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swchang
12-27-2003, 07:26 PM
Um, so this is probably going to sound lame, but I ordered a manual tranny car. Well, actually that's not the lame part. The lame part is that I haven't ever owned a stick shift and so don't really know how to drive one. (I blame my fellow 'festers for brainwashing me into thinking that autos are for wusses, though. :p)

Anyway, are there any good websites out there or does anyone have any suggestions as to how to learn? I can't find any rental companies that carry non-automatics. However, I went to a dealer and test drove a Toyota Celica for an hour, so I think I have some idea about the basics. According to a couple friends who own a stick, it takes about a month to figure it out. Is my best bet to just be content that I can do some basic shifting and then to just get acquainted with my car when it arrives?

Oh, the other thing is that even if I do figure stuff out with my car, I won't know how to do things like skip gears or whatever. So is there a website with little "tricks"/advanced techniques you can do, or even ones that just list common terms and their definitions?

TIA. :)

Plaz
12-27-2003, 07:33 PM
You'll figure it out just fine. I don't know of any "learn to drive stick" websites, but google is your friend.

The most important thing to keep conscious of is to NOT accidentally or otherwise downshift into too low a gear for the speed you're traveling. There's nothing a rev limiter can do to combat the infamous "money shift."

In other words, for example, make sure you do NOT downshift into 2nd when traveling 85-90 mph on the freeway. If you do, KA-BLAM!! Bye bye engine.

Not trying to freak you out. Just be aware. Release your clutch slowly, and you'll get some warning as the revs jump unnaturally on a mis-shift... pop your clutch, and all bets are off.

swchang
12-27-2003, 08:05 PM
You'll figure it out just fine. I don't know of any "learn to drive stick" websites, but google is your friend.

The most important thing to keep conscious of is to NOT accidentally or otherwise downshift into too low a gear for the speed you're traveling. There's nothing a rev limiter can do to combat the infamous "money shift."

In other words, for example, make sure you do NOT downshift into 2nd when traveling 85-90 mph on the freeway. If you do, KA-BLAM!! Bye bye engine.

Not trying to freak you out. Just be aware. Release your clutch slowly, and you'll get some warning as the revs jump unnaturally on a mis-shift... pop your clutch, and all bets are off.

Yeah, I actually downshifted from 3 to 1 at 30mph a couple times when I was driving the Celica. I thought I was going 2 to 1, but didn't realize I was really in third gear instead of second... Those shifts involved a LOT of jerking. :eeps: Anyway, the car was still fine, I think, but I'd imagine being in the scenario you paint would be far worse for the engine...

Okay, here are two questions I have:

1) Do you have to depress the clutch to shift from gear to neutral?, and

2) When I'm going in reverse to, say, parallel park or just park in a regular parking spot (i.e. I'll be going pretty slowly), do I keep the clutch mostly depressed? I was told going in reverse is like going in first; but if you go slowly enough in either gear, the car still stalls... (BTW, is that called "riding the clutch"?)

Plaz
12-27-2003, 08:24 PM
Yeah, I actually downshifted from 3 to 1 at 30mph a couple times when I was driving the Celica. I thought I was going 2 to 1, but didn't realize I was really in third gear instead of second... Those shifts involved a LOT of jerking. :eeps: Anyway, the car was still fine, I think, but I'd imagine being in the scenario you paint would be far worse for the engine...

Okay, here are two questions I have:

1) Do you have to depress the clutch to shift from gear to neutral?, and

2) When I'm going in reverse to, say, parallel park or just park in a regular parking spot (i.e. I'll be going pretty slowly), do I keep the clutch mostly depressed? I was told going in reverse is like going in first; but if you go slowly enough in either gear, the car still stalls... (BTW, is that called "riding the clutch"?)

1) You don't have to (it won't grind), but it's less wear and tear to use the clutch. Pulling the car out of gear without the clutch, especially under load, can't be good for the tranny. Make a habit of using the clutch.

2) You'll probably slip the clutch some... "slipping" the clutch some is necessary and okay -- slipping being keeping the clutch neither fully engaged nor fully disengaged. Obviously, starting from a stop in either 1st or reverse necessitates some clutch slipping.

"Riding" the clutch is a different matter... some people develop a bad habit of keeping their left foot on the clutch pedal ever so lightly while driving normally. Even though you may not feel it, this will "slip" the clutch a little bit, constantly. Over a long period of time, it will wear out the clutch prematurely. Always keep your left foot on the dead pedal when not shifting, stopped, or starting from a stop.

The only time any appreciable wear occurs on the clutch is during slipping. While some slipping is necessary, as described above, excessive slipping is bad. Don't make a habit of, for instance, slipping the clutch to keep a car from rolling backward on an incline... use your brake. That habit's another sure-fire way to wear out your clutch prematurely.

Also, I would try to make a habit of not putting the shifter into 1st until you've come to a stop. Eventually, you'll develop enough of a feel to pop it into 1st without damaging anything while moving slowly, as you brake to a stop, but your default habit should be to stop first. Additionally (obviously), don't shift into reverse while moving.

You should never have to <i>force</i> the shifter into gear. If you're having trouble getting it into gear, double-check what you're trying to do... you might have the wrong gear.

(Be advised, though, that it may seem like you have to exert more force than you expect to move the shifter through the gate to the left of/below first, in order to get it into reverse. This threw me at first with my 330i... I don't know if it's gotten easier as the tranny has broken in, or if I just got accustomed to it.)

doeboy
12-27-2003, 08:37 PM
This is something that isn't easily described in words... you kinda have to get the feel for things once you get your car. Each car has it's own little quirks as far as how the clutch feels and so on.

Get a feel for the friction point in your car. In time, you'll start feeling just how much you can slip the clutch before it will grab and stall your engine. You'll start getting the feel for when the engine is close to stalling and develop a reflex to clutch in. It will take some time to condition your left foot muscles to be able to handle the clutch. Also, depending on the car, you may want to feed a little throttle while letting the clutch out. It's a bit of a balancing act. On the BMWs, there's generally enough torque where you don't need to do this, but on cars with smaller motors that have less torque, this becomes almost necessary.

As for shifting from gear to neutral, generally you want to press the clutch in when doing that. Some people don't. But as a general rule, if you're going to do anything with the gearbox, clutch in.

Try not to pistol grip the stick. This is a common cause of the so-called money shifts. Shifting is also a driver dependent thing. Everyone develops their own style. Personally, I hold the shifter from the top, cupping my hand around the top. This seems to work best for me and reduces the chance for a money-shift.

Bottom line is... practice basic shifting first... don't get too creative until you feel comfortable with the basic stuff. Over time it will come naturally. My last car was my first manual car, and I learned on it. Needless to say it was an "interesting" experience. I've driven manuals like once or twice before that so I knew the idea behind the gears and all that, but as with any car, you have to get used to how that car feels. The first night, my friend took me out to an empty parking lot and we drove around in circles practicing my stops and starts. Once you get moving, everything else is cake.

I've taught a couple of my other friends after that, and I did the same thing. Went out to an empty lot and had them practice starts and stops. Then it just goes from there.

whew... ok... enough of my :blah: :blah: for now. :p :)

Good luck with the car when it arrives.

visor
12-27-2003, 08:38 PM
Practice, practice, and practice. :D

Seriously, it'll come with experience. If you're not comfortable shifting yet, you might want to practice a bit first on an older clunker car from a friend/relative. Take your time, be slow and deliberate with your clutch and shifter, never forcing anything. And as Plaz says, just make sure not to do the "money shift".

Do a search on this forum on "shifting". I remember there were some good websites on how to shift, how to hold the shiftknob (ie. not joystick style), double-clutch, match-rev, etc.

Oh, and don't forget to have fun and be one with the engine and the car as you only can with a manual tranny! :flame: (flame suit on)

swchang
12-27-2003, 08:39 PM
Thanks for the reply. About your last point, I actually went to the Washington Auto Show today and checked out the 330i ZHP they had there. The shifter shifted very easily, especially compared to how the Celica shifted. Maybe it's a Toyota thing in general, since a 2002 used Solara my friend and I checked out also took a great deal of force to get into gear.

Anyway, could you clarify the first point you made? You say it's less wear to use the clutch. Do you mean I should use the clutch when I shift into neutral, or do you mean I shouldn't bother with shifting into neutral and I should just depress the clutch?

Also, you say that "slipping" the clutch (neither fully depressed nor fully released) is the greatest cause of wear. That means fully depressing the clutch is actually not going to wear it as much as only partially depressing it? So if I want to coast to a halt and I'm too lazy to shift into neutral, can I just fully depress the clutch and then use my brakes?

doeboy
12-27-2003, 08:40 PM
a couple more :blah: :blah: points... :D

Like Plaz said... don't ride the clutch...

and try not to get in the habit of resting your hand on the shifter.

I'm done. :D

BlackChrome
12-27-2003, 08:44 PM
I don't think what you did is lame. I learned how to drive a stick years ago and I am not an expert, but sticks sure are more fun than automagics. The fact that you have the desire to learn and have the "right" attitude ("stick is better") tells us that you aren't lame at all. :thumbup:

It took me a while to get a hang of driving a stick. I learned in a rental Geo Metro (you have no idea how hard it was to find someone who would rent stick shift cars) and that was a torture: no power, long clutch travel, no power steering, etc. It took me at least 3 days to actually have the courage to drive on the street, with traffic! After that, it took me a lot of pratice to get really well with it (I was a lot attendant for a dealership and I had lots of pratice there. LoL!). The good thing about learning in a crappy car is that when you step in a nicer car, you'll get real excited at how easy it is to drive a stick. We bought a brand new Integra GSR for my brother and let me tell you, the first time I drove it, I felt like a professional! :D

Anyway, Plaz has stated a lot of good tips already. I just want to add that it does take a lot of pratice to get used to it. Once you are used to a stick shift, you'll know what to do naturally . I used to hate parallel parking because if I don't do it right, I'd stall the car easily. But now it's just like any other driving situation.

Keep asking questions and good luck to you! :)

Plaz
12-27-2003, 09:16 PM
Anyway, could you clarify the first point you made? You say it's less wear to use the clutch. Do you mean I should use the clutch when I shift into neutral, or do you mean I shouldn't bother with shifting into neutral and I should just depress the clutch?

Also, you say that "slipping" the clutch (neither fully depressed nor fully released) is the greatest cause of wear. That means fully depressing the clutch is actually not going to wear it as much as only partially depressing it? So if I want to coast to a halt and I'm too lazy to shift into neutral, can I just fully depress the clutch and then use my brakes?

I meant you should use the clutch when shifting into neutral. It's fine to coast to a stop in gear with the clutch disengaged (the pedal depressed). Though some would argue that puts wear on the throwout bearing, I personally feel that's a pretty negligible point. Your actual clutch will wear out before the throwout bearing does, and chances are the bearing will be replaced when the clutch is replaced.

Don't get too caught up in all the minutae we're discussing here... keep it in the back of your mind, but really, with enough seat time, you'll feel your way through it. Like I said initially, just beware the money shift.

:thumbup:

ayn
12-27-2003, 10:50 PM
don't worry about it, u'll be fine... the clutch in the E46 is pretty strange tho, and not the easiest thing to drive, but u will just have to drive it and learn as u go... after u get good in driving a stick u will never go back to auto...

--Andrew

AndDown
12-27-2003, 11:17 PM
More hints: when up or down-shifting into first or second gears, shift with the palm of your hand facing inwards (towards you). When shifting into third, fourth, or fifth, shift with the palm of your hand facing outwards (away from you). This prevents the possibility of mis-shifting, esp. when downshifting. BTW, I've heard that Honda's manuals are easier to learn on. :dunno:

swchang
12-27-2003, 11:50 PM
Cool, thanks for all the tips, everyone. If there are more beginner's tips out there, then don't be shy about posting... :angel: For instance, any good tips about starting on an incline? Or for trying to merge in slow-moving traffic? Also, I've heard it's a real bear to drive stick in stop-and-go traffic, and we have plenty of that in the DC area. Do people tend to just stay in first and use the clutch or keep shifting from N to 1 to 2, etc?

BTW, someone told me that functionally the clutch = neutral and brake pedal = hand brake. That sound about right? He said that sometimes he'll just pop the shifter into N and put the hand brake up if he's too lazy to use his feet.

Anyway, thanks again to all!

AndDown
12-28-2003, 12:05 AM
here's a link that might be helpful:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/

click on the tech tips and select shifting technique.

As for starting on an incline, I use the handbrake to keep from rolling backwards (while clutch is depressed), slowly let out handbrake while engaging clutch into first gear. This takes a little practice, but it's better than slipping the clutch trying to stay in one spot. When merging into a slow moving traffic, I'm usually already into 2nd or 3rd and will stay with that gear unless my RPM's drop below 1000. As for leaving the clutch in neutral and using the handbrake, I don't think that's advisable while driving, but I will do that when waiting for a long red traffic light. :thumbup:

doeboy
12-28-2003, 12:59 AM
Cool, thanks for all the tips, everyone. If there are more beginner's tips out there, then don't be shy about posting... :angel: For instance, any good tips about starting on an incline? Or for trying to merge in slow-moving traffic? Also, I've heard it's a real bear to drive stick in stop-and-go traffic, and we have plenty of that in the DC area. Do people tend to just stay in first and use the clutch or keep shifting from N to 1 to 2, etc?

BTW, someone told me that functionally the clutch = neutral and brake pedal = hand brake. That sound about right? He said that sometimes he'll just pop the shifter into N and put the hand brake up if he's too lazy to use his feet.

Anyway, thanks again to all!

Ah yes... the old hand brake trick.... it's a good thing for beginners on an incline... I used to use it from time to time.... once you get good at actuating your clutch, you should be able to start on an incline without using the hand brake.

Personally I don't use the handbrake for anything unless I'm parked on an incline.

In traffic, I usually leave it in 2nd... only back to 1st when at a stop or near a stop.

swchang
12-29-2003, 01:37 AM
Thanks, everyone. This is a great board because of people like you who take the time to help those who are lost and clueless like I. :thumbup:

I'll be getting my car in a couple weeks, I think. It arrives at the Baltimore port on Tuesday, and then I guess it's off to the VPC before it arrives at my dealer. Anyone know how long I should expect to wait before it's ready to be picked up?

Anyway, I'll let y'all know how things go when I actually get my hands on this thing... :)

MMME30W
12-29-2003, 04:46 AM
Thanks, everyone. This is a great board because of people like you who take the time to help those who are lost and clueless like I. :thumbup:

I'll be getting my car in a couple weeks, I think. It arrives at the Baltimore port on Tuesday, and then I guess it's off to the VPC before it arrives at my dealer. Anyone know how long I should expect to wait before it's ready to be picked up?

Anyway, I'll let y'all know how things go when I actually get my hands on this thing... :)

Mr. Sw - Here's a link that someone posted a while back - might be helpful. The videos are pretty good introduction to shifting (although I have to admit they kind of make me want to sell my 330 and buy an E39 M5 - wow!)

Also, to your point about the board, I, too, agree with you that the folks here have been unusually helpful and supportive about the questions I had when I was shopping for a car. I notice that you have a lot of posts (>170) which bodes well for someone who hasn't gotten a bimmer yet, which is great I think. Good luck with the car sounds like you'll love it!

ws

http://www.bmwm5.com/greg/school/

ayn
12-29-2003, 08:56 AM
After you get good in just driving the manual, you would wanna learn to rev-match and heel-toe downshift, here's a good article on that:

http://www.318ti.org/notebook/shifting/index.html

LA525iT
12-29-2003, 01:43 PM
I would highly recommend learning/practicing on a Honda/Acura manual. I learned on a '96 Integra (which amazingly is still on the original clutch despite the jerking and hopping at first).

I found my Bimmer clutch much more touchy. It's much easier to master the shifting mechanics on a cake clutch like the Honda/Acura.

ruteger
12-30-2003, 05:18 AM
I would highly recommend learning/practicing on a Honda/Acura manual. I learned on a '96 Integra (which amazingly is still on the original clutch despite the jerking and hopping at first).

I found my Bimmer clutch much more touchy. It's much easier to master the shifting mechanics on a cake clutch like the Honda/Acura.This is good advice. And since no one has yet mentioned the specifics about the 'touchy' aspect of the E46 clutch (and, from what I've read, BMWs in general), I guess I'll dive in:

Before I'd gotten my E46, I'd read about the high engagement of the clutch pedal. It was not an exaggeration (sp?). Combined with the exceptionally long throw of the clutch pedal to the floor board (this is the reason for the aftermarket 'clutch-stop'), makes for an 'interesting' experience in developing a smooth clutching technique. I've driven manual transmissions for the better part of 26 years and it still took me a while to adjust to my 330Ci.

fkafka
12-30-2003, 07:04 AM
You could go buy a $500 used POS car with stickshift. Drive it every day until your new car shows up. Sell it again for $500. Even if you lose a few hundered bucks on the deal, it's heck of a cheap way to learn stick without trashing your new tranny and clutch.

car_for_mom
12-30-2003, 07:04 AM
Good for you, swchang! You go! :thumbup:

I, The Manual Transmission Princess, was not always one...I didn't learn how to drive a manual until I was 27 years old, and my mother-in-law gave us a Toyota Tercel SR5 Wagon that was a 5-speed (the spouse already knew how to drive stick).

Toyotas are definitely not the easiest manuals to learn on - I agree with the person who suggested practicing on a Honda/Acura.
I suffered learning how to drive that Tercel, even getting stuck on a hill on Farmington Avenue in West Hartford, Connecticut with a line of traffic behind me (a guy in a oil tanker took pity on me and moved the car for me).

After I stopped crying, I went to a local high school parking lot and vowed not to leave until I could easily get that Tercel out of 1st gear! About an hour later - I had it down.

The Bimmer has a beautiful, buttery shift, but I had to go through a 3-4 month adjustment period, finding the 325i's shift point, because I was used to the 96 Camry I was driving. My 16-year-old, who can sort of drive a manual, finds my BMW waaay easier to shift than the Camry (which is why he's campaigning to be able to drive my Bimmer - ain't happening! :p ). I definitely notice the difference after I've driven the Camry and then go back to my Bimmer!

You'll find yourself really enjoying driving when you get the hang of the stick! :thumbup:

The Roadstergal
12-30-2003, 07:47 AM
and try not to get in the habit of resting your hand on the shifter.

9 and 3.

And shift with your fingers (towards you) and the heel of your hand (away). The male version is to tell you to treat the shifter like your testicle. I haven't heard a good female version yet. Heck, just shift lightly and gently. :p

AB
12-30-2003, 07:52 AM
You could go buy a $500 used POS car with stickshift. Drive it every day until your new car shows up. Sell it again for $500. Even if you lose a few hundered bucks on the deal, it's heck of a cheap way to learn stick without trashing your new tranny and clutch.

What a great idea! :thumbup:

swchang
12-30-2003, 08:05 AM
Yeah, buying and selling a car is a bit of a hassle. If I had more time before my car arrives, that would have been a great idea, though. I'll keep that in mind if someone else is getting a manual.

I wanted to test drive a Honda Civic Si, but the dealership removed all the shift knobs, so by the time I got there (an hour before closing) they weren't letting people go out anymore (or so they said). The guy offered to let me drive the car without the knob, but I wasn't so sure that would've been the best of ideas...

So, regarding this "money shift"... just for piece of mind, I thought the clutch, transmission, etc. were covered under warranty for 5yr/50k. If they are, it'd be a pain in the butt and I'd probably be without car for a while, but at least it'd be a free fix?

marinakorp
12-30-2003, 08:13 AM
This is good advice. And since no one has yet mentioned the specifics about the 'touchy' aspect of the E46 clutch (and, from what I've read, BMWs in general), I guess I'll dive in:

Before I'd gotten my E46, I'd read about the high engagement of the clutch pedal. It was not an exaggeration (sp?). Combined with the exceptionally long throw of the clutch pedal to the floor board (this is the reason for the aftermarket 'clutch-stop'), makes for an 'interesting' experience in developing a smooth clutching technique. I've driven manual transmissions for the better part of 26 years and it still took me a while to adjust to my 330Ci.


I think that the CDV removal might do more than an aftermarket clutch stop

Plaz
12-30-2003, 09:48 AM
So, regarding this "money shift"... just for piece of mind, I thought the clutch, transmission, etc. were covered under warranty for 5yr/50k. If they are, it'd be a pain in the butt and I'd probably be without car for a while, but at least it'd be a free fix?

I think if you mis-shifted and blew the engine, it would not be covered under warrantee. Operator error.

nowonder
12-30-2003, 10:57 AM
I'll admit it... my BMW was my first stick. I had driven a friends car a couple times, but I was hardly up to speed.

1) Test drive an automatic first. Make sure the BMW is the car you want, and you don't want the distraction of a new transmission to take away from experiencing the car.

2) When you get the car, drive carefully to the nearest big open parking lot. Practice starting from a stop for a while. By this time you will feel very stressed out, and you will be wondering if you did the right thing.

Work through it. It's worth it. It took me about 50 miles until I wasn't petrified to take it on the road. It took me about 500 miles before I could launch on a hill without stalling. I've found that traffic isn't as big a deal as some people make it out to be, just put it in 1st, creep along at your own pace, and try to leave a good buffer ahead of you. If someone cuts in, who cares... it might take you half a second longer to get home.

oh, and avoid driving others around until you are comfortable with the clutch. You don't need smart-assed comments.

--nw

BlackChrome
12-30-2003, 12:04 PM
I would highly recommend learning/practicing on a Honda/Acura manual. I learned on a '96 Integra (which amazingly is still on the original clutch despite the jerking and hopping at first).

I found my Bimmer clutch much more touchy. It's much easier to master the shifting mechanics on a cake clutch like the Honda/Acura.
That's a good suggestion.

I find it strange that I still have to get used to my "weird" clutch (330) after I drive my brother's Integra GSR. The clutch pedal travel is light and short and the shifter is just so much shorter than my Bimmer's. It's just really easy to drive the Integra for some reason.
I think if you mis-shifted and blew the engine, it would not be covered under warrantee. Operator error.
Exactly. It's not a factory defect.

However, some guy did that to his brand new S2000 and towed it to my work. He wanted AHM (American Honda) to pay for everything. Somehow AHM settled with him by paying for the parts and he paid for the labor. Lucky guy!

Moderato
12-30-2003, 04:19 PM
Mr. Sw - Here's a link that someone posted a while back - might be helpful. The videos are pretty good introduction to shifting (although I have to admit they kind of make me want to sell my 330 and buy an E39 M5 - wow!)

Also, to your point about the board, I, too, agree with you that the folks here have been unusually helpful and supportive about the questions I had when I was shopping for a car. I notice that you have a lot of posts (>170) which bodes well for someone who hasn't gotten a bimmer yet, which is great I think. Good luck with the car sounds like you'll love it!

ws

http://www.bmwm5.com/greg/school/

Anyone else not able to download these videos? I only got one of them to work, but I want to see more of that M5 in action!!!!!! Are these videos still able to download?

Moderato
12-30-2003, 05:51 PM
Anyone else not able to download these videos? I only got one of them to work, but I want to see more of that M5 in action!!!!!! Are these videos still able to download?


I tried a little bit later and they worked. I guess more then 10 people were trying to download at the same time. These videos are good to watch even if you are an experienced manual driver. I find that no matter how long I've been manual I still make mistakes once in a while, don't worry about being perfect all of the time, just be perfect most of the time.

swchang
01-25-2004, 12:09 AM
Well, it's been a little while since I've had my car now, and I think I'm definitely much improved over that first trip home from the dealership. Even though it was a 15-20 minute drive home on local roads, my girlfriend still thought she was going to die every time I tried to accelerate, decelerate, shift gears, or just go at a constant speed (so yeah, pretty much anything I did). I looked over once while I was driving to see her gripping the handle on the door so tightly her knuckles were white... :p

Anyway, I still have questions. I can actually only think of one for now, and it involves parking. The poll I posted earlier gave pretty strong results in favor of parking with the hand brake and leaving the car in gear. (Oh, my CA told me leaving it in R actually locks the car better than leaving it in 1.) Anyway, I was just wondering if, after I turn the car off and put up the brake, whether I should use the clutch to shift from N to R (or 1), even though the engine is off.

Okay, now to share the pearls of wisdom my friend taught me tonight. I think these will be so obvious to stick veterans that it's not worth the time to read them, but for novices like me (and GalBimmer), I think it's helpful.

1) When you're accelerating and shifting up, it's a good idea to let your foot off the gas but to still rev the engine up a little before you let the clutch out.

2) When you're downshifting to accelerate (like if you're on the highway), you can downshift at any rpm (not below 2k, like I thought was necessary), but you just have to add more gas. So when you downshift, you can leave your foot on the gas, and you even should probably add a little more before you let the clutch out so that the revs match. (Wait, is this what rev-matching is?) However, since it still takes me a little while to move the actual shifter between gears, I still have to let the gas out a little or else my revs jump way up while I'm in between gears.

3) You can be braking but still downshift and let the clutch out. Learning this really helped me feel more comfortable going around corners or exiting highways.

Anyway, there were some others, but I forget them... :angel:

doeboy
01-25-2004, 02:06 AM
1) When you're accelerating and shifting up, it's a good idea to let your foot off the gas but to still rev the engine up a little before you let the clutch out.


This can lead to excessive clutch wear. If you need to add more throttle before letting the clutch out for a smooth gear change, you're letting the revs fall too much or taking too long in the shifting process.

2) When you're downshifting to accelerate (like if you're on the highway), you can downshift at any rpm (not below 2k, like I thought was necessary), but you just have to add more gas. So when you downshift, you can leave your foot on the gas, and you even should probably add a little more before you let the clutch out so that the revs match. (Wait, is this what rev-matching is?) However, since it still takes me a little while to move the actual shifter between gears, I still have to let the gas out a little or else my revs jump way up while I'm in between gears.

Not "any" rpm.... if you're at high rpms, you don't want to downshift if the next lower gear will result in an over-rev condition. That's very bad. But in street driving, chances are you won't be at an rpm that is too dangerous for this. Rev-matching is blipping the throttle so the revs will match what the driveline speed is at the next lower gear. This takes practice. Many people just slip the clutch back in once they have downshifted. Again, this will eventually lead to premature clutch wear.

3) You can be braking but still downshift and let the clutch out. Learning this really helped me feel more comfortable going around corners or exiting highways.

yes... but if you don't rev-match... again... premature clutch wear over time. For now as you are still learning, this may be fine, but when you get better, you should try to properly rev-match as much as possible to reduce clutch wear.

swchang
01-25-2004, 04:52 PM
This can lead to excessive clutch wear. If you need to add more throttle before letting the clutch out for a smooth gear change, you're letting the revs fall too much or taking too long in the shifting process.



Not "any" rpm.... if you're at high rpms, you don't want to downshift if the next lower gear will result in an over-rev condition. That's very bad. But in street driving, chances are you won't be at an rpm that is too dangerous for this. Rev-matching is blipping the throttle so the revs will match what the driveline speed is at the next lower gear. This takes practice. Many people just slip the clutch back in once they have downshifted. Again, this will eventually lead to premature clutch wear.



yes... but if you don't rev-match... again... premature clutch wear over time. For now as you are still learning, this may be fine, but when you get better, you should try to properly rev-match as much as possible to reduce clutch wear.

Maybe I shouldn't be giving "advice" yet... :rofl: