3 owners that when the needle travels past the 3/4ths tick it's time to shut down before things get out of hand.

///MikeCoupe
08-18-2010, 09:46 AM
That's definitely not overheating in the conventional sense of the term. That's more like "getting hot" but it certainly isn't shut-down temperatures. When I am driving at highway speeds my temperature gauge on the dash (which is an oil temperature gauge, if I'm not mistaken) is a tick (read: 1mm) to the left of the center mark which is 210deg. If I get stuck in stop/go traffic, the temperature rises but never past a tick to the right over the center mark. On the track, it goes to about halfway between the center mark and the 3/4ths mark and that's pretty much been the case on both hot and cool days on track. Generally, I've heard from M3 owners that when the needle travels past the 3/4ths tick it's time to shut down before things get out of hand.

You are confusing water temperature with oil temperature. The guage in the m-coupe is the oil temperature gauge and is useful to keep an eye on, especially at the track. The coupe does not have a water temp gauge. To see water temps in the m coupe you have to access a diagnostic menu. The water temp in the m3 is prone to go 3/4 at around 94C from what I've read. Ergo if I'm running 100 to 102 I'd be past the m3's 3/4 range.

In triple digit temperatures I'm more concerned about the cooling system because any kind of hot spot and you can see partial boiling that cause vapor pockets which will eventually warp metal.

I'm coming off a long run with building and tracking rotary engine cars (rx7) so I'm a bit sensitive to heat. Rotary engines are very easily damaged by even small hot spots that cause temporary vapor pockets. I recongnize I might be being over sensitive about the heat, but since I can't even baseline what everyone else's operating temps in 100F+ degree heat, I'm going to remain sensitive to it until it is demonstrated that my temps are normal.

For example Ron has posted that he's seeing 180F operating temperatures in 90 degree heat. My car is running 20-30 degrees hotter than that. There are a variety of explanations. For starters he is running a 3rd party gauge and which might be measuring on the cold side of the radiator or other areas of the system. Or another explanation may be that my system has an issue with either the coolant, the thermostat, the radiator, or the fan system.

So the point of these posts is to establish a baseline with other m coupe owners to use the diagnostic menu to keep an eye on the coolant temps. Either I need to know my car is normal, or I need to start troubleshooting.

JCz04Bimmer
08-18-2010, 09:48 AM
You are confusing water temperature with oil temperature. The guage in the m-coupe is the oil temperature gauge and is useful to keep an eye on, especially at the track. The coupe does not have a water temp gauge. To see water temps in the m coupe you have to access a diagnostic menu. The water temp in the m3 is prone to go 3/4 at around 94C from what I've read. Ergo if I'm running 100 to 102 I'd be past the m3's 3/4 range.

In triple digit temperatures I'm more concerned about the cooling system because any kind of hot spot and you can see partial boiling that cause vapor pockets which will eventually warp metal.

I'm coming off a long run with building and tracking rotary engine cars (rx7) so I'm a bit sensitive to heat. Rotary engines are very easily damaged by even small hot spots that cause temporary vapor pockets. I recongnize I might be being over sensitive about the heat, but since I can't even baseline what everyone else's operating temps in 100F+ degree heat, I'm going to remain sensitive to it until it is demonstrated that my temps are normal.

For example Ron has posted that he's seeing 180F operating temperatures in 90 degree heat. My car is running 20-30 degrees hotter than that. There are a variety of explanations. For starters he is running a 3rd party gauge and which might be measuring on the cold side of the radiator or other areas of the system. Or another explanation may be that my system has an issue with either the coolant, the thermostat, the radiator, or the fan system.

So the point of these posts is to establish a baseline with other m coupe owners to use the diagnostic menu to keep an eye on the coolant temps. Either I need to know my car is normal, or I need to start troubleshooting.

Roger that. I knew I was talking about oil temperatures but I didn't know if you were interchanging oil and water temperatures throughout the thread. My bad.

Next time I'm on track (probably in 2 weeks), I'll access the diagnostic menu and try to note what my findings are.

Ron Stygar
08-18-2010, 10:40 AM
The S54 engine is the same, but obviously the fan system and radiator are not.



DME too.

Ron Stygar
08-18-2010, 10:57 AM
For example Ron has posted that he's seeing 180F operating temperatures in 90 degree heat. My car is running 20-30 degrees hotter than that. There are a variety of explanations. For starters he is running a 3rd party gauge and which might be measuring on the cold side of the radiator or other areas of the system. Or another explanation may be that my system has an issue with either the coolant, the thermostat, the radiator, or the fan system.



It's in the block drain. It's with in one degree of the OBDII and scangaugeII.
It moves around a degree rarely. The oil moves depending the driving.

You should puchase a ScangaugeII.

///MikeCoupe
08-18-2010, 11:10 AM
It's in the block drain. It's with in one degree of the OBDII and scangaugeII.
It moves around a degree rarely. The oil moves depending the driving.

You should puchase a ScangaugeII.

When you say OBDII is that the on board diagnostic menu using test 7? Trying to figure out how accurate this thing is.

Ron Stygar
08-18-2010, 11:15 AM
When you say OBDII is that the on board diagnostic menu using test 7? Trying to figure out how accurate this thing is.

I don't use the cluster menu.

I use the Autoenginuity OBDII scan tool.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170919

///MikeCoupe
08-18-2010, 11:18 AM
I don't use the cluster menu.

I use the Autoenginuity OBDII scan tool.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170919

Next time you are out and the vehicle is warmed up could you load up the temperature display in the cluster menu and see what the variant is between your scan gauge and the menu? I'd really like to see what the differences are.

Ron Stygar
08-18-2010, 11:29 AM
Next time you are out and the vehicle is warmed up could you load up the temperature display in the cluster menu.

I don't use the menu.

///MikeCoupe
08-18-2010, 11:31 AM
I don't use the menu.

I understand that you don't on a regular basis. I'm asking if you can try it out, for posterity, to give a baseline for how accurate it is. I trust your gauges over the OBC, but I want to see how off it is.

It takes 5 seconds to load up and set it to display the coolant temp.

Ron Stygar
08-18-2010, 11:37 AM
I understand that you don't on a regular basis. I'm asking if you can try it out, for posterity, to give a baseline for how accurate it is. I trust your gauges over the OBC, but I want to see how off it is.

It takes 5 seconds to load up and set it to display the coolant temp.

You should purchase a ScangaugeII.

///MikeCoupe
08-18-2010, 11:48 AM
You should purchase a ScangaugeII.

Planning on it. Takes about a week to get here. In the meantime, if you drive your car, I'd really love to see your results.

If not that's cool man, but it'd be nice to see what your variants are.

Ron Stygar
08-18-2010, 11:52 AM
In the meantime, if you drive your car, I'd really love to see your results.



I will check the scangauge with the VDO gauge.

Palantirion
08-19-2010, 04:29 PM
z4m Coupe owners. Do any of you guys monitor your water temps using the hidden diagnostic menu?

It is getting to triple digits in Texas, so I run with the digital water temperature menu up.

After the car warms up I am seeing temps averaging around 95-97 C during highway driving with the external gauge reading around 105F. During stop and go traffic, the ext gauge will creep up to 109F and my water temps get up to 100 and 101c.

My buddy with an e46 M3 is seeing 95C water temps. Same engine, but different radiator and engine bay, so I'm wondering if my engine is running hot or that is just a product of different design.

Anyone monitor your temps have a baseline to share with me? Palantirion I know you probably monitor your temps at the track, do you have any data? I've searched your thread, but that thing is almost too big now :)

I'm going to check my fan clutch today and if that's good probably flush coolant with a lighter mix + water wetter.
-On the street my water temp is usually right about 190F. At the track, with the supercharger running hard it varies a LOT depending on the track and conditions, from 210-242F. Prior to the supercharger I didn't have water temp data, but it was obivously cooler.

jsc
08-19-2010, 06:37 PM
Next time you are out and the vehicle is warmed up could you load up the temperature display in the cluster menu and see what the variant is between your scan gauge and the menu? I'd really like to see what the differences are.
It looks like the test 7.0 on the Z4M shows oil temp, not coolant. This is logical, as test 7.0 is "displayed values", i.e. what is being shown on the instrument cluster displays.

I checked the test 7.0 value and the needle position on the oil temp gauge (which is in deg C on my Canadian car) while the car warmed up over several cycles. Both values are exactly the same.

///MikeCoupe
08-20-2010, 09:03 AM
It looks like the test 7.0 on the Z4M shows oil temp, not coolant. This is logical, as test 7.0 is "displayed values", i.e. what is being shown on the instrument cluster displays.

I checked the test 7.0 value and the needle position on the oil temp gauge (which is in deg C on my Canadian car) while the car warmed up over several cycles. Both values are exactly the same.

In normal driving that should be expected. It isn't until you start to really push the engine that the oil temp is going to climb above the coolant temp.

The BMW manauls all say that test 7.0 measures coolant temp. I do not think it measures oil temp.

What kind of temperatures are you seeing with test 7?

Ron Stygar
08-20-2010, 09:26 AM
The BMW manauls all say that test 7.0 measures coolant temp. I do not think it measures oil temp.



How would you know?

///MikeCoupe
08-20-2010, 09:49 AM
How would you know?

I wouldn't know. I am assuming BMW wouldn't confuse oil with coolant in the manuals for several cars in their line.

Did you have a chance to compare the two?

Ron Stygar
08-20-2010, 10:28 AM
I wouldn't know. I am assuming BMW wouldn't confuse oil with coolant in the manuals for several cars in their line.

Did you have a chance to compare the two?

Nope. I'm working on another project.

///MikeCoupe
08-20-2010, 10:31 AM
Nope. I'm working on another project.

Anything exciting? :thumbup:

Hopefully I'll have a scangauge installed within a week or so.

vicj
08-20-2010, 01:10 PM
I have the Leather Z gauge kit installed in my M, with a coolant temp. gauge. Generally, on normal driving, it stays right around 180. On real hot days, and a lot of stop and go, it creeps up to 195-200. It's never gotten hotter than that. I don't think it's unusual in any way.

jsc
08-22-2010, 09:39 PM
What kind of temperatures are you seeing with test 7?
Exactly the same as the oil temp gauge - with an ambient temp of 20C and gentle driving (revs in the range 2000-3000RPM), oil temp and test 7.0 temp reach 50C in 4km, then reach 95C and stay there in 10km. If the car is driven reasonbly hard in 30C ambient temps, then they both go up to 105 to 110C / 230F(again, oil temp gauge and test 7.0 temp are always exactly the same).

///MikeCoupe
08-23-2010, 06:39 AM
Exactly the same as the oil temp gauge - with an ambient temp of 20C and gentle driving (revs in the range 2000-3000RPM), oil temp and test 7.0 temp reach 50C in 4km, then reach 95C and stay there in 10km. If the car is driven reasonbly hard in 30C ambient temps, then they both go up to 105 to 110C / 230F(again, oil temp gauge and test 7.0 temp are always exactly the same).

Thanks for the info! Maybe my car isn't run as hot as I thought.

Interesting that the M3 guys run 5-10 degrees C cooler than the mcoupe. For what it is worth, it sounds like the test 7.0 in the on board computer isn't very accurate when compared to a 3rd party measurement. I'm not all that suprised, but I am suprised at the difference. It is starting to sound like the measurement might be oil temperature instead of water, but I just can't believe BMW would print it as coolant in all of the manuals.

We had a local DIY weekend with 5 other M3 guys (pics! http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=331358) and had a chance to look at the temps while driving back and forth from lunch and getting parts. A few of the guys never saw over 90C while driving around in 39C (103F) ambient temps. Including one person with an ESS supercharger. One guy was up to 95-96. As part of our DIY we changed his belts and flushed his coolant with a 60/40 ratio and a bottle of water wetter. He now claims he's seeing 90C max.

All I did was change my CDV valve to a dummy and bleed my brakes/clutch. The car's service had a coolant flush done 7k miles ago, so I don't think I need to do another one this soon.

Anyway, thanks again for the comparables. Good to have some baseline mcoupe data to view rather than trying to compare to M3's which utilize different cooling methods.

silversprint
08-23-2010, 10:25 PM
I thought it didn't have a coolant temperature gauge?

It was the E46 M3. I believe that was the last M or maybe any BMW model to have a temp gaiuge.

///MikeCoupe
08-24-2010, 11:58 AM
Update:

I have my car in for a door rattle issue and got to talking with one of the M techs. He confirmed that the OBC readout is in fact reading the oil temp and that the coupe is not even plumbed to read the coolant temp. The manuals are incorrect.

This is no suprise to me, or most of you, but good to have a confirmation of what exactly the OBC test 7.0 is displaying.

Ron Stygar
08-26-2010, 03:32 PM
85 Degrees

70 MPH

4000 RPM

VDO Oil Temperature 205

VDO Water tenmperature 180

Scangauge Temperature 180, 181

VDO Oil gauge is quicker than stock gauge but eventually catches up.

VDO Water gauge is slower than Scangauge.

If you nail it above 4000 RPM Scangauge goes up to 188 quickly. VDO gauge starts to go but if you drop it down, both goes back to 180.

///MikeCoupe
08-27-2010, 08:52 AM
85 Degrees

70 MPH

4000 RPM

VDO Oil Temperature 205

VDO Water tenmperature 180

Scangauge Temperature 180, 181

VDO Oil gauge is quicker than stock gauge but eventually catches up.

VDO Water gauge is slower than Scangauge.

If you nail it above 4000 RPM Scangauge goes up to 188 quickly. VDO gauge starts to go but if you drop it down, both goes back to 180.

Thanks for the data ron. My scangauge is out for delivery so I will be able to test that tomorrow morning.

Question. Did you add anything for the VDO guage or are you using the stock sensor?
The M tech at the dealer said the mcoupe isn't even plumbed for a coolant sensor, but I am 99% he is wrong. He'd have to be for the scanguage to even work from the OBDII port.

Ron Stygar
08-27-2010, 12:23 PM
Thanks for the data ron. My scangauge is out for delivery so I will be able to test that tomorrow morning.

Question. Did you add anything for the VDO guage or are you using the stock sensor?


Water: As mentioned the VDO sender is in he block drain.

Oil: VDO sender is a welded bung in the area of the stock sensor in the sump.

<img src="http://bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=120796&stc=1">

///MikeCoupe
08-28-2010, 08:39 AM
Just to give this thread closure, we can confirm that the OBC test 7.0 displays oil temperature. No surprise, everyone else but me figured this out, I just wanted to be sure since the manual says coolant.

The BMW tech I spoke to earlier in the week was half wrong. While test 7.0 does display oil temperature, the mcoupe is still most definitely plumbed for water temperature sensor. The Scanguage II confirms this:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=243725&d=1283009841

91 c = ~196F and the SCII reads a nice 182F for water temperature.

Thanks for the recommendation on the Scanguage II Ron, this is a nifty gadget.

Ron Stygar
08-28-2010, 09:30 AM
Just to give this thread closure, we can confirm that the OBC test 7.0 displays oil temperature.

It shows here :).

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4058400&postcount=43

///MikeCoupe
08-28-2010, 09:37 AM
It shows here :).

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4058400&postcount=43

That's the first time I've seen it say oil instead of coolant.

Not surprising since there are so few mcoupes to m3s and the amount of information on the internet is proportional.

Either way, my temps are good and now I'm not paranoid about heading the track in this heat.

///MikeCoupe
08-28-2010, 09:41 AM
It shows here :).

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4058400&postcount=43

Waaaaait a second there. That looks suspiciously edited. Hahaha

Palantirion
08-28-2010, 11:44 AM
Regarding Scangauge, have any of you gotten it to read codes on our Z4 Ms?

Ron Stygar
08-28-2010, 01:01 PM
The BMW tech I spoke to earlier in the week was half wrong. While test 7.0 does display oil temperature, the mcoupe is still most definitely plumbed for water temperature sensor.

Water sensor:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=DU93&mospid=49424&btnr=11_3954&hg=11&fg=35&hl=16

///MikeCoupe
08-28-2010, 01:54 PM
Regarding Scangauge, have any of you gotten it to read codes on our Z4 Ms?

Only had it for a few hours, so no codes to throw, but what issues have you had?

Ron Stygar
08-28-2010, 02:30 PM
Regarding Scangauge, have any of you gotten it to read codes on our Z4 Ms?

Yes. Three codes and stored. I don't use this for codes. I use the Peake or Autoenginuity.
I reset them with the Peake.
Peake showed more codes.

I tried to get the scangauge for reset and reading the stored codes. No cigar.
I pushed buttons for everything and now it won't connect. Have to get the book.