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vortexx
10-13-2010, 01:15 AM
I am currently in France doing an ED, and posted some pics of our new 550i M-Sport on the ED page...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=491174

grizzles
10-13-2010, 04:05 AM
did you get the 6vc combox?

DreamCar
10-13-2010, 06:06 AM
I heard abt this 6vc combox on this forum .... What it is anyway...i dint see it options or packages

MooseF10
10-13-2010, 06:32 AM
I heard abt this 6vc combox on this forum .... What it is anyway...i dint see it options or packages

It is a technology upgrade for September 2010 built cars and newer. It alows for additional integrated features such as displaying iPod cover art on the nav screen, additional Bluetooth features such as streaming music, and mobile office features like reading your text messages to you while driving if you are using a compatable phone. It consists of both harware and software upgrades. Also, it does a digital transfer of your music if you use the direct connect cable. In other words, connect your iPod using the Apple supplied cable instead of the Y cable that connects the audio to your car using the analog jack on your iPod.

DreamCar
10-13-2010, 06:41 AM
It is a technology upgrade for September 2010 built cars and newer. It alows for additional integrated features such as displaying iPod cover art on the nav screen, additional Bluetooth features such as streaming music, and mobile office features like reading your text messages to you while driving if you are using a compatable phone. It consists of both harware and software upgrades. Also, it does a digital transfer of your music if you use the direct connect cable. In other words, connect your iPod using the Apple supplied cable instead of the Y cable that connects the audio to your car using the analog jack on your iPod.

Thanks for the info... Is it standard on all 5 series?

MooseF10
10-13-2010, 07:13 AM
Thanks for the info... Is it standard on all 5 series?

BMW said it will be standard after September 1. Trust but verify. The 6VC option was listed on my original order sheet but now it is no longer showing up and my car was built last week. It may have dropped off because it is standard and no longer needs to be listed by itself. The first Sep production cars are just now showing up at dealers so people who have been waiting for this feature are verifying that the combox is indeed arriving on these cars.

vortexx
10-13-2010, 08:10 AM
did you get the 6vc combox?

Yes, I got the combox. Integration with the iPhone is pretty slick via Bluetooth. Very fast interface with full metadata. Playlists, cover art, etc. Bluetooth mobile phone quality is outstanding, much better than the e60.

DXK
10-13-2010, 08:41 AM
Since I should be getting the same car in December sans the M-pack, what's your driving impressions on the A-bahn and country roads in Europe?

x5 '08
10-13-2010, 10:24 AM
I've been trying to confirm if the M sport steering wheel is heated or not?

MooseF10
10-13-2010, 11:02 AM
I've been trying to confirm if the M sport steering wheel is heated or not?

I have the cold weather pkg ordered on my M Sport and it lists the steering wheel as heated.

DreamCar
10-13-2010, 12:57 PM
Question to OP, if we take ED will the price be less than the invoice price here?

vortexx
10-13-2010, 02:07 PM
Since I should be getting the same car in December sans the M-pack, what's your driving impressions on the A-bahn and country roads in Europe?

For reference, my driving impressions are based on a comparison to my 2008 550i M-Sport (which I also drove about 1000km in germany during my last ED).

1. It is definitely feels bigger. Whether this is good or bad depends on your perspective. I like it.

2. It feels secure and planted at triple digit speeds on the A-bahn. Better than the e60 in that regard.

3. In sport mode, it handles quite well on narrow twisting roads. It stays very flat in the turns - very little body roll even when cornering moderately aggressively. I have not pushed the limits of the vehicle. I would rather do that on roads that i am very familiar with. I am impressed by adaptive drive. I could do without comfort mode, and would rather have one additional mode that is even more sporty.

4. Power delivery is awesome. Fast and immediate.

5. There has been a lot of discussion about numb steering and "play" on center. That has not been my experience. It feels different than the e60. My vehicle has AIS which i am impressed with.

6. My car is equipped with Michelins. The cars I had driven at the dealership all had Goodyear Excellence. I cannot make a direct comparison, but on one particular motorway in France, the tires transmitted more road noise than i would have expected even though the road had no visible roughness. Overall the care is quiet, impressively so at high speeds.

Hope this helps.

solstice
10-13-2010, 02:25 PM
"I could do without comfort mode, and would rather have one additional mode that is even more sporty."
That makes three of us, you, me and pharding. tadtaggert believes it can only be addressed with new HW in form of stiffer springs and for this one issue I actually agree with him.

DXK
10-13-2010, 02:28 PM
Thanks, Vortexx. It certainly whetted my appetite.

tadtaggert
10-13-2010, 04:21 PM
3. In sport mode, it handles quite well on narrow twisting roads. It stays very flat in the turns - very little body roll even when cornering moderately aggressively. I have not pushed the limits of the vehicle. I would rather do that on roads that i am very familiar with. I am impressed by adaptive drive. I could do without comfort mode, and would rather have one additional mode that is even more sporty.

When you get the car on roads you know and spend a bit of time in it you'll learn the secret that it seems not many are getting: The F10 with DHP is always on it's sportiest setting!

The D in DHP is for dynamic, settings that change given the driving situation. Push the car in normal or comfort and things will tighten up. You need to think of DHP as setting the level of comfort you will 'allow' the car to exhibit. It changes reactions when driving, you really need to learn the car to push it, or appreciate it.

I'd be interested in what you mean by 'more sporty', seems to be different things to different people. RD springs stiffen the suspension a bit, if that's what you mean give them a try, they'll change comfort as much as they change sport.

Glad to hear you like the steering, it's my understanding that there are years of test and simulation work behind it and that it is optimal for performance. It is quite different than some past BMW's, but that's as much the SLA up front that most aren't used to either.

Congrats on the car!

jimefam
10-13-2010, 04:47 PM
"I could do without comfort mode, and would rather have one additional mode that is even more sporty."
That makes three of us, you, me and pharding. tadtaggert believes it can only be addressed with new HW in form of stiffer springs and for this one issue I actually agree with him.

Count me in as well!!

vortexx
10-14-2010, 03:54 PM
When you get the car on roads you know and spend a bit of time in it you'll learn the secret that it seems not many are getting: The F10 with DHP is always on it's sportiest setting!

The D in DHP is for dynamic, settings that change given the driving situation. Push the car in normal or comfort and things will tighten up. You need to think of DHP as setting the level of comfort you will 'allow' the car to exhibit. It changes reactions when driving, you really need to learn the car to push it, or appreciate it.

I'd be interested in what you mean by 'more sporty', seems to be different things to different people. RD springs stiffen the suspension a bit, if that's what you mean give them a try, they'll change comfort as much as they change sport.

Glad to hear you like the steering, it's my understanding that there are years of test and simulation work behind it and that it is optimal for performance. It is quite different than some past BMW's, but that's as much the SLA up front that most aren't used to either.

Congrats on the car!

tadtaggert:

I agree on your description of DHP, but I think of it like this: There is a range of damping provided by the electronic valving on the shocks, from highly damped to less damped (firm to soft). If we abritrarily assign a value to the level of firmness from 1-10 just for the purpose of discussion, then when DHP is in the comfort mode, the shocks can exhibit the full range of firmness from 1-10 instantaneously, depending on the input from the various sensors. When in the normal mode, the range is reduced to say 3-10, and in the sport mode the range is maybe 5-10, depending on the instantaneous conditions. So, no matter which mode you are in, based on instantaneous driving conditions, the shocks can firm up to the most aggressive setting, but then back off to the "steady state" condition that is determined by the DHP setting at the time. The ARS, active roll stabilization works in concert in a similar manner. lSo, theoretically, one could argue that you could just leave the car in the comfort mode and it would handle just as well as sport mode, due to the dynamic nature of the suspension. However, I have found that to not exactly be the case in actual driving conditions. I believe there are a couple of reasons:

1. Although I have been using the word "instantaneous", it really isn't. It is fast but not instantaneous.

2. The constantly changing nature of the suspension fools your instincts into thinking that the car is not prepared to handle the situation. It feels slightly less predictable, particularly in the comfort mode, I think due to the changing state of the suspension.

3. On very mildly undulating terrain, the G forces are insufficient to cause the various sensors to firm up the suspension so it sort of wallows along a bit. For someone who is used to a soft suspension this may feel fine, or even preferable, but for my taste it is disconcerting even though it doesnt adversely affect the performance, since the suspension firms up when called upon.

4. Suspension tuning is a delicate balance of springs and dampers. Softer springs require less damping and stiffer springs require more damping for a given suspension setup to obtain a perfectly damped system. The DHP can adjust the damping but not the spring rate. This means that the system really only solves part of the problem. So, I suspect that the suspension is tuned to one of the settings, and it is a compromise on the others. In the Sport and Sport+ mode, it is possible that the ideal setup would include stiffer springs, and in the comfort mode and ideal setup might use softer spring rates.

Item #4, is what concerns me about swapping springs without a software change to the DHP. It may get stiffer, but it may not get better, and it may actually get worse in certain modes. Hopefully one of the aftermarket tuners will offer a package that includes slightly stiffer (and shorter) springs, along with a software mod that changes the damping profile of shocks and the way the ARS is programmed.

solstice
10-14-2010, 04:36 PM
I agree vortexx, to the extent that I'm not even considering after market springs. If bmw comes up with a package that is fully tuned to the stiffer springs and retains full warranty I'm in otherwise I pass.

tadtaggert
10-14-2010, 05:13 PM
---large Snip---

1. Although I have been using the word "instantaneous", it really isn't. It is fast but not instantaneous.

2. The constantly changing nature of the suspension fools your instincts into thinking that the car is not prepared to handle the situation. It feels slightly less predictable, particularly in the comfort mode, I think due to the changing state of the suspension.

3. On very mildly undulating terrain, the G forces are insufficient to cause the various sensors to firm up the suspension so it sort of wallows along a bit. For someone who is used to a soft suspension this may feel fine, or even preferable, but for my taste it is disconcerting even though it doesnt adversely affect the performance, since the suspension firms up when called upon.

4. Suspension tuning is a delicate balance of springs and dampers. Softer springs require less damping and stiffer springs require more damping for a given suspension setup to obtain a perfectly damped system. The DHP can adjust the damping but not the spring rate. This means that the system really only solves part of the problem. So, I suspect that the suspension is tuned to one of the settings, and it is a compromise on the others. In the Sport and Sport+ mode, it is possible that the ideal setup would include stiffer springs, and in the comfort mode and ideal setup might use softer spring rates.

Item #4, is what concerns me about swapping springs without a software change to the DHP. It may get stiffer, but it may not get better, and it may actually get worse in certain modes. Hopefully one of the aftermarket tuners will offer a package that includes slightly stiffer (and shorter) springs, along with a software mod that changes the damping profile of shocks and the way the ARS is programmed.

1: It's much faster than what you think. The issue is that if you come into a turn on Normal and Comfort the car will already be in a position advanced from where it would be if on Sport as it must 'sense' the change in dynamics. The switch is fast, determining when to switch is what takes the time.

2: Bingo! This is the one that has reviews all over the place. You simply can't learn and understand the car if a few day. Enjoy the first few thousand miles, you have a wonderful experience coming up.

3: Maybe, or maybe it's getting to know the car. I'll let you answer this one again after a few thousand miles.

4: Couple of points here: First, there are a number of interviews with BMW engineers out there that flat out state that the springs are soft, by choice, to favor more comfort. In the same breath they'll tell you that the F10 was designed with tuners in mind, from the stiff chassis being able to accommodate a wider range of power, suspension, etc., ..... and more.

Next, people are giving no or not enough credit to BMW/DHP. It's a dynamic system that measures driving conditions independent of your setup. Now while some setups (wheel size, tires, etc.) may work better than others, it's designed to accommodate differences, including springs.

There aren't a lot of springs out there now for the F10. I've tried the RD an H&R, both are better, not as better as I'd like but definitely better. Maybe better springs will come out, I wouldn't expect anything from BMW until some time after the M5 is out. Dinan has said they'll do a software suspension (dampers) upgrade, I would expect it after intercooler/exhaust mods are out.

I note that you say 'shorter', lot's of threads on whether to drop or not, and depends on what you want: looks or performance. If you're looking for 100% performance you may not be able to get the drop you want for a specific look because of DHP. There are some very nice packages for the F10 coming out, most seem to only be able to drop 30mm or so because of performance reasons.

I fully expect it to about this time next year, after the M5 is out, until there's really good choices for the F10, but the RD springs in particular aren't that expensive and really do make a positive change.

vortexx
10-16-2010, 02:14 PM
There aren't a lot of springs out there now for the F10. I've tried the RD an H&R, both are better, not as better as I'd like but definitely better. Maybe better springs will come out, I wouldn't expect anything from BMW until some time after the M5 is out. Dinan has said they'll do a software suspension (dampers) upgrade, I would expect it after intercooler/exhaust mods are out.

I note that you say 'shorter', lot's of threads on whether to drop or not, and depends on what you want: looks or performance. If you're looking for 100% performance you may not be able to get the drop you want for a specific look because of DHP. There are some very nice packages for the F10 coming out, most seem to only be able to drop 30mm or so because of performance reasons.

I fully expect it to about this time next year, after the M5 is out, until there's really good choices for the F10, but the RD springs in particular aren't that expensive and really do make a positive change.


Do you have the RD springs on your car now? If so could you post a picture? I am looking for a very mild drop (for aesthetic purposes) and just a tad stiffer, possibly progressive so that the first small portion of the travel maintains the same spring rate.

Thanks!

pharding
10-16-2010, 05:42 PM
..... First, there are a number of interviews with BMW engineers out there that flat out state that the springs are soft, by choice, to favor more comfort. In the same breath they'll tell you that the F10 was designed with tuners in mind, from the stiff chassis being able to accommodate a wider range of power, suspension, etc., ..... and more.
BMW has lost its way with the shift toward Comfort on the F10. Comfort Suspension Setting with the DHP on the F10 is the most useless setting in the history of BMW. Is it is clear that the intent with the suspension has been to cater to Lexus crowd and the BMW Motor Sport Enthusiast. Unfortunately with this approach the F10 suspension can do everything, but nothing particularly well. The whole idea of the idea of the 5er as a sports sedan has been compromised and diminished.

pharding
10-16-2010, 05:50 PM
Do you have the RD springs on your car now? If so could you post a picture? I am looking for a very mild drop (for aesthetic purposes) and just a tad stiffer, possibly progressive so that the first small portion of the travel maintains the same spring rate.

Thanks!
http://www.jlevistreetwerks.com/5-Series-F07,-F10,-%26-F11-%282009%2B%29-Suspension/c400_440_442/p11931/RD-Sport-Springs-for-the-F10-5-Series/product_info.html