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dadesidon
09-29-2010, 06:37 PM
Tuesday Morning

Car didn't start. The car unlocks, however when I hit the start/stop button the car just clicked and the wipers turn on. Confused I walk around my neighborhood asking someone to jumpstart my 4 day old car. 30 mins later I get back to my car, hit the start/stop button and it just about starts. I get a "drivetrain malfunction" error on the screen.

Confused, I call the dealership but the SA never calls me back.

Car works fine on the way home.


Wednesday Evening

Car worked fine in the morning. It sat at work off for about 10 hours. I get back and try to turn it on, and it doesn't start. Same thing as Tuesday, wiper turns on but nothing else. I walk around the office building pathetically looking for jumper cables to start my brand new car. I get back to the car 30 mins later, hit the start/stop and it just about starts. I get home and turn off the car. 5 minutes later I try to turn it on, and magic it works.

So...question...what is going on? Could it be the immobilizer? the battery? the key? URGH...I cannot deal with another 535 lemon :thumbdwn: I am so frustrated!

solstice
09-29-2010, 07:10 PM
Ouch I feel for you. I'm sure some jelous neighbours an co-workers loved it though...
I haven't had the dreaded engine light, I did have "Dynamic drive malfunction" though...twice. It seems they fixed it at the VDC. No idea what was wrong since there were no obvious sypmtoms.

markl53
09-29-2010, 07:22 PM
If jumper cables help, it's the battery most likely. You sure you don't have something left on when you shut off the car?

solstice
09-29-2010, 07:25 PM
Sorry I mixed your start problem with the Edmunds engine light issue. I read them back to back. I haven't had any problems to start the car. I did have the HPFP+injector issue on my E60 that come with rough idling and an I-drive warning + the engine light but no other start issues. Have you checked the battery connections including grounding?

Newmanium
09-29-2010, 07:27 PM
Get it into the dealer ASAP! If you're not getting battery low voltages when it eventually starts, probably not the battery draining - who knows.

dadesidon
09-29-2010, 09:00 PM
Update -- was running errands...car loses power, hits me with a transmission malfunction error, shuts down the iDrive, shuts down all of the power to the car except the engine and power steering. I pulled over until the car turned off completely (all lights off) then restarted and it worked fine.

Now i have the engine malfunction light on. This is going from bad to worse.

dadesidon
09-29-2010, 09:01 PM
If jumper cables help, it's the battery most likely. You sure you don't have something left on when you shut off the car?

Even though I got the jumper cables, I didn't use them. The car turned on before I plugged them in.

dadesidon
09-29-2010, 09:02 PM
Sorry I mixed your start problem with the Edmunds engine light issue. I read them back to back. I haven't had any problems to start the car. I did have the HPFP+injector issue on my E60 that come with rough idling and an I-drive warning + the engine light but no other start issues. Have you checked the battery connections including grounding?

I can't find the battery, I think that it's under the back seat - but am not sure. I'd rather have the dealer fix it, I can't risk the car screwing up on the road again.

Newmanium
09-29-2010, 09:07 PM
Battery should be in the trunk (on the E60 it's on the side - have to pull down a carpeted cover - not sure if they changed it for F10). Regardless, recommend not messing with anything, let the dealer figure it out, sounds like more than just loose cabling.

I'd be at the dealer when they open tomorrow, or get it towed if you don't feel comfortable driving.

savela
09-29-2010, 09:47 PM
Very concerning. I'm sure these are isolated incidents but it makes me nervous to think that a new $50k+ car would have these issues right off the bat - new model or not. I hope it's an easy fix.

pharding
09-30-2010, 06:38 AM
It sounds like a bad circuit board. The dealer will be able to fix it. Also do you leave anything plugged into the car over night? Like a cell phone?

dadesidon
09-30-2010, 06:48 AM
Update - car didn't start this morning either, I am going to have the car towed by roadside. To tell you the truth, I don't want the car any more. Two 535 lemons has left a really bad taste in my mouth (pardon the pun).

dadesidon
09-30-2010, 06:49 AM
It sounds like a bad circuit board. The dealer will be able to fix it. Also do you leave anything plugged into the car over night? Like a cell phone?

Nothing left plugged in. The car is locked and in my garage at night. Either way, it can't be a battery issue since yesterday the car basically shut itself down while I was driving.

jeffhoff
09-30-2010, 07:42 AM
I feel for you, and as frustrated as you must be, I'd cautiously approach the lemmon conclusion until the the dealer gets a chance to try and diagnose the problem. It could be something simple, bad circuit board, loose connection etc.

I agree with previous recomendations, get it to the dealer ASAP, let them pull the error codes and see what's going on.

Please keep us posted, I'm curious what they diagnose as the root cause.

Elias
09-30-2010, 08:57 AM
Dealer gets three strikes to get it right after that is its Lemon time or buyback.

SteVTEC
09-30-2010, 12:43 PM
Nothing left plugged in. The car is locked and in my garage at night. Either way, it can't be a battery issue since yesterday the car basically shut itself down while I was driving.WHILE YOU WERE DRIVING??

Sounds like the immobilizer thing, a flakey antenna, or possibly a flakey 'key' fob. The E60 had issues like this too, on cars equipped with it.

dadesidon
09-30-2010, 06:31 PM
WHILE YOU WERE DRIVING??

Sounds like the immobilizer thing, a flakey antenna, or possibly a flakey 'key' fob. The E60 had issues like this too, on cars equipped with it.

Yep, while I was driving...totally weird.

dadesidon
09-30-2010, 06:34 PM
Update - car didn't start this morning. BMW Assist tried to get a tow truck, but the car wouldn't turn on to get into neutral to take out of my garage so it was stuck. I ended up getting the foreman from the local dealership out to my place to try to manually put it into neutral, and he couldn't do it. 3 hours from my first call to BMW, I ended up at the dealer to pick up a loaner. I left the garage opener with the dealer and they managed to get it out somehow. I haven't heard from the dealer so far.

While at the dealer - someone suggested it could be a BUS problem, which is huge and I don't think I want the car back if it has a BUS issue. Word is that they aren't fixable. Let's see what happens. I will keep you updated.

Everyone involved (BMW, dealer, managers) have all been very nice so far, so I can't call out anyone other than BMW's manufacturing/QA process.

gregb10
09-30-2010, 07:09 PM
wow,, that is some story,, I m sorry for your negative experience,,, good luck and please keep us updated

SeeYal
09-30-2010, 07:29 PM
Update -- was running errands...car loses power, hits me with a transmission malfunction error, shuts down the iDrive, shuts down all of the power to the car except the engine and power steering. I pulled over until the car turned off completely (all lights off) then restarted and it worked fine.

Now i have the engine malfunction light on. This is going from bad to worse.

Had a friend telling me that about his truck... I know, it is different... but all it was is a bad ground wire on the battery .... check it out,... never know... after that, change the battery... hot summer days are rough on batteries...

wisbimmer20
09-30-2010, 09:55 PM
New BMWs are pieces of ****

kocsis
10-01-2010, 06:11 AM
I have a new 550ix on order, but I'm starting to wonder. People say you should not buy a new generation of car during the first year because the bugs haven't been worked out. Plus all of this software/ computer stuff reminds me of Microsoft and its constant updates - simply put, software is never tested sufficiently before release to reveal all of the problems encountered in real life. And what a disaster/ poor planning about a shifter that is disabled and cannot be put into neutral when there is no juice! With an AWD car, how else do you tow? I am monitoring the situation and would appreciate feedback from those who already purchased their cars.

dunccfp
10-01-2010, 06:28 AM
New BMWs are pieces of ****

Why because you're too cheap to get a new one ??

voken
10-01-2010, 06:43 AM
Update - car didn't start this morning. BMW Assist tried to get a tow truck, but the car wouldn't turn on to get into neutral to take out of my garage so it was stuck. I ended up getting the foreman from the local dealership out to my place to try to manually put it into neutral, and he couldn't do it. 3 hours from my first call to BMW, I ended up at the dealer to pick up a loaner. I left the garage opener with the dealer and they managed to get it out somehow. I haven't heard from the dealer so far. .

You had this issue starting Tuesday and its like 3 days now.....if its me, even if they fix it I will consider twice before taking it back ! why are you not forcing them to buyback or consider this as a lemon and put you on order for a new one ? Is there a clause that stops us to do so ? like if they fix you have to take it back ?

SteVTEC
10-01-2010, 06:54 AM
You had this issue starting Tuesday and its like 3 days now.....if its me, even if they fix it I will consider twice before taking it back ! why are you not forcing them to buyback or consider this as a lemon and put you on order for a new one ? Is there a clause that stops us to do so ? like if they fix you have to take it back ?Lemon laws vary by state, but most allow the dealer at least three opportunities to fix a particular issue, and also allows for a given amount of time out of service. Beyond that, lemon laws start to apply. I'd definitely keep track of every single day out of service and number of attempts to fix.

SteVTEC
10-01-2010, 07:00 AM
I have a new 550ix on order, but I'm starting to wonder. People say you should not buy a new generation of car during the first year because the bugs haven't been worked out.
That's always been the case no matter which brand of car you're talking about, even Honda or Toyota. Even the first wave of production on new consumer electronic goods and even cellular phones are far more likely to have issues, although you can generally return that stuff or exchange it if you're not happy with it. Will definitely be monitoring the situations with issues here closely as well. Edmunds just got a check engine light for a faulty fuel filler neck. Oops, probably a tolerancing issue from the supplier building that. Stuff like that can happen when you ramp up to full production that you won't necessarily see or catch in prototyping.

CarBrain
10-01-2010, 09:41 AM
Will the cars being built in October be better than the ones in September and the September ones being better than the August ones and so forth and so forth?

I am asking this because I just made the order for the 550i yesterday so I hope some of the bugs could be prevented from earlier builds.

mautzi
10-01-2010, 12:20 PM
yes but the engines themselves are not new. the N63 that's in the 550 has been used since the 2008 model of the X6.

kocsis
10-01-2010, 12:47 PM
It's the electronics and mechanical gremlins - they are annoying and undermine a sense of quality and confidence. Since you can't just take a car back if it's defective, these types of problems should be ironed out before commercial distribution. Though I suspect we will soon be sitting in our garage listening to some off-shore outsourced support person reading a manual and telling us how to fix the car ourselves (sounds familiar?).

quackbury
10-01-2010, 02:53 PM
Same thing happened when they launched the E60. Withing 2 years, they had the bugs ironed out. But these posts sound a lot like hte ones on the Road Fly boards back in 2003-2004.

Early adopters almost always have issues. Even the new iPhone needed to be recalled. It's the price you pay if you "need" to be the first on your block (or at your country club) with the new toy.

SteVTEC
10-01-2010, 04:10 PM
It's the electronics and mechanical gremlins - they are annoying and undermine a sense of quality and confidence. Since you can't just take a car back if it's defective, these types of problems should be ironed out before commercial distribution.Not a realistic expectation, unless you're willing to accept 10 year design cycles rather than 7, and would be willing to pay a whole lot more for your car, like 25-50% more. Ironing out all issues before commercial release would basically involve BMW going into full production years prior to actual launch, paying for and driving the snot out of the vehicles themselves to find where the bugs are in the full production spec cars over the first 1-2 years, fixing them over the 3rd, and then finally releasing to production with a whole lot of cars to dispose of that would no longer be useful and couldn't be sold new.

Since this isn't realistic, that's what warranties and dealership service centers are for. :)

nosnoop
10-01-2010, 04:32 PM
Will the cars being built in October be better than the ones in September and the September ones being better than the August ones and so forth and so forth?

Most likely not, unless they discover something really major (e.g. would have resulted in recalls if not corrected). Otherwise, most of the changes (fixing the bugs) occur during model year change, and sometimes, mid-year update.

quackbury
10-01-2010, 04:42 PM
Most likely not, unless they discover something really major (e.g. would have resulted in recalls if not corrected). Otherwise, most of the changes (fixing the bugs) occur during model year change, and sometimes, mid-year update.

In the E60/61 and the E9X M3, most bugs were corrected by software updates (Progmans). I expect this will continue for the F10. Unfortunately, many of the Progmans take a REALLY long time to load, as multiple systems / sensors have to be recoded. Not unusual for the car to sit at the dealership overnight, connected to the computer. Woule be nice if they could "push" the updates down to your car via BMW Assist, but I haven't heard of that happening yet.

Due to the time, complexity and expense involved, traditionally only the folks who complained got the updates. Lots of folks spent time on the E60 board learning how to "spin" their request so that the Center would be authorized to do the update. Some of the issues were pretty minor (e.g. "My CD player keeps running after the car is turned off, and a different track is cued up when I come back out to the car after buying groceries." Other complaints were much more substantial (like the problems iwht the M-DCT software). But it almost became a game to see how many complaints you could lodge with yout dealer to get your software updated.

History may well repeat itself for the F10 early adapters.

dadesidon
10-01-2010, 06:44 PM
Update - been working with the dealer. They think the problem is related to the ignition/BUS system. Getting more information from BMW. May get the car at the end of next week.

kocsis
10-01-2010, 08:05 PM
Is that appropriate? Brand new car, presumably paying lease or loan payment (or at least insurance), and it's sitting at the dealer.....

Financeman
10-01-2010, 09:17 PM
I hope OP's problem is soon addressed....its wrong to make lease payments on something that is not drivable due to a product defect. Take a look at JD Powers initial quality survey ratings during the first 90 days of ownership. BMW is actually lower than average overall; much lower than MB, Lexus, and even Audi. BMW needs to wake up....a bad reputation is difficult to overcome.

dadesidon
10-02-2010, 11:37 AM
Is that appropriate? Brand new car, presumably paying lease or loan payment (or at least insurance), and it's sitting at the dealer.....

This has already been discussed with BMW and we are going to figure it out. Definitely one of my concerns.

joshbw
10-02-2010, 05:16 PM
Years ago my Porsche 911 needed a new engine. The entire thing was covered under warranty but the whole process took like a month. I called Porsche up and said no way I am paying for that month and they should pick up my next month for my inconvenience and they did just that. BMW should have zero problem picking up a payment for a problem like this. Good luck

1HOT BMR
10-02-2010, 05:42 PM
BMW needs to wake up....a bad reputation is difficult to overcome.

I thought the bad reputation was already established. I just bought my new and first ever BMW "knowing" that it is an unreliable car - at least, that is my thought as I get into this adventure. For years I've been hearing all the problems BMWs have, several of my friends who own or have owned BMWs have had problems. A friend owned a 7 series years ago and he had to put TWO new engines in it - under warranty both, but . . . . . still. BMW HPFP problems filtered into other car forums I visit and that is how I learned all about those.

After three Acuras which have been the most reliable cars I have ever owned, I'm diving into a first year BMW - God help me! :rofl:

CarBrain
10-02-2010, 05:51 PM
After three Acuras which have been the most reliable cars I have ever owned, I'm diving into a first year BMW - God help me! :rofl:


I have the exact feeling. I just ordered the 550i and this will be my first BMW. In fact, it is the first BMW in both sides of my family (and we have a large extended family with losts of relatives). Most drive Japanese cars.

BMW is know to my relatives as "Big Money Waster"

southernbelle
10-03-2010, 11:05 AM
I guess I was lucky with my first BMW then. It was a 2003 530 and I owned it for 6.5 yrs. It was the best car I've ever had. (Compared to Mazda RX7, 4 Accords, Volvo S60, etc.) Granted that was the last year that particular model was made so they had worked out most of the kinks. I am now looking forward to picking up a new 528 at the Performance Center this week and have my fingers crossed that my experience with the new one will be as good, if not better, than the 530.

tadtaggert
10-03-2010, 11:32 AM
I guess I was lucky with my first BMW then. It was a 2003 530 and I owned it for 6.5 yrs. It was the best car I've ever had. (Compared to Mazda RX7, 4 Accords, Volvo S60, etc.) Granted that was the last year that particular model was made so they had worked out most of the kinks. I am now looking forward to picking up a new 528 at the Performance Center this week and have my fingers crossed that my experience with the new one will be as good, if not better, than the 530.

The 550i is my 4th BMW, never had any service other than standard maint. on any of them, more reliable than anything I've owned.

smhoer
10-03-2010, 12:26 PM
Owned 4 BMWs. Only issue encountered was the HPFP replacement. The light came on, made appt, pump replaced in 2 hrs and oil changed.

avidude
10-03-2010, 12:34 PM
My first BMW, a 2008 550i. Now owned for 3 yrs and 60k miles. No problems at all, only at the dealer for maintenance service. Can't say that for my two previous MBZ E Class.

solstice
10-03-2010, 07:00 PM
I've owned 5 bmws, no real problems until the E60 535i with the HPFP/injector issue and an unreliable engine oil sensor. Now my F10 has "Dynamic drive malfunction". These newer super high tech models definately acts and feel more fragile than the more mechanical models of the past. And I agree that the Japs still has better QC, we had an Acura RSX "run arounder" for my wife for a while. It was a wonder of reliability and so is our 2001 Pathfinder.

SteVTEC
10-04-2010, 06:41 AM
I thought the bad reputation was already established. I just bought my new and first ever BMW "knowing" that it is an unreliable car - at least, that is my thought as I get into this adventure. For years I've been hearing all the problems BMWs have, several of my friends who own or have owned BMWs have had problems. A friend owned a 7 series years ago and he had to put TWO new engines in it - under warranty both, but . . . . . still. BMW HPFP problems filtered into other car forums I visit and that is how I learned all about those.

After three Acuras which have been the most reliable cars I have ever owned, I'm diving into a first year BMW - God help me! :rofl:Have owned nothing but Japanese cars here too, and they've almost all been super boring to drive, or lacking that last bit of refinement. The wife and I are both bored to tears with Japanese vehicles and want something that's actually exciting and has some curb appeal, so that's why we're going with a BMW next.

It does help that our newest car, a recent Toyota, has had a oil line recall, needed a new steering column, and now has a diff whine prompting a replacement transmission. Also the battery died once and while it was possible to jump start the car it was impossible to drive because the electric power steering kept locking and unlocking itself. Had to be towed to the dealership, not knowing if it was the battery or a computer issue of some sort. It was the battery, at not even 2 years old. We figure if we're going to have all sorts of issues like that on a friggin Toyota, then why not buy a BMW?? At least then you'll have a much nicer car and actually be expecting some problems because it's a BMW, whereas a Toyota is always far more boring to drive and it's not expected that you're going to have any problems. Yet recent Toyotas have had plenty. Ours wasn't even afflicted by the gas pedal recalls, but it still has an absolutely lousy and completely non-linear electronic throttle control that makes it incredibly annoying to drive. The BMW was noticeably better here and could at least be adjusted depending on what mode you were in (D vs DS).

Plan is to lease in the spring since it'll be a first year model, and if we like it probably buy the second time around since they'll have a lot more of the bugs worked out, or if it sucks and ends up being a complete waste of time and a major source of aggravation just go back to the nice and boring Japanese cars. We can still fly in to Munich once in awhile, but rent a Porsche from AVIS rather than picking up a BMW. :p

Financeman
10-04-2010, 07:17 AM
Good luck SteVTEC....its a sad situation when reliable cars are increasly difficult to identify. In my opinion BMW and Toyota could do much better.

TMQ
10-04-2010, 04:39 PM
That's why a Honda is always worth considering - more fun to drive than other Japanese models, and good reliability comes with it. Those with S2000 and Civic Si do enjoy the best of both worlds.

1HOT BMR
10-04-2010, 06:14 PM
Have owned nothing but Japanese cars here too, and they've almost all been super boring to drive, or lacking that last bit of refinement. The wife and I are both bored to tears with Japanese vehicles and want something that's actually exciting and has some curb appeal, so that's why we're going with a BMW next.

This one is japanese and not boring - it has a bit of refinement too. :D

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/album.php?albumid=3859&pictureid=15665

SteVTEC
10-06-2010, 08:11 AM
LOL

The NSX was discontinued and replaced by... ???
The S2000 was discontinued and replaced by... ???

Oh they have a new CR-Z now which at least looks nice, but needs at least another 50-100hp. Yippy. :rolleyes:

The Civic Si is actually one of the few half decent cars in the entire Honda and Acura lineup if you just happen to be in the market for a sport compact car, which I'm not. Even then it still gets creamed by just about everybody else in that market (Mazdaspeed3, new Focus coming, GTI, etc). Even the new Odyssey got smacked by their designers ugly stick now!

Pretty sad days for Honda/Acura. They did have plans for a mid-sized RWD car and V8s and all sorts of other stuff for the Acura line but it all got cancelled, so they keep building and iterating their Honda Accord clones to death. Honda needs a management shakeup bad. The people in charge have no clue WTF they're doing, are making very bad product decisions, and even some prominent industry watchers and analysts have noticed this.

DreamCar
10-06-2010, 11:35 AM
+1 Honda sucks big time
And that reliability crap doesn't work any more.

Have replaced brakes about four times on my 2 year old accord.

Elias
10-06-2010, 02:09 PM
+1 Honda sucks big time
And that reliability crap doesn't work any more.

Have replaced brakes about four times on my 2 year old accord.

Same goes for Toyota they've gotten so big they've had to stray away from their
Quality control systems to meet demand. They've had to expand their supply network and have lost control of the quality of parts their suppliers provide for them. Their trying to rectify the problem it won't be over night.

Financeman
10-06-2010, 07:04 PM
Forget Honda and Toyota...they have lost their quality edge. I think Hyundai has become the new choice for value, reliability, and build quality. The 2011 Sonota was the only other car out of 34 tested to equal the BMW F10 in the safety ratings just released a few days ago. Just for kicks I looked at one...obviously not comparable to a 5, but actually quite good, especially for the price point. The paint was surprisingly impressive. The weakness is probably the dealer network.

2008550I
10-06-2010, 08:34 PM
The 550i is my 4th BMW, never had any service other than standard maint. on any of them, more reliable than anything I've owned.

I'm on my 2nd 550i. 1st new 2008 E60, now F10 550i. No probs with the E60 other than replacing the battery after 2.5 yrs. Got 7K plus miles on my F10 550i. No probs so far and I don't drive in fear of having any either. :drive:

gEEkChris
10-08-2010, 09:01 AM
Any updates on this from the OP? I would like to hear the result.

dadesidon
10-09-2010, 09:37 AM
Any updates on this from the OP? I would like to hear the result.

Car is still sitting at the dealer (it has been a week and two days). They said that there was an issue with the CCC, which is a pretty major deal. They are getting help from the Germans to make sure that the situation is fixed properly as I had done a trade assist on my last e60 535i and so I may go crazy if I start having issues with the new one too.

So basically...lots of talk but no substantive updates.

dadesidon
10-12-2010, 06:35 PM
Update: Dealer is doing some sort of "super-programming" which requires the car to be hooked up to some machinery and re-programmed from NJ. Apparently there's no mechanical issue.

Let's see how this goes.

quackbury
10-12-2010, 08:10 PM
The tech who does the reprogramming is really, really good. I think you'll be 100 % satisfied. His name is Herr Doktor Braun, and here's his picture:

DreamCar
10-12-2010, 08:16 PM
Oh my god looks like there are crap load of issues with these cars.
All these days I had a very good image about BMW...these issues across the forum looks like bmw is not paying much attention to quality analysis or proper testing.
I am slowly getting scared to buy this car ....70k car with all these issues :(