Update on start problem

[Claresecl]

I just spoke with my SA, and was told that they are going to replace the fuel pump in my car. I said "So, is that what the problem is?" He hesitated and said "Yeah, there is not a lot of fuel being sent through this car."

The big question is: Will replacing the fuel pump make my car start on the first try each and every time?

Stay tuned for the answer... For now, I'll be styling in my '04 Nissan Sentra :cry:

[Kaz]

I'm not familiar with the original problem but has the fuel filter/regulator been examined? If this was an older car I would suggest checking the fuel system for air leaks but these days OBDII is mandated to detect such things.

[Claresecl]

If you're having fuel pump problems, the car would idle rough and die out of no where since fuel isn't being delivered to the engine, then you'd have problem just to get the engine started.

I've rarely seen fuel pumps that fail partially, and only on start-up. :dunno:

That is why I'm not convinced that the problem will be fixed. The only time I have had a rough idle was on Friday. After I finally got the car started, she didn't really feel like going. I drove around at about 10mph for a bit, then she was back to her old self. I've never had any idle problems nor problems on takeoff. Additionally, the starter problem typically only occurs at cold start.

[Claresecl]

I'm not familiar with the original problem but has the fuel filter/regulator been examined? If this was an older car I would suggest checking the fuel system for air leaks but these days OBDII is mandated to detect such things.

I'm not sure what they have checked, but I'm sure they are doing what they can to trouble shoot and get me out of their hair.. The car is 6 months old and only has 5,000 miles on it...

[The HACK]

That is why I'm not convinced that the problem will be fixed. The only time I have had a rough idle was on Friday. After I finally got the car started, she didn't really feel like going. I drove around at about 10mph for a bit, then she was back to her old self. I've never had any idle problems nor problems on takeoff. Additionally, the starter problem typically only occurs at cold start.
Did it happen after 1) The car was previously started, and shut down immediately within a few minutes and 2) car then was left to sit for an extended period of time?

If so then it's a normal occurance. What ended up happening is there's residual fuel unburnt inside the intake manifold, and the next time the car is fired up there's too much fuel in the mix causing the car to run incredibly RICH. It would also make turning the engine over on start difficult.

[Kaz]

Hmm, I dunno if hot starts due to unburned fuel is normal anymore. With all the regulations on evaporative controls and such, you'd think those kinds of poblems would, if they happen, get caught by the system and dump codes. Missing cylinders, clogged injectors, etc. would seem to be easy to catch nowadays.

[Claresecl]

Did it happen after 1) The car was previously started, and shut down immediately within a few minutes and 2) car then was left to sit for an extended period of time?



No and no. The car had sat overnight, as usual. I went to start it for work in the morning. First, I turned the key - it caught but stalled. I tried turning the key again - it turned over and over, but would not catch. I went in and called roadside assistance, went back out and tried again. Same thing happened. I waited 5 minutes and tried again. Same thing. Finally, I tried again and it started (after turning over a few times).

I would find it pretty disappointing if it is normal for a new car to have that much difficulty starting after sitting even for a few days. I can tell you that my '02 Honda Civic always started at first turn - whether it had been sitting for a week or 10 minutes :dunno:

[Claresecl]

I've rarely seen fuel pumps that fail partially, and only on start-up. :dunno:

Fuel pump was not the problem. He has gone back to the drawing board. Said he was in the process of trying to get a hold of BMW. Ugh!

[The HACK]

I would find it pretty disappointing if it is normal for a new car to have that much difficulty starting after sitting even for a few days. I can tell you that my '02 Honda Civic always started at first turn - whether it had been sitting for a week or 10 minutes :dunno:
Whatever it's causing it is not what I was speculating.

And if the battery is drained or whatever, after that first crank effort and it didn't turn over immediately, then you wouldn't have been able to turn the engine over again. Can't imagine what is causing it, and my speculation is that it's certainly not the fuel pump...Unless the cold had cause a contact to loosen up in the fuel pump motor, and lose intermitten contact and thus when you turn it over the first few times, it didn't turn but later when you tried again, temperature or condition may have changed enough to cause the intermitten contact to remain stable thus allowing the fuel pump to come back to life.

Did you hear the fuel pump "whirring" when you turn the key the first few times, and the car didn't start? :dunno:

Hmm, I dunno if hot starts due to unburned fuel is normal anymore. With all the regulations on evaporative controls and such, you'd think those kinds of poblems would, if they happen, get caught by the system and dump codes. Missing cylinders, clogged injectors, etc. would seem to be easy to catch nowadays.
It was just a speculation, but it's been happening on the Red Ci lately now that car only sees action once or twice a week...I'd fire it up just to move it out of the way, next morning I'd get some serious rough idles, until the car warms up a bit. Maybe it's the cam sensors since her CEL has been tripping on and off for a while.

[Jetfire]

Fuel pump was not the problem. He has gone back to the drawing board. Said he was in the process of trying to get a hold of BMW. Ugh!
At least they are able to recereate the problem. I wonder what else the SA has tried? Checking for spark, fuel lines, fuel filter, etc...

[Claresecl]

Did you hear the fuel pump "whirring" when you turn the key the first few times, and the car didn't start? :dunno:




I wish I could answer that, but I wouldn't know what to listen for. I didn't think it was the fuel pump, and I suspect that my SA didn't think it was either (given his reaction to my question about whether that was the problem). It worries me that they cannot trouble shoot the problem, and I have my doubts as to whether it is going to be fixed before they give up and give the car back.

[JetBlack330i]

Have you tried asking the <HREF src="http://cartalk.cars.com/Radio/Back-Tracks/">Magliozzi brothers (http://cartalk.cars.com/Radio/Back-Tracks/)</HREF>?
At the very least you'd get some entertaining suggestions.

[Claresecl]

Have you tried asking the <HREF src="http://cartalk.cars.com/Radio/Back-Tracks/">Magliozzi brothers (http://cartalk.cars.com/Radio/Back-Tracks/)</HREF>?
At the very least you'd get some entertaining suggestions.

Oy! Please don't let it come to that!!

[Claresecl]

Fuel pump was not the problem. He has gone back to the drawing board. Said he was in the process of trying to get a hold of BMW. Ugh!

More... I spoke with my SA yesterday. They are replacing the fuel regulator. I have my doubts, but we'll see what happens...

[The HACK]

More... I spoke with my SA yesterday. They are replacing the fuel regulator. I have my doubts, but we'll see what happens...
Actually that is EXACTLY what could be wrong, considering your symptoms...

I had forgotten that the later model E46es has integrated fuel regulators inside the fuel filter. When the regulator goes, you will have problems with fuel returning from the fuel line intermittenly, causing either hard starts or rough idle when cold.

On older E46es like mine, the regulator is isolated and seperate from the fuel filter. I dunno of they're less likely to fail but it makes changing out the fuel filter a little bit easier.

[Kaz]

Actually that is EXACTLY what could be wrong, considering your symptoms...


Hmm, what did someone say in post #3 of this thread? :rolleyes:

[Claresecl]

Hmm, what did someone say in post #3 of this thread? :rolleyes:

Yes, you did say that. I should have given you my SA's phone number! Hopefully, this will do the trick. Will let you know!

[Claresecl]

Actually that is EXACTLY what could be wrong, considering your symptoms...

I had forgotten that the later model E46es has integrated fuel regulators inside the fuel filter. When the regulator goes, you will have problems with fuel returning from the fuel line intermittenly, causing either hard starts or rough idle when cold.

On older E46es like mine, the regulator is isolated and seperate from the fuel filter. I dunno of they're less likely to fail but it makes changing out the fuel filter a little bit easier.

I hope you are right, HACK! It would be great to get my car back and in working order!

[bmw325]

Actually that is EXACTLY what could be wrong, considering your symptoms...

I had forgotten that the later model E46es has integrated fuel regulators inside the fuel filter. When the regulator goes, you will have problems with fuel returning from the fuel line intermittenly, causing either hard starts or rough idle when cold.

On older E46es like mine, the regulator is isolated and seperate from the fuel filter. I dunno of they're less likely to fail but it makes changing out the fuel filter a little bit easier.

Yep, they started doing this with the intro of the M54. Very annoying as it makes changing the fuel filter much more expensive. I'm sure it saves them a few bucks in assembly costs.

[Claresecl]

Got my car back today. We'll see how she starts tomorrow! It seems to be doing well so far, and given the cold weather, I figured it would have acted up when I left work this afternoon. Keeping my fingers crossed!