Now It Can Be Told

[RaysMD]

wow, this was a long thread. Just finished reading it. I guess "Salvage" BMW is regretting their intial actions. Someone should print this whole page out and mail to "Salvage BMW." Maybe the reason they're not responding to this thread is that they don't have internet in the 21st century, yet.


Stuka,

I'm glad you got the Porsche. Must have been a hell of a deal for the same payments as the M3.


-Rays

[scottn2retro]

wow, this was a long thread. Just finished reading it. I guess "Salvage" BMW is regretting their intial actions. Someone should print this whole page out and mail to "Salvage BMW." Maybe the reason they're not responding to this thread is that they don't have internet in the 21st century, yet.


Actually, early on in the thread, Jon detected some guests from Salvage BMW checking the thread out.

And I agree with the people that feel not all BMW dealerships are run by ruthless bandits.

I'd like to think that the dealers represented here at the 'fest are run by good, honorable people. I know I've talked to the people at Irvine BMW about this incident and they were appalled.

[ChrisTO]

WOW WEE! what a thread! makes my 'bad service' experiences with the local BMW dealerships seem petty. it certainly has me rethinking if i ever want to purchase another BMW if this is the support i can expect from BMW HQ if a dealership screws up.

hopefully collective we all talk with our wallets and walk. brutal way for a company to learn how to treat customers right. i guess this is similar to what the big 3 automakers are finally experiencing after years of poor quality.

[e30ty]

This story needs to be brought to the media.

[berford]

This story needs to be brought to the media.

It seems to me that with 45,000+ views on this thread and plenty of discussion on other sites/threads, they've gotten a fair share of bad publicity already.

[jw]

Last I checked they were the worst rated dealer of all dealerships on dealerrater.com. (not that anyone really pays attention to that site)

[berford]

Last I checked they were the worst rated dealer of all dealerships on dealerrater.com. (not that anyone really pays attention to that site)

That's actually pretty telling, isn't it. BTW, I used to look at it, but none of the dealers within striking distance of me were rated at the time. Thanks for reminding me, I'll have to look again. :thumbup:

[Stuka]

Looks like it's on Google now. :thumbup:

http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:xyy-7wI_wXcJ:www.motoyen.com/+m3+savage+bmw&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

And BTW, no response from BMWNA since my last post about having someone who knows the whole saga to call me back. :tsk:

[doeboy]

Looks like it's on Google now. :thumbup:

http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:xyy-7wI_wXcJ:www.motoyen.com/+m3+savage+bmw&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

And BTW, no response from BMWNA since my last post about having someone who knows the whole saga to call me back. :tsk:

:yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

Gee... sucks to be them now...

[SergioK]

:yikes: :yikes: :yikes:

Gee... sucks to be them now...

I hope they really suffer some sales losses from this incident! Bastiges! :mad:

[SergioK]

Looks like it's on Google now. :thumbup:

http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:xyy-7wI_wXcJ:www.motoyen.com/+m3+savage+bmw&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

And BTW, no response from BMWNA since my last post about having someone who knows the whole saga to call me back. :tsk:

C'mon, did you really think that someone from BMW NA would bother to call you?

What was that comment about pigs flying past your office window?? :rofl: :rofl:

[doeboy]

I hope they really suffer some sales losses from this incident! Bastiges! :mad:

Probably not only that but Service losses too...

[HW]

appears as the 6th link on a google search. how does one get to be the 1st? :eeps:

[doeboy]

appears as the 6th link on a google search. how does one get to be the 1st? :eeps:

I just searched it, and a link to dealer rater's page on savage came up 3rd... and other boards that mention this came up 5th, 9th and 10th... :eeps:

Ironically, 4th link was someone shouting praise for them. :dunno:

[HW]

Ironically, 4th link was someone shouting praise for them. :dunno:

yeah but see the top response to that praise :yikes: :rofl:

"WORST SERVICE IN THE WORLD" :rofl:

[Stuka]

yeah but see the top response to that praise :yikes: :rofl:

"WORST SERVICE IN THE WORLD" :rofl:

Well, boys and girls, I just emailed this link to the Rancho Chamber of Commerce where Savage BMW is a member of.

I also purchased the folowinging domain names:

Savagebmwsucks.com
Savagebmesucks.org
Savagebmwsucks.net

I am thinking of starting a webpage with this story of my car, and the fate that it suffered while under Savage BMW.

If anyone would like to contribute web space, technical assistance, etc, please let me know.

Thanks. :angel:

Andy

[Parump]

Stuka,

I am inferring that BMWNA failed to provide a reasonable remedy. I am truly sorry!

[Stuka]

Stuka,

I am inferring that BMWNA failed to provide a reasonable remedy. I am truly sorry!

After a printed copy of this post being hand delivered to the M brand manager at the LA Auto Show and no one of any knowledge of my case calling me, not to mention nothing from Savage to this day, I would say that BMWNA failed miserably. :thumbdwn:

So at this point, I think that the best thing to do is to start a website and hopefully reach more potential and current BMW buyers, so that hopefully no one will have to go through what I had gone through with Savage BMW. :banghead:

[doeboy]

Well, boys and girls, I just emailed this link to the Rancho Chamber of Commerce where Savage BMW is a member of.

I also purchased the folowinging domain names:

Savagebmwsucks.com
Savagebmesucks.org
Savagebmwsucks.net

I am thinking of starting a webpage with this story of my car, and the fate that it suffered while under Savage BMW.


What about .edu? :p You are non-profit and you are educating the public... :eeps: :angel:

[Patrick330i]

I got in on this thread late, but this story reminded me of a bad experience I once had at Irvine Toyota. I had a 1989 Celica years ago. I had put over 150,000 miles on it when the engine was close to blowing. I ended up going to the dealer. I had a choice to make. Get rid of the car or get a new engine. Seeing as how I was younger and didn't really have the funds to get new wheels at the time, I opted for a rebuilt engine. Got the car, everything seemed fine.

A few days later, my car catches fire in Long Beach (Anaheim and Redondo for those familiar). I was very close to a gas station (of all places). The car was engulfed and started itself up (electrical) and then proceeded to head south on Anaheim. I stood there and watched the whole damned thing. Luckily, this even occured in the "hood," so it wasn't exactly an unusual occurence if you know what I mean. LBFD came out and put out the fire. Cause, gas line had not been reattached correctly. That was there official determination. I had the car towed back down to Irvine Toyota. They jerked me around. I wanted to sue the bastards for faulty workmanship and any other consumer protection law I could find. These jackasses agreed to do nothing for me other than sell me a new car. Wouldn't even do it at invoice. Since I had insurance, there was no suit, at least as it related to my individual property interest in the vehicle. My insurer totaled the car (their inspection and estimate), and issued me a check. There was nothing more I could do. Had I been uninsured, I could have sued the dealer, but in the end, I would have only probably gotten blue book value for the car since I had admitted that I wasn't hurt. I lost a few grand on the deal, especially because I had just forked out some $$ for a new engine. Luckily, my insurer gave me 50% of the value of the new engine + the blue book value of the car.

Stuka, I am assuming then that you also got a "check" and that is when you went over to Porsche? I am sorry all that happened to you, but when I read the first few lines of your story, I new exactly where this was going. Good luck to you.

[Bob330Ci]

Stories of joyrides in M3's by dealership techs was one of the reasons I was leery to get an M3. Just think if it had been a new car, not broken in, and they hadn't crashed. You might not even know about the abuse it got, as I'm sure most people never learn of the abuse their cars receive from the dealership.

There's also the comparison of what would happened if Stuka wrecked the loaner...it's flawed because the loaner was not the owner's personal car. They wrecked Stuka's personal car. (They implying shared responsibility.)

I thought BMW had a policy of no unattended test drives in any M products. It says something of that nature in my owner's manual. If not, they should.

B.

[HW]

not a lemon but maybe the story should go here too

www.bmwlemon.com :eeps:

[ghettobimmer]

:( that sucks dude.

[BlackChrome]

You know what? I guess Savage never learned their lessons! :thumbdwn:

Sounds familiar? (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=143208)

[doeboy]

You know what? I guess Savage never learend their lessons! :thumbdwn:

Sounds familar? (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=143208)

Oh man.... how many more times is this kind of thing going to happen there... :rolleyes: :tsk: :thumbdwn:

[swchang]

You know what? I guess Savage never learned their lessons! :thumbdwn:

Sounds familiar? (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=143208)

As if I needed another reason to give Savage two :thumbdwn:... :tsk:

[Chief]

You know what? I guess Savage never learned their lessons! :thumbdwn:

Sounds familiar? (http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=143208)

I just came across this post (linked over from e46fanatics.com) and I can't express how delighted I am that I did not purchase my car from Savage BMW.

As a member of the local and BMW Owner communities, I am disappointed in the actions of Mr. Savage and am hurt by the black eye he has left on the communities for which I am a part of. His actions, while solely his to choose as the owner of his establishment, has had an impact that reaches far beyond the doors of his own showroom floor.

I live Riverside and had visited Savage in the past while shopping for my bimmer (Side note - Within the last month I had a wonderful experience at Sterling BMW - traded in my '01 325Ci for a CPO '02 M3).

I have had great experiences at two different BMW Centers - BMW of Riverside and Sterling BMW, and would encourage anyone needing service in the area to visit either one.

Thank you for sharing your experience with all of us. Knowledge is power, and now we all have a little more of it.

Chief

[Stuka]

This story needs to be brought to the media.

Since BMWNA has decided not to bother with my problem by not responding to my request for someone who actually knows something about my case to JUST CALL ME, I would like to ask all of you who are, or have read this thread to link it, post it, and share the sotry with anyone, and yes, including the media, that you think would benefit from knowing my horrible experience with Savage BMW.

We are also working on a website, currently it just has a direct link back to this thread, but once Mr. Hack is done with it, it'll look like a real site.

www.savagebmwsucks.com
www.savagebmwsucks.org
www.savagebmwsucks.net

Thanks.

[vern]

Since BMWNA has decided not to bother with my problem by not responding to my request for someone who actually knows something about my case to JUST CALL ME, I would like to ask all of you who are, or have read this thread to link it, post it, and share the sotry with anyone, and yes, including the media, that you think would benefit from knowing my horrible experience with Savage BMW.

We are also working on a website, currently it just has a direct link back to this thread, but once Mr. Hack is done with it, it'll look like a real site.

www.savagebmwsucks.com
www.savagebmwsucks.org
www.savagebmwsucks.net

Thanks.
Andy IMHO with all the knowledge you have behind you on the subject matter you have to come up with something better than savage sucks!!!!!!!!!
vern

[HW]

Andy IMHO with all the knowledge you have behind you on the subject matter you have to come up with something better than savage sucks!!!!!!!!!
vern

www.savagebmws.com :dunno:
www.ssavagebmw.com
www.savvagebmw.com
www.savaggebmw.com
www.salvagebmw.com

[clumpymold]

www.savagebmws.com (http://www.savagebmws.com/) :dunno:
www.ssavagebmw.com (http://www.ssavagebmw.com/)
www.savvagebmw.com (http://www.savvagebmw.com/)
www.savaggebmw.com (http://www.savaggebmw.com/)
www.salvagebmw.com (http://www.salvagebmw.com)
Haha, those are GOOD ones! Don't forget the .org and .net ones. ;)

[waapples]

http://www.savagebmw.com/ :thumbup:

[HW]

http://www.savagebmw.com/ :thumbup:

:confused: :dunno: that ones already taken.

[clumpymold]

:eeps: maybe once registered. they may want to buy all of them from stuka... at the price of an m3. :eek: :angel:
Haha!!! :thumbup:

Now THAT would be awesome!!! Hell, if that were the case, buy as MANY of these as possible. Totally exploit them!!! :rofl:

[e46shift]

how are they a center of excellence. they should take that away :confused:

[Mysticblue325i]

So very SCARY! My car is over at Arrow Glen Auto Collision, which is in Savage's parking lot. In fact, they are having Salvage remove the engine to see if hit the rear apron or firewall (some jerk ran a red, and I broadsided hime when he entered the intersection). I wonder what else Savage will be doing. Great, now I'll be thinking of this for the next couple of months while they have it.

Did I mention it had 3k and was 3 months old, and had 18 grand in damage? On the PLUS side his insurance company was generous enough get me a Kia as a loaner! I so really, really miss my car, and it's been only 3 weeks so far.

[Raffi]

Did I mention it had 3k and was 3 months old, and had 18 grand in damage? On the PLUS side his insurance company was generous enough get me a Kia as a loaner! I so really, really miss my car, and it's been only 3 weeks so far.
You should fight the insurance co. to get you a comparable car.

[JJKK]

I send them emails through their website asking about their dealership and reference this incident . Needless to say, I have never gotten a response.

[scottn2retro]

Wow - this thread has passed 50K views! :yikes:

[SergioK]

I send them emails through their website asking about their dealership and reference this incident . Needless to say, I have never gotten a response.


Did you really think they would reply?

[berford]

Did you really think they would reply?


One would hope so...if only as a defensive position to head off further criticism.

[CtrlAltDel]

Story made Roundel!
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=686700

[The HACK]

Wow - this thread has passed 50K views! :yikes:
Well duh. Stuka views it at least 10x a day. :D

[scottn2retro]

Story made Roundel!
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=686700

Wow! Too bad they left out some important details - like the dealership where it happened :)

[Raffi]

Well duh. Stuka views it at least 10x a day. :D
:lmao:

[berford]

Wow! Too bad they left out some important details - like the dealership where it happened :)

Write a letter. Oh, and give a link to here.

[Stuka]

Well, what do you know, it looks like Savage BMW is hosting a BMWCCA LA chapter general meeting. :tsk:

http://www.bmwclubla.org/

On June 9th, Savage BMW will be hosting the general meeting. Now I am puzzled and am further distressed by the LA Chapter's choice of this dealership, especially after the Roundel letter, postings on the Internet (this thread now shows up on Google), and posting on the LA Chapter forums, that the LA Chapter still decides to have the meeting at Savage BMW.

For all of you who are still with the LA Chapter, I suggest that you all voice your concern with the people listed at this page:

http://bmwclubla.org/directory.shtml

[Raffi]

:rolleyes: :tsk:

[BavarianWheels]

For all of you who are still with the LA Chapter, I suggest that you all voice your concern with the people listed at this page:

http://bmwclubla.org/directory.shtml

As a new member of BMWCCA LA, I have voiced it on the boards. So far only views to the topic and no replys. I've posted about this twice. Once about the incident when I first found out...and when I saw that Savage was going to host a meeting...such a shame that "my" chapter would do this!! :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn:
.
.

[SergioK]

As a new member of BMWCCA LA, I have voiced it on the boards. So far only views to the topic and no replys. I've posted about this twice. Once about the incident when I first found out...and when I saw that Savage was going to host a meeting...such a shame that "my" chapter would do this!! :thumbdwn: :thumbdwn:
.
.

You can always change your chapter affiliation. :dunno:

[AB]

Check out the nifty artwork on Stuka's 911 :bigpimp:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29453

more here:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=738700&postcount=5

[berford]

Check out the nifty artwork on Stuka's 911 :bigpimp:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29453

more here:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=738700&postcount=5

:thumbup:

[HW]

Check out the nifty artwork on Stuka's 911 :bigpimp:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29453


:yikes: :rofl: :bustingup:

[SoCal88]

Not surprised by the actions of Savage....sorry to say....

[JT///M3]

I talk to some of the parts guys at savage, and they're oblivious as to the hate they get on the net. They don't even realize how many people know about them ****ing stuka over.

[bavarian323i]

Thats HORRIBLE....I emailed them and told them what I thought.

[16hr Day]

wow. what a story. That just SUCKS. Glad I went to South Bay BMW! :thumbup:

[HW]

Way to work this "tragedy" into your dream car Stuka. :thumbup:

but did stuka get a fair deal yet for the damaged m3? :dunno:

[Raffi]

a good lawyer friend. :thumbup:
:D :D :D :D

[SergioK]

:D :D :D :D

:clap:

[LeucX3]

Well, what do you know, it looks like Savage BMW is hosting a BMWCCA LA chapter general meeting. :tsk:

http://www.bmwclubla.org/

On June 9th, Savage BMW will be hosting the general meeting. Now I am puzzled and am further distressed by the LA Chapter's choice of this dealership, especially after the Roundel letter, postings on the Internet (this thread now shows up on Google), and posting on the LA Chapter forums, that the LA Chapter still decides to have the meeting at Savage BMW.

For all of you who are still with the LA Chapter, I suggest that you all voice your concern with the people listed at this page:

http://bmwclubla.org/directory.shtml
Organize a walkout. Once the meeting has started, make sure to wait until the Savage folks are there. Have Stuka ask for an apology and when they don't respond, have everyone walk out and leave. :D

[Raffi]

Organize a walkout. Once the meeting has started, make sure to wait until the Savage folks are there. Have Stuka ask for an apology and when they don't respond, have everyone walk out and leave. :D
:eeps: Good idea... :D

[CtrlAltDel]

Satch,

Thanks again for publishing my letter back in March entitled ‘Bad Dealer, Bad Brand’, but at omission in the article at the time…which I didn’t think of when you published it, has come back around in the latest May issue. In my initial letter to you, I included which dealership was involved in that particular incident (Savage BMW in California, if you don’t recall), but that information was totally left out. Now as James Barrow wrote in a response to my article, it appears that he assumes that this happened locally to me. My dealership in Akron (Dave Walter BMW) has one of the best Service Departments out there the more I find out about other places. I have received nothing but professional service and respect every single time I enter the dealership.

I would appreciate it if you could clarify that my local dealership was not where this incident occurred, as they have received a few inquiries in regards to the letter in Roundel. While its great that there are so many people out there reading the mag and spreading the word, I’d appreciate it if we could clarify it a bit more.


Thank you,
Jim Walsh

[BavarianWheels]

.
.
The response really upset me. What does he care if Stuka went with a Porsche instead of another BMW? That was the only thing he could find to "disagree" with IMHO.

Without mentioning Pete Savage by name, did nothing really. Although as of now, at least there are 58k views to this thread...not to mention all the other forums that have a link to this and have continued their own thread.
.
.

[operknockity]

Organize a walkout. Once the meeting has started, make sure to wait until the Savage folks are there. Have Stuka ask for an apology and when they don't respond, have everyone walk out and leave.
Nice idea, but knowing a lot of the older members of the LA Chapter, I really doubt this will happen.

[Raffi]

Nice idea, but knowing a lot of the older members of the LA Chapter, I really doubt this will happen.
Still worth a try imo.

[ELinder]

There is no excuse for that kind of attitude from a dealership, and Savage deserve everything they get as a result of it.

A very similar thing happened to me back in 1991. I had an Audi Coupe Quattro that had a very slow oil drip I couldn't pinpoint. I left it with Fred Baker Porsche-Audi in Cleveland, Ohio, so they could figure out where it was coming from. Well, a few days leter, I get a call that my car was rolled over on a highway offramp during a test drive. Apparently the driver his some ice while going a too fast.

I go there, see the car, meet with the service manager, and tell him I don't want the car back. I suggested the same thing as in this thread; they give me blue book and sell me a new car at cost and I pay the difference. At first he said no, it was just an accident, they'll fix it. I say no, I don't want it back. He argues that the same thing could have happened to me with a rental car. I tell him, no it couldn't. There is a big difference in how I drive my own car verses how I drive someone else's car. I am much more careful with someone else's property. After a few minutes, he agrees. End of story, and a very happy customer who has told many people about how well they handled the situation.

I even got a poster of a 944 Turbo in FreddyBaker racing trim signed by Fred Baker himself. He wrote: "Erich, I'm glad it wasn't the Porsche!" I also had a 944 at the time. Gotta love that attitude!

Erich

[NwptBchTi]

dealerships are scumbags. . .my dad just recently bought a 530i on trade for his modified E320 Mercedes and I heard from my brother in law who works at my BMW dealership that when they sent his previous car to Mercedes to be serviced, someone who works at the Mercedes dealership STOLE the alpine flip out LCD radio out of the car! I am just glad my dad did not have to deal with that.

[ctbmw]

HOW many times do we have to see this post?
-Mel
Not interested enough to see, just surprised to still see it floating around-it's like a ghost!
(yeah-look at all I'm missing)

[vern]

HOW many times do we have to see this post?
-Mel
Not interested enough to see, just surprised to still see it floating around-it's like a ghost!
(yeah-look at all I'm missing)
Nobody is forcing you to read the post,pase over it.I myself still find it very intresting to read the coments that are posted.
Have a nice day
vern

[Emission]

I just want to see how many views this post has...

[doeboy]

I just want to see how many views this post has...

... and bump the thread? :eeps: :D

[Emission]

... and bump the thread? :eeps: :D

Who? Me? :D

[doeboy]

Who? Me? :D

:eeps:

:D

[SergioK]

Who has all the photos of the car? I know they took more than just those three listed in Stuka's initial post.

[Raffi]

Who has all the photos of the car? I know they took more than just those three listed in Stuka's initial post.
Ask Stuka.

[SergioK]

Newly revamped site...

http://savagebmwsucks.com

[Raffi]

Newly revamped site...

http://savagebmwsucks.com
Damn, I took some nice pics! :bigpimp:

Too bad we only found out later that the front fenders had separated from the firewall, when the car was at Marcos Auto Body and I did not have a camera. That was just unbelievable. Oh, and I did not take pics showing the different gaps on each side of the trunk, hood, and the doors. :thumbdown:

[SergioK]

Damn, I took some nice pics! :bigpimp:

Too bad we only found out later that the front fenders had separated from the firewall, when the car was at Marcos Auto Body and I did not have a camera. That was just unbelievable. Oh, and I did not take pics showing the different gaps on each side of the trunk, hood, and the doors. :thumbdown:

I think just looking at that rear lower control arm snapped cleanly off is enough to revolt most car owners. So, I'd say that you took some pretty good pics too! :thumbup: Although the whole story is still quite disgusting. :mad:

[Raffi]

I think just looking at that rear lower control arm snapped cleanly off is enough to revolt most car owners. So, I'd say that you took some pretty good pics too! :thumbup: Although the whole story is still quite disgusting. :mad:
You really had to be there with Stuka and feel the poor sap's disgust and disbelief at what they'd done to his baby... and then to add insult to injury, the treatment we received from Peter Savage... :tsk: :rolleyes: :thumbdown: :mad:

[RomanS500]

I've heard about this story from bnzsport.com... I drive a benz and I'm not a very big fan of bimmers, but I'm outraged by your story man, and I feel for you. It's very sad to hear this type stories. I emailed the following to their customer sevice. :dunno:


Mr. Savage,

I can't believe what you have done to this person!!!!

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49291

I'll make sure to put the worst reviews for you on every bmw/mercedes/audi forum I know and every dealer rating site I find. I started with www.dealerrating.com

If you treat your customer this way, you have no right to be in car business, and should be growing potatoes on a farm. How could you even think about refusing to talk to your customer with a lawyer?!!

[berford]

I'll make sure to put the worst reviews for you on every bmw/mercedes/audi forum I know and every dealer rating site I find. I started with www.dealerrating.com




Must of meant http://www.dealerrater.com , eh?

Here's an alternate view from the site:
"This dealer will do what ever it takes to make there customers happy. I have read alot of crap about them on other web sites and I dont belive a word of it. It's a shame that one person has a bad experance and did not try to work it out without bring there attorney with them. Give me a break!!!! I bet this person bought his car out of state so he would not have to pay taxes! What type of loality is that also cheating our state out of money. Some day he should come clean and tell the whole story!!!!!!!"

Obviously English-challenged. A Savage employee, perhaps? :dunno: The whole world wants to know, now, why Stuka didn't pay CA sales taxes. Come clean. j/k

[SergioK]

Must of meant http://www.dealerrater.com , eh?

Here's an alternate view from the site:
"This dealer will do what ever it takes to make there customers happy. I have read alot of crap about them on other web sites and I dont belive a word of it. It's a shame that one person has a bad experance and did not try to work it out without bring there attorney with them. Give me a break!!!! I bet this person bought his car out of state so he would not have to pay taxes! What type of loality is that also cheating our state out of money. Some day he should come clean and tell the whole story!!!!!!!"

Obviously English-challenged. A Savage employee, perhaps? :dunno: The whole world wants to know, now, why Stuka didn't pay CA sales taxes. Come clean. j/k

Now there's a reason to wad up someone's car! :tsk:

[Raffi]

The whole world wants to know, now, why Stuka didn't pay CA sales taxes. Come clean. j/k
Sh!t, the cat's out of the bag now... :mad:


:angel: :lmao:

[SergioK]

Sh!t, the cat's out of the bag now...

:rofl: I think it's a well thought of plan between the gov't and dealerships... skimp on your taxes, and we wad up your car!

[tpetty]

Wow,
Don't think I've ever read a 14 page post before. Savage BMW really dropped the ball on this. Congrats on the new Porshe. I'm close to buying a used 540i 6 speed myself - luckily I'm far away from CA.

[berford]

Wow,
Don't think I've ever read a 14 page post before. Savage BMW really dropped the ball on this. Congrats on the new Porshe. I'm close to buying a used 540i 6 speed myself - luckily I'm far away from CA.


That's an awesome car...good luck with it. :thumbup:

[SergioK]

http://www.germantechnik.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8680

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125306

http://www.elantraxd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=985

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1265

[schreck]

I can't believe I just read that whole 14 page thread. Amazing story, I can't believe that happened!! That is absurd. Good thing you're happy with the turbo, though.

Alex

[cwsqbm]

I know that my switch from the BMW camp to the Porsche camp seems rather sudden, and truth be told, I loved my M3, but the ordeal that I experienced in getting the dealer that totaled my car during their joyriding to do the right thing, and BMWNA's usual lack of customer service attitude really made me ....

...I got on the phone with Sania at BMW NA customer service, and told her what had happened. Sania apologized, took my complaint and filed it under my VIN number, fed us the same line of "we can't do anything because the dealer is an independent company" and ended the phone conversation. I was looking for some help and guidance from BMW NA and all I got was a bland apology.

... Moral of the story? Be wary of Savage BMW.

Bad dealers exist for all brands. Savage deserves to lose business, and hopefully has by word of mouth. Still, walking in with a lawyer right away put him on the defensive.

What upsets me more is BMW NA's attitude. The dealer maybe independent, but they do have influence and rights under licensing argeements. Years ago, the local Ford dealership pulled some crap on my parents. They bitched to Ford corporate, who investigated the local dealership. After finding others had been cheated too, they closed the dealership. Glad it had a happy ending for you.

[SergioK]

Bad dealers exist for all brands. Savage deserves to lose business, and hopefully has by word of mouth. Still, walking in with a lawyer right away put him on the defensive.

What upsets me more is BMW NA's attitude. The dealer maybe independent, but they do have influence and rights under licensing argeements. Years ago, the local Ford dealership pulled some crap on my parents. They bitched to Ford corporate, who investigated the local dealership. After finding others had been cheated too, they closed the dealership. Glad it had a happy ending for you.

Wow, that's pretty amazing. Stuka's only bought (I think) a total of 3 BMWs from BMW NA over the years... Savage BMW has bought thousands over the years. Like they say, $$$ talks...

Hopefully this account and others from that dealership will affect them enough to make some core change.

[sithjedi333]

Bump. Great thread guys.

[pepilot]

I hate to be the odd man out here, but I have to admit that if I were the dealer and you apporached me for a meeting and showed up with an attorney, I would probably have the same response. I don't really know why you would think it's fair for you to show up with an attorney and then expect me to sit down with you without mine. As soon as the lawyers are brought in, it is a different game. I think that maybe the negotiations might have progressed much better without any threat of legal muscle hanging around. You are correct it's nice to have someone that knows the legal ropes, but honestly, the threat of litigation should be the last resort, not the first step. On your first meeting you show up with an attorney. Nope, I would not offer a thing either. If I did, I then risk you taking me to court to get more. I'd rather offer nothing now and then let the lawyers work it all out. Better yet, let my insurance company deal with it such as you had too.

Let's be realistic, what you were asking does not seem to far out of range. Sell a new car at invoice, no skin off their butt. Pay you high Blue Book, well, you would probably not have gotten that for your car so I'm sure you would have had to meet in the middle, but I bet you could have agreed on something you both could have lived with. But the minute you bring a lawyer in means that you really don't want to negotiate, it means you want to fight to get what you want. Expecting someone to roll over because an attorney is involved just doesn't work in the business world, typically it causes the opposite effect as is the case here.

Don't take these comments as to mean that what happened was OK. It was a very unfortunate event for everyone. I am sure Savage had no intention of some young kid taking your car for a joy ride. There are bad apples everywhere and they hired one by accident. I am sure this isn't the first time this has happened and I'm sure it happens at other dealers of all brands.

Look at the bright side, you are now the proud owner of a Porshe. It is pretty tough not to feel happy for you. It's just a pity it had to happen the way it did.

BTW, I have never been to Savage and have no personal experience with them. I have to admit, so far my experiences with BMWNA have not been shining ones either. They do seem pretty useless. But, in fairness, as a businessman, when an attorney comes to a meeting with me, I keep my mouth shut until mine gets there. I am not an attorney and have no desire to engage wits with one.

Best of luck with your new ride!

[MatWiz]

Your first post and you come up with that??? :tsk:

[markseven]

I hate to be the odd man out here, but I have to admit that if I were the dealer and you apporached me for a meeting and showed up with an attorney, I would probably have the same response. I don't really know why you would think it's fair for you to show up with an attorney and then expect me to sit down with you without mine. As soon as the lawyers are brought in, it is a different game. I think that maybe the negotiations might have progressed much better without any threat of legal muscle hanging around. You are correct it's nice to have someone that knows the legal ropes, but honestly, the threat of litigation should be the last resort, not the first step. On your first meeting you show up with an attorney. Nope, I would not offer a thing either. If I did, I then risk you taking me to court to get more. I'd rather offer nothing now and then let the lawyers work it all out. Better yet, let my insurance company deal with it such as you had too.

Let's be realistic, what you were asking does not seem to far out of range. Sell a new car at invoice, no skin off their butt. Pay you high Blue Book, well, you would probably not have gotten that for your car so I'm sure you would have had to meet in the middle, but I bet you could have agreed on something you both could have lived with. But the minute you bring a lawyer in means that you really don't want to negotiate, it means you want to fight to get what you want. Expecting someone to roll over because an attorney is involved just doesn't work in the business world, typically it causes the opposite effect as is the case here.

Don't take these comments as to mean that what happened was OK. It was a very unfortunate event for everyone. I am sure Savage had no intention of some young kid taking your car for a joy ride. There are bad apples everywhere and they hired one by accident. I am sure this isn't the first time this has happened and I'm sure it happens at other dealers of all brands.

Look at the bright side, you are now the proud owner of a Porshe. It is pretty tough not to feel happy for you. It's just a pity it had to happen the way it did.

BTW, I have never been to Savage and have no personal experience with them. I have to admit, so far my experiences with BMWNA have not been shining ones either. They do seem pretty useless. But, in fairness, as a businessman, when an attorney comes to a meeting with me, I keep my mouth shut until mine gets there. I am not an attorney and have no desire to engage wits with one.

Best of luck with your new ride!
You seem like a nice guy, but I wouldn't want to buy anything that cost more than $5 from you. :) Savage was completely at fault, they should have acted in good faith whether or not they had legal council present.

-Mark

[Chupracabre]

They should offer fair bluebook - I agree, that you were correct in only asking for what the vehicle was worth.

To their argument of ... What if you had crashed their loaner?

Simple. I have insurance and thats what it is for.

So the deal is regardless of authorized or unauthorized test drive they crashed it, they have to pay for it. Thats why they have business insurance.

Now because they screwed up asking for a good deal on your next purchase is not unreasonable either.

They should have no issue in extending that to you. Thats just plain good customer service.

Hmmm - but isn't that the problem accross the board. Not many good BMWdealerships offer basic customer service, let alone good or great service.

We pay a preimum price for the cars in the class - we would expect preimum service.

So I totally agree with what you did.

[berford]

You seem like a nice guy, but I wouldn't want to buy anything that cost more than $5 from you. :) Savage was completely at fault, they should have acted in good faith whether or not they had legal council present.

-Mark
Good faith is certainly the key. They were complete jerks.

[SergioK]

We pay a preimum price for the cars in the class - we would expect preimum service.

This is exactly why Lexus has grabbed such a huge market share. When they started up, I'd hear stories of Lexus dealerships going faaaaar out of their way to accomodate any and all requests by customers. BMW customer service needs to learn by their example but in the end, I think BMW prefers to keep the status quo and the $2.8 billion (or so) net profit they saw last year as well. :thumbdwn:

[The HACK]

But, in fairness, as a businessman, when an attorney comes to a meeting with me, I keep my mouth shut until mine gets there. I am not an attorney and have no desire to engage wits with one.

Best of luck with your new ride!

Um, he was there with a friend to inspect the vehicle. The friend just happens to have a license to practice law in California and had the time to accompany him. It was NEVER implied that this friend was there to serve as his attorney nor was it ever implied that this friend's services had been retained. In fact, this "attorney" friend earned not a single dime from Stuka in this entire experience.

What if Stuka was a lawyer, would Savage deal with him the same way? Shut the door because now he's dealing with a lawyer? I don't think so.

[Technic]

But, in fairness, as a businessman, when an attorney comes to a meeting with me, I keep my mouth shut until mine gets there. I am not an attorney and have no desire to engage wits with one.

Best of luck with your new ride!

But, in fairness, as a customer -whom just found out that a dealer employee, on the dealer's ground, using the dealer's facilities, and on the dealer's paid time took without authorization MY car and crash it- when THE dealer owner does not want to even admit responsability to what happened in his/her own dealer, I'll not keep my mouth shut and I'll be carrying the biggest stick around -be a lawyer or the police- to make my point extremely clear: you will be responsible for this. I am no sorry ass businessman and I have no desire to waste my time with one... :rolleyes:

[rhinom67]

Sounds like the worst customer service in history!!! their insurance would have absorbed most of the cost. You lost a great car.....a DAEWOO dealership would have offered you better customer service.... :thumbdwn:

[ketchup]

good god, I'm never going to have my motor cleaned :( .

My BMW service experience so far has been garbage and probably will continue to be garbage. BMW dealers and BMWNA, just do not care for their customers. Once the car is sold to you, your on your own. Seems like a grimey used car dealership to me :thumbdwn: . Honda's service has always treated me better than BMW's and even the worst service that I've recieved from Lexus, was better than that of BMW.

Wow, that control arm snapped right off. That's just about all you need to declare the car as a goner.

On the bright side, you now drive a porsche! With a sweeeet decal :thumbup:

I can't wait to get one too! (don't get me wrong, my BMW is a great car and all but I don't know how much longer I can put up with this crappy service.)

[Spiderm0n]

Um, he was there with a friend to inspect the vehicle. The friend just happens to have a license to practice law in California and had the time to accompany him. It was NEVER implied that this friend was there to serve as his attorney nor was it ever implied that this friend's services had been retained.

That doesn't seem completely accurate. How did they figure out Raffi was an attorney? He must have been talking in a legalistic manner. At that point, it was fair for the dealer to assume his services had been retained as a lawyer (pro bono work is still work). I don't think it was a coincidence that Stuka had a lawyer with him.

Also, I agree that it was too early to bring a lawyer into the equation. I am not defending the dealer's actions, but it is possible that things may have turned out better if Raffi hadn't been there so early in the process. Of course it's possible that things could have turned out worse if Stuka had been overwhelmed in his negotiations with the dealer and agreed to a horrible settlement, but I doubt that would have happened.

[Technic]

Also, I agree that it was too early to bring a lawyer into the equation.

When then it is convenient to bring a lawyer to this kind of mess? :dunno:

At 3:42PM on 7/30, my SA called and informed me that my car was crashed by their test driver while out on an unauthorized test drive. How do I know that it was unauthorized? Well, my SA admitted it, saying that the car was already QC'ed on 7/29, which was why he called that day to inform me that the car was ready for pick up. In fact, the test driver, in his early twenties, did not even have a tech sheet with him. He apparently wanted to see what an M3 could do. I was told by my SA that I should come by the next morning to check out my car and meet with the owner, Peter Savage, to discuss a solution to the situation.

If I'd been told by phone that my car was crashed while in a joyride and while in the dealer's possession, I would show up with a lawyer too the next morning, be as a friend, lawyer or as a witness. I will know right there at the phone that they are going to avoid any kind of responsability in person. After all it was a joyride gone wrong done under their noses...

If the dealer is straight forward the lawyer should not even have to talk, and the problem will be solved right there, so what is the issue?

Sorry, this is one of those cases that you have to shoot first and ask questions later, anything less and the dealer will blame anything but themselves for the "accident"... :rolleyes:

[Spiderm0n]

When then it is convenient to bring a lawyer to this kind of mess? :dunno:

IMO, after it is clear that you cannot reach a solution without one, or when the other side brings in one.

[berford]

IMO, after it is clear that you cannot reach a solution without one, or when the other side brings in one.
Probably true.

Does anyone know how Savage is doing after this? I've been rooting for demise since first reading this.

[Raffi]

Does anyone know how Savage is doing after this? I've been rooting for demise since first reading this.
It received an award for outstanding customer service or whatever it's called from BMW NA! :rolleyes: Savage's self-serving ad to that effect is in the latest Roundel.

[Alex Baumann]

.... or whatever it's called from BMW NA! .

Crash test ? :eeps: :p

[Galun]

It received an award for outstanding customer service or whatever it's called from BMW NA! :rolleyes: Savage's self-serving ad to that effect is in the latest Roundel.

Well, that's why they don't care.

We can vote with our feet, but it probably won't change things in the grand scheme of things. It's a cultural issue, and not one that we can change easily. If I don't like my dealer, I just hold my nose and find another one.

[SergioK]

It received an award for outstanding customer service or whatever it's called from BMW NA! :rolleyes: Savage's self-serving ad to that effect is in the latest Roundel.

QMS! Oh how mighty the QMS Status must be if BMW dishes out awards to $tealerships like Savage. :thumbdwn:

[kyfdx]

My wife works in customer service for a large multi-national company (management).. When any customer in the course of conversation brings up legal action, the customer service is immediately terminated, and they are referred to the legal department..

I'm not defending Savage... but, that is the way the world works.. If you bring out the big guns, then expect the same in return..

I'm not sure how I would have handled it, but with 20/20 hindsight, perhaps a meeting first to see what is offered, then bring in the legal help if you can't do it on your own..

The dealer bringing up what happens if you wreck his loaner? That was bush league... You are AUTHORIZED to drive that car.... Joy rides by company employees demonstrate negligence... Not even comparable..

regards,
kyfdx

[aidensocal]

You should have taken this to civil trial. The judge would have undoubtly ruled in your favor as the QC happened after you were informed the vehicle was ready to leave. You would have recovered the price of the car, could have recovered damages for distress, and attorney fees for your good friend raffi.



I know that my switch from the BMW camp to the Porsche camp seems rather sudden, and truth be told, I loved my M3, but the ordeal that I experienced in getting the dealer that totaled my car during their joyriding to do the right thing, and BMWNA's usual lack of customer service attitude really made me rethink what I thought was going to be an easy decision of simply ordering another M3.

Here's how it all happened:

I custom ordered my M3 with SMG and Xenon only. It was Carbon Black, it had no moon roof, and had the cloth seats instead of leather. I simply did not want options I did not need and wanted a unique car. As some of you who have custom ordered your cars might recall, it takes about 3 months from 111 status to picking up the car at the dealership.

Part I, The Customer is Unreasonable:

On 7/28, I brought my 30K mile 02 M3 with SMG to Savage BMW for a routine oil change. They put me in an E46 330Xi loaner, and sent me on my merry way. The next day, 7/29, my service advisor (SA) called me and left a message with the office receptionist informing me that my car was ready for pick up. I did not get the message until almost the end of the day, so I called my SA back the next morning (7/30) and told him that I'd be there after work to pick up my car.

At 3:42PM on 7/30, my SA called and informed me that my car was crashed by their test driver while out on an unauthorized test drive. How do I know that it was unauthorized? Well, my SA admitted it, saying that the car was already QC'ed on 7/29, which was why he called that day to inform me that the car was ready for pick up. In fact, the test driver, in his early twenties, did not even have a tech sheet with him. He apparently wanted to see what an M3 could do. I was told by my SA that I should come by the next morning to check out my car and meet with the owner, Peter Savage, to discuss a solution to the situation.

So I called Raffi, who’s a lawyer, told him what happened, and asked him to come with me to the dealership. I brushed off that nagging negative feeling of not getting a call from the owner of the dealership for something this major, and I thought that based on my previous experience with Savage BMW, that Peter Savage would make it right. Up to this point, Savage BMW had been a great dealership in service, always providing me with loaners and taking good care of my car. They were always able to fix whatever issues I have with my car, and were always pleasant to deal with. On top of that, I have never met another SA as upstanding as Eric Hall. Based on that, I thought that I'd show up, they'd apologize, and if the car were badly damaged, we’d work out something reasonable.

The next morning, 7/31, Raffi showed up at 6 in the morning, and we drove over to Savage BMW. My SA greeted us and led us to the car for us to inspect the carnage.

As best as I was able to determine, the test driver lost control of my car turning right. The car went into a very fast oversteer, the driver could not correct it and the driver-side rear wheel hit the concrete curb so hard, it broke off. The rear control arm snapped off and the impact caused the panel behind the driver door to be pulled in by the frame, breaking the welds. The momentum then carried the car along the concrete curb and rashed the front wheel, damaged the front suspension and twisted the front bumper. In the process, both the driver side door and head airbags deployed.

Upon further inspection, we discovered that the driver side front quarter panel rivets securing it to the engine bay were knocked out of alignment by a good 5mm. Furthermore, the driver side partitioning wall near the strut tower was torn all the way down, and the rear driver quarter panel was gouged by the trunk lid hitting the panel, all due to the sheer force of the impact. None of the panels in the car (doors, trunk, hood) were correctly aligned anymore, all from a “QC test drive.” The rear half of the car was twisted upwards and towards the passenger side a good half inch.

Does that sound like a BMW prescribed QC test drive?

So at around 8 o'clock, we met with Bill Smith, the service manager. After seeing the condition of my car, I told him flat out that I didn't want the car back, as it was obviously totalled and would never be the same. He labeled my request as totally unreasonable and even countered by asking "If you get into an accident on the track, do you automatically get a new car?" The service manager then figured out pretty quickly that Raffi was a lawyer, and advised us that we would have to speak to the owner, Peter Savage himself, and ended the meeting.

So after an hour, we were finally able to meet with Mr. Savage. However, upon learning that I had a lawyer with me, Peter Savage was not even going to meet with me, unless Raffi was not present in the meeting. It was clear to me he was trying to take advantage of his business skills, and get me to agree to whatever he put on the table. After some stern words from Raffi, Mr. Savage finally agreed to meet with us. In the meeting, I told him that all I wanted was to have them buy my car back at Blue Book retail, and give me a new M3 at invoice, and something to drive in the mean time. They could then deal with my old car as they wished. I was obviously going to absorb the difference between the used car blue book and the new car invoice, since after all, my car was not brand new. Mr. Savage, who looked very uncomfortable by now, thought that I was being unreasonable, and retorted with irrelevant questions, such as: "Let me ask you this, if you had crashed my loaner, do I automatically get a new one from you? and "I know that Andy takes this car to the track, and that he did not exactly baby the car" and, best of all, "I heard from the service guys that the tires were bald" (to which we have photographic evidence showing otherwise). Mr. Savage refused to even acknowledge liability for the joyride incident, and brushed the problem off by telling us to deal with his insurance company. Only after Raffi brought up the issue did Mr. Savage at least allow me to keep the 330xi loaner until their insurance company found us a suitable rental. He told us to pick up a copy of their insurance card from Bill Smith to file the claim, then sent us on our way and ended the meeting.

Now what would you do if you were not fortunate enough to have a lawyer friend like Raffi who also happened to be a car nut? I would be left to deal with insurance companies which, as we know, are not exactly the quickest to pay and would try to drag this matter on forever until I gave up and accepted a lowball offer. This alone is the reason why even though we settled the property damage claim in October, I feel compelled to share my story with you all.

Part II, We'll Fix Your Car:

Before we left Savage, I decided to chat with their on-site body shop. The estimator told me that based on visual inspection, the car had sustained about $20K in damage. Unfortunately for him, I have clients in the body shop business, and I also happen to be very familiar with both Ultramate and Pathways, the estimating programs for body shops. The car was totaled, without question, a tweaked front, wheel broken off, airbags, torn off bumper, and miscellaneous other damage, and he thought there was only $20K in damage?

We then left the dealership, feeling "savaged." At 2:31 PM, I got on the phone with Sania at BMW NA customer service, and told her what had happened. Sania apologized, took my complaint and filed it under my VIN number, fed us the same line of "we can't do anything because the dealer is an independent company" and ended the phone conversation. I was looking for some help and guidance from BMW NA and all I got was a bland apology.

I then called my SA and requested that the car be towed to Marco's Universal City body shop for a neutral third party estimate. Savage BMW seemed reluctant to relinquish the car, so I had to call again on 8/1 and finally the car was towed to Marcos in Universal City. I had to be firm and insist that the car be fixed elsewhere, so that there would not be any possible influence by Savage.

After 3 months of back and forth with the insurance carrier for Savage, the car was finally totalled. What would have happened to me if I didn’t know anyhing about the body shop business? I would have allowed them to fix the car for $20K and gotten a car that is basically worthless because it is now tweaked on both the front and the rear, with a severely affected resale value. To this day, however, Savage BMW and its insurance carrier insist that this was just an accident, not the result of a joyride. Now, again, if the car was ready for pick up on 7/29, how could my M3 be wrecked while the QC tech was on a "scheduled test drive" on 7/30, one day after the car was already ready for pick up? Why would my SA admit that it was a joyride? And if I didn't retain a lawyer, and didn't have any knowledge of the body shop business, I am sure that I would have been suckered into getting my car fixed, which would have taken several months, and would have ended up with a 30K mile E46 M3 with a severely tweaked frame that was allegedly "good as new."

Moral of the story? Be wary of Savage BMW.

[berford]

It received an award for outstanding customer service or whatever it's called from BMW NA! :rolleyes: Savage's self-serving ad to that effect is in the latest Roundel.
OMG!!! That's disgusting.

[bimmerguy]

jlau01

To all that live east of Los Angeles. Do not go to get you car serviced at Savage BMW, especially if you value your sanity. Here is a copy of my complaint letter to them. They were not very apologetic either.

Dear Mr. Savage,

I know that Savage BMW is a “smaller dealership” relative to others in the Southern California area. I also know through your employees that great service is the key area that your dealership prides itself in. I am writing to inform you that Savage BMW has definitely not achieved that goal!! I am extremely disappointed with the service and poor quality of work that I have received from your dealership. I find your staff completely untrustworthy, irresponsible, unprofessional, and have no pride in what they do. Here is a summary of my ordeal.


http://www.automotiveforums.com/t318521-warning_about_savage_bmw_service.html

[SergioK]

At least he still has his car, right? :rolleyes:

[JT///M3]

Savage BMW should just be sold and the name changed to something else. I hope they go out of business.

[JT///M3]

Probably true.

Does anyone know how Savage is doing after this? I've been rooting for demise since first reading this.

supposedly they say they have so much business, they have to turn away ppl. they also completed a remodel of their lobby in the last year. I know one of the parts guy there so I might try to ask him next time I'm in the area. We'll see.

[Guido]

It`s the same no matter what the business is, liars, cheaters and thieves and most of them are in sales. They will tell you anything to get your money and they will tell you anything necessary to keep it once they have it. They will lie to your face like it was nothing and pump you so full of total BS and rhetoric that they will leave your head spinning as you walk away confused and SCREWED. This is definately done by design, it`s like an accepted business practice in the "Unwritten" rule book of Retail sales.

That`s why I never buy a new car, because I don`t like dealing with nimrods, flakes, boneheads and Sales people. Have you ever gone to a dealer and asked about a specific vehicle and have some pimple faced puke declare by ESP that this is not the vehicle you want, but this one right over here is what you want! When it happened to me I looked at him like he was out of his friggin mine, told him to get or buy a clue, to never again presume to tell ME what I want and then asked him to direct me to the sales manager who I spoke to with as much sarcasm as necessary to make my point. My point was, "If you ain`t got what I`m looking for, just say so, but don`t pretend my name is Sheeple like the rest of the dullards who fall for that crap. Then there is the guy in the isle of certain popular store where lifetime guaranty tools are sold, he will ask "Can I help you find something?" No, I kmow what I`m looking for and where to find it, but I`m just browsing right now. 5 minutes later in the next isl, I`m reading a box label that tells me everything I need or want to know and he bugs me again "Is there anything I can help you with?" NO! I reply. He says he`ll be right over there if I need him. That won`t be necessary, I like to do my own homework, that`s why I always know exactly what I am going there to buy. To me these people are an attack on my shopping pleasure and I feel they are ultimately useless unless they have a ladder with them to reach high up on the shelf hahahaha. Same deal, trying to get close enough to try to sell you something they KNOW you do NOT want.

I know it`s not exactly the same, but the tactics are all there. Bringing your lawyer was a good idea and I doubt it cost you any time resolving the issue. Matter of fact, if Mr. Savage ever intended to take his own heat, admit he hired a dumbass and do whatever it was going to take to keep you from sueing his assets off, then he would have had ZERO reason to be on the defensive over a lawyer being present, but quite the opposite would be true if he had intended to hose you from the get go and he figured tthat your lawyer wasn`t going to let him bone you, so he didn`t want to talk with the hired gun in the room. Without the lawyer present he would have told you it was your fault and that it`s your problem and all you did was blow his best laid plans. That`s why the owner of the dealership didn`t call you himself, he was probably too busy trying to dream up ten different ways that it was on you, not him and that takes time.

If it were me, I`d drive my Porsche to court when I sued Savage in Civil court as well as the actual driver. Getting my car replaced would have only been step one because negligence and moreover, GROSS negligence is something to consider. In my opinion you shouldn`t have had to pull even one penny from your pocket, the dealer should have absorbed your depreciation as well, Just for the sake of doing good business.

But nooooo, Retail is cut throat and they wear a smile too. If I want to have someone smile in my face while they stab me in the back, I could have any one of three ex-wives do it for a whole lot less money Hahahahahahaha



Everyone is glad you got it worked out really well as am I, but I`m bummed that Savage and the turd didn`t really really suffer because of it. And BMW is just like any other automaker, pass the buck, lie and deny yada yada yada not their problem. Why am I not surprised ??

[TGray5]

Good God is this thread still alive?

[The HACK]

Good God is this thread still alive?
If this thread can still be alive:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61363

Why not Stuka's saga against Savage?

[Artslinger]

If this thread can still be alive:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61363

Why not Stuka's saga against Savage?

What a amazingly stupid thread :eek: and funny. :rofl:

[MatWiz]

What a amazingly stupid thread :eek: and funny. :rofl:
And kind of ironic, if you think about it... :rofl:
.~`

[Bob Clevenger]

Getting back to the topic of this thread, I have given Savage BMW a second chance, as it were.

When the bumper of my M coupe was scratched by their service dept. I didn't get all shook up --- after all accidents do happen --- and they had it repaired very nicely at their cost.
One for Savage.

However, their parts dept. don't seem to be able to LISTEN to the customer. Every time I go to get a part for my coupe I say very clearly and distinctly that the part is for a "2002 M coupe" and every time they come back with the part for a 2002 M3 coupe. I am willing to accept this as part of the price I pay for having a rare car. But it still bothers me.
This one's pretty much even, neither for nor against Savage.

I am currently having my rear-view mirror replaced under warrantee by Savage.
I came in and they agreed that my mirror needs to be replaced, and that warrantee would cover it.
They didn't have the mirror in stock (no surprise, I expected they would have to order it).
A week later I was in to buy a part (unrelated to the mirror), I asked an SA how my mirror order was coming. He said the mirror was in. I hadn't been notified of this. So he says that I will need to bring the car in before 10:00 to get it changed in the same day.
It takes 8 hours to change a mirror???
So we make an appointment and I bring the car in the next morning at 10:00. They take it into the shop and I commence to wait. I had a book with me and I read a while. Then I walked outside to stretch my legs and while I'm outside my coupe comes roaring down the road and into the lot. Now I'm not bothered by the way it was being driven; everything was under control and not inherently unsafe. What I am bothered about is the fact that they drove it off the lot at all. A mirror replacement does not require a test drive.
Then to top it off, a few minutes later I am told that they ordered the wrong mirror and that they will order "all the mirrors" and then use the right one. OK, whatever. They give me my car back after they wash it.
But why did they drive the car off the lot? There had been no work done at all. Nothing to test here guys, go about your business.
This is a big one against Savage.

After the mirror is replaced I don't think I will be doing any more business with Savage BMW.

[MatWiz]

Dear Bob,

They have to drive the car to diagnose the mirror. You can't check a mirror on the Diagnostic Computer since a mirror does not usually leave an error code.

They also need to drive it quite fast, roaring down to road to see how the mirror behaves in all different speeds.

Once the problem is verified, they then need to check if the part (the correct part) is in storage. There is no point in checking to see if the part is in storage if there is no need to replace it, right?

So there is nothing wrong with Savage BMW and you should keep taking your M car to them. After all, an M is just a simple cheap car and any dealership can handle that.

I support your decision to financially support this dealership.

After all, "Freedom means the ability to chose people you don't like, to do things to something that you do like." Right? Or did I say it wrong? Let me read your sig again. :thumbup:

[Qship]

Stuka,

Sorry you had to deal with all that- sounds incredibly aggravating.

Might I ask why your license plate has a frame from a dealer (who happens to me my local one) out here in Indiana?

Holey ****e! It IS a DeFouw frame (Iremoved mine within an hour of purchase).

[geebeemer]

savage (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=savage) - (svj)
adj.

1. Not domesticated or cultivated; wild: savage beasts of the jungle.
2. Not civilized; barbaric: a savage people.
3. Ferocious; fierce: in a savage temper.
4. Vicious or merciless; brutal: a savage attack on a political rival. See Synonyms at cruel (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cruel).
5. Lacking polish or manners; rude.


n.

1. A person regarded as primitive or uncivilized.
2. A person regarded as brutal, fierce, or vicious.
3. A rude person; a boor.

[jawjatek]

LOL.

What a travesty. Hope my dealer is better than that one. Sheesh.

[teh_jev]

Dear Bob,

They have to drive the car to diagnose the mirror. You can't check a mirror on the Diagnostic Computer since a mirror does not usually leave an error code.

They also need to drive it quite fast, roaring down to road to see how the mirror behaves in all different speeds.

Once the problem is verified, they then need to check if the part (the correct part) is in storage. There is no point in checking to see if the part is in storage if there is no need to replace it, right?

So there is nothing wrong with Savage BMW and you should keep taking your M car to them. After all, an M is just a simple cheap car and any dealership can handle that.

I support your decision to financially support this dealership.

After all, "Freedom means the ability to chose people you don't like, to do things to something that you do like." Right? Or did I say it wrong? Let me read your sig again. :thumbup::rofl: :rofl:

[gr8330]

I still believe the dealers tell BMWNA what to, so IMO that makes Tom Purvis just a dealer pawn. I went by the dealer I bought my 330 from (third BMW from them) and wanted to drive an M3 but was told the only way to drive an M3 was to pass a credit check, come to terms on a deal, than I could drive a used M3. :mad: I walked next door to the Porsche dealer and the salesman had me drive a 997, a 997S, a GT3, and a Turbo S. He than said we drove a lot today and if your a little unsure came back tomorrow and we will drive them again if that helps. I did come back the next day and bought a Porsche.
Sorry for the hijack but had to add my .02

[JT///M3]

Then I walked outside to stretch my legs and while I'm outside my coupe comes roaring down the road and into the lot.

This is the kind of BS that makes me wish Savage burns down to the ground.

There is abosolutely NO REASON why they needed to test drive your car. Zero.

[stewthebassman]

Here is a story about a Ford Mechanic who took a Cobra out for a joyride...he lost his job after the owner found out about him posting his thrill ride in a forum!!!!!

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/9/27/114221/261

[berford]

Here is a story about a Ford Mechanic who took a Cobra out for a joyride...he lost his job after the owner found out about him posting his thrill ride in a forum!!!!!

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/9/27/114221/261
Not to justify his actions, but at least he didn't wreck the car.

[stewthebassman]

Yeah, Stuka totally got shafted. In the Mustang story the dealership made up with the disgruntled client in the end and she stated so in a letter when it was all wrapped up. This Savage guy is disconnected from reality.

[schley]

wow... this is like a novel thread...... great reading on what is possible with a BMW dealership and the ins and outs of how to protect ourselves as consumers thanks for sharing.

[DaKine]

I can not BELEIVE how this post has spread, its amazing! I am sure at least 100,000 people (I am being literal, too) have read this! Another perfect example of why customer service is so important.

Congrats on your TT. I am sure you will love it dearly. I would, thats for sure.

Did I say 100,000? At this rate, the number is probably in the MILLIONS. Wow

[berford]

I can not BELEIVE how this post has spread, its amazing! I am sure at least 100,000 people (I am being literal, too) have read this! Another perfect example of why customer service is so important.

Congrats on your TT. I am sure you will love it dearly. I would, thats for sure.

Did I say 100,000? At this rate, the number is probably in the MILLIONS. Wow
83,454 according to the current post count. Of course, that includes duplicates.

[DaKine]

83,454 according to the current post count. Of course, that includes duplicates.

I know, I was exaggerating, but, you do have to take into consideration that all of the people who spread this onto message boards didnt nessicarily give a link... they may have just copied and pasted the text itself.

[DaKine]

Must of meant http://www.dealerrater.com , eh?

Here's an alternate view from the site:
"This dealer will do what ever it takes to make there customers happy. I have read alot of crap about them on other web sites and I dont belive a word of it. It's a shame that one person has a bad experance and did not try to work it out without bring there attorney with them. Give me a break!!!! I bet this person bought his car out of state so he would not have to pay taxes! What type of loality is that also cheating our state out of money. Some day he should come clean and tell the whole story!!!!!!!"

Obviously English-challenged. A Savage employee, perhaps? :dunno: The whole world wants to know, now, why Stuka didn't pay CA sales taxes. Come clean. j/k

What a stupid, uninformed prick. Buying a car out of state doesn't mean you avoid paying taxes. You pay CA sales tax to the DMV when you register you car.

I bet this is a Savage employee... his lack of anything resembling intelligence proves it.

[germanblood]

What a bunch of A holes at Savage! I'll be sure to spread the word to all my car buddies.

[Raffi]

What a stupid, uninformed prick. Buying a car out of state doesn't mean you avoid paying taxes. You pay CA sales tax to the DMV when you register you car.
Especially since Stuka bought his car in Indiana because he knew the dealer there and got a great deal, whereas M3s in L.A. came with a $10K to $15K mark-up above MSRP at the time... :rolleyes:

[DaKine]

Especially since Stuka bought his car in Indiana because he knew the dealer there and got a great deal, whereas M3s in L.A. came with a $10K to $15K mark-up above MSRP at the time... :rolleyes:

Good move. Oh, buy the way Raffi, I hope you didn't think I was calling Stuka an uninformed prick, I was talking about the guy ripping on him

[hecklerz]

One of the most infuriating stories I have read in a while. :mad:

Glad to read you are at least very happy with you new ride :thumbup:

[Raffi]

Good move. Oh, buy the way Raffi, I hope you didn't think I was calling Stuka an uninformed prick, I was talking about the guy ripping on him
I knew that! :D :thumbup:

[Midknight]

I know that my switch from the BMW camp to the Porsche camp seems rather sudden, and truth be told, I loved my M3, but the ordeal that I experienced in getting the dealer that totaled my car during their joyriding to do the right thing, and BMWNA's usual lack of customer service attitude really made me rethink what I thought was going to be an easy decision of simply ordering another M3.

Here's how it all happened:

I custom ordered my M3 with SMG and Xenon only. It was Carbon Black, it had no moon roof, and had the cloth seats instead of leather. I simply did not want options I did not need and wanted a unique car. As some of you who have custom ordered your cars might recall, it takes about 3 months from 111 status to picking up the car at the dealership.

Part I, The Customer is Unreasonable:

On 7/28, I brought my 30K mile 02 M3 with SMG to Savage BMW for a routine oil change. They put me in an E46 330Xi loaner, and sent me on my merry way. The next day, 7/29, my service advisor (SA) called me and left a message with the office receptionist informing me that my car was ready for pick up. I did not get the message until almost the end of the day, so I called my SA back the next morning (7/30) and told him that I'd be there after work to pick up my car.

At 3:42PM on 7/30, my SA called and informed me that my car was crashed by their test driver while out on an unauthorized test drive. How do I know that it was unauthorized? Well, my SA admitted it, saying that the car was already QC'ed on 7/29, which was why he called that day to inform me that the car was ready for pick up. In fact, the test driver, in his early twenties, did not even have a tech sheet with him. He apparently wanted to see what an M3 could do. I was told by my SA that I should come by the next morning to check out my car and meet with the owner, Peter Savage, to discuss a solution to the situation.

So I called Raffi, who’s a lawyer, told him what happened, and asked him to come with me to the dealership. I brushed off that nagging negative feeling of not getting a call from the owner of the dealership for something this major, and I thought that based on my previous experience with Savage BMW, that Peter Savage would make it right. Up to this point, Savage BMW had been a great dealership in service, always providing me with loaners and taking good care of my car. They were always able to fix whatever issues I have with my car, and were always pleasant to deal with. On top of that, I have never met another SA as upstanding as Eric Hall. Based on that, I thought that I'd show up, they'd apologize, and if the car were badly damaged, we’d work out something reasonable.

The next morning, 7/31, Raffi showed up at 6 in the morning, and we drove over to Savage BMW. My SA greeted us and led us to the car for us to inspect the carnage.

As best as I was able to determine, the test driver lost control of my car turning right. The car went into a very fast oversteer, the driver could not correct it and the driver-side rear wheel hit the concrete curb so hard, it broke off. The rear control arm snapped off and the impact caused the panel behind the driver door to be pulled in by the frame, breaking the welds. The momentum then carried the car along the concrete curb and rashed the front wheel, damaged the front suspension and twisted the front bumper. In the process, both the driver side door and head airbags deployed.

Upon further inspection, we discovered that the driver side front quarter panel rivets securing it to the engine bay were knocked out of alignment by a good 5mm. Furthermore, the driver side partitioning wall near the strut tower was torn all the way down, and the rear driver quarter panel was gouged by the trunk lid hitting the panel, all due to the sheer force of the impact. None of the panels in the car (doors, trunk, hood) were correctly aligned anymore, all from a “QC test drive.” The rear half of the car was twisted upwards and towards the passenger side a good half inch.

Does that sound like a BMW prescribed QC test drive?

So at around 8 o'clock, we met with Bill Smith, the service manager. After seeing the condition of my car, I told him flat out that I didn't want the car back, as it was obviously totalled and would never be the same. He labeled my request as totally unreasonable and even countered by asking "If you get into an accident on the track, do you automatically get a new car?" The service manager then figured out pretty quickly that Raffi was a lawyer, and advised us that we would have to speak to the owner, Peter Savage himself, and ended the meeting.

So after an hour, we were finally able to meet with Mr. Savage. However, upon learning that I had a lawyer with me, Peter Savage was not even going to meet with me, unless Raffi was not present in the meeting. It was clear to me he was trying to take advantage of his business skills, and get me to agree to whatever he put on the table. After some stern words from Raffi, Mr. Savage finally agreed to meet with us. In the meeting, I told him that all I wanted was to have them buy my car back at Blue Book retail, and give me a new M3 at invoice, and something to drive in the mean time. They could then deal with my old car as they wished. I was obviously going to absorb the difference between the used car blue book and the new car invoice, since after all, my car was not brand new. Mr. Savage, who looked very uncomfortable by now, thought that I was being unreasonable, and retorted with irrelevant questions, such as: "Let me ask you this, if you had crashed my loaner, do I automatically get a new one from you? and "I know that Andy takes this car to the track, and that he did not exactly baby the car" and, best of all, "I heard from the service guys that the tires were bald" (to which we have photographic evidence showing otherwise). Mr. Savage refused to even acknowledge liability for the joyride incident, and brushed the problem off by telling us to deal with his insurance company. Only after Raffi brought up the issue did Mr. Savage at least allow me to keep the 330xi loaner until their insurance company found us a suitable rental. He told us to pick up a copy of their insurance card from Bill Smith to file the claim, then sent us on our way and ended the meeting.

Now what would you do if you were not fortunate enough to have a lawyer friend like Raffi who also happened to be a car nut? I would be left to deal with insurance companies which, as we know, are not exactly the quickest to pay and would try to drag this matter on forever until I gave up and accepted a lowball offer. This alone is the reason why even though we settled the property damage claim in October, I feel compelled to share my story with you all.

Part II, We'll Fix Your Car:

Before we left Savage, I decided to chat with their on-site body shop. The estimator told me that based on visual inspection, the car had sustained about $20K in damage. Unfortunately for him, I have clients in the body shop business, and I also happen to be very familiar with both Ultramate and Pathways, the estimating programs for body shops. The car was totaled, without question, a tweaked front, wheel broken off, airbags, torn off bumper, and miscellaneous other damage, and he thought there was only $20K in damage?

We then left the dealership, feeling "savaged." At 2:31 PM, I got on the phone with Sania at BMW NA customer service, and told her what had happened. Sania apologized, took my complaint and filed it under my VIN number, fed us the same line of "we can't do anything because the dealer is an independent company" and ended the phone conversation. I was looking for some help and guidance from BMW NA and all I got was a bland apology.

I then called my SA and requested that the car be towed to Marco's Universal City body shop for a neutral third party estimate. Savage BMW seemed reluctant to relinquish the car, so I had to call again on 8/1 and finally the car was towed to Marcos in Universal City. I had to be firm and insist that the car be fixed elsewhere, so that there would not be any possible influence by Savage.

After 3 months of back and forth with the insurance carrier for Savage, the car was finally totalled. What would have happened to me if I didn’t know anyhing about the body shop business? I would have allowed them to fix the car for $20K and gotten a car that is basically worthless because it is now tweaked on both the front and the rear, with a severely affected resale value. To this day, however, Savage BMW and its insurance carrier insist that this was just an accident, not the result of a joyride. Now, again, if the car was ready for pick up on 7/29, how could my M3 be wrecked while the QC tech was on a "scheduled test drive" on 7/30, one day after the car was already ready for pick up? Why would my SA admit that it was a joyride? And if I didn't retain a lawyer, and didn't have any knowledge of the body shop business, I am sure that I would have been suckered into getting my car fixed, which would have taken several months, and would have ended up with a 30K mile E46 M3 with a severely tweaked frame that was allegedly "good as new."

Moral of the story? Be wary of Savage BMW.

Man I feel sorry for you. I would have gotten the statement from the person who told you it was a joy ride and then sue Savage BMW. Not only with that evidence but get some who saw it as well to help your case. Since they did call you and say your car was ready, there was no reason to drive it off the lot. Remember you can reopen a cause as long as it didn't happen 7 years ago. (USA law on suits)

[BobbiOh]

I had never seen dealerrater.com so I decided to take a look. Seems like damaging a customers car is an on going theme with them:

While my car was in the shop they damaged my tranny and deny to pay for it to be fix. Please stay away from them.

and One of the mechanics scraped my car with his torque wrench and Savage refused to admit they did it. My M5 was mint before I brought it to them, now it's got a big gash on the side.

[tierfreund]

This thread simply refuses to die :tsk: :)

[JT///M3]

the only thing that should die is Savage BMW.

[hawk2100n]

I dont like frivouls law suits, but sue their asses off. Get a bunch of angry people together and make savage feel sorry. This is totally legitimate. Thats redicilous how they made the refrences to the racing and track acticties. Sorry but racing a M3 car doesnt posses it to take jackass service rep hostage and make him drive it into a curb at 60 mph.

[justfire]

I think they should change there name to SALVAGE BMW... If it's not broken well break it for ya!!!! :rofl: :mad:

[94silverbullet]

Here is a story about a Ford Mechanic who took a Cobra out for a joyride...he lost his job after the owner found out about him posting his thrill ride in a forum!!!!!

http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/9/27/114221/261

Yeah, i remember that story. I belong to a few Mustang forums, and story was all over.

I can't read the whole post. can someone tell me the bottom line of this story. Did the original poster get screwed? is there a lawsuit? that sucks. :thumbdwn:

I think the dealer should have made right with the poster because now his name is black all over cyberspace and in the real world. :thumbdwn:

[berford]

Yeah, i remember that story. I belong to a few Mustang forums, and story was all over.

I can't read the whole post. can someone tell me the bottom line of this story. Did the original poster get screwed? is there a lawsuit? that sucks. :thumbdwn:

I think the dealer should have made right with the poster because now his name is black all over cyberspace and in the real world. :thumbdwn:
Bottom line is that he was essentially "made whole," but not without having to fight to be treated decently. Should have happened this way: Savage admits fault and fires the employee who wrecked the car. Savage (the owner) personally does everything he can to get a new M3 (with Stuka's specs) delivered as fast as humanly possible.

All Stuka actually got (initially) was resistence to making it right. Savage's bad.

[94silverbullet]

Should have happened this way: Savage admits fault and fires the employee who wrecked the car. Savage (the owner) personally does everything he can to get a new M3 (with Stuka's specs) delivered as fast as humanly possible.


I totally agree.

So did he get another M3?

[MatWiz]

Yeah, i remember that story. I belong to a few Mustang forums, and story was all over.

I can't read the whole post. can someone tell me the bottom line of this story. Did the original poster get screwed? is there a lawsuit? that sucks. :thumbdwn:

I think the dealer should have made right with the poster because now his name is black all over cyberspace and in the real world. :thumbdwn:
Bottom line is: BMW: -1, Porsche: +1.

:)

[Stuka]

I totally agree.

So did he get another M3?

Just to clarify, I was "made whole" with the assistance of an attorney. They were dragged there kicking and screaming by the attorney. :thumbdwn:

I decided to not get an M3 after the way BMWNA had decided to not participate or intervene, and voted with my wallet by going to the P car world, and got a Turbo.

[gr8330]

Just to clarify, I was "made whole" with the assistance of an attorney. They were dragged there kicking and screaming by the attorney. :thumbdwn:

I decided to not get an M3 after the way BMWNA had decided to not participate or intervene, and voted with my wallet by going to the P car world, and got a Turbo.


Excellent choice

[JT///M3]

What really sux is that Savage BMW has totally benefitted from the influx of residents from the OC and its business has actually grown tremendously. I had hoped they go to hell instead...

[Boraxo]

This is one of the all time best threads I have seen on any message board.

What I find shocking is that after many many months, and apparently dozens of emails and telephone calls, not to mention bad publicity, Savage has never publicly responded to this compaint. I guess that they hope this incident will somehow die a quiet death only to be buried deep in the web wayback machine. And really - what can you say when you screw up this badly?

From a legal perspective, it seems to me that Savage's behavior falls well beyond breach of contract and dangerously close to conversion. In simpler terms, Savage was only authorized to perform an oil service, but instead stole the car for its own use. The employer is liable for the employee's actions even if unauthorized. As a result, if this matter were ever litigated, Savage might well be found liable for damages that well excede the paltry settlement received by Stuka. California law is particularly favorable to consumers in this regard.

That being said, litigation is costly, time consuming and not without risk (as Raffi no doubt advised you) so I find it wise that you chose to resolve this matter and put it behind you. However, we owe it to you to keep this thread alive until Savage apologizes and makes amends. Until that time, there is a special place in BMW hell reserved for that dealer.

[jpmascaro]

You had every right to demand that Savage buy your car for whatever it was worth before this ridiculous accident - the law allows you to be made whole, i.e., be put back in the same position you would have been had the accident never happened.

If you couldn't get your car back in the same condition as when you dropped it off, you were entitled to the next best thing - every penny it was worth.

[gr8330]

When you look at Tom Purvis does he look like he would care about our problems? I know that’s not fare to say that but you have to agree BMWNA wont step in to help you if it thinks the dealer will be upset with them. Who is in charge...need I ask.

[SpeedFreak!]

When you look at Tom Purvis does he look like he would care about our problems? I know that’s not fare to say that but you have to agree BMWNA wont step in to help you if it thinks the dealer will be upset with them. Who is in charge...need I ask.


Yes, as a matter of fact, I think he does... and so does BMWNA. I've seen BMW do some amazing things to make things right. :thumbup:

[milobloom242]

Since dealers are coin-operated, maybe bulletin boards like bimmerfest are perceived as not yet having a major impact on business? :dunno:



What I find shocking is that after many many months, and apparently dozens of emails and telephone calls, not to mention bad publicity, Savage has never publicly responded to this compaint. I guess that they hope this incident will somehow die a quiet death only to be buried deep in the web wayback machine. And really - what can you say when you screw up this badly?

[James]

Since dealers are coin-operated, maybe bulletin boards like bimmerfest are perceived as not yet having a major impact on business? :dunno:
True. I have spoken to many BMW owners and when I mention bimmerfest their response is almost invariably, "Oh..I'm not really that into it..I just like the cars". I would be surprised if 1% of Savage's customer base know or care about sites like this.

Sad really, but what can you do :dunno:

[Motown328]

When you look at Tom Purvis does he look like he would care about our problems? I know that’s not fare to say that but you have to agree BMWNA wont step in to help you if it thinks the dealer will be upset with them. Who is in charge...need I ask.

Purves is a very cordial guy. I don't think it's fair to shank him out here. Besides, he wouldn't personally deal with the matter anyhow.

And yes, if BMW feels that a certain dealer is giving them a bad name or image, they would drop the hammer.

[LA525iT]

You had every right to demand that Savage buy your car for whatever it was worth before this ridiculous accident - the law allows you to be made whole, i.e., be put back in the same position you would have been had the accident never happened.

If you couldn't get your car back in the same condition as when you dropped it off, you were entitled to the next best thing - every penny it was worth.

Hey, I thought you posted here to get away from the law :eek:

[adgrant]

From a legal perspective, it seems to me that Savage's behavior falls well beyond breach of contract and dangerously close to conversion. In simpler terms, Savage was only authorized to perform an oil service, but instead stole the car for its own use. The employer is liable for the employee's actions even if unauthorized. As a result, if this matter were ever litigated, Savage might well be found liable for damages that well excede the paltry settlement received by Stuka. California law is particularly favorable to consumers in this regard.


The employee who stole and crashed the car appears to me to have committed a criminal act. How liable does that make his employer?

[NaTuReB0Y]

Savage BMW suck big time....I'm in the process of writing a letter of complaint.
Avoid them if you can..........

[gr8330]

Purves is a very cordial guy. I don't think it's fair to shank him out here. Besides, he wouldn't personally deal with the matter anyhow.

And yes, if BMW feels that a certain dealer is giving them a bad name or image, they would drop the hammer.

And in the Savage case...I guess the dealer was correct in the damage they did to the car. I guess correct in not wanting to make a fare offer...where is that hammer....your reply makes me wonder if you are dealer or work for BMWNA.

[iove75]

The employee who stole and crashed the car appears to me to have committed a criminal act. How liable does that make his employer?
Dealer was negligent in supervising, hiring and training his employees. Respondeat Superior. The car was driven within the scope of his employment.

[MaxTimeOff]

This is one of the all time best threads I have seen on any message board.

One of.....I dunno, a bad dealership did a bad thing, is that news??? The "Ultimate Boobfest" is THE best and most gratifying of threads! :thumbup:

[hamrt]

Just goes to show that just a dealer sells expensive cars doesn't mean they are any more reputable than the dealer that sells the cheap makes.

I have delt with Savage and I will say that they have treated me okay and the parts dept will give you 10% if you ask. I didn't buy my E46 from them, but they are the closest dealer to me. My car is due for Inspection II so I will be cautious when selecting a dealer to perform this service. I would like to keep my eye on them while they work on it, but they don't always let you do that.

It's unfortunate that things like this happen, but you did good to protect your interests. Sorry to hear that you have gone away from BMW but hope you might return. What about a new M5, HMMM???

[JT///M3]

Dealer was negligent in supervising, hiring and training his employees. Respondeat Superior. The car was driven within the scope of his employment.

Makes you wonder if he had brought a good lawyer instead of a buddy who just happened to be a lawyer (not all lawyers are equal) then would he have gotten what he deserved? I mean this sounds so open and close that it seems like it never should have even gotten to this point.

[SergioK]

...if he had brought a good lawyer instead of a buddy who just happened to be a lawyer.... :rofl:

[NaTuReB0Y]

I wrote a letter of complaint about my passenger side airbag sensor deactivating(airbag light comes on) when an adult sits in the seat.....and how they just ignored it as a computer gliche.....and the problem still persist til this day. It's been 5 months...and no one has ever contacted me.......I gave them a bunch of 1,2,3's on the customer survey with the letter. Savage BMW of Ontario is a dealer that everyone should avoid if you could. They don't take care of their customers at all. They just don't care. Honestly, I think they suck donkey balls.

[thatwouldbegrea]

I'll remember this next time I'm ready to buy a new car and I'm thinking new BMW.

BMWNA should take care of its customers, and put an end to bad service from sleazy BMW dealerships.

[ffej]

...

:) Welcome back. You should probably go away, because you won't last very long, anyway.