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solstice
09-30-2010, 11:06 PM
I had the message "Dynamic drive malfunction" appearing in I-drive twice while in Europe on my ED. It also had the funny msg "Cornering behaviour reduced" in the instrument cluster and a little picture of a car experiencing body roll. It disappeared with a "reboot" by turning the car off and on. I made Harms write it as a message to VDC and thought it was history since I haven't seen it since re-delivery, that is until today... It came back but disappeared at the next stop-start. I'm going to call service tomorrow and ask if they can see something after the msg clears or if it has to be active for them to be able to analyse.
Anyone else experienced this?

kocsis
10-01-2010, 05:05 AM
I am starting to reconsider my choice of cars. I ordered the 550ix, but this thread, plus the "Problems" thread below makes me think: is this a good idea. There are too many electronics/ computer run operations in this car, and being the first year of issue, the inevitable gremlines (a la Microsoft operating systems) are scary. Plus the idiotic idea of an electronic transmission selector lever, which is inoperable when the car has no juice left - hence cannot be put into neutral - is annoying and unnecessary. My other option is the S4, which has a manual gear selector and has a very good maintenance record. What do folks think? I would hate to spend $70+k on a car and have to constantly take it to the shop.

DXK
10-01-2010, 07:07 AM
I think the F10 shares lots of components, including dynamic drive with 7 series, which has been around longer, and is built at the same plant. The engine in 550 is also same as in X6 and 750. One can scan the respective threads to see what issues, if any people have encountered.

solstice
10-01-2010, 09:56 AM
Thanks DXK, I did some serches and it turns out that it's connected to ARS and therefore was seen on all kinds of models incl. E60s. The causes seems to vary as leaking ARS hydraulic fluid, faulty control board, faulty sensor etc. I'll book a service appointment.

1HOT BMR
10-01-2010, 11:26 AM
I am starting to reconsider my choice of cars. I ordered the 550ix, but this thread, plus the "Problems" thread below makes me think: is this a good idea. There are too many electronics/ computer run operations in this car, and being the first year of issue, the inevitable gremlines (a la Microsoft operating systems) are scary. Plus the idiotic idea of an electronic transmission selector lever, which is inoperable when the car has no juice left - hence cannot be put into neutral - is annoying and unnecessary. My other option is the S4, which has a manual gear selector and has a very good maintenance record. What do folks think? I would hate to spend $70+k on a car and have to constantly take it to the shop.

Buy the S4, it is a beautiful car. However, it is not totally free of problems, the water pumps are still self destructing and I've seen a couple of instances where the high pressure fuel rail failed. I was seriously considering the S4 before I ordered my 550 so I researched it extensively. I would bet that the S4 will prove to be more reliable than the new F10 but I'm willing to put up with some reliability issues to drive what IMO is an excitiing sports sedan.

carnuts3
10-01-2010, 11:54 AM
I am starting to reconsider my choice of cars. I ordered the 550ix, but this thread, plus the "Problems" thread below makes me think: is this a good idea. There are too many electronics/ computer run operations in this car, and being the first year of issue, the inevitable gremlines (a la Microsoft operating systems) are scary. Plus the idiotic idea of an electronic transmission selector lever, which is inoperable when the car has no juice left - hence cannot be put into neutral - is annoying and unnecessary. My other option is the S4, which has a manual gear selector and has a very good maintenance record. What do folks think? I would hate to spend $70+k on a car and have to constantly take it to the shop.

Yep, for all the concerns you raise and the fact that I was disappointed after multiple test drives (F10 drives too "large" for me) I went out and ordered an S4. Great car even if it is a little small vs my E60. Saved money too! I'm still a BMW customer as my wife drives a 328xi. But for me, after 13 yrs of driving a BMW, I felt compelled to change - at least for awhile. Good luck in your decision.

nlk10010
10-01-2010, 01:45 PM
I had the message "Dynamic drive malfunction" appearing in I-drive twice while in Europe on my ED. It also had the funny msg "Cornering behaviour reduced" in the instrument cluster and a little picture of a car experiencing body roll. It disappeared with a "reboot" by turning the car off and on. I made Harms write it as a message to VDC and thought it was history since I haven't seen it since re-delivery, that is until today... It came back but disappeared at the next stop-start. I'm going to call service tomorrow and ask if they can see something after the msg clears or if it has to be active for them to be able to analyse.
Anyone else experienced this?

I had essentially the same problem with my new '10 E60 550i, in particular when the car sat in the cold for an extended period of time. It was supposedly fixed after they kept the car for two days and diagnosed (with the "help" of BMW) the problem as a faulty sensor. However, given what I know about Rallye I wouldn't be surprised to see the problem resurface this winter. However, if you have a competent service department it shouldn't be too difficult to fix.

dkerr
10-02-2010, 08:43 AM
My 2007 X5 has had Dynamic Drive Malfunction occur several times during its life. Occurs only when I hit a pothole (thank you New York City) and always resets itself by stoping and starting the engine. Dealership has made several attempts to diagnose the problem but they never turn up a fault. We speculate that it is wheel speed sensor reporting (correctly) that something weird happened to wheel rotation when hitting the pothole and the dynamic drive system interpreting it as a fault of some sort.

This has not put me off including Dynamic Drive in my 535i xDrive that is currently sitting in New Jersey (having been offloaded from the Manon two days late thanks to longshoremen striking for 48 hours :cry: ). I just try and avoid potholes (which is a good thing to do anyway).

DAK

solstice
10-02-2010, 10:05 AM
Thanks for the info dkerr, I got to say that you are a nice customer. I will not accept anything other than a full fix independent of the cause. I'll lemon it if needed. This is a brand new $60k luxuary car, I'm not interrested in seeing a fat error on my I-drive and my instrument cluster appearing randomly. It's unsettling especially for my wife and embarrassing wen you have guests/customers in the car.

solstice
10-04-2010, 12:41 PM
Update: The error is now constantly there. It no longer goes away with switching the car on and off. I actually prefer that since it will be easier to trouble shoot for the mechanics. I have an appointment tomorrow, will let you know how it progresses.

solstice
10-05-2010, 01:55 PM
At the dealer now. No visible damage, SW tests ok. Believed to be a faulty ARS valve. New valve mechanism ordered from Germany. ~2w estimated until arrival and then a loaner car while they work on it. I'll let you know as it progresses.

solstice
10-05-2010, 10:36 PM
I forgot to mention one thing. With this problem I only have two dynamic modes. Comfort and normal. The computer allows me to choose Sport but after thinking about it for a couple of seconds it kicks it back to Normal. No Sport for you, I have a headache...

solstice
10-12-2010, 05:07 PM
Here we go...dropped of the car this morning and was told it will be ready in the afternoon. After a few hours I got the message that only the technicians test drive remained so it was close to pickup. However at the test drive the error came back. The dynamic drive malfunction details apparently reads "oil contamination" something that should be impossible according to the tech. It's now believed to be a SW error and I'm driving an E60 loaner. A plain Jane 535iX with 17' wheels etc, etc. A few things that strikes me immediately:

- The E60s looks really feels dated inside and out after driving the F10.
- The N54 setup has more lag both from the turbo and transmission but pulls a bit harder once it gets going. I prefer the F10s N55 - 8 speed drive train.
- The F10 is a giant step in luxuary.
- The E60 does feel smaller to drive, i.e lighter and more nimble.
- The E60 steering is far superior as discussed to length. It communicates the road surface a heck of a lot more even with floppy 50 profile 17' wheels and the steering wheel is much better, thicker and grippier.

So nothing new, just re-confirmed what has been discussed before.

Driving this E60 makes me even more frustrated that bmw down prioritized a few crucial but what seems to me easy to address areas on the F10.
A proper sports steering wheel, adjustable seat side bolsters, sport springs and a traditional bmw steering feel would have made immediate wonders for the F10 while a larger weigth reduction could be a longer-term project.

solstice
10-13-2010, 10:39 PM
Got an update from the service advisor after another day of trouble shooting. They have basically no idea what is wrong, there is no prior experience of this problem on the F10, it's to new.
Btw before this loaner I have driven a handful of N54 equipped cars and none was as powerful as mine was but the loaner I have now is a bit of a beast ( relatively of course ), it has more lag than any of the other cars but pulls really hard while the turbos are hauling louder than I heard from any N54. I start to suspect that the techs have had some fun with it...

nosnoop
10-13-2010, 10:53 PM
There are two more reports of similar/identical problems of "Dynamic Drive Malfunction" in the other forum (http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442538). One is a 520d, the other is a 550i. So it looks like it is system problem, and not specific to any particularly model.

solstice
10-13-2010, 11:01 PM
There are two more reports of similar/identical problems of "Dynamic Drive Malfunction" in the other forum (http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442538). One is a 520d, the other is a 550i. So it looks like it is system problem, and not specific to any particularly model.

Thanks nosnoop! That I-drive msg in the pic. is exactly like mine. Since the 550i is here in the US at least they'll have two cars built to the same standards with this issue. More techs with different experiences working on this is a good thing.

solstice
10-14-2010, 02:48 PM
Update. Metal shavings found in the ARS system. My dealer is waiting for confirmation from the "New Jersey head engineer" who is calling the shots if they can go ahead and replace the whole enchilada (ars not the car) and do some general "fluid flush".

AntDX316
10-15-2010, 07:17 AM
They probably didn't iron out all the problems in the new 2011 5-series. It's like the iPhone 4 with the 3 metal bands for better reception. Unfortunately, when they are conducted together it malfunctions. Same with BMW, probably adding new features and stuff to prevent it from not working properly was overlooked and new problems arose. They usually find a fix in the future after many problems and add it to their BMW service article collection.

PoleApart
10-15-2010, 08:47 AM
On my E60 the dynamic drive fault light would regularly come on once every month - usually in a sudden fast 90 degree turn manouvre.

solstice
10-15-2010, 10:15 AM
Mine started like that but it was more like once every day and then went to constantly on. Perhaps I used up a lifetimes cornering abilities on the superb backroads in the Alps. :)

solstice
10-15-2010, 02:24 PM
Update. The hydraulic oil will be flushed, the ars pump replaced and new oil added. The shavings are believed to come from the pump. The parts are shipped from NJ and the estimated time to completion is mid next week.

solstice
10-20-2010, 03:16 PM
They found shavings in the new valve mechanism as well and needed to order one more. It arrived today to my dealer who thinks the new pump, valve box and flushing plus an extensive test drive will be finished by tomorrow pm.

1HOT BMR
10-20-2010, 03:41 PM
They found shavings in the new valve mechanism as well and needed to order one more. It arrived today to my dealer who thinks the new pump, valve box and flushing plus an extensive test drive will be finished by tomorrow pm.

This is really bad news because it indicates a quality control problem at the supplier level. I suspect the amount of shavings present in the valve will determine how long it lasts before it fails - for some of us, it may show up after the warranty is past. :tsk::tsk:

solstice
10-20-2010, 10:04 PM
1HOT_BMR I think my service advisor meant that during the short test drive they did with the new valve box it got contaminated immediately by the old pump that apparently is eating itself and causing the shavings. Now when they are going to put in a new pump they want to be sure that none of that contamination will get out in the system and thereby ordered another new valve box. They felt that it was nearly impossible to clean the valve box and be sure all shavings are gone. Time will tell how common the self-eating pumps are...I haven't seen any updates from the two cases in the other forum.

1HOT BMR
10-21-2010, 08:39 PM
1HOT_BMR I think my service advisor meant that during the short test drive they did with the new valve box it got contaminated immediately by the old pump that apparently is eating itself and causing the shavings. Now when they are going to put in a new pump they want to be sure that none of that contamination will get out in the system and thereby ordered another new valve box. They felt that it was nearly impossible to clean the valve box and be sure all shavings are gone. Time will tell how common the self-eating pumps are...I haven't seen any updates from the two cases in the other forum.

Thanks for the additional explanation that helps me understand what is happening with your car. I wish I knew more about how the suspension works. How many pumps are there to keep it all running smoothly? Are they High Pressure pumps like the new fuel pumps? Can you point me to a link where I can educate myself on the workings of the F10 Dynamic Handling Package?

solstice
10-21-2010, 10:38 PM
Here's a link that gives you an idea. I think bmw uses ZF ars in the 5 series. It used to share pump with the hydraulic steering so perhaps this is the new gremlin. A new special pump now when the steering is no longer using a pump. Perhaps this new pump is not of the same quality/tolerance since ars is not a critical safety function while steering is.

http://www.zf.com/zfXmlServlet?sessionAttribute=xmlRoot&languageISOCode=EN&resultUrl=/corporate/en/products/product_overview/ProductContentPage.jsp&serviceUrl=http://appsprod01.zf.com/zf.productDataBase/service//applicationLayerSelect&applicationGroupID=&divisionShortcut=&applicationID=12288&businessUnitShortcut=&productFormID=318349&productGroupID=12149&productTypeID=318373&productTechnicID=12142

Update: My service rep. told me that they had to order yet another component that will arrive next week. Boy am I glad this is a warranty job... The thing is these kind of things doesn't bother my a fraction as much as the lack of sportiness in the F10 since this will be fixed even if they need to replace every single piece of ars.

bm323
10-21-2010, 11:32 PM
It is unfortunate the quality control is not good/poor, as can be seen from various complaints about the F10 in its first months of production. Some of the complaints are due to defects and they are not features of the F10. However, such defects would naturally affect one's perception of the F10 esp the owners of the defective ones.

solstice
10-21-2010, 11:41 PM
It is unfortunate the quality control is not good/poor, as can be seen from various complaints about the F10 in its first months of production. Some of the complaints are due to defects and they are not features of the F10. However, such defects would naturally affect one's perception of the F10 esp the owners of the defective ones.

I'll add that to the lessons learnt, never buy a european car that will be built when the country that manufactures it is in the running for the world cup in soccer

bm323
10-22-2010, 12:36 AM
I'll add that to the lessons learnt, never buy a european car that will be built when the country that manufactures it is in the running for the world cup in soccer

I'll bear this in mind :)

ps Thinking about it further, actually your point may be very real, as there is a substantial discrepancy in the quality of the product taking into account the feedback from F10 owners.

solstice
10-27-2010, 10:46 PM
Got the car back today after 15 days in the shop. Everything seems fine with the repair, my dealer has a stellar service department, never any excuses or trying to get out easy only full fixes whatever the effort and cost involved. The cost btw was $3500 only for the parts so if this was out of warranty it would have been a $5000+ adventure. Something to think of before you put on any mods that risk voiding warranty of ars...

Emilner
11-28-2010, 02:20 PM
Well, I hate to say it but my car just started giving me the same problem today! Same error message only mine came on and has stayed on. The worst part is I just was getting on the road for a drive to Staten Island, a nice 120 mile round trip left in what felt like comfort mode. CRAP!!!!!!

sambb
11-28-2010, 03:41 PM
It is so unfortunate that such major reliability problems are already plaguing the f10. Hope BMW improves it in the future... Glad the service worked out.

Emilner
11-28-2010, 05:23 PM
I have a few crazy weeks ahead of me, I don't want to be without my car. Ugh

EvolutionTheory
11-28-2010, 06:06 PM
For those of you with this issue, are your cars post Sept builds? Solstice's would have to be pre but what about you Emilner?

Emilner
11-28-2010, 06:19 PM
Yes my car is (it's AWD)
...

EvolutionTheory
11-28-2010, 06:38 PM
Yes my car is (it's AWD)
...
Missed that, sorry! :eeps:

madhotm3
08-14-2011, 12:35 PM
sorry for posting on this old thread ... but it looks like the most recent one about this particular issue..
I'm a new member but I've been roaming the boards of this forum for a while.

With less than 1500 miles, I had the same error on my car (535i x-drive, M-sport). I am aware that the OP made a deal with BMW and the car was a lemon. I hope this doesn't happen to me too...would hate to let her go.
I brought the car to BMW, the dealer diagnosed the problem - power steering pump is on order from Germany. I don't see how the dynamic drive system is related to the power steering pump but... The part should be here this week...we'll see if it resolves the issue.

I'm curios to know how many others had this issue on the F10 and what was the fix...

(ot: when the SA told me they ordered a steering pump, I was surprised as I thought the new F10 has electric steering...I've read that that is the case with RWD models only...can someone confirm this?)

radarguy
08-14-2011, 02:10 PM
(ot: when the SA told me they ordered a steering pump, I was surprised as I thought the new F10 has electric steering...I've read that that is the case with RWD models only...can someone confirm this?)

Yes, X-drives have hydraulic power steering and the RWD have electric. The diagnosis sounds suspicious since I think the dynamic drive is all electric driven. Keep us informed.

solstice
08-14-2011, 03:35 PM
Yes, X-drives have hydraulic power steering and the RWD have electric. The diagnosis sounds suspicious since I think the dynamic drive is all electric driven. Keep us informed.

Ars is hydraulic and while the rwd cars have a separate ars pump due to the lack of a steering pump the Xdrive share pump between ars and the steering like other BMW ars equipped cars with hydraulic steering and ars like for example the E60 sport. Some E60 owners had ars noises fixed by adding hydraulic oil to the steering so it's a direct relation. Hopefully there are proper filters between the steering and ars so that you can't get the metal shavings my ars kept generating into the steering system.

radarguy
08-14-2011, 06:00 PM
Ars is hydraulic and while the rwd cars have a separate ars pump due to the lack of a steering pump the Xdrive share pump between ars and the steering like other BMW ars equipped cars with hydraulic steering and ars like for example the E60 sport. Some E60 owners had ars noises fixed by adding hydraulic oil to the steering so it's a direct relation. Hopefully there are proper filters between the steering and ars so that you can't get the metal shavings my ars kept generating into the steering system.

Good to know. I looked and couldn't find the hydraulic reservoir. Can the fluid be checked?

madhotm3
09-07-2011, 05:25 AM
sorry for posting on this old thread ... but it looks like the most recent one about this particular issue..
I'm a new member but I've been roaming the boards of this forum for a while.

With less than 1500 miles, I had the same error on my car (535i x-drive, M-sport). I am aware that the OP made a deal with BMW and the car was a lemon. I hope this doesn't happen to me too...would hate to let her go.
I brought the car to BMW, the dealer diagnosed the problem - power steering pump is on order from Germany. I don't see how the dynamic drive system is related to the power steering pump but... The part should be here this week...we'll see if it resolves the issue.

I'm curios to know how many others had this issue on the F10 and what was the fix...

(ot: when the SA told me they ordered a steering pump, I was surprised as I thought the new F10 has electric steering...I've read that that is the case with RWD models only...can someone confirm this?)

UPDATE: three weeks later the pump arrived from Germany...I brought the car to the dealer and had it replaced last week. Didn't get a chance to drive the car until last night and guess what?
Yup, dynamic drive malfunction warning went on again!!! Just like before, it happened when in traffic!

Looks like I'm headed in the same way as the OP.
I didn't like the experience at the particular dealer, does it matter if I take it to another dealer for the same issue (as much as I hate to say it looks like the car may be a lemon, I want to do everything right in case it goes that route)?

radarguy
09-07-2011, 05:49 AM
madhotm3 - You can go to any dealer for warranty work. I have done it and they are more than happy for the business. Some dealers have a policy that if you didn't buy the car at their dealership, they won't give you a loaner. Your situation is unfortunate and frustrating,

madhotm3
09-07-2011, 06:10 AM
madhotm3 - You can go to any dealer for warranty work. I have done it and they are more than happy for the business. Some dealers have a policy that if you didn't buy the car at their dealership, they won't give you a loaner. Your situation is unfortunate and frustrating,

Oh man...you have no idea! I was furious last night when it went back on!

Thanks for your input...I was asking about the lemon law "requirements"...must it be the same dealer or is it ok as long as it's the same issue?
What exactly are the requirements? Same issue unresolved 3 times??

It really sucks and I hate to even think about it, but as great as the car is at this point I want it to be lemon-ed...some of this s**t is unacceptable.

radarguy
09-07-2011, 06:40 AM
Oh man...you have no idea! I was furious last night when it went back on!

Thanks for your input...I was asking about the lemon law "requirements"...must it be the same dealer or is it ok as long as it's the same issue?
What exactly are the requirements? Same issue unresolved 3 times??

It really sucks and I hate to even think about it, but as great as the car is at this point I want it to be lemon-ed...some of this s**t is unacceptable.

I'm not a lawyer, but I copied this from a lawyer's web site.

In New York, you would typically need to demonstrate either 4 repairs for the same defect (with the defect continuing to persist), or 30 days out of service for repair for all defects in the aggregate, within 2 years or 18,000 miles from taking delivery of your vehicle.

It would seem it doesn't matter which dealer you take it to.

These cars are so complex that sometimes you have to find a mechanic that can think beyond the automatic test equipment diagnoses if you want it fixed. I think they are under the gun to complete the repair ASAP and won't be faulted by their company for doing what the test equipment says. Insist on leaving it so you can rack up the 30 days.

madhotm3
09-07-2011, 06:58 AM
Thanks for your response radarguy! I was just looking for that...you made my life easier :thumbup:

madhotm3
09-28-2011, 11:50 AM
UPDATE: dropped the car off at a different dealership yesterday. they diagnosed it and the car needs a new "suspension valve block" (?)
of course, part is coming from Germany...the car will be there for at least 10 days. driving a crappy 328 base until then!

at least these guys will replace my bubbly tires...
hoping the problems are resolved

Needsdecaf
09-28-2011, 01:36 PM
UPDATE: dropped the car off at a different dealership yesterday. they diagnosed it and the car needs a new "suspension valve block" (?)
of course, part is coming from Germany...the car will be there for at least 10 days. driving a crappy 328 base until then!

at least these guys will replace my bubbly tires...
hoping the problems are resolved

The valve block is part of the hydraulic system that actuates the ARS (Active Roll Stabilization). It's been the common cause of problems with DDC, ARS.

madhotm3
10-12-2011, 09:06 AM
ok, another UPDATE: Picked up the car a couple of nights ago...previously the dynamic drive malfunction warning went on whenever I was in traffic, never during normal highway driving. About an hour after picking up the car, of course I hit some traffic and yup warning light went back on!!! Set up another appointment ...

2012_535xi
01-18-2012, 09:12 AM
What ever happened with this madhotm3?

SuperTerp
01-18-2012, 09:44 AM
This is really bad news because it indicates a quality control problem at the supplier level. I suspect the amount of shavings present in the valve will determine how long it lasts before it fails - for some of us, it may show up after the warranty is past. :tsk::tsk:

Yep, if this becomes wide spread your only hope is a HPFP type recall :eeps:

What ever happened with this madhotm3?

I'd like to know as-well.

madhotm3
01-18-2012, 11:49 AM
What ever happened with this madhotm3?

I brought the car to BMW after sending them a certified letter that this is the 3rd and final time they can attempt to fix the problem (lemon law requirement).

I don't have the service report in front of me but I do remember that they replaced just about everything associated with the system, including the previously replaced pump and valve block! The service rep wasn't the friendliest guy in the world so didn't discuss it with him much. To be honest, at that point I was fed up with them - days went by without hearing from them after leaving numerous messages - so I didn't want to talk to them anyhow. Just wanted to take my car back and leave. I am sure they had to replace all components due to metal shavings circulating within.

this time it "only" took 26 days to fix the car! the car spent almost 2 months of it's 6-month long life in the shop!

At this point the problem seems to be gone...one would hope so after all the work they've done. I don't think there was a $ amount on the work order for materials or labor but I'll post back with more details on what exactly was done.