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solstice
10-29-2010, 11:20 AM
So I got my 535i back after two weeks in the shop to repair ars. Now there is a weird noise and sensation when turning to the right a low speed. Kind of like a farting noise with a grinding sensation in the steering wheel. A bit like when a wheel bearing is shot but it's only noticeable at low speeds and not always. I think I saw a post of someone having a similar problem. Anyone who have some insights? I guess the car is going back to the shop. :tsk:

raleedy
10-29-2010, 12:39 PM
That sounds scary. If the sound and the sensation are coming from the steering wheel itself, I would suspect a defective "clock spring" ***8212; the piece that provides electrical contact between the wheel, as it moves, and the stationary part of the steering column. That happened to me once on a much older BMW, and actually caught the steering wheel and impeded its movement. Dangerous.

solstice
10-29-2010, 01:10 PM
That sounds scary. If the sound and the sensation are coming from the steering wheel itself, I would suspect a defective "clock spring" - the piece that provides electrical contact between the wheel, as it moves, and the stationary part of the steering column. That happened to me once on a much older BMW, and actually caught the steering wheel and impeded its movement. Dangerous.

Thanks raleedy. It's hard to say. The sensation can be felt in the steering wheel but I guess it could come from a suspension component as well. Perhaps it's even something wrong with the new ars pump that reverberates through the steering.

brandonw
10-31-2010, 07:49 AM
+1 here. Add me to this list. I took delivery of my 535i M-Sport on 10-22-10 and noticed this problem with in two days. My car hasn't had any other problems or been in the shop since I took delivery.

I first noticed this when maneuvering in a parking garage, thus driving slow and turning. It is definitely a grinding noise and it can be felt as though it is underneath the car. I can only duplicate it at slow speed when turning, more so when beginning to accelerate out of a turn. Its nothing I believe in the steering wheel as I don't feel it through there. All passengers in the car notice this as it can be felt through out the car. The best way I can describe it to some feeling is that if anyone has or has ever ridden a Segway too fast, the "stick shake" warning you get, that's it.

I want to contact my dealer this week, but I want to get some more info first if possible. I know there have to bee many others out there. It cant be just Soltice and I.

raleedy
10-31-2010, 08:08 AM
Thanks raleedy. It's hard to say. The sensation can be felt in the steering wheel but I guess it could come from a suspension component as well. Perhaps it's even something wrong with the new ars pump that reverberates through the steering.

Just to clarify, the problem I described is noticed when the steering wheel turns and is not associated with movement of the car. What you are describing sounds like something else.

solstice
10-31-2010, 09:49 AM
Just to clarify, the problem I described is noticed when the steering wheel turns and is not associated with movement of the car. What you are describing sounds like something else.

Yes, I think it's something else. Since this first appeared on my car after my ars was repaired I suspect it's the ars pump that causes the grinding vibrations. Perhaps airbubbles in the system or the pump is no good.

I'm bringing the car in to have this checked out on Tuesday. I'll let you know what the outcome is.

Joe F.
10-31-2010, 07:55 PM
My car is doing the same thing. Just got it this saturday what a bummer.....The car is making a horrible grinding noise when i turn the wheel to turn at low speed. Any Input would be appreciated from the experienced bmw owners in this forum on what to do.
My car is a new 550i with sport and dynamic handling and pretty much loaded up with all the goodies.

solstice
10-31-2010, 10:09 PM
My car is doing the same thing. Just got it this saturday what a bummer.....The car is making a horrible grinding noise when i turn the wheel to turn at low speed. Any Input would be appreciated from the experienced bmw owners in this forum on what to do.
My car is a new 550i with sport and dynamic handling and pretty much loaded up with all the goodies.

Bring it in for service. It's now pretty easy to reproduce on my car. Anytime it has been unused for an hour or more it makes the grinding thing in more than 50% of the first couple of 90 degree + turns from stand still. Pulling out of a parking lot or turning in an intersection from a stop light it is easy to reproduce the grinding. To hear the "farting" noise it's just to open the window and drive around in a parking garage. It's absolutely not the sound from tires rubbing against the road surface, this is from another source and the grinding sensation is significant. The grinding is also there independent of road surface codition: wet or dry does not matter. Bring your car in and let a tech drive it, I will on Tuesday since there's definately something wrong. My car did not have this issue prior to the new ars pump was installed.

sambb
11-01-2010, 02:16 AM
yet another steering issue... bmw are you listening?

chrischeung
11-01-2010, 07:10 AM
bmw are you listening?

I can imagine all these engineers in Munich calling their IT departments since they think their browsers have stripped out an audio attachment.

kocsis
11-01-2010, 07:24 AM
I am convinced BMW Munich is still in the 20th century and is not monitoring this and the other website. If they were, they would occassionally post something....

chrischeung
11-01-2010, 09:08 AM
That is not true. There have been numerous postings of folks having mentioned that BMW corporate has noticed and does monitor the board. They just consider it unproductive to respond through the board - since they will likely get into personal and direct communications that they are unlikely to win. Plus they are likely not staffed sufficiently to use this as a regular, official communications channel. Instead, they'll respond more broadly through channels like Roundel, press releases, product updates etc.

Also for those who think that BMW doesn't monitor this, instead of complaining, why not call their 1-800 number? Or talk to their SA?

pharding
11-01-2010, 09:54 AM
BMW responding to posts on message boards would not be appropriate or practical. They need the eyes and ears of the dealership service staff. BMW provides fine technical service in general. Of course there are always exceptions to that, but those are quite small in number.

Emilner
11-01-2010, 11:12 AM
It's a long shot, but do you think it could be the tire rubbing on something? That would only happen at slow speeds when the wheel could be turned the most...

solstice
11-01-2010, 11:14 AM
It's a long shot, but do you think it could be the tire rubbing on something? That would only happen at slow speeds when the wheel could be turned the most...

No, no chance. This is more like metal against metal grinding. If it wasn't an rwd car I would have guessed an issue with the differential but it really feels like the grinding is from the front end. I suspect ars.

Emilner
11-01-2010, 11:26 AM
No, no chance. This is more like metal against metal grinding. If it wasn't an rwd car I would have guessed an issue with the differential but it really feels like the grinding is from the front end. I suspect ars.

Gotcha, figured sometimes the obvious things get overlooked.

Seems like RWD and AWD people are mentioning it. I could see if it was an AWD problem...

brandonw
11-01-2010, 11:31 AM
Bring it in for service. It's now pretty easy to reproduce on my car. Anytime it has been unused for an hour or more it makes the grinding thing in more than 50% of the first couple of 90 degree + turns from stand still. Pulling out of a parking lot or turning in an intersection from a stop light it is easy to reproduce the grinding. To hear the "farting" noise it's just to open the window and drive around in a parking garage. It's absolutely not the sound from tires rubbing against the road surface, this is from another source and the grinding sensation is significant. The grinding is also there independent of road surface codition: wet or dry does not matter. Bring your car in and let a tech drive it, I will on Tuesday since there's definately something wrong. My car did not have this issue prior to the new ars pump was installed.

Solstice,

I look forward to hearing what you learn from your dealers visit Tuesday. I do not know what an ars pump is, but to my knowledge this has not been touched on my car, as I have not had it in the dealer since i took delivery last week. Thanks for sharing what you learn.

solstice
11-01-2010, 11:52 AM
Solstice,

I look forward to hearing what you learn from your dealers visit Tuesday. I do not know what an ars pump is, but to my knowledge this has not been touched on my car, as I have not had it in the dealer since i took delivery last week. Thanks for sharing what you learn.

We probably have the same issue even if your's haven't been touched. The service guys at my dealer are good so I don't think it's a sloppy job more likely it's a defect with one of the new components they installed and you have a similar defect. I guess it could also be something like insufficient fluid level or wrong fluid type. Hopefully we'll know more in the coming days when they check my car out.

cardsmd
11-01-2010, 06:08 PM
mine too is making this noise. 2011 550 GT xdrive with active suspension. taking it in wednesday. there is supposedly a TSB for a similar problem on the 7 series. we need to figure this out b/c its really annoying. my car has 100 miles on it. did it the minute i left the dealership.

sambb
11-01-2010, 06:55 PM
do you think it is related somehow to the new BMW steering, which other enthusiasts have commented on?

solstice
11-01-2010, 11:11 PM
I wish I hadn't searched for this issue...not very encouraging stuff
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201176&page=1

solstice
11-01-2010, 11:15 PM
Question, does everyone who experiences this issue have the dynamic handling package?

joshbw
11-02-2010, 04:45 AM
This sounds like the same problem I have had for 3 years on my E60. Now and again at low speeds when I turn the wheel hard to the right I hear that sound. I spoke to my dealer about it and they looked but couldn't pin it down. Being that it only happened when doing low speed tight maneuvering I never really cared, but like I said I have had that exact thing on my E60 for 3 years now.....

Needsdecaf
11-02-2010, 04:51 AM
yet another steering issue... bmw are you listening?

Are you going to reach a point where you add something to the forum besides ranting on the steering?

Not that you don't have a right to voice your opinion, but ever single one of your posts is in some form calling out the steering on the F10. Just saying.

brandonw
11-02-2010, 05:00 AM
Question, does everyone who experiences this issue have the dynamic handling package?

Yes. I have it as part of the M-Sport package.

solstice
11-02-2010, 08:01 AM
This sounds like the same problem I have had for 3 years on my E60. Now and again at low speeds when I turn the wheel hard to the right I hear that sound. I spoke to my dealer about it and they looked but couldn't pin it down. Being that it only happened when doing low speed tight maneuvering I never really cared, but like I said I have had that exact thing on my E60 for 3 years now.....

joshbw, do you have ars on your E60 550i ( any kind of bmw sports pkg. )?

pharding
11-02-2010, 08:21 AM
I have have DHP and IAS and my 550i is fine without any noises.

solstice
11-02-2010, 08:28 AM
pharding, this is not a problem on all ars equipped cars. I had ars on my E60 and never a peep, I also did not have it on my F10 until they repaired my ars. Though I suspect this is a fault in the ars system somewhere. Either a defect in the pump or incorrect fluid or fluid level. These are guesses since my grinding started immediately after the ars repair and was not present ever before that. It could of course also be that something other than ars was mounted incorrectly. We'll see what the techs say but it is definately interresting to know if ars is a common denominator among the cars that experience this symptom.

solstice
11-02-2010, 01:35 PM
Back from the shop. The grinding did not show up during the techs short test drive. Not surprising since I usually notice it shortly into the first drive of the day and not at full operation temperature that the car was at when I brought it in. Nevertheless a 3h inspection of potential sources was performed but no obvious cause could be found. The car is deemed safe to drive and it was decided that if the problem persists I'll leave the car overnight so that the tech can do a test drive from cold. We also discussed that maybe this is a "break-in" of the system after all the flushing and replacements of fluids that some replacement from the filler can takes place when the oil is cool and "smaller" and that it can cause some pump reverberations until the system is fully settled. We'll see. To the others that has observed this issue on their cars please keep this thread updated with your progress.

brandonw
11-02-2010, 01:49 PM
Thanks for follow-up Solstice. I have not taken my car in. I wish they had been able to identify the problem of course form your visit.

From me driving today at lunch doing some errands, I noticed this several times. Mostly while maneuvering in parking lots (the slow speeds, regular acceleration and turning). It seems when I try to reproduce it, I cant. But more so today, I am thinking it has to do when the weight of the entire car gives to the right or left, as if something that should be staying in place is swaying, which could explain the link to the steering. I really think this is something to do with the drive shaft. When it occurs, its as if something turning is rubbing something else and this vibrating the rest of the car. I can feel it pretty well from the center console when it occurs and only slightly through the steering wheel. :dunno: and :mad:

solstice
11-02-2010, 02:41 PM
brandonw I also think it's when the car shifts weight from side to side which would make the suspension the main suspect. ars is there to counter act the body roll and is a very powerful system with a lot of pressure. It can hoist the car about 8 inches from side to side when manipulated manually. When your car shifts weight ars opens valves and pressurizes the side that needs to take on more weight to stiffen it and counter act body roll. If the pump runs dry or with air bubbles it could likely give severe vibrations and grinding noises. It could of course also be something else, it's just that my car did not have this issue that sounds exactly like yours until ars was repaired.

The ars pump is mounted on the engine if that could match up with what you suspect is where the source of the grinding can originate from.

brandonw
11-03-2010, 11:06 AM
Thanks for follow-up Solstice. I have not taken my car in. I wish they had been able to identify the problem of course form your visit.

From me driving today at lunch doing some errands, I noticed this several times. Mostly while maneuvering in parking lots (the slow speeds, regular acceleration and turning). It seems when I try to reproduce it, I cant. But more so today, I am thinking it has to do when the weight of the entire car gives to the right or left, as if something that should be staying in place is swaying, which could explain the link to the steering. I really think this is something to do with the drive shaft. When it occurs, its as if something turning is rubbing something else and this vibrating the rest of the car. I can feel it pretty well from the center console when it occurs and only slightly through the steering wheel. :dunno: and :mad:

To add a little more info... Where seem to get it more regularly is say, you are stopped at a light and wanting to make a right turn, thus you might have the wheel slightly already turned. The road you are stopped on has a slight incline - boom, grinding. As I am trying to notice it more, at different times, it feels like the grinding is in more than once place on and off, again as though something is loose.

solstice
11-03-2010, 12:45 PM
To add a little more info... Where seem to get it more regularly is say, you are stopped at a light and wanting to make a right turn, thus you might have the wheel slightly already turned. The road you are stopped on has a slight incline - boom, grinding. As I am trying to notice it more, at different times, it feels like the grinding is in more than once place on and off, again as though something is loose.

Exactly like mine. I have a traffic light on my way to work at a slight incline. Here I stop to first make an almost 180 left turn up a hill followed by a 120 degree right hander, followed by another traffic light and a 90 degree right turn, all up hill. I get the grinding every morning at this place. First I just observed it when doing the right turns but today it was at the initial left turn after the traffic light. I have observed it at a few other locations as when pulling out of a parking lot on Saturday but now when I think about it I think my car was parked at a slight incline at the parking lot. Time to put the stop/parked at an incline followed by a turn theory to the test a bit more.

biggerkahuna
11-03-2010, 01:38 PM
This is bittersweet. Sad this is a problem but glad that it's not only me. Ive taken my 550i in twice already and was never able to get them to hear the sound thus not getting the problem fixed. Sounds very similar to when my differential had an issue on my E60 M5. It's going in again this weekend. Now I have more possibilities. Thanks guys!

solstice
11-03-2010, 03:23 PM
I made some attempts to reproduce today at lunch time. No success. It's more to it than just to stop at an incline and then accelerate through a sharp turn. If you manage to reproduce it with any regularity or notice another factors that could contribute please post them.

brandonw
11-03-2010, 05:36 PM
I had to drive through a large parking deck today and I encountered it several times. Plus just drive in the crowded city, stop and stop, lots of turns and lots of stop and go acceleration. I guess I am going to have to abduct a service tech and just drive around until it happens. Errrr....

solstice
11-05-2010, 09:49 AM
Any updates on this issue? Has anyone else been to the dealer or managed to find a way to reproduce it with a good level of regularity? This issue is seriosuly annoying, yesterday I counted to ten occasions in a short time frame during my morning commute . I then went back later in the day and re-traced the same route without a single occurance. This morning it was back again. On my car it seems to be most frequent within the first 30 minutes of a drive that begins with a cold car. However I don't feel confident that I will manage to reproduce it at another dealer visit at this point of time, I need a more reliable way to reproduce first. Please let me know if you observe something useful or have feedback from a dealer visit.

kocsis
11-05-2010, 09:58 AM
what about recording the noise on your iPhone or something?

1HOT BMR
11-05-2010, 10:04 AM
Have you thought of recording it and sending the sound file to your tech?

I just saw the post above mine :D

solstice
11-05-2010, 10:13 AM
Have you thought of recording it and sending the sound file to your tech?

I just saw the post above mine :D

Good idea. Though I'm not sure how identifiable it will be without the vibrations. My phone is not an Iphone or anything closely as sophisticated but it can record audio so I'll make a recording and see if the issue can be heard.

rudegar
11-05-2010, 04:53 PM
I have the same grinding noise most noticable in parking lot when cold more left than right. I have 550i without active steering

brandonw
11-06-2010, 06:37 AM
This is so frustrating. As soon as I think I an replicate it, I cant. Mine seems to not be as frequent as it used to be. But then at certain time, there is goes. Still most noticeable in a parking lot, parking garage, starting from a slight incline etc...

I am glad (but sorry as well) that a few others are starting to report this issue. Though, I am surprised that there are not more. It seems thus far, its not limited to any one model. I cant tell the common thing we all have, maybe Dynamic Handling Package with or without M-Sport? Maybe the lack of other reports is the week of production, maybe a bad lot?? I was a week 35 production.

I really hope more people report this as more people get their cars. It's a catch 22, as I don't hope the problem on people, but at the same time, the more with the problem, the more BMW will look into.

BMWTX
11-06-2010, 07:35 AM
Yes, I have the DHP and the steering noise/vibrations. Sounds like the tire rubbing against something at very low speed turning to the left/right. Felt vibrations in steering wheel on one occasion.

Joe F.
11-06-2010, 07:38 AM
Hate to tell you its not the tire that's rubbing on the wheel well...wish I was that lucky...they are trying to fix it for the second time now.....

pharding
11-06-2010, 08:46 AM
I do not have the grinding noise. BMW has a service engineer that visits each dealership once a month to address tough technical problems. If your dealer does resolve the issue after two attempts I would insist on a meeting with the BMW service engineer.

solstice
11-06-2010, 09:20 AM
DHP seems to be the common denominator. Joe F. did your tech observe the symptom during a test drive of your car? brandonw, to me this seems like a very common problem already. Of the relatively few owners that reads this forum there seems to be a high percentage ( for a fault ) that has the symptoms. And yeah, just as you think it might be going away it returns with a vengance. Safe or not, it does feel like the components involved will have excessive wear and it really feels and sounds like the car is faulty, not acceptable on a new car.

It also does not seem limited to a "bad lot". My car was built way before the Aug. re-tooling and I see M-sport and X-drive cars on this thread. Though I did get a new ars pump and valve block so if it is ars that is the cause it could still be a bad lot.

Joe F.
11-06-2010, 10:44 AM
Hey Soltice. My tech did observe it while i was driving the car. He sat with me in the car and we took it for a drive and it did it several times. It does seem that all of our vehicles have the DHP wonder if it has something to do with this suspension system on the car. Either way this is unacceptable on a new car and it seems like its happening to several people like you stated.
I really believe that this is poor quality control on BMW's part. I love the car but this just puts a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to BMW. My service center has been great so far but lets see how this plays out.....

solstice
11-06-2010, 02:45 PM
Thanks Joe F. Very good to know that a tech has observed the symptoms. You are currently our best hope. I wonder if it could be the ars valve block since I think the X-drive and rwd cars have different pumps. I would assume that the X-drive cars share pump between steering and ars while the rwd car has a separate ars pump so the pump would not be a common factor. Perhaps it's a synchronization problem where valves are not closing properly at certain circumstances making the highly pressurized oil resonate through the system. Hopefully it's something much simpler to detect. Our fingers are crossed that your tech will find the cause and a solution.

Is your car currently at the dealer / service center?

solstice
11-06-2010, 07:53 PM
Joe F. if your tech struggles to find a cause you might want to ask him what I plan to ask mine. If he can disconnect ars safely. I would like my tech to do this and then I can drive a week or until the grinding appears whichever comes first. If a week passes without an occurance I will be sure ars is the cause. If it appears it's obviously something else.

markl53
11-07-2010, 07:39 AM
Joe F. if your tech struggles to find a cause you might want to ask him what I plan to ask mine. If he can disconnect ars safely. I would like my tech to do this and then I can drive a week or until the grinding appears whichever comes first. If a week passes without an occurance I will be sure ars is the cause. If it appears it's obviously something else.

The key will be that you are able to reproduce the problem in the presence of the tech. I have learned this over the years. You will always get "NPF" (no problem found) if you are not able to ride with the person and achieve concurrence on what you both hear or feel. This happened with my wife's '08 Acura TL. There was a very annoying vibration, sound more than feel, at idle that sounded like an engine mount issue. We took the service dept. foreman for a ride and made sure we all agreed on the same sound that was heard. They thought it could be a challenging diagnosis. They ended up using a stethescope type device to hone in on the noise -- turns out all they had to do was reposition the power steering pump bracket that was vibrating against another frame piece.

You have to make them be able to hear or feel the problem in your presence for success to be achieved, IMO.

solstice
11-07-2010, 08:42 AM
I respectfully disagree markl53. My service department is open for creative ways of narrowing down the fault source. Sorry that you have other experiences. I would change dealer if that happened to me.
Even if my tech did observe the symptom he would still not know the cause. Also they trust me when I say there is an issue and have already asked me to to help with trying to isolate it by making observations when it happens.

shot1gun
11-08-2010, 06:31 AM
My 2011 550xi has the same problem at low speed as reported. I just picked the car up 8 days ago when I first started noticing the problem. I brought the car into Hendrick BMW for some accessories additions and reported the problem which no one had an answer too. They said make sure the lane departure was off and see how it goes.

Well the problem that seemed to be minor has seemed to increase especially as the weather turned cooler this week. Now many low speed left turns or starts up inclined roads get this grinding/vibration noise. My first thought that the software on the Xdrive was kicking in at the wrong time but the weather is clear and nothing to cause a slip has occurred since I have been driving the week are so.

I plan to bring the car to service sometime this week with a copy of the forum so the dealership doesn’t act like they never heard of this, especially since I believe I have the one of the first F10 550xi from the dealership that has been sold.

I feel the issue is more prevalent on the left turns but I have seen it on a right and definitely on inclines or varied road surfaces at low speed.

kocsis
11-08-2010, 06:44 AM
I am picking up my 2011 550ix tomorrow and will post as to whether I have this problem.

johnbmw6
11-08-2010, 06:45 AM
I am picking up my 2011 550ix tomorrow and will post as to whether I have this problem. I think your car will be fine, post some pictures ASAP.:thumbup:

brandonw
11-08-2010, 07:32 AM
My 2011 550xi has the same problem at low speed as reported. I just picked the car up 8 days ago when I first started noticing the problem. I brought the car into Hendrick BMW for some accessories additions and reported the problem which no one had an answer too. They said make sure the lane departure was off and see how it goes.

Well the problem that seemed to be minor has seemed to increase especially as the weather turned cooler this week. Now many low speed left turns or starts up inclined roads get this grinding/vibration noise. My first thought that the software on the Xdrive was kicking in at the wrong time but the weather is clear and nothing to cause a slip has occurred since I have been driving the week are so.

I plan to bring the car to service sometime this week with a copy of the forum so the dealership doesn’t act like they never heard of this, especially since I believe I have the one of the first F10 550xi from the dealership that has been sold.

I feel the issue is more prevalent on the left turns but I have seen it on a right and definitely on inclines or varied road surfaces at low speed.

FYI, I do not have an X-drive. So that I don't believe has anything to do with it. Going through the car wash yesterday as I was turning it, it happened. And obviously, when this does occur, it is quite noticeable from the outside as the attendant said something to me about it.

solstice
11-08-2010, 07:44 AM
I also don't have X-drive. shot1gun do you have the dynamic handling package?

shot1gun
11-08-2010, 08:06 AM
Yes I have a fully loaded car with all option, less the night vision and active cruise control.

solstice
11-08-2010, 08:24 AM
Thanks shot1gun, dhp continues to the be the common factor. Every single F10 reported here with this issue has dhp. Otherwise it's a mix of 535s, 550s, X-drives and non X-drives.

solstice
11-08-2010, 04:47 PM
I talked to my service rep. today about disabling ars. He checked with the service foreman who looked into it and later came back with the info that unfortunately there is no easy way to disable ars. Now the plan is for the foreman to drive my car until he observes the issue ( including taking it home with him which I'm not to happy with but I can't stand the grinding it makes the car feel broken which ruins the driving ) and I will get a loaner - again. I'll keep you updated with any progress, please do the same.

biggerkahuna
11-08-2010, 05:35 PM
Gave the Tech Foreman my car on Saturday. He said he'd take it home and drive it around since we were unsuccessful to reproduce the sound when we did a test drive. Got the phone call and few hours ago with the problem potentially identified and their attempt at the solution. Hopefully this fixes the problem. Details to follow. ;)

brandonw
11-08-2010, 05:44 PM
Gave the Tech Foreman my car on Saturday. He said he'd take it home and drive it around since we were unsuccessful to reproduce the sound when we did a test drive. Got the phone call and few hours ago with the problem potentially identified and their attempt at the solution. Hopefully this fixes the problem. Details to follow. ;)

biggerkahuna-

This is the best news I have heard in days. My fingers are crossed that your techs are truly able pinpoint and further, resolve or determine a fix. I look forward to your next update.

Thanks to everyone else for their participation in this thread and keeping it front and center.

agio0308
11-08-2010, 06:20 PM
Bring it in for service. It's now pretty easy to reproduce on my car. Anytime it has been unused for an hour or more it makes the grinding thing in more than 50% of the first couple of 90 degree + turns from stand still. Pulling out of a parking lot or turning in an intersection from a stop light it is easy to reproduce the grinding. To hear the "farting" noise it's just to open the window and drive around in a parking garage. It's absolutely not the sound from tires rubbing against the road surface, this is from another source and the grinding sensation is significant. The grinding is also there independent of road surface codition: wet or dry does not matter. Bring your car in and let a tech drive it, I will on Tuesday since there's definately something wrong. My car did not have this issue prior to the new ars pump was installed.

I have just purchased a 2011 550 ix last month and have been experiencing the EXACT issue that you have posted. Brought it in a couple times already and no one can pin point the problem. I had caught a BMW engineer @ the dealership today. Took him out for a drive to hear the grinding noise and.......surprising enough...i wasn't able to duplicate the noise. However, when i brought the car back from to my office, i let it it for a couple hrs. Sure enough, when i got in it and drove home, the grinding was back. Seems like it occurs during the first phase of driving. I'm so pissed b/c i love this car but cant stand to hear the grinding every time i turn. I am waiting for the dealerships response. I will keep you posted and hope you can do the same. Good luck!!

solstice
11-08-2010, 08:26 PM
Gave the Tech Foreman my car on Saturday. He said he'd take it home and drive it around since we were unsuccessful to reproduce the sound when we did a test drive. Got the phone call and few hours ago with the problem potentially identified and their attempt at the solution. Hopefully this fixes the problem. Details to follow. ;)

I think we might have the same dealer and foreman since he mentioned that he had another F10 customer with the same symptoms. I really hope they found the root cause in your car.

shot1gun
11-09-2010, 07:32 AM
The problem was almost not even apparent all day yesterday in the afternoon until this morning where as soon as I went up an incline I felt the grinding. The problem persisted while in the parking lot doing some low speed turns and then stopped as unexplainable as it started. I finished driving to work for the next 20 minutes without incident.

I’m thankful for this forum since I know the BMW techs will say I drove it and couldn’t replicate the problem.

solstice
11-09-2010, 02:38 PM
I can't drop my car off at the delaer until Nov. 15 due to lack of loaner cars. Hopefully someone else like the biggerkahuna and/or Joe F. will have more updates before that.

biggerkahuna
11-09-2010, 04:29 PM
So here's the story.... The tech foreman was able to regenerate the sound. He believes it is related to the ARS(Active Roll Stabilization). To be specific, the problem lies in the active swaybar valve unit also known as the hydraulic sway bar valve block. He's not sure what the precise problem is but that it could be related to debris getting caught in the unit due to fabrication out of tolerance or a couple of other things that I didn't get a chance to write down. In the end, the result being a grinding noise emanating from the unit with no regular occurrence.

So the good thing is that they should be able to get a replacement valve unit by tomorrow. The plan is to install it and test it over the next couple of days to make sure the problems has gone away. If things work out, I should have my car back by the end of this week.


I have to give props to my SA and the Tech Foreman that have been working with me to get this figured out. They've been top notch when working on my M5 and now with my 550i.:thumbup: Let me know if you're in the Pacific Northwest and I'll send you their names.

Hopefully this helps you guys out. Good luck!

solstice
11-09-2010, 05:08 PM
Thanks biggerkahuna, is your foremans initials MV? I suspect we use the same dealer and the fact that my car did not have this issue prior to my ars valve block and pump was replaced should be helpful to their analyses. It sure will help my case that there is another car with the same issue at my dealer so thanks for posting!

solstice
11-09-2010, 05:17 PM
Also it seems like the potential cause is very close to what I suspected.

11-02 I wrote this:
"I wonder if it could be the ars valve block since I think the X-drive and rwd cars have different pumps. I would assume that the X-drive cars share pump between steering and ars while the rwd car has a separate ars pump so the pump would not be a common factor. Perhaps it's a synchronization problem where valves are not closing properly at certain circumstances making the highly pressurized oil resonate through the system."

Emilner
11-09-2010, 05:46 PM
Add me to the list. Today for the first time I heard it. I just left the car wash and made a slow right turn up a slight incline and I felt something like a tire rubbing coming from the floorboards as well as a grinding sound. It did it once and hasn't happened since. Let's hope the valve is the problem....

TriStork
11-09-2010, 07:02 PM
My 2 week old 550 xi has the same grinding sound upon low speed turning. It's in the shop now to replace a defective airbag sensor and to evaluate the grind. Scratching their heads right now. Going to recommend this post to them.

brandonw
11-09-2010, 07:21 PM
Just curious as to how fast BMW works...

On a situation like this, that is obviously growing in numbers, there have got to be people describing this issue to service advisers all over the country. Many of which, will all start the same process or simply say they cant duplicate it. How long does it take for BMW to put out a service bulletin? And, will they do it in two phases or one, one being when they know they have a widely reported problem with no solution or two, not until they also have a solution?

solstice
11-09-2010, 07:40 PM
If this turns out to be ars me thinks there will be some nervous ZF representatives called up to Bmw HQ soon. This will be costly in terms of labour, parts and customer dis-satisfaction. Seeing the stream of readers adding to the list of recently delivered cars having this issue there seems to be a big risk that if new components are installed they will be faulty as well. Not a good situation.

Joe F.
11-10-2010, 06:52 PM
Still in the shop now for about a week or more since I got the car.I officially had the car for one day before it went straight back to the dealer because of the noise. This has been a real bummer but apparently my dealership is working on it with BMW. I hope that everyone is taking their cars in for this issue so that BMW realizes this is a big problem.....Thanks everyone and I will keep everyone updated if my dealership comes up with a fix.....

solstice
11-10-2010, 07:42 PM
Still in the shop now for about a week or more since I got the car.I officially had the car for one day before it went straight back to the dealer because of the noise. This has been a real bummer but apparently my dealership is working on it with BMW. I hope that everyone is taking their cars in for this issue so that BMW realizes this is a big problem.....Thanks everyone and I will keep everyone updated if my dealership comes up with a fix.....

It could be worse. I got my car in July and have had about a week of problem free ownership since then. First a broken ars pump and then immediately a faulty ??? I now also have a very annoying rattle somewhere behind the center stack. I'm getting a bit fatigued with this car.

Thanks for the status update Joe F. I agree that everyone who observed this issue should contact their dealer to inform them about the problem. The bigger/widespread issue the more help the individual dealers will get from bmw corporate and Germany to solve it.

samrajj
11-10-2010, 08:34 PM
i'm the two week owner of a 550xi with m sports that is pretty much fully optioned except driver's assistance and night vision and am very disappointed to report having the same problem. i get a grinding vibration of sorts that i notice more when starting the car from a cold start, at low speeds and when turning the steering wheel, as reported by most others. i was beginning to question my sanity as the noise comes and goes, but am glad to know i'm not the only one with it. i haven't taken my car into the dealer yet, figured the car was too new for them to know what's going on and was hoping maybe it would just take a little time for the car to settle. i plan on contacting BMW of NA to inform them of the problem in the meantime. will definitely keep following this post so please report any solutions!

biggerkahuna
11-10-2010, 08:38 PM
Thanks biggerkahuna, is your foremans initials MV? I suspect we use the same dealer and the fact that my car did not have this issue prior to my ars valve block and pump was replaced should be helpful to their analyses. It sure will help my case that there is another car with the same issue at my dealer so thanks for posting!
Hey Solstice,

Yup, MV is the tech foreman I've been working with. By any chance, were you the one that picked up the dark grey 550i back in August?

So here's the latest update, the part didn't come in today. I'm guessing that this is a growing issue and everyone's trying to order the same replacement part. They told me it's looking like a 6-7 day wait time to get the part, install it, and test things out. They said I could come in and take my car back in the meantime but it's been kind of fun driving around the 335i with x-drive. It's a smaller cabin but the AWD is kind of fun.

I'll continue to provide updates as they become available. Good luck everyone!

solstice
11-10-2010, 11:52 PM
"By any chance, were you the one that picked up the dark grey 550i back in August?"
Nope, that wasn't me, I picked up mine at the Welt in July.

TriStork
11-11-2010, 05:17 PM
My dealer told me that they have contacted BMW and no widespread problems have been reported to date that match ours. I referred him to our thread, verbally leading him to the exact internet location as we spoke on the phone. The number of affected cars is growing!
:dunno:

agio0308
11-11-2010, 05:35 PM
I find it so frustrating that these dealerships or BMW have not heard about this growing issue. You would think that someone from Corporate would be monitoring these forums to get customer feedback. Not what I expected from such a superior vehicle manufacturer.

brandonw
11-11-2010, 07:00 PM
Would a suggestion be in order that we call make calls tomorrow to BMW Customer Service tomorrow and make the issue known?? Or is this tactic worthless?

agio0308
11-11-2010, 07:11 PM
Actually, I have already done so. I would encourage you to do so a well.

Joe F.
11-11-2010, 08:21 PM
I agree everyone please call BMW about this issue because they need to realize that this is a widespread problem. This is obviously not a one or two car problem so they certainly should not try to makes us feel like this is some type of surprise to them that this issue is occurring.

jimefam
11-12-2010, 07:18 PM
Well I picked up my 550i about 15 hours ago here at the welt, car looked beautiful and everything was just as i'd ordered it. Delivery specialist explained everything and I hurriedly shook my head as my delivery time was 11AM and I wanted to make the factory tour at 11:30. I turn on the car do the victory lap then proceed down the ramp to the gate that automatically opens up so I can drop off the car with the Valet and make the tour. As I get out I have to make a right hand turn to the valet and guess what! I'm grinning like a fool when i turn the wheel and feel the grinding! it was so noticeable that the valet standing there asked me about it when I got out of the car. I calmly told him the steering was damaged and he was looking at me like I was crazy! Did the tour and then went up to the premier lounge and told the person who had checked me in. They offered to look at the car but I turned it down as I would have been without the car for the day. As was already aware of the issue and prepared mentally that if it had it it would be taken care of at the VPC. Moral of the story yes this is a prevalent issue and iäm sure bmw is rapidly looking it this. After the day at Welt I took to the highway and had no issue with pulling to the right or any other things. Car is awesome although the steering is definitely lacking. I thought with all the excitement of it being my car and being on the autobahn with it i'd forget the steering. Nope its pretty numb but i guess i'll get used to it. Thought I would report in as its 4:17 am here I havent slept in 38 hours and I'm WIDE awake!

brandonw
11-12-2010, 07:56 PM
Jim-

Congrats on the new car and the Welt delivery! I am sorry that you car seems to have this flaw. Though I am glad you knew about it ahead of time. I just don't see how BMW quality control has missed this so many times and has yet to at least put something out to dealers about the mass reported issue.

Are you taking your new car back while there for them to look at? Enjoy the car and your trip to Germany

GHOST PROTOCOL
11-12-2010, 08:49 PM
I have a week 37 build 535xi which was delivered to NJ. I do not have any of the sport packages, nor do I have any option that changes the standard suspension, transmission, etc. My F10 does not pull to the right and the steering is also very responsive. Also, I do not have the grinding noise reported by others.

solstice
11-12-2010, 11:49 PM
CRMESQ, I don't think you need to worry since you do not have DHP. Only DHP cars has been reported to have this issue. Currently it is ARS ( part of DHP ) that is the main suspect.

jimefam, I'm sorry to hear that you are another victim of this issue and that brand new builds still has the problem. It worries me since it shows that the solution is not found. If it was they would not deliver new cars with this problem. It's not surprising though since we haven't heard of a successfully fixed car yet. Anyway try to fully enjoy your ED and make sure they fix it at VDC prior to re-delivery. Driving around with it at home is a drag,my wife refuses to drive our car and I honestly do not enjoy driving it since it feels broken.

jlocincy
11-14-2010, 09:01 AM
Hey guys...I've had the 550ix for three weeks...same issues with the grinding. Took it in twice and service said they could not reproduce. I pointed them to this thread and talked with them yesterday. They said that they are now aware of it, but not sure what to do. They said it could be the hydraulic valve or something like that, but did not have confirmation of the fix. I told them that once they know of the fix, call me and I will bring it in...didn't want to be without it for the next couple of weeks. This is frustrating because they had to take me out of a 535xi early because of all of the fuel system issues. The last two BMW's have been difficult. Gotta say, though, I love this car but for the steering issue. If anyone with grinding gets it fixed for sure, post a thread so we can tell our advisors. Thanks.

Nelquan
11-15-2010, 10:12 AM
Hi Guys,

I'm new to the forum...Picked my 550xi M Sport up from the dealership this past Saturday morning - it's absolutely beautiful and I hope to put up some pics soon.

Anyway, The CA was in the car with me for a little maiden voyage spin (at her recommendation), and wouldn't you know it, as we pulled away sharply from the curb - the grinding sound you've all been describing coupled with a small vibration occured.

It happend once again on that initial drive, though honestly, I have not heard it or any abnormal sound or feeling since. Luckily for me (us) the CA was in the car with me and clearly heard the noise and felt the vibrations as well. She notified both BMW and the Service department at the dealership. She also called me this morning to check in, but as I mentioned, nothing to report.

Will keep you all posted.

NB

x5 '08
11-15-2010, 10:20 AM
Hi Guys,

I'm new to the forum...Picked my 550xi M Sport up from the dealership this past Saturday morning - it's absolutely beautiful and I hope to put up some pics soon.

Anyway, The CA was in the car with me for a little maiden voyage spin (at her recommendation), and wouldn't you know it, as we pulled away sharply from the curb - the grinding sound you've all been describing coupled with a small vibration occured.

It happend once again on that initial drive, though honestly, I have not heard it or any abnormal sound or feeling since. Luckily for me (us) the CA was in the car with me and clearly heard the noise and felt the vibrations as well. She notified both BMW and the Service department at the dealership. She also called me this morning to check in, but as I mentioned, nothing to report.

Will keep you all posted.

NB

Just curious - what dealership? And where are the pics? Let's see the rear end. Haven't seen much of that exhaust on the 550 M sport.

Good luck w the car!!!

Nelquan
11-15-2010, 10:25 AM
Ray Catena, BMW of Westchester. I know...I have to get the pics done asap!! Btw...went with the Black "performance " grille on the front - huge difference...looks much more aggressive.

x5 '08
11-15-2010, 10:30 AM
Ray Catena, BMW of Westchester. I know...I have to get the pics done asap!! Btw...went with the Black "performance " grille on the front - huge difference...looks much more aggressive.

Where did you buy the grill, from the dealership? How much? My 550iX M Sport arrives in a few weeks. Nervous about the handling though. And now of course the noise you've mentioned.

Nelquan
11-15-2010, 10:39 AM
Got it from the dealership (they ordered, received and installed it within 3 days before my pick-up)...think it was around $150 + labor. Again, haven't heard the sound or felt vibrations since Saturday so keeping my fingers crossed. Outside of that "incident," the car drives great. I havent seen another M Sport in the NY area at all...Mine was the first delivered to that dealership and people were all over in the lot. You're gonna love it.

solstice
11-15-2010, 11:32 AM
Is there anyone here who has taken delivery of a dhp equipped F10 in November or late October who do not have this issue?
I left my car at the dealer for the 2nd time for this issue today.

markl53
11-15-2010, 12:19 PM
Is there anyone here who has taken delivery of a dhp equipped F10 in November or late October who do not have this issue?
I left my car at the dealer for the 2nd time for this issue today.
Didn't the tech take yours home the other day and verify he heard/felt it?

solstice
11-15-2010, 12:32 PM
Didn't the tech take yours home the other day and verify he heard/felt it?

No that was biggerkahuna. He is further along the process waiting for a new valve block ( He is at the same dealer as me ). I had to wait about a week for a loaner to become available which is today.

agio0308
11-15-2010, 02:13 PM
Brought my 550ix into dealership this morning for the 3rd time regarding the grinding sound. They, once again, were unable to replicate the problem. Not quite sure what to do next if they can't her what happens when I dive it.

jlocincy
11-15-2010, 02:16 PM
All,

Quick update. I'm in Cincy and the temperature dropped about 30 degrees over the past day to about 35 degrees in the morning. The grinding is now really noticeable at nearly every turn, even at higher speeds. It seems to be a problem that gets worse over time (I now have about 700 miles on car) and with the weather. Called BMW Customer Service today to report the problem. I will let you know when I hear from them or the dealer.

x5 '08
11-16-2010, 09:37 AM
No that was biggerkahuna. He is further along the process waiting for a new valve block ( He is at the same dealer as me ). I had to wait about a week for a loaner to become available which is today.

Solstice, any luck yesterday while your car was in service?

solstice
11-16-2010, 11:29 AM
Solstice, any luck yesterday while your car was in service?

Not yet, which is expected. The dealer told me that it will take a while ( many days ) when I dropped the car off. I think they want to reproduce and then analyze and compare with the experience/data from biggerkahuna's 550. I would be pleasantly surprised if I have it fixed within 2 weeks. I'll let you know as soon as I hear of any progress.

agio0308
11-16-2010, 02:10 PM
Below is the response I received this morning from the Service rep @ the dealership pertaining to the steering/grinding issue:

"Not sure about weather. We drove the car today, noise was there after driving 20 minutes. We put the vehicle in the air and checked underneath. There was a small rub spot on the fuel tank. We adjusted the metal line and put a rubber insulater on it and drove again. No noise this time. We will try again in am."

I will keep everyone posted when I hear back from them tomorrow morning. Something tells me, though, that the problem still exists.

BubbRubb
11-16-2010, 02:28 PM
I too have the exact same issues with my new (200 miles) F10. After having taken it in twice now and the service technician determining there were not any issues, I forwarded this thread to my rep. My rep contacted BMW North America and confirmed that it is indeed a problem with the Active Roll Stabilization. They are working on the solution with one of the service guys car first to determine if it fixes the problem. Assuming they fix it, I'll then bring in my car for repair. Stay tuned with the results.

solstice
11-16-2010, 02:43 PM
[QUOTE=agio0308;5629843]Below is the response I received this morning from the Service rep @ the dealership pertaining to the steering/grinding issue:

"Not sure about weather. We drove the car today, noise was there after driving 20 minutes. We put the vehicle in the air and checked underneath. There was a small rub spot on the fuel tank. We adjusted the metal line and put a rubber insulater on it and drove again. No noise this time. We will try again in am."

What makes me doubt this solution is that it sounds like the grinding comes from different locations depending on if you turn left or right and none of them close to the fuel tank. Then again, the source of sounds can be hard to indentify and at least you don't need to worry about having your fuel tank be scratched open by a rubbing metal line...

solstice
11-16-2010, 02:54 PM
I too have the exact same issues with my new (200 miles) F10. After having taken it in twice now and the service technician determining there were not any issues, I forwarded this thread to my rep. My rep contacted BMW North America and confirmed that it is indeed a problem with the Active Roll Stabilization. They are working on the solution with one of the service guys car first to determine if it fixes the problem. Assuming they fix it, I'll then bring in my car for repair. Stay tuned with the results.

Is it bmwna that is working on finding a solution or is it your dealer that is trying a verified solution provided by bmwna?

Zathris
11-16-2010, 06:30 PM
My fully loaded 550i is a September build I received delivery at the Welt center. I too have the same problem. My car is currently in U.S. customs and will be released to the VPC in short order. My question is, should I contact the BMW European delivery department and mention my concerns so that it might be handled at the VPC or wait and mention it to my dealer to have it go through the normal service department process. My thought is it would be better done at the VPC but I'm not sure the best way to go about letting someone know.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

Nelquan
11-16-2010, 07:00 PM
I'm still having the same issue as well. Doesn't sound like these guys have a clue about this thing (yet). Hopefully someone will have a breakthrough. I plan on bringing the car in immediately and will demand to drive a loaner until the problem gets fixed. We all need to keep raising hell and elevating until this issue is resolved. Its a real bummer to pay this much money for a car that sounds like Sh*t before you've even logged 100 miles.

Will keep you all posted.

solstice
11-16-2010, 10:58 PM
Zathris, since there is no known solution yet I would recommend that you let your dealer fix it. That way you can get a loaner while they are figuring it out. And having heard the current delay stories from the customs/VPC it's probably best not to give them an excuse to hold your car longer than neccessary. If this was an issue with a known solution that the VPC could have implemented in a day or two I would have recommended the VPC but not now while there still are unknowns.

Nelquan, that's the way to go. Let them know that you are not interrested in driving around in brand new broken car and ask for a loaner until it's fixed. That way you also have the lemon law ticking if it turns out you'll have more issues later on.

Nelquan
11-17-2010, 05:28 AM
Taking the car back tomorrow...will keep you all posted. :mad:

Nelquan
11-18-2010, 06:39 AM
Dropped my 550i XDrive, M Sport at the dealership this morning to look into the issue. Went out with the Shop Foreman for a spin and thank goodness, he heard it!! - actually he heard it several times. Luckily, it just so happens that the Engineer will also be there today so hopefully he'll hear it as well and they'll begin the process of a diagnosis and fix.

Got a loaner and dont intend to return it until the issue is fully resolved.

Hang in there gents...will keep you posted and please do the same with your progress.

brandonw
11-18-2010, 08:12 AM
Just talked to BMWNA. The lady I was transferred to was not aware of the issue/complaint. I asked that I be able to send the thread to her for her to read/review and forward as she felt best.

She was made aware that I am taking my car in on Monday. She said she will follow up with my dealer on Tuesday as to the problem(s) and certainly offer any assistance and additional resources.

An additional note, when I made my service appointment I asked to speak with the shop foreman. He called me back and said that he had heard the complaint and had another can in for that reason. He indicated whatever part he ordered for it would take about 3 weeks to get in.

solstice
11-18-2010, 10:35 AM
Just talked to BMWNA. The lady I was transferred to was not aware of the issue/complaint. I asked that I be able to send the thread to her for her to read/review and forward as she felt best.

She was made aware that I am taking my car in on Monday. She said she will follow up with my dealer on Tuesday as to the problem(s) and certainly offer any assistance and additional resources.

An additional note, when I made my service appointment I asked to speak with the shop foreman. He called me back and said that he had heard the complaint and had another can in for that reason. He indicated whatever part he ordered for it would take about 3 weeks to get in.

3w...that's a long time but not bad if it includes ZF retuning/retooling their production line to consistently produce working valve blocks. If the valve block is the culprit. Perhaps it's just sw to control the valve action within tighter tolerances that is needed. I think 3w rules out that your foreman is going to pull the "rubber around the metal line" solution on you. Scary that this still seems to be an issue only known by a few if any at BMWNA.

My car has now been in for 3 days with no update yet. I'll call them tomorrow for status if they don't call me first.

Nelquan
11-18-2010, 06:37 PM
Guys,

Believe it or not, I just got my car back - same day - and all seems fine. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I took the car into the dealership this morning and and the foreman went out with me and heard the noise. He informaed me that the Regional Technical Engineer ("RTE") was actually going to be there today, and that he'd have him take a look. The RTE took out the car and heard the noise as well...here's the formal skinny:

Complaint: Customer states there is a grinding sound coming from the steering when turning

Cause: Insufficient insulation on rear ARS line

Correction: As per RTE, rear ARS supply line road tested after insulation was installed and was unable to reproduce noise

I picked up the car this evening and haven't heard a single peep - took all sorts of turns, accelerating, braking, left, right, tight, gradual and nothing. I'm hoping that this is the fix and wanted to communicate it with all of you. My fingers are crossed that this thing is resolved. I will continue to keep you all posted, especially if anything goes wrong again.

Good Luck!!:thumbup:

DXK
11-18-2010, 06:48 PM
Like Mike Miller in Roundel says: "Seems like today, BMW leaves the final R&D up to dealership technicians to sort out"

solstice
11-18-2010, 10:45 PM
Thanks Nelquan. I also hope that it's that simple and that it's not just a "Tylenol fix" that reduces symptoms while the sickness is still there.

biggerkahuna
11-19-2010, 01:45 AM
Got a call from my SA today and said the part came in. Since I originally thought it was going to take several weeks, I returned the loaner and picked up my car last weekend. I'll be bringing it in again this Saturday for the fix and checking out another loaner. Hopefully it doesn't take too long and the problem gets resolved. I'll post again when I have any new info. *crossing fingers*

biggerkahuna
11-19-2010, 01:52 AM
Guys,

Believe it or not, I just got my car back - same day - and all seems fine. As I mentioned in my earlier post, I took the car into the dealership this morning and and the foreman went out with me and heard the noise. He informaed me that the Regional Technical Engineer ("RTE") was actually going to be there today, and that he'd have him take a look. The RTE took out the car and heard the noise as well...here's the formal skinny:

Complaint: Customer states there is a grinding sound coming from the steering when turning

Cause: Insufficient insulation on rear ARS line

Correction: As per RTE, rear ARS supply line road tested after insulation was installed and was unable to reproduce noise

I picked up the car this evening and haven't heard a single peep - took all sorts of turns, accelerating, braking, left, right, tight, gradual and nothing. I'm hoping that this is the fix and wanted to communicate it with all of you. My fingers are crossed that this thing is resolved. I will continue to keep you all posted, especially if anything goes wrong again.

Good Luck!!:thumbup:
Hey Nelquan, Thanks for posting. Glad to hear they may have fixed the issue. I did have a question though. Was the sound you were hearing coming from the front or rear of the car? I was just a bit confused since the fix was to add additional insulation at the rear ARS line and I know the sound I'm getting is coming from the front end.

Nelquan
11-19-2010, 04:31 AM
Solstice, I'm with you on that man. Drove the car HARD this morning and not a peep. I plan to speak with the Foreman today so that I can get his first hand account.

BiggerKahuna, my sound was coming from the FRONT of the vehicle. Specifically, it seemed as though it was coming from the front left/middle. While the repair seems to have been made in the back of the vehicle (not exactly sure where the "rear" ARS would be fixed) it seems to have resolved the problem which I too thought was in the front area of the vehicle.

Will check in again once I've spoken with the foreman and please do the same once you've picked up your vehicle. What part did you have replaced again??

solstice
11-19-2010, 09:51 AM
Got a call from my SA today and said the part came in. Since I originally thought it was going to take several weeks, I returned the loaner and picked up my car last weekend. I'll be bringing it in again this Saturday for the fix and checking out another loaner. Hopefully it doesn't take too long and the problem gets resolved. I'll post again when I have any new info. *crossing fingers*

Perhaps the ars valve block on order was replaced with a walk to Home depot for a piece of rubber hose ;)

x5 '08
11-19-2010, 10:05 AM
Perhaps the ars valve block on order was replaced with a walk to Home depot for a piece of rubber hose ;)

Solstice, are they working on yours today? Any update?

Nelquan
11-19-2010, 11:17 AM
Too funny Solstice! Let's hope this truly is the fix.

solstice
11-19-2010, 01:37 PM
Solstice, are they working on yours today? Any update?

No rubber hose for me, at least not yet. My service rep. just told me that they got green light from bmw corporate to order and replace the ars valve block for this issue. It will take about 5 days to ship from Germany. My car will stay at the dealer until it's repaired. I can't help being suspicious about the insulation solution since my car did not have the grinding until the valve block was replaced. You would think that insufficient insulation would have been insufficient with the old valve block as well. Well, well, we'll see how things turn out. I'm really hoping the valve block will be the fix on my car since it just feel more as going after the source instead of the symptom.

Nelquan
11-19-2010, 02:12 PM
Interesting. Especially since my grinding was occuring before I even drove the thing off the lot. Valve Block as an issue has not come into play (yet), but this is clearly good to know, particularly the OK from corporate to get the part. Thanks for the update Solstice...will be monitoring my "fix" through the weekend and will touch base with you guys if anything changes (negative).

Def want o know if your new part remedies the situation without any insulation.

agio0308, whatever happend with your fix? Sounds like it was identical to mine. Would like to know if you've had any additional problems/issues.

solstice
11-19-2010, 02:51 PM
It seems like production date plays a role. My car was built in June and I think all commenters here with the grinding noise symptom are of September or newer build date. None of the other early "dhp buyers" as pharding have reported the issue. My car didn't have it either until I got a new valve block in October. If it is the valve block it's likely faulty from the factory and I got a bad one with my replacement while I had a good one originally until it was contaminated by my broken ars pump. Or it really is an insulation issue it's just that I don't think they touched the rear ars lines when my pump and valve block was replaced.

Nelquan
11-19-2010, 03:01 PM
One way or the other friend, I'm hopeful that we're close to having this thing figured out and that the "fix" in either scenario (if it isn't both) is not monumental. Will touch base soon.

agio0308
11-19-2010, 06:31 PM
Ok fellas. Got the car back today after a week. According to the Service Dept, they replaced the insulators and, sure enough, grinding issue is still present. Gonna bring the car back next week. Hopefully, Germany will have a resolution to this whole debacle soon. If not, the cars goin' back.

smhoer
11-19-2010, 06:40 PM
Great (said with a sarcastic tone). My 550 is being built as I write this. I have my fingers crossed.

Nelquan
11-20-2010, 06:09 AM
Well, sad to say gents, the grinding sound and vibration are back! A full day and a half of nothing and now its back as strong as ever. Beyond frustrated at this point and am feeling similar to my friend above.

Solstice, please keep us informed as to your progress. You too BiggerKahuna.

solstice
11-20-2010, 11:12 PM
I'm sorry but not surprised to hear that Nelquan. You will most likely have to wait about 2w on an update of my car. I'm taking the family to the beach and will leave all car troubles behind. My wife told me today that she didn't want to hurt my feelings but she thinks the E60 loaner and our old car is much more fun to drive than our F10...and I swear I haven't told her how I feel about it.

moonsault270
11-21-2010, 03:08 PM
Well, sad to say gents, the grinding sound and vibration are back! A full day and a half of nothing and now its back as strong as ever. Beyond frustrated at this point and am feeling similar to my friend above.

Solstice, please keep us informed as to your progress. You too BiggerKahuna.

Damn, I was going to make an appointment to drop my car off tomorrow. Was going to bring them your post ...
Complaint: Customer states there is a grinding sound coming from the steering when turning

Cause: Insufficient insulation on rear ARS line

Correction: As per RTE, rear ARS supply line road tested after insulation was installed and was unable to reproduce noise.

I don't want to leave my car there for weeks for them to return to me unfixed. I will let NA know of the problem so they will hopefully get on the ball!

I have Post Sept build 535i Msport. Could have sworn I heard the grinding noise the other day but I had the music on and windows closed. Tried to reproduce unsuccesfully after I read this thread. Hit 200 miles this morning at grinds pretty much every turn BADLY. Sounds horrible.

brandonw
11-22-2010, 06:43 AM
Well, I just took my car in for them to look at. I drove around with the tech and of course, I couldn't reproduce the issue :mad:

He said they have had one other car in with the complaint, but haven't been able to identify or fix it. He did indicate that BMW knows about the complaints.

If anyone who has this problem has yet to take their car in, PLEASE DO SO. It will only help get more attention to this, so that we all can hopefully get resolution.

To be continued...

Nelquan
11-22-2010, 06:49 AM
Just took mine in this morning and dropped it at the dealer (again)... I have a loaner and basically will hold onto it until the issuse is ABSOLUTELY FIXED.

Beyond frustrated...and beginning to feel uncomfortable about carrying a note for a car that I simply refuse to drive because it feels like damaged goods. Not cool.

johnbmw6
11-22-2010, 06:55 AM
Just took mine in this morning and dropped it at the dealer (again)... I have a loaner and basically will hold onto it until the issuse is ABSOLUTELY FIXED.

Beyond frustrated...and beginning to feel uncomfortable about carrying a note for a car that I simply refuse to drive because it feels like damaged goods. Not cool. I would totally peed off as well, keep there car till it's properly fixed for good.
My car has yet to go into build, so I am hoping for all this to be resolved "Before" I collect it.:eek:

x5 '08
11-22-2010, 07:35 AM
Just took mine in this morning and dropped it at the dealer (again)... I have a loaner and basically will hold onto it until the issuse is ABSOLUTELY FIXED.

Beyond frustrated...and beginning to feel uncomfortable about carrying a note for a car that I simply refuse to drive because it feels like damaged goods. Not cool.

I had the problems with my 2008 535 - the turbo issue - several times, and BMW actually paid me 1 month's lease payment. See if you can get some comp from them for this.

moonsault270
11-22-2010, 08:36 AM
"Fortunately" for me the grinding is extremely loud and happens pretty much everytime I turn right or left so reproducing should not be a problem.

I will be making a service appointment and will bring a copy of this thread.

Ill post updates as I receive.

Nelquan
11-22-2010, 10:39 AM
Good Advice X5.

solstice
11-22-2010, 01:47 PM
Latest update is that the valve block to my car is scheduled to be delivered on Nov. 29. If it's on time my car should be ready when I return from vacation Dec. 5. If it will be fixed is of course still an unknown, I forgot to ask if they now know how to identify a grinding and a non grinding ars valve block by non destructive inspection.

dimok
11-22-2010, 05:58 PM
Any time the car goes to service, it is reflected in the Carfax vehicle report. That for sure won't help with the resale value....

TriStork
11-24-2010, 05:08 AM
Mine seems to be getting a little worse. I love the looks and comfort of this car, but if BMW does not find a cure for this, I will go back to Mercedes and Audi. New A6 coming out in 2012!

jlocincy
11-24-2010, 03:45 PM
Hey Guys...its been a couple of weeks....here's the update...

Got a call from dealer, and by the way, I love this dealer...they are awesome!!

They mentioned that they have been following the problem and had a fix. The fix was to insulate the cable heading toward the rear and put something on the fuel tank (the same as the prior fixes described above). I drove around with the tech and did not hear a thing after the "fix." Something that does not seem to be a coincidence is that it was 71 degrees here in Cincy when I drove around with the tech after the "fix." Now, one day later, at 40+ degrees, I hear the sound again as I always did.

This has to be something triggered or at least enhanced by the weather. Every time I hear the sound, it is cold outside. I do not hear the sound when it is 70+ outside. Unfortunately, the past three times I have taken it in, they test drive it when it was warm outside and did not hear the sound.

They know it is happening because of complaints and this blog, so it's not an issue of belief, it's an issue of being able to replicate and fix it.

So, short story, insulation does not work! It has to be something else.

Keep us informed if/when you have a fix!!!

Futurestrend
11-27-2010, 08:22 AM
Just took delivery of my 2011 550xi M sport. It is a sweet looking car (carbon black). I too am suffering from this grinding when turning at low speeds. Took it in yesterday to put my new snow tires on and brought it to the attention of the dealer. He came out with me for a drive and said he noticed something but wasn't sure. The car only has 200 km so he thought it just may need to be driven more to break it in a bit and the problem might be resolved. After he put the snow tires on he said they took it out again and that they did not notice any problem anymore and said it may have been the tires. No sooner did I get back home when the grinding returned. I love this car but am disappointed to have this experience from BMW. I hope they resolve the issue soon!

markl53
11-27-2010, 09:48 AM
Any time the car goes to service, it is reflected in the Carfax vehicle report. That for sure won't help with the resale value....

I got a Carfax report on my '08 335i before I sold it. It was interesting, but the service entries are pretty generic, like "engine checked", etc. My several visits for HPFP and related items were not spelled out directly. I think the only pause it would give potential buyers is if they see continual repeated visits withint a short period. However, even that could be explained away by stating faulty diagnosis by the dealer (hopefully).

beamerGE
11-29-2010, 06:25 AM
So I just got my 550i about a week ago and heard the same noises about two days later. I'm also on the 5 Series forum and asked the question and got the following response. I hope it works:

It's the FZM Module located in the steering wheel used to control airbag, & turn signals, already reported on this, had mine replaced and all has been good since, here is the thread I started. They will need to remove steering wheel to change, make sure they have the part first or you will be without your car for a couple of days

http://forums.5serie...steering-wheel/

gabman
11-29-2010, 06:26 AM
Hi Guys, I got the link to this thread over at E60.net , have not had the time to read the complete thread but I did have a similar problem with my car when I got it, it turned out to be the FZM module located behind the steering wheel, this module controls the, steering wheel, air bag and turn signal. Everytime I turned my steering wheel at low speeds I would hear this noise that sounded like marbles or a broken cable. Anyways my dealer diagnosed it right away, ordered a new module, took the steering wheel off and replaced the module and the car has been perfect since. Here is the link to the thread on E60 that I posted about it. For what it's worth speak to your dealer and see if this is not the problem. I just joined your forum right now to let you guys know about my experience, hope this may be the problem , good luck.

http://forums.5series.net/topic/102289-steering-wheel/

GABMAN

P.S. As I am in Canada, it is very possible this problem has not yet made it's way to US dealers, so they are not aware of it, strange how my dealer got the fix the minute I brought it in and they heard the sound., anyways, Good Luck

P.P.S I have had my 535 since the day it came out back in June, noticed the problem pretty quickly but didn't have time to deal with it, dates are in my thread.

moonsault270
11-29-2010, 06:42 AM
Thanks for the info guys!

brandonw
11-29-2010, 01:45 PM
Well, today is probably the worst I have ever had this problem. It has occurred so many times today and also the length of time that it continues is the longest I have ever encountered.

The different today is that in Atlanta the overnight low was about 30 degrees with a high of 44 or so. Also, I had to other guys, somewhat over the heavier side in my car. Which makes me think back to suspension or something. :mad::dunno:

Nelquan
11-29-2010, 01:58 PM
brandonw, have you taken your vehicle in yet? I just hope BMW is beginning to get a clue on what's going on here. The symptoms all seem to be the same but the potential cause of the illness is all over the grid.

BTW...my car has been in since last Monday...will give them a bit of a break due to the Holiday, but I'm going to want some answers soon.

sambb
11-29-2010, 04:59 PM
It is unbelievable to think that BMW has messed up the steering this badly on such a historically wonderful sports sedan. I hope they fix it for you!

brandonw
11-30-2010, 08:13 AM
brandonw, have you taken your vehicle in yet? I just hope BMW is beginning to get a clue on what's going on here. The symptoms all seem to be the same but the potential cause of the illness is all over the grid.

BTW...my car has been in since last Monday...will give them a bit of a break due to the Holiday, but I'm going to want some answers soon.

Yes, I have taken it in. I drove with a tech, but couldn't get it reproduced (go figure). I did call BMWNA before I took it in and it was assigned to a rep, who said they would follow-up with the dealer and provide support and resources (iin which they did follow-up). They seem to all acknowledge there is a problem and state that BMW is working on it.

brandonw
11-30-2010, 01:52 PM
UPDATE:

As some of you know, I had taken my car in on Nov 22nd to look at this issue. In recap, they could reproduce the sound, with me or when they had the car. Though, they indicated they had a car in with a similar complaint. I had called BMWNA before my car went in to discuss and make them aware... I was assigned someone etc.... I picked up my car with no work, other than an inspection being done. My paperwork indicated BMW is investigating the issue. That was that.

Out of the blue today, I get a call from my dealer. They stated that BMW has approved a valve block replacement. Which I have read has been replaced by others. They say this is the fix. So they have me on order a new valve block. My car goes in next Wednesday. I will keep everyone updated. It does seem to make sense as it affects the ARS, sway bars and suspension some, as he explained it (or at least as I understood it). But from how I get the sound to occur, as these components logically would be in the mix.

Fingers crossed.

salamigs
11-30-2010, 01:59 PM
My car is about two weeks old (550i) and has less than 60 miles on it. I sometimes hear this noise when turning at slow speeds, but it is very rare (like once or twice a day). Does not seem to correlate well with the ambient temperature either. And it does not bother me at this point in time. So I have two questions;
1. Does it get worse over time based on your experiences?
2. What if this problem is ignored at this point in time? What is the bad thing that would happen? I am asking this because for something that does not bother me that much (at this point in time at the very least), I am kind of hesitant in letting them crack open a brand new car, which in my experience usually means something else starts breaking or rattles etc.

Any thoughts?

Nelquan
11-30-2010, 02:53 PM
My car is now in the shop where they are trying to figure things out (post the insulation fix)...They have not been able to replicate the sound since I returned it but the Foreman heard it several times with me prior to the first fix- thank goodness. I've forwarded the valve block thread along to my service guys, so thanks a lot for that Brandonw.

Salamigs, any sound that a car isnt supposed to be making, especially a brand new one, just isn't acceptable to me especially when one has shelled out a nice chunk of money for it. My sounds are no different than yours -- once or twice a day, not that loud, but noticeable...and while I tried to say "hey, it will probably go away or hey, eventually I won't notice it" (new car rose colored glasses) -- it hasn't gone away and I do notice it.

What you do is ultimately your choice, I understand your feelings on the matter. But in my opinion, the more this gets raised with BMW, the better off we'll all be.

Nelquan
11-30-2010, 03:02 PM
Moonsault270,

Any news on your end?

salamigs
11-30-2010, 03:40 PM
Nelquan, it is not that I disagree with you at all. And yes, I also would like everything to be perfect. And to be fair, it is just me who notices the nosie in my case (and I have noticed it only after reading these posts and started paying attention to it). Highly likely that I would not have noticed it had I not read these posts. May be that says something about the difference in severity of the issue that others and I are seeing. And clearly everyone will make the choice for themselves.

My question was more mechanical though; do you see anything getting damaged if this issue is not addressed in a timely manner? Let's say, if I or someone else chooses not to address this issue through the service folks for a year, am I jeopardizing the safety of the car, or signing up for big repair bills down the road etc.? That is the only thing I wanted to get others' take on. And I know this is a vague question as there is no consensus on what exactly is causing this problem at this point in time.

And all the power to the folks raising this to the attention of BMW as well.

brandonw
11-30-2010, 05:29 PM
Nelquan, it is not that I disagree with you at all. And yes, I also would like everything to be perfect. And to be fair, it is just me who notices the nosie in my case (and I have noticed it only after reading these posts and started paying attention to it). Highly likely that I would not have noticed it had I not read these posts. May be that says something about the difference in severity of the issue that others and I are seeing. And clearly everyone will make the choice for themselves.

My question was more mechanical though; do you see anything getting damaged if this issue is not addressed in a timely manner? Let's say, if I or someone else chooses not to address this issue through the service folks for a year, am I jeopardizing the safety of the car, or signing up for big repair bills down the road etc.? That is the only thing I wanted to get others' take on. And I know this is a vague question as there is no consensus on what exactly is causing this problem at this point in time.

And all the power to the folks raising this to the attention of BMW as well.

I think that ANYTHING that doesn't sound as it should, it just trouble in the making, especially anything mechanical. Mine is not constant and I can't for sure say that it has gotten any worse or any better, due to the fact that it comes and goes. Sometimes its more frequent and other times it not. It is a noticeable sound from outside. Just drive with your window down in a parking garage, I bet if you get it to occur, you will hear it loud in a garage.

Additionally, maybe not a problem now, but will it cause damage ongoing? Who knows. But being with the ARS/valve block in dealing with suspension etc... I don't want to be driving and suddenly encounter a failure - not while I'm driving nor do I want someone to be on the road when they are getting a heads up before there is any major incident.

In short it's your call. But I just spent $72 grand on a car that is not as it's suppose to be. Anything that I bought new, I would expect replacement or repair. Being this is BMW, I am even more disappointed at such a lack of apparent quality control. Too many folks are reporting this, in many cases noticing it driving away dorm the dealer or even the Welt. A correct fix will satisfy me at this point

TriStork
11-30-2010, 05:38 PM
I agree with BrandonW. $ 70,000 car should be perfect! I'm sure our trade in values will take a hit if this issue is never resolved.

solstice
11-30-2010, 07:42 PM
Ars is extremely powerful. It can hoist this 4000 pound beast side to side in a blink of an eye, it's also very expensive. Why on earth would you risk that such a system breaks down within or outside warranty? Who knows if parts can punch through the body, smash into oncoming traffic and whatabout the costs? Get it fixed. Greetings from a sunny Hawaii.

Nelquan
11-30-2010, 08:06 PM
Point well made and well taken.

To your question, I don't think any of us know what this thing could do to the vehicle if left to chance over time. Some earlier posts upon first diagnosis described a "rubbing" of the rear ARS line against the gas tank if I'm not mistaken.

Regardless, I'm not going to roll the dice not matter what may be rubbing and where. Agreed with Brandonw and the others on all points.

Solstice, did ya have to rub it in?? :). Its 50 and raining buckets in NY.

moonsault270
12-01-2010, 05:13 PM
Moonsault270,

Any news on your end?

Ive been out of town for a few days but I have been in contact with the manager at my dealership. I sent him a link to this thread and he in turn sent the information over to the foreman at my service center.

No that I am back, I will be making an appointment tomorrow for service. He mentioned to me that they think it may be a power steering hose touching part of the body. I dont know if this is just their hunch or they have successfully serviced a car with the problem.

Since the information was sent to the foreman, GABMAN posted the info regarding the FZM Module so I will mention that too.

I will post any updates as they come in.

salamigs
12-02-2010, 07:29 PM
Any updates on this issue folks?

Joe F.
12-02-2010, 08:13 PM
Well they have had my car for over a month now and they are waiting on parts.....BMW really messed up on this one.....

salamigs
12-02-2010, 08:37 PM
What parts are they waiting on Joe? Do they even have a clue as to where the noise is coming from?

Joe F.
12-02-2010, 08:39 PM
they are replacing the ars pump and valve block i think....and the parts are en route from Germany....just totally bummed. In my opinion they have no clue...just my two sense...we will see i may be wrong and I hope that I am.

salamigs
12-02-2010, 08:47 PM
How many miles did you have on it before you turned it in Joe? Also how old was the vehicle?

I have a similar problem as you can see from my prior posts, and may be I am still in the honeymoon stage, and not making a big deal out of it, but would like to take your (and others') take on whether this is an experience that gets worse over time, or relatively remains the same etc. There are some folks in other forums who seem to claim that it is getting better as the car is broken in, which did not make sense to me...

Why did they not give you the car back for you to drive while they are waiting for the parts, just out of curiosity?

moonsault270
12-03-2010, 06:16 AM
Joe, have you passed any of the new information posted by GABMAN to the service guys?

Salamigs, I heard it the day after I brought it home, can't tell if its getting worse. I would hear it every once in a while but after I came across this thread I drive around with the radio off an hear it almost every turn. Either way its pretty bad, not only the noise but the vibration I feel through the steering wheel.

I am bringing the car in on Tues 12/7 and made sure the foreman will be present when I arrive.

Hopefully I will have some encouraging news shortly.

Nelquan
12-03-2010, 07:22 AM
Mine is still in the shop (will be two weeks Monday)...two foreman have verified the sound/vibration...the engineer was in yesterday and of course could not replicate and he's in again today, so hopefully he'll hear it - but I'm beginning to wonder if that even matters. CLEARLY, THERE IS AN ISSUE!!!! The thing I can't wrap my hands around is why it seems the folks at BMW aren't talking to one another. If the valve block and ARS pump are the answers (and I've been sharing elements of this thread with them) then why isn't BMW sharing this information -- at least with the dealerships where the issue has been noted??

This entire fiasco is unacceptable. My patience is REALLY paper thin now and it will not be long before I start to consider my options.

Pasta Louegee
12-03-2010, 07:49 AM
Unfortunately I have the grinding sensation in the left front tire. Fortunately I realized it right away and did not accept delivey on the car. Since then the dealer has found that 4/4 cars have this problem. The engineer from BMW came and was able to turn off the ARS system via computer..... the problem disappeared. The dealer did not know how to turn off the ARS. The problem is not easy to fix. The replacement parts from Germany are the original part number. BMW has not engineered a fix to this problem as of yet. I fear that those of you who are waiting for parts are going to be disappointed.
I am going to give it 6 months to see if they can work this out. If not Mercedes E 550.

1HOT BMR
12-03-2010, 07:56 AM
Unfortunately I have the grinding sensation in the left front tire. Fortunately I realized it right away and did not accept delivey on the car. Since then the dealer has found that 4/4 cars have this problem. The engineer from BMW came and was able to turn off the ARS system via computer..... the problem disappeared. The dealer did not know how to turn off the ARS. The problem is not easy to fix. The replacement parts from Germany are the original part number. BMW has not engineered a fix to this problem as of yet. I fear that those of you who are waiting for parts are going to be disappointed.
I am going to give it 6 months to see if they can work this out. If not Mercedes E 550.

When was your car built? I'm taking delivery of mine next week and of course I'm worried and do not want to take delivery of a defective car. What is the best way to test for the noise and vibration in your opinion?

Nelquan
12-03-2010, 08:03 AM
What are those parts?

moonsault270
12-03-2010, 08:41 AM
Well I suppose being able to disable the ARS to eliminate the noise will satisfy for a short time. As others have said , I will not have a lot of patience and if this whole mess, if this cannot be fixed by very early 2011 I will have to start thinking of a new ride.

Pasta- would love to know what parts they are.

1HOT- 90 degree turns at low speed. Stop at a stop sign, turn right or left. Try to induce body roll.

Pasta Louegee
12-03-2010, 08:41 AM
They are ordering the entire sway bar assembly. I think it includes sway bar and ARS units but I am not sure. Problem is these are the same as the orginal parts. In my car the problem got progressively worse.

Pasta Louegee
12-03-2010, 08:56 AM
Mine was built 12 weeks ago. I would not take delivery until you drive the car. I noticed mine on 15 degree turns at low speeds. The grinding was intermittent. If you can get the car in a 15 degree turn and pull into a driveway ie. small bump it will accentuate the feeling. The reason most people are not feeling it is that in subtle cases it is hard to differentiate from the feeling you get when you make a tight turn in all wheel drive car.
They were told by BMW to replace the entire assembly unit. I think that consists of the sway bar and ARS units, but I am not sure.
My car also had the mark on the gas tank where the hydraulic line was rubbing. This was not the cause of the noise but is certainly something that needs to be addressed.
Good luck.

x5 '08
12-03-2010, 08:57 AM
Mine is still in the shop (will be two weeks Monday)...two foreman have verified the sound/vibration...the engineer was in yesterday and of course could not replicate and he's in again today, so hopefully he'll hear it - but I'm beginning to wonder if that even matters. CLEARLY, THERE IS AN ISSUE!!!! The thing I can't wrap my hands around is why it seems the folks at BMW aren't talking to one another. If the valve block and ARS pump are the answers (and I've been sharing elements of this thread with them) then why isn't BMW sharing this information -- at least with the dealerships where the issue has been noted??

This entire fiasco is unacceptable. My patience is REALLY paper thin now and it will not be long before I start to consider my options.

Have you asked them to give you a new car? I know Mercedes does that. My gf recently got a c300 and after 2 weeks had a transmission problem - they took it back and got her a new one. I was quite surprised.

CarBrain
12-03-2010, 10:56 AM
Have you asked them to give you a new car? I know Mercedes does that. My gf recently got a c300 and after 2 weeks had a transmission problem - they took it back and got her a new one. I was quite surprised.

BMW may not do this. Also, most BMW enthusiasts here at the forum normally order their car and it would take 2 months to get it. Yes, it is better to wait 2 months for a new car than to have a bad car but what is the chance that the new car would not have this same issue?

Nelquan
12-03-2010, 01:55 PM
Valve Block on order now. Tick, tock, tick, tock....

salamigs
12-03-2010, 02:53 PM
Nelquan, excuse my ignorance please. What is a valve block (i.e. what is its functionality), how many exist on the car, how big is it, and how intrusive is it to get it swapped? Do you know any one of these?
Thanks in advance.

Nelquan
12-03-2010, 03:22 PM
Honestly, no idea my friend. It is however, the next step in the "we're trying to fix the problem" process. And btw, they're not even sure if that will fix the problem. Another thing to note, the part isn't easily available and they're not sure at this point how long it may take to get there.

I do know that the valve block is part of the ARS system, but I'm sure someone else in this thread probably knows a lot more. And btw, not an ignorant question...this stuff is complicated.

smhoer
12-03-2010, 06:34 PM
Nelquan, excuse my ignorance please. What is a valve block (i.e. what is its functionality), how many exist on the car, how big is it, and how intrusive is it to get it swapped? Do you know any one of these?
Thanks in advance.

This is a major suspension transplant. This is the core of the active suspension system.

moonsault270
12-03-2010, 07:12 PM
User Solstice should have ars pump and valve block was replaced shortly. Hoping for a positive post from him.

Rafa
12-04-2010, 12:27 AM
User Solstice should have ars pump and valve block was replaced shortly. Hoping for a positive post from him.

+1. No BMW owner should go through what solstice is going through.

smhoer
12-04-2010, 05:11 AM
+1. No BMW owner should go through what solstice is going through.

I agree. I am a little worried as my 550i is on its way. I will be test driving before signing.

Emilner
12-05-2010, 04:24 PM
Update. My car was intermittently giving me the grinding sensation as mentioned here. Well, lets just say it "fixed" itself. The other day I got a warning "dynamic drive malfunction" with a subsequent "reduced handling characteristics" warning. Well, let's just say reduced put it lightly. It is not wise to drive the car much without the system working as it pitches in corners like a school bus!!! I went into the dealer Wednesday and they diagnosed the ARS/ valve block had a faulty valve. They overnighted the part from Cali and I had my car back Thursday. If you are waiting more than a day or two I would raise hell, I had it fixed the next day!!

I may be crazy but I think the car feels better than before he problem showed up. I can't say what specifically, but it feels like I am getting more feedback. So far I am very happy to say the least!!

salamigs
12-05-2010, 04:32 PM
Say more on this Emilner. How many miles did you have on your car when this happened? And did it happen out of the blue? Also, any idea as to how intrusive the fix was, like how big the part was and what else did they have to take apart to get in there etc.?

It is kind of a bummer that we would all now be waiting for it to die so that it gives a code for the service people to act on.

sambb
12-05-2010, 07:06 PM
It is amazing how the poor steering also has reliability issues. So unfortunate, and one must question BMW's judgement here.

sambb
12-05-2010, 08:04 PM
Update. My car was intermittently giving me the grinding sensation as mentioned here. Well, lets just say it "fixed" itself. The other day I got a warning "dynamic drive malfunction" with a subsequent "reduced handling characteristics" warning. Well, let's just say reduced put it lightly. It is not wise to drive the car much without the system working as it pitches in corners like a school bus!!! I went into the dealer Wednesday and they diagnosed the ARS/ valve block had a faulty valve. They overnighted the part from Cali and I had my car back Thursday. If you are waiting more than a day or two I would raise hell, I had it fixed the next day!!

I may be crazy but I think the car feels better than before he problem showed up. I can't say what specifically, but it feels like I am getting more feedback. So far I am very happy to say the least!!

thank goodness it was fixed quickly

biggerkahuna
12-05-2010, 11:55 PM
It's been about a week since I've checked what's been going on in the forum.

As an update, I picked up my car on Saturday after about two weeks. The valve block unit had been replace and so far so good. I haven't had a chance to drive it around much since I got it but things seem to be okay so far. I"m going to give it a few days before I'm really going to be really believe that the problem is gone.

While they were doing the fix, the thought came to mind that if the valve block is really the issue, I can't believe the root cause of the problem can be fixed so quickly and easily. I would assume that the supplier for this part (I'm guessing a sub tier supplier) would first have to diagnose what's faulty with the unit, perform some sort of redesign, and then re-release the part. Pulling one of the current valve block units off the shelf would result in just reinstalling a faulty part and thus a short term fix.

Maybe that's just me being pessimistic. I really do hope this is the end of it. Only time will tell.

johnbmw6
12-06-2010, 01:53 AM
It's been about a week since I've checked what's been going on in the forum.

As an update, I picked up my car on Saturday after about two weeks. The valve block unit had been replace and so far so good. I haven't had a chance to drive it around much since I got it but things seem to be okay so far. I"m going to give it a few days before I'm really going to be really believe that the problem is gone.

While they were doing the fix, the thought came to mind that if the valve block is really the issue, I can't believe the root cause of the problem can be fixed so quickly and easily. I would assume that the supplier for this part (I'm guessing a sub tier supplier) would first have to diagnose what's faulty with the unit, perform some sort of redesign, and then re-release the part. Pulling one of the current valve block units off the shelf would result in just reinstalling a faulty part and thus a short term fix.

Maybe that's just me being pessimistic. I really do hope this is the end of it. Only time will tell.No not pessimistic just practical in your interpretation, I agree with what you say.:thumbup:

Needsdecaf
12-06-2010, 04:42 AM
It is amazing how the poor steering also has reliability issues. So unfortunate, and one must question BMW's judgement here.

Except it's not the steering. It's the suspension. It's not related to the Electric Power Steering in any way.

Oh, and the ARS system has been around since the previous generation 7 series.

Needsdecaf
12-06-2010, 04:43 AM
It's been about a week since I've checked what's been going on in the forum.

As an update, I picked up my car on Saturday after about two weeks. The valve block unit had been replace and so far so good. I haven't had a chance to drive it around much since I got it but things seem to be okay so far. I"m going to give it a few days before I'm really going to be really believe that the problem is gone.

While they were doing the fix, the thought came to mind that if the valve block is really the issue, I can't believe the root cause of the problem can be fixed so quickly and easily. I would assume that the supplier for this part (I'm guessing a sub tier supplier) would first have to diagnose what's faulty with the unit, perform some sort of redesign, and then re-release the part. Pulling one of the current valve block units off the shelf would result in just reinstalling a faulty part and thus a short term fix.

Maybe that's just me being pessimistic. I really do hope this is the end of it. Only time will tell.

Not necessarily.

It may not be an issue with a bad design. It could be an issue with bad manufacturing.

jimefam
12-06-2010, 04:56 AM
Not necessarily.

It may not be an issue with a bad design. It could be an issue with bad manufacturing.

I believe this to be correct. If you think back this problem didn't surface until October and the 5 has been out much longer than that. So for the first few months everything was fine and then they must have produced a bad batch. I hope this fixes the problem as it was super irritating to have a new car feel broken.

sambb
12-06-2010, 05:15 AM
I believe this to be correct. If you think back this problem didn't surface until October and the 5 has been out much longer than that. So for the first few months everything was fine and then they must have produced a bad batch. I hope this fixes the problem as it was super irritating to have a new car feel broken.

Manufacturing is traditionally a strength of german cars, so this is really an interesting comment. Has something happened in production that a bad batch could be produced?

brandonw
12-06-2010, 06:26 AM
I have my service appointment on Wednesday to have a ARS/Valve Block installed, per BMW authorizing the repair. I will post any information I get after I get my car back.

Needsdecaf
12-06-2010, 06:29 AM
Manufacturing is traditionally a strength of german cars, so this is really an interesting comment. Has something happened in production that a bad batch could be produced?

This is a component made by an outside manufacturer (as are many). Subject to it's own reliability issues.

Emilner
12-06-2010, 06:35 AM
Say more on this Emilner. How many miles did you have on your car when this happened? And did it happen out of the blue? Also, any idea as to how intrusive the fix was, like how big the part was and what else did they have to take apart to get in there etc.?

It is kind of a bummer that we would all now be waiting for it to die so that it gives a code for the service people to act on.

I had roughly 1400 miles on the car. The noise appeared 3-4 times and then one day while driving the warnings came on. It did not sound too obtrusive, they had the part delivered and installed by noon. No idea on what the install entails, not my end of the business.

johnbmw6
12-06-2010, 06:37 AM
This is a component made by an outside manufacturer (as are many). Subject to it's own reliability issues.
I fear if this is correct, that issues like these could potentially crop up more and more, if quality control is lax.
So many Car manufacturers "Out source" parts from cheap labour areas, they can not keep an eye on quality control.
The issue with BMW and tyres holding up production!!!! just what's that all about, poor organisation that's what. :eek:
In the long run this causes extra costs and potential lost sales.

Emilner
12-06-2010, 06:41 AM
It is amazing how the poor steering also has reliability issues. So unfortunate, and one must question BMW's judgement here.

GO AWAY. Seriously, can't you tell when EVERYONE does not want your opinion? You are like a parrot that just keeps sqauking the same garbage over and over. The steering is not poor, I find it perfect for me, never had one problem with it. As far as this issue-IT HAPPENS. No car is perfect. In the first 90 days an average car will have 1-1.2 problems with it- that's life. I've had new MB's and they all had an issue or two that needs to be fixed- that is why you have a warranty! No manu is perfect- my LS430 went back for a major engine over haul with less than 10k on it (valves problem).

Until YOU actually own a new f10 and have your own experiences stop guessing about others. The sampling you see on the forum is only a very small percentage of cars out there (and people on forums tend to be picky, looking for an answer to a problem or fanatical)....

moonsault270
12-06-2010, 06:44 AM
All that aside, at least it seems as though the problem has been identified and can be rectified. My appointment is tomorrow morning.

Emilner
12-06-2010, 06:44 AM
I fear if this is correct, that issues like these could potentially crop up more and more, if quality control is lax.
So many Car manufacturers "Out source" parts from cheap labour areas, they can not keep an eye on quality control.
The issue with BMW and tyres holding up production!!!! just what's that all about, poor organisation that's what. :eek:
In the long run this causes extra costs and potential lost sales.

Every company outsources some of the components. It is impossible for a car manufacturer to make every part for the car. Same goes for other companies. Apple makes almost nothing on the iPad nearly every single part is made by another company- it is even assembled by another company. It is how they QC the manu process that counts. Sounds like a bad batch of parts was made, the key is finding the problem and fixing it at the source- I doubt it will impact sales at all...

Needsdecaf
12-06-2010, 07:29 AM
Every company outsources some of the components. It is impossible for a car manufacturer to make every part for the car. Same goes for other companies. Apple makes almost nothing on the iPad nearly every single part is made by another company- it is even assembled by another company. It is how they QC the manu process that counts. Sounds like a bad batch of parts was made, the key is finding the problem and fixing it at the source- I doubt it will impact sales at all...

Exactly.

I'd like to see a study of car manufacturers showing what's made in house and what's subbed out (even to a wholly owned supplier).

All the manufacturers do it, it's just how cars are made these days. And QC is baked in there, it's just not on the manufacturer per-se. But you'd better believe it's in the supply contract!

I believe that outsourcing to smaller, more nimble and more specialized companies for large scale manufacturing like this is a good thing. Keeps the $$ down, keeps the quality up, generally.

Nelquan
12-06-2010, 09:27 AM
Emilner/Biggerkahuna...this is great news...seems as though the problem has been identified (really, really hoping this to be true). My car is still in the shop with the valve block unit ordered as of last Friday.

Solstice/Moonsault270...send us an update as soon as your cqars come out and you've driven them for a few days.

sambb
12-06-2010, 09:29 AM
This is a component made by an outside manufacturer (as are many). Subject to it's own reliability issues.

It would be interesting to know what outside components BMW relies on. FOr example, it is well known that GM makes the auto transmission on a certain 3 series.

For outside components, i wonder if that explains some of the poor reliability scores that BMW has encountered lately.

Emilner
12-06-2010, 10:39 AM
It would be interesting to know what outside components BMW relies on. FOr example, it is well known that GM makes the auto transmission on a certain 3 series.

For outside components, i wonder if that explains some of the poor reliability scores that BMW has encountered lately.

They usually make very few components soup to nuts. They assemble them from parts made by other companies. They may assemble the engine, but they don't make the pistons...

jimefam
12-06-2010, 10:45 AM
go away. Seriously, can't you tell when everyone does not want your opinion? You are like a parrot that just keeps sqauking the same garbage over and over. The steering is not poor, i find it perfect for me, never had one problem with it. As far as this issue-it happens. No car is perfect. In the first 90 days an average car will have 1-1.2 problems with it- that's life. I've had new mb's and they all had an issue or two that needs to be fixed- that is why you have a warranty! No manu is perfect- my ls430 went back for a major engine over haul with less than 10k on it (valves problem).

Until you actually own a new f10 and have your own experiences stop guessing about others. The sampling you see on the forum is only a very small percentage of cars out there (and people on forums tend to be picky, looking for an answer to a problem or fanatical)....

+1000000000!!

solstice
12-06-2010, 11:28 AM
I just spoke to my dealer and they think my car will be ready for me later today. I also opened a case with bmwna regarding compensation/replacement for this problematic car. My dealer told me that they'll support me 100% since this has been unacceptable for a bmw. I'll keep you updated if the grinding seems fixed when I've driven the car for a couple of days. Good luck to you all!

kocsis
12-06-2010, 11:38 AM
solstice, was it a defective ars or something else?

schlagle
12-06-2010, 01:31 PM
I'm so effing glad we seem to be finally honing in the fix for this. It's embarrassing and annoying. And since my wife will be the primary driver with my son on board I hope that it is only a minor issue and not something that will cause catastrophic failure while driving.

The minute I read about a real solution my cars goes in to the shop.

For those of you who haven't read that I picked up my car... Tasmin Green with every single package. I tried listening for the grind before we took possession but didn't hear a thing. 2 days later and there it was :( Now I can duplicate it almost at will.

solstice
12-06-2010, 01:51 PM
I'm so effing glad we seem to be finally honing in the fix for this. It's embarrassing and annoying. And since my wife will be the primary driver with my son on board I hope that it is only a minor issue and not something that will cause catastrophic failure while driving.

The minute I read about a real solution my cars goes in to the shop.

For those of you who haven't read that I picked up my car... Tasmin Green with every single package. I tried listening for the grind before we took possession but didn't hear a thing. 2 days later and there it was :( Now I can duplicate it almost at will.

In my case it has been suspected to be the ars valve block for a long time. The concern is that I now have my third brand new valve block installed and that there seem to be brand new cars still being delivered with this issue. It seems that currently it's like playing roulette on a single number when getting a valve block. If your number comes up you get a working one otherwise join the defective group...

sambb
12-06-2010, 02:22 PM
In my case it has been suspected to be the ars valve block for a long time. The concern is that I now have my third brand new valve block installed and that there seem to be brand new cars still being delivered with this issue. It seems that currently it's like playing roulette on a single number when getting a valve block. If your number comes up you get a working one otherwise join the defective group...

Yep, no one should have to pay roulette with a car like this, or any car for that matter. Perhaps someone from BMW who is reading this board can look into this unfortunate issue. It is not fun when one's new car suffers such problems and spends time in the shop.

Joe F.
12-06-2010, 02:26 PM
Hey mine has been in the shop for over a month just like soltice and I have called BMW North America so many times...It is so hard to get in touch with the case managers....I am so over this car...Just really disappointed with BMW on this one.

sambb
12-06-2010, 02:31 PM
Hey mine has been in the shop for over a month just like soltice and I have called BMW North America so many times...It is so hard to get in touch with the case managers....I am so over this car...Just really disappointed with BMW on this one.

I wasnt aware of this, but JD power and consumer reports have commented on the poor reliability of BMW automobiles (not that MB or audi were better). Hopefully this isn;t a harbinger of the future. I chalk the errors up to "first year blues", we'll see what happens in 2012 models. Best of luck for your repairs, and be sure to report back on exactly what they are when completed.

moonsault270
12-06-2010, 02:32 PM
Printing relevant portions of this thread as we speak to bring to service center tomorrow morning. Wish me luck!

Emilner
12-06-2010, 03:47 PM
Hey mine has been in the shop for over a month just like soltice and I have called BMW North America so many times...It is so hard to get in touch with the case managers....I am so over this car...Just really disappointed with BMW on this one.

The blocks are readily available, you should not have to wait for it!!

solstice
12-06-2010, 04:42 PM
I just spoke to my dealer and they think my car will be ready for me later today. I also opened a case with bmwna regarding compensation/replacement for this problematic car. My dealer told me that they'll support me 100% since this has been unacceptable for a bmw. I'll keep you updated if the grinding seems fixed when I've driven the car for a couple of days. Good luck to you all!

Just drove my car for the first time since I got it back. So far so good with no grinding noise but it was just a short drive so it's not a reliable evidence of a fix yet. I saw something else though, it sat on 16.3 mpg and when I drove it it went down to 16.0 mpg :yikes: Hopefully it's just a matter of getting it back to the normal 20 mpg after what seems like punishing test drives...

Nelquan
12-06-2010, 09:01 PM
Valve Blocks readily available??? My dealership says they placed one on order last Friday and haven't located one yet. So frustrating. 2 weeks in the shop and counting. Keep us updated Solstice! Sounds promising.

Emilner
12-07-2010, 06:59 AM
My car was in the shop for 24 hours. The block (or whatever it is) was overnighted from Cali to NY and installed the next morning. I can't see why the dealer cannot find one. My SA said they have seen this on a couple of cars now. I asked if I was going to have to wait as there seems to be a shortage of parts. He told me they sometimes have it locally, but always have it available by overnight...

brandonw
12-07-2010, 08:27 AM
Well, as I have been scheduled for over a week (with BMWNA approval) to have my ARS/Valve Block replaced tomorrow, I decided to check with them to see if the part had come in.

I am told upon them checking that there are none in the US at this time. Though one is on order for me. See below email:

Brandon,

Unfortunately the part is not here yet. There are not any in the US at this time. I apologize for any inconveniences this may cause. I was unaware of any issues ordering these valve blocks. On a positive side, hopefully they are not currently available because they remanufacturing/redesigning them to no longer fail.

Once we have the part. We will contact you to schedule the appointment.

Happy Holidays,

salamigs
12-07-2010, 08:29 AM
So for those of you who had a chance to have a chat with your service advisors on this one. Did any one of you ask about the time criticailty of the fix? In other words, if the fix is delayed to a certain extent, would it cause any other bad things to happen, or create additional issues down the road?

moonsault270
12-07-2010, 09:15 AM
Well I just got back from dropping off the car. Foreman jumped in with me and the grind happened on our first turn. He told me that they were aware of the problem and that a wire needed to be insulated. I quickly pulled out my copy of this thread and showed him that it is almost gauranteed to be a defective valve block. He was very open to it and said he would definately look into it with BMWNA.

He did check the availablity of the part and like Brandon, I was told there are none in the U.S. I was advised that they should insulate whatever should be insulated anyway and they would look into the Valave Block Replacement. Should have more news tomorrow.

BTW I meant to ask about a steering software update but forgot. I have a post sept build... I am unclear as to if the post septs have an update already or not. Not that I have any problem with steering. I requested a 335IX coupe as a laoner and let me tell you, it just reaffirms how awesome my 535 is (minus the grinding).

Nelquan
12-07-2010, 11:02 AM
FYI...they are also going to replace the sway bars on my vehicle in addition to the valve block, which all of you are aware is on order.

Wonder how long it's going to take to get the valve block...at least it seems as though they'll actually work this time around (I hope).

salamigs
12-07-2010, 11:17 AM
Nelquan, why replace the sway bars? Was there additional damage to them during this process? Or are they just shooting in the dark to be sure?

Nelquan
12-07-2010, 11:25 AM
My guess is that they're shooting, but yes, trying to be sure. I have a call into service to drill down on the exact details - why, what, how, when, etc. That discussion will also consist of a lot of "Are you definitively sure(s)?" Stay Tuned...and everyone, please keep sharing whatever info you get.

salamigs
12-07-2010, 11:28 AM
Nelquan, if it is not going to be a major trouble for you, can you ask them as to what the worst thing that would have happened had you not gone through this service at this point in time, and put it off a bit? Other than the annoying grinding noise I mean?
Thanks in advance.

Nelquan
12-07-2010, 11:40 AM
Sure, will do.

But I can only imagine that you're not doing your car any favors by continuing to drive it the way it is. It's broken my man - plain and simple. Trust me, I miss my new baby. It may be an inconvenience, but drop it off and take the loaner.

brandonw
12-07-2010, 12:26 PM
Response from my dealer about me asking when the part would be available...

"At this time I do not. Apparently BMWNA sent out a message in the last few days stating these are not currently available. Typically when something goes on backorder it is only a week or two. "

solstice
12-07-2010, 12:28 PM
Response from my dealer about me asking when the part would be available...

"At this time I do not. Apparently BMWNA sent out a message in the last few days stating these are not currently available. Typically when something goes on backorder it is only a week or two. "

Very interresting. Redesign going on at ZF? At the numerous orders from Germany for my car it has been about a week from order to arrival.

solstice
12-08-2010, 10:01 AM
I'm sorry to report that I counted to three instances of the grinding this morning. I guess it could still be lone occassions but this is exhausting and time consuming so I will not bring the car in again for a while in any case. I'm now waiting for bmwna to call me regarding a potential settlement.

Nelquan
12-08-2010, 10:04 AM
UGH!!!!! Nuff said.

solstice
12-08-2010, 10:19 AM
UGH!!!!! Nuff said.

Oh yeah, I also now get between 16-18 mpg on my daily commute. It thought it was just temporary after the service but it seems to be the new mileage. I have no idea if it's the new sw and a computer glitch or something with all the repairs. Sigh.

lagjazz
12-08-2010, 12:27 PM
I had the same issue with my 2007 E60, making obvious humming noise when making turns in low speed, no matter if the car was warm or cold, no matter if I was going forward or backup, no matter if I was turning left or right.

So I dropped off my car at the dealer this morning and just picked it up, problem fixed, drove back to work didn't hear any noise, the solution was "TOP UP POWER STEERING OIL".

Feels good again. :thumbup:

jimefam
12-08-2010, 12:29 PM
Yup that MUST be it. Solstice go top off the power steering fluid!

solstice
12-08-2010, 12:32 PM
I had the same issue with my 2007 E60, making obvious humming noise when making turns in low speed, no matter if the car was warm or cold, no matter if I was going forward or backup, no matter if I was turning left or right.

So I dropped off my car at the dealer this morning and just picked it up, problem fixed, drove back to work didn't hear any noise, the solution was "TOP UP POWER STEERING OIL".

Feels good again. :thumbup:

Yeah, the hydraulic steering cars share pump with ars so if hydraulic oil is low for steering it will be low for ars as well. I got EPS and a separate ars pump which has been replaced once and the oil flushed and filled up several times. It's not low oil in my case. I can see how the symptoms can be similar though if there is insufficient oil or the oil is sent in the wrong or multiple directions due to malfunctioning valve action. One is easy to solve the other not so easy it seems.

CarBrain
12-08-2010, 06:49 PM
If solstice still has the problem after the fix, then we are still in square one. I have the same problem but after reading your recent post, I am still reluctant to bring it in for service. This is so frustrating.

moonsault270
12-08-2010, 06:50 PM
Well I picked my car up this afternoon and am happy to report I did not hear a single peep driving home. Granted it was only a few miles so I am trying not to be overly optimistic but the grind happened so regularly its hard not to be. If I weren't so tired I would go take it for a spin right now. I've been sneaking out on late night joy rides since I got it she's getting suspicious!

My commute in the A.M. is a decent trip so I will post tomorrow morning.

I did not have the Valve Block replaced. The exact wording from work order " Inspected undercarriage and found ARS pressure line rattling against fuel tank. Installed rubber sleeve over pressure line and added foam padding".

I recall others saying some wire/line was insulated with no luck. Same one?

BTW - Service center at Bayside was great.

moonsault270
12-08-2010, 07:00 PM
Hey Guys...its been a couple of weeks....here's the update...

Got a call from dealer, and by the way, I love this dealer...they are awesome!!

They mentioned that they have been following the problem and had a fix. The fix was to insulate the cable heading toward the rear and put something on the fuel tank (the same as the prior fixes described above). I drove around with the tech and did not hear a thing after the "fix." Something that does not seem to be a coincidence is that it was 71 degrees here in Cincy when I drove around with the tech after the "fix." Now, one day later, at 40+ degrees, I hear the sound again as I always did.

This has to be something triggered or at least enhanced by the weather. Every time I hear the sound, it is cold outside. I do not hear the sound when it is 70+ outside. Unfortunately, the past three times I have taken it in, they test drive it when it was warm outside and did not hear the sound.

They know it is happening because of complaints and this blog, so it's not an issue of belief, it's an issue of being able to replicate and fix it.

So, short story, insulation does not work! It has to be something else.

Keep us informed if/when you have a fix!!!

Just re-read the forum becuase I knew I remembered hearing about insulating a cable. It was in the 30's today. Again short trip home but again I heard the noise pretty much every turn. Pure speculation but maybe they didnt do a great job with the insulation. Im really hoping i NEVER hear that noise again.

Im going to do a few laps around the block now!

salamigs
12-08-2010, 08:46 PM
I am keeping my fingers crossed for you moonsault. How long did the service appointment take?

Just like moonsault, after re-reading all these posts, I am thinking that we may be facing multiple issues here. And nfortunately it is very hard to calibrate the issues among each other unless we get creative. There is grinding and grinding, and we will all put it down as grinding, although they may be very different feelings and sounds. The best way for calibration, that comes to my mind at least, is video (or audio) record the sound and post it somewhere? Any other ideas?

And moonsault, the verdict after the few rounds?

solstice
12-08-2010, 10:27 PM
I think we now have three cars that are still ok after two different fixes. Biggerkahuna's and emilner's with new valve blocks and moonsault's with added insulation.
Another curve ball is that my car did not have the noise until my ars pump and valve block was replaced. Same insulation before and after as far a I know. It could be different issues but what are the odds? So far I have one day with no noise and one day with noise. I'll report back how it evolves since I'm not bringing my car back again until I'm sure the issue persists and at what frequency. I also need to verify mileage manually to check if it's my computer that is effed up or if my car now thinks it's a 550...

moonsault270
12-09-2010, 06:10 AM
Positive verdict. Nothing last night and nothing driving in this morning. I dropped my car in Tues around noon and got it back next day at 3:30.

It very well may be several different problems that we are all reporting as 'the grind". Tough to imagine that if everyone here is experiencing what i was, that it wouldn't have been discovered fairly quickly as it seemed to be a simple fix.

I told the foreman valve block this ARS that when i brought it in and he was pretty confident that it wasn't the problem.

nlk10010
12-09-2010, 07:41 AM
Well I picked my car up this afternoon and am happy to report I did not hear a single peep driving home. Granted it was only a few miles so I am trying not to be overly optimistic but the grind happened so regularly its hard not to be. If I weren't so tired I would go take it for a spin right now. I've been sneaking out on late night joy rides since I got it she's getting suspicious!

My commute in the A.M. is a decent trip so I will post tomorrow morning.

I did not have the Valve Block replaced. The exact wording from work order " Inspected undercarriage and found ARS pressure line rattling against fuel tank. Installed rubber sleeve over pressure line and added foam padding".

I recall others saying some wire/line was insulated with no luck. Same one?

BTW - Service center at Bayside was great.

Well, you know, the E60 (mine and others) also exhibits a grinding/rubbing noise when turning right or left at low speeds, especially when it's cold. I haven't been able to find a way to reproduce the problem reliably so it hasn't been addressed yet, but you might want to peruse the E60 forums to see if anyone else had it diagnosed and repaired. It may simply be an issue with a particular design characteristic that spans model years, don't know.

BTW, ditto with Bayside. At least with them you stand a chance of getting things done correctly, as opposed to the clowns in Westbury.

Nelquan
12-09-2010, 09:31 AM
You guys will recall that I had the insulation done as a first "fix."...got the car back the same day and was thrilled as I didnt hear anything...and yes, the report was the same...rear ARS line rubbing against fuel tank. Didnt hear anything for two days and then it came back.

They just replaced (2 days ago) the sway bars (they had these parts available) and both foremen heard the sounds again so new sway bars doesnt fix it. I'm now waiting on the new valve block and we'll see where that puts me. Maybe some combination of all three things will do the trick. I'm still driving around this loaner (3 series) and it seems like everyday I'm seeing a new f10 on the road. So jealous of the folks that aren't going what we're going through. Will keep you guys posted as usual.

x5 '08
12-09-2010, 10:00 AM
When do you go for lemon law?

solstice
12-09-2010, 10:14 AM
My car is definately better after the last valve block ( so far ). Today I only heard/felt it once and rather faint compared to before. But just knowing that it's lurking there is enough to spoil it for me. Regarding lemon law I would recommend to first contact bmwna and see what options they offer. I'm waiting for them to call me back any day now with a verdict in my case. Otherwise lemon law differs some from state to state but I think 30 days or more in the shop will qualify in most places.

x5 '08
12-09-2010, 01:19 PM
Well, you know, the E60 (mine and others) also exhibits a grinding/rubbing noise when turning right or left at low speeds, especially when it's cold. I haven't been able to find a way to reproduce the problem reliably so it hasn't been addressed yet, but you might want to peruse the E60 forums to see if anyone else had it diagnosed and repaired. It may simply be an issue with a particular design characteristic that spans model years, don't know.

BTW, ditto with Bayside. At least with them you stand a chance of getting things done correctly, as opposed to the clowns in Westbury.

Who do you guys deal with at Bayside? I brought my 1 day old M Sport back to dealer today and could not reproduce the problem. They suggested I may be spending too much time reading these forums. :yikes:

nlk10010
12-09-2010, 01:33 PM
Who do you guys deal with at Bayside? I brought my 1 day old M Sport back to dealer today and could not reproduce the problem. They suggested I may be spending too much time reading these forums. :yikes:

Who did you talk to? I have dealt with Steve Itkin (who is aware I frequent dealerrater.com) and this last time I had a guy called Marc, I believe. I feel that they are at least reasonably honest. Hell, I didn't even buy my car from them and when I had a low coolant warning I drove over to buy some, started talking to Marlo and she told me to drive the car in, they'd top up the coolant and oil, no charge. Man, the economy is turning this into "bizarro world".

Look, I still don't trust even the best of dealers as far as I can throw them. If you can reproduce the problem (or they can) and they still refuse to acknowledge it then I would get real pi**ed. If you can't reproduce it then it's a rare SA (I'm sure they exist, I still haven't found one) who will diagnose and be able to correct an issue as relatively new as this.

My standard for contemptible service behavior is telling a customer something is wrong then, when they are unable to fix it, lie by writing on the service order that everything's normal. That's Rallye. I haven't gotten that kind of behavior (yet) from Bayside.

OTOH, if you reproduced the groan for Bayside and they still wouldn't do anything then I would go somewhere else.

Good Luck.

Dr.Y
12-09-2010, 02:01 PM
Just wanted to throw myself in on this one. I have the grinding noise/feeling when I turn the wheel on my 2011 535 and had the dealership look into it. My car also tends toward the right at times. The manager called and stated that there is no particular fix known for the grinding (I gave him the data from this awesome thread) and to let them assess it. I am actually giving it to a closer dealership tomorrow. I love this car but really expect close to perfection for the cost. I will let you know what happens. If they can't fix this I will be in touch with BMW customer service again and won't rest until I get answers. Interestingly, an M5 forum said stated that when M differential fluid was used and the noise went away. I am way out of my technical league here so don't know if this is totally different or not.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-touring-discussion/87780-grinding-noise-when-turning.html

x5 '08
12-09-2010, 08:06 PM
Who did you talk to? I have dealt with Steve Itkin (who is aware I frequent dealerrater.com) and this last time I had a guy called Marc, I believe. I feel that they are at least reasonably honest. Hell, I didn't even buy my car from them and when I had a low coolant warning I drove over to buy some, started talking to Marlo and she told me to drive the car in, they'd top up the coolant and oil, no charge. Man, the economy is turning this into "bizarro world".

Look, I still don't trust even the best of dealers as far as I can throw them. If you can reproduce the problem (or they can) and they still refuse to acknowledge it then I would get real pi**ed. If you can't reproduce it then it's a rare SA (I'm sure they exist, I still haven't found one) who will diagnose and be able to correct an issue as relatively new as this.

My standard for contemptible service behavior is telling a customer something is wrong then, when they are unable to fix it, lie by writing on the service order that everything's normal. That's Rallye. I haven't gotten that kind of behavior (yet) from Bayside.

OTOH, if you reproduced the groan for Bayside and they still wouldn't do anything then I would go somewhere else.

Good Luck.

I went to a dealer in NJ. They were actually great fixing my 2008 535 with the turbo issue but are questioning this issue, I guess because it is still so new. I imagine I will have to give it to them for a few days to drive so they can see for themselves.

moonsault270
12-10-2010, 07:02 AM
Martin at BMW Bayside helped me. Had a long day in the car yesterday and nothing then or this morning.

x5 '08- you could not reproduce the noise? In my case the grinding was so severe and frequent it was impossible not to reproduce. I could not get the car to NOT make the noise.

Nelquan had the same fix as me- insulating the ARS line, which worked temporarily.

I would love to hear the thoughts of those who have some knowledge of the mechanical workings of cars. Im slightly embarrased to admit, but I know how to fill up the gas tank and drive! Thats pretty much the extent of my knowledge.

What I can say with 100% certainty is that my car is not making the noise any longer. Insulating the line absolutley corrected (or at worst reduced) the loud frequent issue I was having. Now whether or not this fix is permanent (which was not the case with Nelquan) It would lead me to beleive that a rubbing line is the culprit.

For all my experts: What exactly is an ARS line. Where does it run from and to? Are there more than one? What I am getting at is perhaps the ARS line is rubbing on the gas tank resulting in a serious grinding/vibration noise. That after it was inslulated the noise was either eliminated (in my case -knock on wood) or significantly reduced like nelquan. Perhaps the line is rubbing somewhere else as well. Maybe the entire line getting insulated would solve the problem?

Nelquan- After the grinding came back was it just as bad? Possible that its not vibrating on the tank anymore but elsewhere?

Maybe the noise experienced by x5 '08 is not a result of it grinding against the gas tank but somewhere else? That would explain why it doesnt appear to be as severe or frequent?

In Solctices case maybe when they replaced the valve block they didnt do a great job running the line and its vibrating against the tank and or something else? Would they have to mess with the line when switching the block?

Just my shot in the dark. Would love to hear from somebody with a little more expertise to either shoot my theory down or back it up as a possibility.

BimmerUKF10
12-10-2010, 07:25 AM
Would be nice if the insulation fix is the solution! As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm not taking my F10 in to get this fixed until the problem has properly been identified. Don't like the idea of having major parts like the valve block replaced on a trial and error basis!

Nelquan
12-10-2010, 08:36 AM
When they did the insulation "fix," the sound did remain, but yes, it was reduced - so perhaps it wasnt enough or perhpas it wasnt in all the right places. I'm now waiting for this valve block, but to Solstice's issue and BimmerUK's stance, I am a bit concerned about them replacing the valve block if they dont TRULY know whether or not that is the issue. I feel as though my vehicle has turned into some type of "lab rat" and that they're simply hoping that "something" will ultimately fix the problem.

BimmerUKF10
12-10-2010, 09:00 AM
I feel as though my vehicle has turned into some type of "lab rat" and that they're simply hoping that "something" will ultimately fix the problem.

:thumbdwn:
Exactly why I'm not letting them near mine until there is something definative in terms of a fix.

moonsault270
12-10-2010, 09:13 AM
I would be hesitant to let them do the valve block if its not confirmed to be the root of the problem.

Nelquan, what made them go ahead and authorize a block replacement? What exactly was reduced? Severity, frequency or both? I mean we know that the line rubbed and after insulation it was better. Maybe the block has nothing to do with it. Solstice already had his replaced 2 or 3 times.

Bimmerukf10 - I would let them just move the line and insulate off the gas tank. My car was in the shop one day no big deal. Definate improvement..whether its fixed or not time will tell. My car was basically undriveable, maybe yours is not so bad.

Nelquan
12-10-2010, 09:49 AM
Exactly, this is what I'm still trying to figure out - Why ARE we replacing the valve block?....and have not yet gotten a straight/detailed answer from the Service Dept yet. Have a call in to them right now...It's as if they know something and they're not telling me, or frankly that they dont know anything at all.

As for the reduction, it was reduced noise and feel, but the frequency hadn't really changed...it has always been intermittent and unpredictable. I could go an entire day without anything and then Bam! Other times it would be twice in a day.

moonsault270
12-10-2010, 10:04 AM
Gotcha. I thought maybe you instructed them to replace the valve block as a result of our findings here. Seems very odd that they would replace it without finding something wrong with it. Would love to hear what explination they give you.