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View Full Version : Why is the European M-Sport Package Different from the US M-Sport Package?


pharding
10-24-2010, 08:53 AM
From the BMW press release in Munich this is what Europeans get. Notice that the suspension is the M-Sport Suspension not the Adaptive Drive Suspension that is offered in the US.

M Sports Package for the new BMW 5 Series Sedan and the new BMW 5 Series Touring.

The M Sports Package for the new BMW 5 Series Saloon and for the new BMW 5 Series Touring will be presented simultaneously in September 2010. The package, which was developed by the BMW M GmbH, comprises components that have been specifically adapted to match the suspension, the aerodynamics, and the exterior and interior design of each model. The M sports suspension, M aerodynamics package and 18-inch M light alloys featuring a double spoke design contribute towards enhanced driving dynamics and an exceptionally powerful appearance. Moreover, optionally available features include 19-inch M light alloys as well as an M rear spoiler for the saloon.

Sports seats featuring Alcantara / fabric upholstery especially developed for the M Sports Package give the interior a particularly sporting ambience. The upholstery’s exclusive character is underlined by high-grade materials, contrasting seams and the M emblem applied to the seat. Further interior features included in the M Sports Package comprise, inter alia, an M leather-clad steering wheel, an M gear lever knob, the M footrest, an anthracite BMW Individual roof lining and M aluminium hexagon interior trim strips.

jimefam
10-24-2010, 09:16 AM
From the BMW press release in Munich this is what Europeans get. Notice that the suspension is the M-Sport Suspension not the Adaptive Drive Suspension that is offered in the US.

M Sports Package for the new BMW 5 Series Sedan and the new BMW 5 Series Touring.

The M Sports Package for the new BMW 5 Series Saloon and for the new BMW 5 Series Touring will be presented simultaneously in September 2010. The package, which was developed by the BMW M GmbH, comprises components that have been specifically adapted to match the suspension, the aerodynamics, and the exterior and interior design of each model. The M sports suspension, M aerodynamics package and 18-inch M light alloys featuring a double spoke design contribute towards enhanced driving dynamics and an exceptionally powerful appearance. Moreover, optionally available features include 19-inch M light alloys as well as an M rear spoiler for the saloon.

Sports seats featuring Alcantara / fabric upholstery especially developed for the M Sports Package give the interior a particularly sporting ambience. The upholstery’s exclusive character is underlined by high-grade materials, contrasting seams and the M emblem applied to the seat. Further interior features included in the M Sports Package comprise, inter alia, an M leather-clad steering wheel, an M gear lever knob, the M footrest, an anthracite BMW Individual roof lining and M aluminium hexagon interior trim strips.

Yes they get a real Msport suspension that is what you were expecting to receive here. It is firmer and no adjustments between comfort and sport or none of that!! just Sport all the time! BMWNA in its infinite knowledge decided that we americans wouldn't want that option in sufficient numbers so we got stuck with DHP. The Msport also sits 10MM lower.

BimmerUKF10
10-24-2010, 09:22 AM
At least you guys get the option of xDrive. I'd swap that for M Sport suspension any day!

pharding
10-24-2010, 09:36 AM
My 550i is overall a great car. However I much prefer the M-Sport Suspension that is offered in Europe and I had in my E60 M-Sport over my current Dynamic Handling Package. DHP could be improved if the driver could dial it in to his her preference and have it go to that setting by default.

johnbmw6
10-24-2010, 09:47 AM
Cars are built different in europe to the US offerings. Better build and suspension I am told.
Better build quality in general, this is what BMW uk told me.

pharding
10-24-2010, 10:15 AM
BMW doesn't tell the assembly staff "Here is a US bound car, go ahead and back off on the build quality". "Here is one bound for the UK. They leveled Dresden when WWII was all but over. Build it better than the US but not as good as Germany." I question what BMW UK said. However BMW NA clearly makes some curious choices about which options to offer here.

jimefam
10-24-2010, 10:21 AM
At least you guys get the option of xDrive. I'd swap that for M Sport suspension any day!

This is why having choices is so important. You couldn't make me take xdrive as an option if you threw it in for free! It's all about needs and desires. I would've gladly paid more to have a proper sport suspension.

johnbmw6
10-24-2010, 11:07 AM
BMW doesn't tell the assembly staff "Here is a US bound car, go ahead and back off on the build quality". "Here is one bound for the UK. They leveled Dresden when WWII was all but over. Build it better than the US but not as good as Germany." I question what BMW UK said. However BMW NA clearly makes some curious choices about which options to offer here.I thought this "some statement" also, when I questioned this they replied, most of the cars for the US were made in the US.
Those that were not had a different build!! ie; suspension and interior finish!. Work that one out:dunno:

jimefam
10-24-2010, 11:44 AM
Up until very recently I believe only the X5 was built here and even then some of those X5's were exported so they would again have to tell the workers here to be extra diligent with those as they weren't for us lousy Americans! Doubt that.

johnbmw6
10-24-2010, 01:32 PM
Up until very recently I believe only the X5 was built here and even then some of those X5's were exported so they would again have to tell the workers here to be extra diligent with those as they weren't for us lousy Americans! Doubt that. Hang on Buddy no one's saying anyones "Lousy". Just the build is different, no offence intended.
PS) X6 is also built in the US.

Munich77
10-24-2010, 01:34 PM
Cars are built different in europe to the US offerings. Better build and suspension I am told.
Better build quality in general, this is what BMW uk told me.

No it is the same build quality but different suspensions. In Germany they have better pavement than here - combine that with high speed and you definitely appreciate a true sports suspension.

johnbmw6
10-24-2010, 01:36 PM
No it is the same build quality but different suspensions. In Germany they have better pavement than here - combine that with high speed and you definitely appreciate a true sports suspension.
Aaah right.:thumbup:

jimefam
10-24-2010, 01:37 PM
Hang on Buddy no one's saying anyones "Lousy". Just the build is different, no offence intended.
PS) X6 is also built in the US.

I know, I didn't think that. Also the X6 is why I said up until recently and now they will begin to build the X3.

johnbmw6
10-24-2010, 01:43 PM
I know, I didn't think that. Also the X6 is why I said up until recently and now they will begin to build the X3. Now I come to think of it I had a new X6 35DS :) and there was nothing wrong with that build!!!, I only found out recently they were made in the US, rubbish's BMW uk's knowledge.

RNarang
10-29-2010, 01:32 PM
Cars are built different in europe to the US offerings. Better build and suspension I am told.
Better build quality in general, this is what BMW uk told me.

WTF are you talking about. That is the dumbest statement I have read all week.

Edit: Re-read the post and saw that you clarified the above. What you meant to say is that american cars are optioned are differently

james18322
10-29-2010, 02:04 PM
Hi Guys.
I too am considering a 2011 5 series.
I wanted to add to this conversation about European and american quality differences.
Having lived in the UK until 1999, I was amazed that same models felt differently in Us an UK.
My first experience was with a S class MB at a dealership. The front windows were half open. The vibrated and clattered.
I tried this with a BMW as well. Not as bad as the MB but Certainly a lack of solidness was felt compared to European models.
We test drove both and I could feel the difference. My friends also confirmed my suspicions. If you haven't driven a european market BMW or MB, it might be hard to believe it. But it is true

solstice
10-29-2010, 02:09 PM
My car has dhp but I have zero use for it. I always have it in Sports mode (chassi only) and use DS mode when I need some extra punch. This exactly how I had my E60, sports suspension and using DS mode when I needed faster throttle response. The difference is that Sports mode in the F10 with dhp is not nearly as taut and connected as the sports tuned suspension in the E60. I feel that I paid $2700 for ars. An ars that has proven itself to be unreliable. dhp is not a good change/improvement imo. More money for less value.

johnbmw6
10-29-2010, 03:10 PM
WTF are you talking about. That is the dumbest statement I have read all week.

Edit: Re-read the post and saw that you clarified the above. What you meant to say is that american cars are optioned are differently I think you really need to drive both US and European cars............ they are very different in "feel" or build ; sorry to offend:dunno:

johnbmw6
10-29-2010, 03:13 PM
Hi Guys.
I too am considering a 2011 5 series.
I wanted to add to this conversation about European and american quality differences.
Having lived in the UK until 1999, I was amazed that same models felt differently in Us an UK.
My first experience was with a S class MB at a dealership. The front windows were half open. The vibrated and clattered.
I tried this with a BMW as well. Not as bad as the MB but Certainly a lack of solidness was felt compared to European models.
We test drove both and I could feel the difference. My friends also confirmed my suspicions. If you haven't driven a european market BMW or MB, it might be hard to believe it. But it is true I tried to say this very thing without offending anyone, but I to have been told the very same from many people who drive both UK and US cars of the same manufacturer and model.:dunno:

james18322
10-29-2010, 04:01 PM
John, it is very hard to explain and understand it. Only if you have driven the cars back to back.
I can also understand why they may skimp on certain things.
I believe it is more expensive to conform to US regulations. Also we pay less for our cars here in the US. This may be the reason why we get slighty less quality in our builds.
It's just my two cents

raleedy
10-29-2010, 04:14 PM
Americans are touchy about their "exceptionalism" and easily offended. The harsh truth is that the roads in the US are of such poor quality that BMW sports or M Sport suspension, coupled with big wheels and low-profile tires, tends to generate a fair number of complaints about bent wheels and suspension parts. I think with the newer models, for the US market (maybe Canada too, for all I know) BMW is taking the easy way out.

RNarang
10-29-2010, 04:47 PM
John, it is very hard to explain and understand it. Only if you have driven the cars back to back.
This may be the reason why we get slighty less quality in our builds.
It's just my two cents

I was in Munich this month for the ED program and a tour of the factory. US and European cars are built on the same assembly line. There is no difference in quality or workmanship.

DXK
10-29-2010, 04:50 PM
I was in Munich this month for the ED program and a tour of the factory. US and European cars are built on the same assembly line. There is no difference in quality.
Before the visit by the Americans, they hide the American assembly line so we assume we get the same cars:)

DXK
10-29-2010, 04:55 PM
John, it is very hard to explain and understand it. Only if you have driven the cars back to back.
I can also understand why they may skimp on certain things.
I believe it is more expensive to conform to US regulations. Also we pay less for our cars here in the US. This may be the reason why we get slighty less quality in our builds.
It's just my two cents

Ah, ever heard of VAT and other taxes over there? In Norway, Holland and some other places the cars cost twice as much due to taxes. Also, they sell many more cars here, so they compensate on volume.

Needsdecaf
10-29-2010, 05:10 PM
John, it is very hard to explain and understand it. Only if you have driven the cars back to back.
I can also understand why they may skimp on certain things.
I believe it is more expensive to conform to US regulations. Also we pay less for our cars here in the US. This may be the reason why we get slighty less quality in our builds.
It's just my two cents

We don't get less quality in our builds.

Interested
10-29-2010, 05:12 PM
My car has dhp but I have zero use for it. I always have it in Sports mode (chassi only) and use DS mode when I need some extra punch. This exactly how I had my E60, sports suspension and using DS mode when I needed faster throttle response. The difference is that Sports mode in the F10 with dhp is not nearly as taut and connected as the sports tuned suspension in the E60. I feel that I paid $2700 for ars. An ars that has proven itself to be unreliable. dhp is not a good change/improvement imo. More money for less value.

All of the posts I have seen you make about the F10, are negative. Why did you buy it? :dunno:

solstice
10-29-2010, 05:16 PM
All of the posts I have seen you make about the F10, are negative. Why did you buy it? :dunno:

You'r not looking close enough. I have made many positive remarks on the car but a car that breaks down and disappoints in many crucial areas that was not obvious at a test drive is hard to constantly high-five.

I also owned a handful of bmws and none have disappointed in driving dynamics or quality, well the hpfp issue was not good but it was a one time fix on my car. I test drove the F10 that was available,it did not have zsp or dhp which was said to add the sportiness the test car was lacking. Was it reckless to assume that bmw would deliver as they always had in the past and that those packages would include a proper sports seat, sport steering wheel, sport suspension and a sporty steering feel? Maybe.

james18322
10-29-2010, 07:11 PM
Unless you have driven the European market vehicle (not ED) and compare with US market one you won't understand. Next time you are in Europe, rent a car and the come home and drive one here. You will understand. If I hadn't experienced this myself I too would disagree.

johnbmw6
10-30-2010, 01:02 AM
John, it is very hard to explain and understand it. Only if you have driven the cars back to back.
I can also understand why they may skimp on certain things.
I believe it is more expensive to conform to US regulations. Also we pay less for our cars here in the US. This may be the reason why we get slighty less quality in our builds.
It's just my two cents I think "price you pay" is the answer here, we here in the UK are being "fleeced" tax wise and we are fast getting fed up with it.
We pay £1/ Per $1 here and more, I looked on the BMW configuration web sites for US and UK and options are set out much differently!!!
I spoke to a chap thats just come back from the german factory and he was told that "Batches" of cars are put together and built for different regions/ countrys, this would explain the changes in biuld IMO.:(

james18322
10-30-2010, 02:32 AM
DKX, even without taxes luxury vehicles are more expensive in Europe. Go online and price a similar vehicle and see. Why do you think some features are released late in the Us?

pharding
10-30-2010, 03:31 AM
In my opinion what happens is that BMW responds to the perceived specific needs of each market. It appears that BMW dialed down the sport factor with the F10, perhaps not intentionally, as part of a desire to appeal to a broader market. Couple that with the consequences of a larger, heavier F10, unintended consequences of a new front suspension, economizing, and you end up with an F10 that is less sporty than what we have had in the past. I drove a loaner F10 535 today with standard steering and the base suspension. The steering issues that one reads so much about are coming from those that purchased/test drove cars with standard steering. The steering is vague, sloppy, imprecise when driving straight. On this loaner it is very un-BMW like. On my F10 550i with the interactive steering, the steering is much better, not quite perfect, but fine with slight room for improvement. I thought that for someone looking for a non-sport BMW, the loaner 535 with base suspension was fine. It felt like that version of a BMW. On my 550 with DHP and IAS, Comfort setting was grossly soft for a BMW, Normal was too soft, Sport and Sport+ were close to fine. For me it is annoying that every time that I get in the car that I have to adjust the DHP out of normal to get a proper BMW Sport Suspension feel. The steering turning of the rear wheels works well and induces sportiness and agility at speed.

In comparison to my 2008 M-Sport 550i E60 with its M-Sport Suspension which as I recall was a beefed up version of the Sport Suspension I prefer that suspension which was simple and consistent and very sporty. When I picked up the car in Germany in 2008 it actually felt too firm, However once the car was broken in, that suspension was incredibly perfect. That car was a true BMW Sports Sedan. I suspect that what I would really like as the perfect sport version of the F10 would be the M-Sport Suspension that is offered in Europe and not the US; IAS that is dialed in better or the old fashioned hydraulic steering; M-Sport Steering Wheel; 20 way seats with the side bolsters. While we are talking my idealized F10 IMO the M-Sport front end on the F10 is too aggressive looking. It is the right idea, but it is just too much and should be dialed down, but that is a very subjective comment coming from this architect. The M-Sport front end on the E60 was much better. Also the F10 with the Sport Components needs to be lower. The car has too much space above the wheels.

The F10 is a great car with many amazing qualities. Beautiful, refined exterior. Amazing cabin with great ergonomics, spacious, incredible refinement, great options and features that overall the cabin dramatically better than the E60. However the sport factor has room for improvement.

DXK
10-30-2010, 05:57 AM
DKX, even without taxes luxury vehicles are more expensive in Europe. Go online and price a similar vehicle and see. Why do you think some features are released late in the Us?
As I said, it has to do with volume. One makes money on margin or volume. In Germany, for example, if you take away VAT, the prices would be almost the same.
Also, it depends on market strength and influence. BMW USA, as a biggest market, has a lot of influence as to the pricing and options we get; the smaller markets don't have that.
And don't look at prices in euros and then translate into dollars, as people who buy cars get paid in Euros

DXK
10-30-2010, 06:50 AM
Another point: the manufacturer makes most money on larger cars, such as 5 and 7 series and SUV. Well, they consume lots of gas and it's 3 times as expensive in Europe; guess why? So most cars in europe are small, and BMW makes less money per car.

Goldie Gee
04-08-2011, 10:54 PM
I've just taken delivery of an F10; 520d M Sport. Noticed there was no M Sport aluminium footrest, but just the plain plastic footrest found in the SE version. Double checked the UK car configurator website, and sure enough, the 'dashboard' picture view shows an M Sport aluminium footrest.

Phoned BMW UK, only to be told that for the UK market - we don't get the nice footrest! They double checked by looking at some new F10 M Sports they had in the showroom - sure enough - plain plastic footrests.

Why on earth would the UK be any different to the rest of Europe / the world? Do they think everyone in the UK drives with slippery soles on the bottom of the their shoes or something?

Odd - real odd!

dominoaz
04-09-2011, 01:27 AM
It is my understanding that it was only until recently that X5's were assembled exclusively in South Carolina, as were all Z4's. X3's were farmed out to Graz, Austria. Now, it seems that Z4 production has moved to Europe and all X3's and X5's are assembled in South Carolina. The majority of 3 series cars are assembled in Europe for European sale, but a significant number of 3's are assembled in South Africa and are sold here in the US, as well as other countries. Assembled is a key word here. As far as I know, engines and other drive system components are European made and sent to the various foreign assembly plants. One exception I note is that Z4 automatics were a General Motors product, built to BMW specs. Don't know about the current Z4, but my 2007 trans is definitely a GM product.

Given that BMW's are near totally roboticly assembled (and painted), and drive systems are exclusively of European manufacture, it is hard to believe, notwithstanding option differences from country to country, that there is a recognizable difference in build quality from assembly plant to assembly plant. Unfortunately, this theory applies to faults as well. E.g., paint finish on BMW's, regardless of assembly location, is sub-par across the product line when compared to other marques.

Was Auch immer
04-09-2011, 06:19 AM
Americans are touchy about their "exceptionalism" and easily offended. The harsh truth is that the roads in the US are of such poor quality that BMW sports or M Sport suspension, coupled with big wheels and low-profile tires, tends to generate a fair number of complaints about bent wheels and suspension parts. I think with the newer models, for the US market (maybe Canada too, for all I know) BMW is taking the easy way out.

I'll second that. Germans speak very directly with no doubt about their intent. Here in the USA we beat around the Bush until it sounds like Obama :angel: Nobody has a clue what you really think !!

chrischeung
04-09-2011, 06:37 AM
I think the roads are overall much smoother and better maintained in Europe than the USA. I certainly wouldn't enjoy the M-sport suspension on some of the poor roads I routinely drive.

Personal opinion only.

dunderhi
04-09-2011, 07:46 AM
Do F10 M-Sports in Europe come with mandatory RFTs? If not, then a firmer suspension is in order.

Tore_s
04-09-2011, 08:32 AM
Ah, ever heard of VAT and other taxes over there? In Norway, Holland and some other places the cars cost twice as much due to taxes. Also, they sell many more cars here, so they compensate on volume.

In Norway I paid 166k USD for my 2010 525da F10, and I didn't even order it with all the extra's that is available.... A 550i xdrive will cost me 369k USD with all the extra stuff.... And in Denmark it's even more expensive!!!!!

Tore_s
04-09-2011, 08:49 AM
I think the roads are overall much smoother and better maintained in Europe than the USA. I certainly wouldn't enjoy the M-sport suspension on some of the poor roads I routinely drive.

Personal opinion only.

The roads in Norway are very bad! It Has Been a great lack of maintenance and construction of new broad highways! Now we use about $ 2 billion a year on building new roads and repairing old ....

In Germany, however, the roads are very good, Especially the autobahn, which has no speed limit requires that the road has a very high standard. With speeds exceeding 300 km / h, it must be good

swajames
04-09-2011, 10:59 AM
The notion that BMW somehow builds the cars differently (and to an inferior standard) for the US market is utter nonsense.

Titanflux
04-09-2011, 12:41 PM
The notion that BMW somehow builds the cars differently (and to an inferior standard) for the US market is utter nonsense.
Maybe not inferior - a matter of opinion, but certainly built differently.... Mostly due to specific US regulations...

Wheel arch reflectors
Lack of flashing emergency braking lights
Airbag specs are different - higher likelihood of driver/passenger injury resulting from bag deployment - and facial/hand/arm burns more likely
High performance diesels need separate additives
Totally different option packages and inability to custom spec options
Different suspension offerings and passive suspension settings - and I strongly suspect different software settings applied for steering, and suspension where DHP applies
Tyres supplied frequently different

In the UK only recently have you been able to delete the M Sport suspension from M Sport package models - this is due to the worsening roads and the realisation that German roads are far better looked after.

It's all about tailoring for individual markets within a global marketplace.

swajames
04-09-2011, 02:53 PM
Maybe not inferior - a matter of opinion, but certainly built differently.... Mostly due to specific US regulations...

Wheel arch reflectors
Lack of flashing emergency braking lights
Airbag specs are different - higher likelihood of driver/passenger injury resulting from bag deployment - and facial/hand/arm burns more likely
High performance diesels need separate additives
Totally different option packages and inability to custom spec options
Different suspension offerings and passive suspension settings - and I strongly suspect different software settings applied for steering, and suspension where DHP applies
Tyres supplied frequently different

In the UK only recently have you been able to delete the M Sport suspension from M Sport package models - this is due to the worsening roads and the realisation that German roads are far better looked after.

It's all about tailoring for individual markets within a global marketplace.

The rather obvious point being made was that the cars were built no differently in terms of build quality... Cars will, of course, be configured differently based on user options or local regulations. None of this means that US-destined cars are somehow built to a lower standard that those destined for Europe.