PDA

View Full Version : Help! F10 535i vs 550i


wjgolding
10-14-2010, 02:55 PM
I'm a BMW n00b that's about to take ED of a 535i next month. However, I'm starting to get the feeling that I'd wish I'd taken the plunge for the 550i. I remember the feeling on the 550i test drive, of getting pushed back into my seat on the highway as the 550i took off. I'm worried that I'll miss that on my 535i.

Can anyone quiet the worries of a poor n00b? :eeps:

AzNMpower32
10-14-2010, 03:10 PM
Don't be afraid of high revs. Just push the sucker to the redline, row that 6-speed manual gearbox. The 535i has more than enough power and plenty to get you out of harms way, and perhaps into trouble with the law. Although BMWs might not seem to have the brutish-power right off the line, power delivery is far more linear than in many other cars so if you keep your foot down, the speedometer will creep up faster than expected.

TJPark01
10-14-2010, 03:12 PM
Beaten to death-550xi-535xi (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=489889)
Decision Time -- 550 vs 535 -- Comments Welcome - (http://f10.5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=403709)

MooseF10
10-14-2010, 04:15 PM
In addition to the engine consideration, think about how you may option the car. The 535 has a wonderful engine that gives you the opportunity to get great performance out of the F10 without going to the 8 cyl TT engine. In my case, the price between the two closed rapidly once I began optioning out the car. I am giveing up a couple MPG in fuel consumption by going to the 550 which I am OK with. I got within about $3,500 once I loaded up a 535 as compared to the 550. If I was not going to add all those options, I would have gone with the 535. Recently, though, Dinan has released their software modification that dials up the boost of the turbos. For $3K more, you can get your 550i up to 495 HP and 573 Torque. So, it all depends on how often you will tap into that extra performance and whether it is worth 3-6K to get that. Good luck. Both are great!

Jack Stefano
10-14-2010, 06:09 PM
Much less of an issue with the F10 as opposed to the E60. I can't really imagine spending the money on an F10 550. It's so dumbed down (albeit much more luxe and smooth than my old E60 550) that it's lost its edge.

tadtaggert
10-14-2010, 07:35 PM
Much less of an issue with the F10 as opposed to the E60. I can't really imagine spending the money on an F10 550. It's so dumbed down (albeit much more luxe and smooth than my old E60 550) that it's lost its edge.

Trying to figure out if you're serious or simply trolling....

While you may have an argument of 535i's E60 to F10, there is absolutely none with the 550i, not even close.

solstice
10-14-2010, 07:45 PM
Trying to figure out if you're serious or simply trolling....

While you may have an argument of 535i's E60 to F10, there is absolutely none with the 550i, not even close.

Really? I can think of six arguments right off the bat: weight, weight distribution, mpg, depreciation, initial cost, tire wear. Acceleration, no, no contest but how often will you use that extra power? Don't sweat the 535 is plenty fast but if you are an acceleration junky and it's your prime concern you made the wrong choice, sorry. Though I suspect the dumb down relates to the F10 being a less sporty much softer ride and that the V8 is overkill in such a chassi.

wjgolding
10-14-2010, 07:53 PM
Really? I can think of six arguments right off the bat: weight, weight distribution, mpg, depreciation, initial cost, tire wear. Acceleration, no, no contest but how often will you use that extra power? Don't sweat the 535 is plenty fast but if you are an acceleration junky and it's your prime concern you made the wrong choice, sorry. Though I suspect the dumb down relates to the F10 being a less sporty much softer ride and that the V8 is overkill in such a chassi.

Not an acceleration junkie by any stretch. I am into BMW for the quality of the ride and the engineering excellence. I'd rather have a more luxurious ride than the extra power. I made the choice to add options to the 535 instead.

solstice
10-14-2010, 08:25 PM
Not an acceleration junkie by any stretch. I am into BMW for the quality of the ride and the engineering excellence. I'd rather have a more luxurious ride than the extra power. I made the choice to add options to the 535 instead.

With those criteria's you made a good choice imo and I think you are going to love it.

DXK
10-14-2010, 08:35 PM
Really? I can think of six arguments right off the bat: weight, weight distribution, mpg, depreciation, initial cost, tire wear. Acceleration, no, no contest but how often will you use that extra power? Don't sweat the 535 is plenty fast but if you are an acceleration junky and it's your prime concern you made the wrong choice, sorry. Though I suspect the dumb down relates to the F10 being a less sporty much softer ride and that the V8 is overkill in such a chassi.

I think he was talking about e60 550 vs. f10 550, so most of the above is N/A, no?

tadtaggert
10-14-2010, 08:43 PM
Really? I can think of six arguments right off the bat: weight, weight distribution, mpg, depreciation, initial cost, tire wear. Acceleration, no, no contest but how often will you use that extra power? Don't sweat the 535 is plenty fast but if you are an acceleration junky and it's your prime concern you made the wrong choice, sorry. Though I suspect the dumb down relates to the F10 being a less sporty much softer ride and that the V8 is overkill in such a chassi.

Weight, it's heavier, so?

Weight distribution, close, so?

MPG, F10 550i is better than E60.

Depreciation, wider market for F10 550i, E60 limited to smaller market, we'll see but significant odds that the F10 will win this.

Initial Cost, everything gets more expensive, what does this have to do with performance?

Tire wear, you're telling me that the E60 550i has less tire wear than the F10? Care to explain?

Acceleration, E60 550i is much much slower.

Let's get to track times E60 to F10 550i, you lose.

Softer ride? hahahaha

V8, hmm, by your logic there is no market for the M5 then?

Solstice I feel for you, buying a car that you didn't research and just don't like, one that in your own words doesn't measure up to the E60 535i. I'm well aware that you like to sit there waiting for a post and pounce on it, but I was talking 550i E60 to F10, and your arguments don't hold water.

solstice
10-14-2010, 08:56 PM
tadtgrrrr, I was refering to the F10 535 vs the F10 550 like the OP asked for. I miss read your statement as for the E60 there was a case that the 535 was about as fast as the 550 but that's not the case with the F10. I see that you meant that the F10 550 crushes the E60 550 which is true. And you can spare me your analyses of my intentions and your know it all tone since you are wrong, again.

solstice
10-14-2010, 09:31 PM
I just got to respond to this one:

"V8, hmm, by your logic there is no market for the M5 then?"

I would be shocked if the M5 has the exact same chassi components as the 550i. That you of all would think that is quite surprising.

tadtaggert
10-14-2010, 09:44 PM
I just got to respond to this one:

"V8, hmm, by your logic there is no market for the M5 then?"

I would be shocked if the M5 has the exact same chassi components as the 550i. That you of all would think that is quite surprising.

You said chassis, not components.

The F10 chassis is what makes the F10 and it allows the power, the range of components, etc. The F10 chassis screams for power, it's the one reverberating answer to the weight issue, to make any argument that there is in any way, shape or form too much power for the F10 chassis is just wrong.

solstice
10-14-2010, 09:58 PM
You said chassis, not components.

The F10 chassis is what makes the F10 and it allows the power, the range of components, etc. The F10 chassis screams for power, it's the one reverberating answer to the weight issue, to make any argument that there is in any way, shape or form too much power for the F10 chassis is just wrong.

If that's your definition then I meant chassi including chassi components. For me it's the same. When we for example are saying that the sports mode can be configured to tigthen just the chassi or the include the drive train as well we don't mean tighten the steel but the components. Make sense?

tadtaggert
10-14-2010, 10:06 PM
the V8 is overkill in such a chassi.

I LOL again!

solstice
10-14-2010, 10:08 PM
Just to be clear so that even you understand what I mean, I'll rephrase the comment with your definition. I suspect that dumbed down relates to the F10 being a less sporty softer ride and that the V8 is overkill for it's chassi components. Happy?

tadtaggert
10-14-2010, 10:44 PM
Just to be clear so that even you understand what I mean, I'll rephrase the comment with your definition. I suspect that dumbed down relates to the F10 being a less sporty softer ride and that the V8 is overkill for it's chassi components. Happy?

Not at all, you're stretching hard.

The F10 is a more comfortable ride and offers a choice to what extent that comfort encompasses. In sport or sport+ the F10 550i is every bit as capable, more capable, than the E60 550i. The V8 just begins to touch the capabilities of the chassis, the components are well matched for the purposes, a range of driving styles: comfort over normal day to day driving or more sport oriented for the fun that BMW drivers often seek with a level or performance that doesn't leave you wanting.

I know what you mean, what you're trying to say: you are wrong.

solstice
10-14-2010, 11:29 PM
"you are wrong"
And you come across as a shill. I'm not saying you are but you certainy come across as one imo.

Jack Stefano
10-15-2010, 02:13 AM
Though I suspect the dumb down relates to the F10 being a less sporty much softer ride and that the V8 is overkill in such a chassi.

Bingo.

wjgolding
10-15-2010, 05:13 AM
Guys, thanks for the comments. After reading this thread, I feel much better about my decision. Now I just need the car!

MooseF10
10-15-2010, 05:38 AM
I happen to be a bit of an acceleration junkie so I went with the TT V8. My 2000 M5 was state of the art in performance sedans at the time and it stickered around 72K. For the same sticker price, move ten years later and you get a 550i that simply blows away what my 2000 M5 could do. I now enjoy an auto trans and comfortable ride on my daily commutes but I have no less desire now than I did 10 years ago for a performance sedan. I still have several sports cars with manual transmissions and firm rides but I don't enjoy driving them every day. I am pretty much the target audiance for the V8. I love the 535 but the 550 was better suited for me and was worth the extra few thou. It all depends on what is important to you, how and where you drive, and at what stage in life you are. I think we can all agree that we are happy that BMW gives us the choice.

laser
10-15-2010, 05:44 AM
Well said!

AntDX316
10-15-2010, 07:20 AM
I don't think you will get the feeling of serious push back when accelerating on the highway. Since the 535i is turbo, you can get an ECU tune to make the boost higher so you can do 400hp or more. If you do that, you should change the oil sooner and you could have transmission problems in the future. Once you do that, it will be as fast as the 550i or even faster.

AntDX316
10-15-2010, 07:24 AM
I happen to be a bit of an acceleration junkie so I went with the TT V8. My 2000 M5 was state of the art in performance sedans at the time and it stickered around 72K. For the same sticker price, move ten years later and you get a 550i that simply blows away what my 2000 M5 could do. I now enjoy an auto trans and comfortable ride on my daily commutes but I have no less desire now than I did 10 years ago for a performance sedan. I still have several sports cars with manual transmissions and firm rides but I don't enjoy driving them every day. I am pretty much the target audiance for the V8. I love the 535 but the 550 was better suited for me and was worth the extra few thou. It all depends on what is important to you, how and where you drive, and at what stage in life you are. I think we can all agree that we are happy that BMW gives us the choice.

Honestly, you can just buy used. A 2008 M5 is much cheaper than a new 2011 528i. A 2008 M5 is cheaper than a new 2011 535i. A 2009 M5 is cheaper than a new 2011 550i. The difference between a 2009 M5 and a 2011 550i is the 2009 M5 has 100 more horsepower but a less comfortable ride and eats way more gas.

I don't think people who can afford to buy a new BMW consider used.

tadtaggert
10-15-2010, 08:11 AM
"you are wrong"
And you come across as a shill. I'm not saying you are but you certainy come across as one imo.

Have you seen the Audi commercial, the one that at the end they pan to the BMW driver who says something like, 'I'm told it captures the essence of my soul.'?

Quit drinking the kool-aid, stop living in the past.

The F10 is a bit bigger, a bit heavier, and offers infinitely more comfort and luxury. In the F10 550i it also offers in increase in performance to push the 5 series above where it's been before. The F10 chassis will enable the new M5, get ready to be blown away.

The 535i offers the same comfort and luxury, but only similar performance to the past. The 528i, about the same. I'll wait and see what diesels we get in the US, but those are the choices we get with respect to performance.

Your cult is small and dying.

jimefam
10-15-2010, 09:38 AM
I have to agree with solstice in that with it's stock setup the 550i's V8 overwhelms the car unless were talking strictly straight line acceleration. The number 1 thing that has to be replaced are the tires, you can see in the few tests that have come out the results of the "handling" tests are mediocre at best. This will probably be vastly improved by just putting on proper performance tires. Maybe your right tadtaggert and once some changes are made to the softer components there could be a sports sedan hiding underneath all the comfort. But I think it's clear that in every important decision between performance and comfort it was comfort winning out everytime.

carnuts3
10-15-2010, 09:38 AM
Have you seen the Audi commercial, the one that at the end they pan to the BMW driver who says something like, 'I'm told it captures the essence of my soul.'?

Quit drinking the kool-aid, stop living in the past.

The F10 is a bit bigger, a bit heavier, and offers infinitely more comfort and luxury. In the F10 550i it also offers in increase in performance to push the 5 series above where it's been before. The F10 chassis will enable the new M5, get ready to be blown away.

The 535i offers the same comfort and luxury, but only similar performance to the past. The 528i, about the same. I'll wait and see what diesels we get in the US, but those are the choices we get with respect to performance.

Your cult is small and dying.

The forum is taking apart the F10 and then putting it back together like there was no tomorrow. The F10 without argument is a fine auto. Whether you like it enough to buy it is purely personal and subjective. For me, I have a problem with the F10 being bigger and heavier than its predecessor - especially the bigger part. That's just me. If the F10 had the same "size" feel as the E60, I would have ordered the 550i. I'm not interested in a smaller version of the 7 series no matter how good it is. No one can dispute that the F10is a superior engineered car, except maybe for the still languishing concerns about the HPFP. I hope this issue goes away soon.

bm323
10-15-2010, 09:57 AM
The forum is taking apart the F10 and then putting it back together like there was no tomorrow. The F10 without argument is a fine auto. Whether you like it enough to buy it is purely personal and subjective. For me, I have a problem with the F10 being bigger and heavier than its predecessor - especially the bigger part. That's just me. If the F10 had the same "size" feel as the E60, I would have ordered the 550i. I'm not interested in a smaller version of the 7 series no matter how good it is. No one can dispute that the F10is a superior engineered car, except maybe for the still languishing concerns about the HPFP. I hope this issue goes away soon.

See below, the F10 550i is bigger but beats your E60 550i in performance. Check out the F30 in due course since your E60 is only 2 years old.

tadtaggert
10-15-2010, 10:09 AM
But I think it's clear that in every important decision between performance and comfort it was comfort winning out everytime.

This is where we disagree.

I think the most important decisions were the chassis and the suspension, and here BMW has given us the foundation for as much performance as can be had. The F10 chassis is stiff, stiffer than pretty much anything that they've done before. It allows the SLA to be used up front. What it will also allow is almost endless.

Now when you come to presentation BMW has pushed both the comfort and luxury aspects, and some of the decisions are biased in this direction. Personally I like the comfort and luxury, but don't mistake that for a complete ignorance of performance or handling.

I agree with tires being a consideration, HighlandPete on another forum makes a good argument for wheel size having an impact, but the foundation is there, and the chassis/suspension will swallow up whatever power you put to it. It's different, drives different, reacts different. For me, it's better in every way.

jimefam
10-15-2010, 10:25 AM
This is where we disagree.

I think the most important decisions were the chassis and the suspension, and here BMW has given us the foundation for as much performance as can be had. The F10 chassis is stiff, stiffer than pretty much anything that they've done before. It allows the SLA to be used up front. What it will also allow is almost endless.

Now when you come to presentation BMW has pushed both the comfort and luxury aspects, and some of the decisions are biased in this direction. Personally I like the comfort and luxury, but don't mistake that for a complete ignorance of performance or handling.

I agree with tires being a consideration, HighlandPete on another forum makes a good argument for wheel size having an impact, but the foundation is there, and the chassis/suspension will swallow up whatever power you put to it. It's different, drives different, reacts different. For me, it's better in every way.

It's funny how people see the same thing so differently. Ok the chassis is stiffer but the suspension? I literally lol when I read that! The suspension is absolutely geared tirades comfort. To get the best out of the car you need to change the springs and if some tuner makes a SW upgrade to the DH's programs then maybe we will have a car fully utilized. Where BMWNA really dropped the ball was not offering the msport suspension here in the US.

bm323
10-15-2010, 10:45 AM
Much less of an issue with the F10 as opposed to the E60. I can't really imagine spending the money on an F10 550. It's so dumbed down (albeit much more luxe and smooth than my old E60 550) that it's lost its edge.

Way off the mark, Jack.

I don't have a detailed test for the F10 550i sedan, but check out the readings for the F11 550i GT. Further, the F11 550i GT are on inferior tires. One can reasonably conclude that the F10 550i sedan although has more luxe, crushes the E60 550i in performance (with sport package, less luxe and inferior performance).

The F10 550i readings

Tire brand Goodyear
Tire model Excellence
Tire type Asymmetrical summer run-flat
Tire size, front 245/40R20 99Y
Tire size, rear 275/35R20 102Y
Wheel size 20-by-8.5 inches front -- 20-by-10 inches rear
Wheel material Aluminum alloy
Brakes, front 14.7-inch ventilated disc with single-piston sliding caliper
Brakes, rear 14.6-inch ventilated disc with single-piston sliding caliper
Track Test Results
0-45 mph (sec.) 3.5 (3.5 traction control on)
0-60 mph (sec.) 5.3 (5.4 traction control on)
0-75 mph (sec.) 7.4 (7.4 traction control on)
1/4-mile (sec. @ mph) 13.4 @ 105.7 (13.4 @ 105.5 traction control on)
0-60 with 1 foot of rollout (sec.) 5.1 (5.1 traction control on)
Braking, 30-0 mph (ft.) 28
60-0 mph (ft.) 112
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 65.0 (62.2 stability control on)
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.85 (0.83 stability control on)

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/5-series/2010/2010-bmw-550i-gran-turismo-full-test-and-video.html
-------------------------------
Now see the readings for the 2009 E60 550i, with sport package and better tires on the sedan.

Tire brand Continental
Tire model Sport Contact 2
Tire type Summer Performance
Tire size, front 245/35R19 93Y
Tire size, rear 275/30R19 96Y

Track Test Results
0-45 mph (sec.) 3.7 (3.9 with traction control on)
0-60 mph (sec.) 5.5 (5.6 with traction control on)
0-75 mph (sec.) 8.0 (8.1 with traction control on)
1/4-mile (sec. @ mph) 13.7 @ 102.7 (13.8 @ 102.6 with traction control on)
0-60 with 1 foot of rollout (sec.) 5.2 (5.3 with traction control on)
Braking, 30-0 mph (ft.) 28
60-0 mph (ft.) 111
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 64.9 (63.0 with stability control on)
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter (lateral g) 0.87 (0.86 with stability control on)

http://www.insideline.com/bmw/5-series/2009/2010-mercedes-benz-e550-sport-vs-2009-bmw-550i-sport-vs-2010-jaguar-xf-premium.html

bm323
10-15-2010, 10:47 AM
the f10 is a bit bigger, a bit heavier, and offers infinitely more comfort and luxury. In the f10 550i it also offers in increase in performance to push the 5 series above where it's been before. The f10 chassis will enable the new m5, get ready to be blown away.

The 535i offers the same comfort and luxury, but only similar performance to the past. The 528i, about the same. I'll wait and see what diesels we get in the us, but those are the choices we get with respect to performance.


++1

tadtaggert
10-15-2010, 11:11 AM
It's funny how people see the same thing so differently. Ok the chassis is stiffer but the suspension? I literally lol when I read that! The suspension is absolutely geared tirades comfort. To get the best out of the car you need to change the springs and if some tuner makes a SW upgrade to the DH's programs then maybe we will have a car fully utilized. Where BMWNA really dropped the ball was not offering the msport suspension here in the US.

Have you driven the M-Sport suspension on an F10 550i?

Suspension geometry, off-camber tires, .... you really don't have a clue do you? I see people accepting swapping out tires, it's common, there are so many kinds, and the price? A lot higher than swapping out some springs, taking that geometry into a range that you want. Hmm, that's something different, must be wrong, right? Stock suspension is very good, especially with DHP, and much better than the M-sport suspension.

Fully utilized? lol, do you keep your driving gloves in your helmet in the back seat? Come on people, where is the reality in all this?

jimefam
10-15-2010, 12:34 PM
Have you driven the M-Sport suspension on an F10 550i?

Suspension geometry, off-camber tires, .... you really don't have a clue do you? I see people accepting swapping out tires, it's common, there are so many kinds, and the price? A lot higher than swapping out some springs, taking that geometry into a range that you want. Hmm, that's something different, must be wrong, right? Stock suspension is very good, especially with DHP, and much better than the M-sport suspension.

Fully utilized? lol, do you keep your driving gloves in your helmet in the back seat? Come on people, where is the reality in all this?

No I haven't driven the M suspension but I think it's safe to assume the M version is gonna be more geared toward sport than stock no? In the same manner that although nothing has officially been released about the M5 but I assume it will be much better in performance. As for reality don't be rediculous none of what is being discussed here has anything to do with reality. In reality there is nothing anyone can NEED from this car that they can't get from a camry. No one realistically needs 400hp. These cars are toys, I am getting one because I can. I want the sportiest sedan I can get not because I need it everyday but because that's what I like. And no I won't carry the helmet and gloves in the back seat they will be securely stowed in the trunk because although I won't use them very often I will most certainly use them in this car.