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View Full Version : Bad rotors and pads after 6 months


paferri
12-24-2010, 08:26 AM
Hey all,

just a heads up type of thread. As you may, or not be aware, I performed plenty of preventive maintenance back in April of this year which included a complete cooling system overhaul, rear and fron suspension overhaul with oem lemfoeder parts and Bili HD's, and Balo front and rear rotors with textar cermaic fusion pads amongst other things.

Since about September of this year, I began noticing a progressively worse sounding squeal coming from my brakes to the point that it is now downright obnoxious for the first 10 minutes or so of driving and braking. I have also devoloped a low rumbling woo woo woo sound when cruising whether stepping on the peddle or not...sort of like an unbalanced wheel that appears to transgress throughout the car. it is a deep cyclical rubbing sound that basically changes in frequency with tire rotation. The tires still have good tread on all and are filled with 35 to 37 psi air. Lugs were tight.

My initial suspicion was bad bearings, but I replaced both front and rears back in April as well. I also supected my brake system as the squealing in the morning also developed an unbalanced squeak as the pads hit the rotors. No brake peddle vibration, no loss in MPG and no vibrating steering wheel. I was somewhat stumped and starting thinking drive shaft, flex disc or a differential issue.

I finally had some time to bring it in to my Indy that did all the work to get her on a lift and we immediately noticed that the fairly new rotors had grooves, were discolored and darker than they should have been when comparing to another e39, and had much more wear than they should have had with approximately 7k miles on them since the work was done. The textar fusion pads also appeared crystilized and had uneven wear.

Upon rotating the tires on the lift, we could hear grinding at about 240 degrees of each rotation which appeared to be uneven wear of the rotors and pads making contact. It could easily be mistaken for bad bearings, and still could be, but we agreed that the brakes and rotors were shot do to their condition and would definately need to be replaced before replacing anything else. Makes sense since the squealing and low cyclical rumbling sound appeared at about the same time.

I do not think I matched the rotors and pads well when trying this combination out, although they were offered as options on PelicanParts. It seems the Textar fusion pads are to hard for the balo rotors, especially after the colder weather arrived which seemed to have compounded both the squealing and rumbling noise. My indy also advised that Textar has an updated pad do to this very issue and that I should contact Pelican.

I just finished contacting management at Pelican parts for some type of exchange being the pads and rotors only lasted approximately 1/3 of their lifespan with normal daily driving. I am willing to pay more for a different combination as I do not want to pair the same rotors and pads, even if their is an updated Textar pad.

I am thinking Akebeno or Hawk pads with Zimmerman cross drilled rotors, or I may just go back to pagid pads which never gave me a problem but were dusty as hell. Willing to live with the dust over premature wear.

Just kills me how I have to keep going back to stuff I did on the car in less than a year. had to fix a hole in my front M5 bumper do to a rock last winter after getting it installed 6 months prior, had to get my rims refinished about 8 months after they were initially refinished do to patches of clear coat coming off ( guess these things are beyond control, but man), had to reseat my new thermostat housing after a leak developed, still have a damp tranny pan after installing a new filter and gasket when doing an ATF drain and fill ( may be do to the thicker black rubber gasket that came with the kit from autohausaz than the original thin green paper gasket) also may have stopped leaking as nothing appears on the ground after parking. but it kills me in I had none of these issues before getting the work done.....
Hopefully I will receive some type of compensation from Pelican in now having to order new rotors and pads in such a short time......may jsut go with a caliper rebuild kit while in their as well, as this was skipped last time, or should I just leave it as it seems I am better off leaving parts that do not show any symptoms alone so i don't have to come back to something that did not have problems before.
still wouldn't consider another car....not yet at least.......ah the joys of owning an E39

Merry christmas all..........

:thumbup:

cn90
12-24-2010, 08:33 AM
Just stick to Balo, ATE or Brembo rotors as you do.
Then for pads, I stick to Jurid or Pagid.

Josh P.
12-24-2010, 08:40 AM
I'm putting Zimmerman Z-Coats on next week with Hawk HPS pads (non ceramic.) I will give a report in a week or two after installation, though obv that's not enough time to judge wear and tear. You should consider standard or slotted and not cross-drilled rotors unless you're tracking the car.


Honestly it sounds like there were issues with the shop that did your work...I know you said they were good but the issues with the t-stat, tranny, etc should not be happening.

In the future whenever possible try to get as many parts from a Board sponsor as you can, as they will make it right if the problem is with the hardware. (Pelican is not a sponsor AFAIK.)

Fudman
12-24-2010, 08:43 AM
Akebonos are OK, as are Axxis, for a low dust pad. Great for low dust, so-so for braking feel and bite. It's all about the tradeoffs. Never had issues with my Zimmermans, FWIW. Note: Doru had an issue with cold weather braking performance (or the lack thereof) with his Akebonos. Don't know if others have had this issue, but in general, Akebonos are well regarded by most.

Not sure what wheels you have (I've got 42s) but I have the same problem. Have you ever noticed that water pools on the inside of the rim after stopping on a wet day due to the wheel camber? I think the peeling may be due to salt water getting under the finish where it ends under the hub. My hypothesis is that if I seal that area, it will prevent water from entering under the finish and prevent damage. I intend to put a thin bead of silicon or RTV on the inside and outside interface between the rim and the hub spokes after I refinish my wheels this winter (while the snows are on). I report back next fall on whether it works or not.

paferri
12-24-2010, 09:29 AM
josh, aren't the zimmerman's with z-coat cross drilled, or do they also offer a slotted only rotor?
T-stat hosuing appears to have been the adhesive silicone sealant or lack thereof. when doing something like this, I would put the silicone on both the housing and the block to create a better bond, not sure the mechanic initially did that, but I made sure he did the second tme around...no leak since. With all the work I had done...and it was quite the job, guess stuff can happen, and I won't hold it against them (yet) as the car drives like a champ since getting her dressed up....

The tranny again may be do to the thicker rubber gasket used and does not appear to leave anything on the pavement, just damp coming from the top rear of the pan which could be old and has since stopped....will have to keep an eye on it and dbl check when I get the brakes and rotors done.

CN....I agree, I may just go with Balo or ATE (like the prepainted hats on the ATE so I do not have to pre-paint the Balo hats with caliper paint) and pagid pads.... just stay away from ceramics altogether as it was the first time I tried a set with miserable results.

Fud....I have style 42's as well, and will consider the bead of silicone on the inner and outer gap where the 2 pieces meet, but the clear coat was coming off on the very outer lip...was not applied or baked properly in my opinion, he did re-do it under warranty for only an 80 dollar labor charge

Thanks

Josh P.
12-24-2010, 11:34 AM
Nope, flat:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_xRQ5Y59HWpk/TRT1SRfibSI/AAAAAAAACZ0/UuRzrQDMpbA/IMG00039-20101224-1434.jpg

doru
12-24-2010, 01:18 PM
Maybe you need also to service the brake calipers (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3598884&posted=1#post3598884)(although you said the mpg did not change - but maybe there were shot before you changed the brakes?).
Stick with Jurids - dusty, but they bite.

Fudman
12-24-2010, 01:39 PM
Fud....I have style 42's as well, and will consider the bead of silicone on the inner and outer gap where the 2 pieces meet, but the clear coat was coming off on the very outer lip...was not applied or baked properly in my opinion, he did re-do it under warranty for only an 80 dollar labor charge

Oh well, so much for that hypothesis!

540 M-Sport
12-24-2010, 02:02 PM
To the OP, it sure sounds like you over heated the pads and they are toast now...that is what is causing the noise and grooves in the rotors. Your rotors may be salvageable, but you may just want to start with fresh. I am unfamiliar with the Textar brand pads, I would try a more popular, and tested pad on these forums...whatever floats your boat, so no specific recommendation from me.

bluebee
12-24-2010, 03:18 PM
IIRC, I first replaced my pads and rotors with Brembo rotors (four) and Jurid/Textar (front/rear) on my 2002 525i and bled clean with ATE super blue DOT 4 fluid.
- Complete E39 brake job (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266819):

I loved the braking; and hated the dust. No noise anywhere, but I did do all the brake fluids correctly (which most people apparently do not).
- E39 4-wheel brake DIY fluids (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3135850&postcount=65):

After 30K miles, a few months ago, I replaced the Jurid front pads with PBR Deluxed Advanced (Axxis Deluxe Advanced were nowhere to be found for the front of a 2002 525i, even at any and all of our sponsors I asked):
- Where to buy brake pads (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5210632&postcount=46) (top-4 suppliers)

The only problem initially, while rebedding, I noticed that the initial immediate "bite" of the Jurids wasn't there with the PBRs - but the rest of the braking felt the same as before - and I soon got used to the initial feel.

However, over time, a slight high-pitched squeal occurs sometimes, intermittently, and only while initially braking, with the PBRs (which are said to be the same as Axxis).

Yet, I have no (or very low) visible dusting with the PBRs (the PBRs dust, of course, but the color isn't dark like the Jurids were so you don't see it as much).

So, I'm just saying I have few complaints with:
- Brembo rotors & Jurid/Textar OEM pads, or,
- brembo rotors & PBR Deluxe Advanced/Textar pads.

paferri
12-28-2010, 12:48 PM
received a response today from pelican in they will honor an RMA advising me to purchase what i want and then return the current rotors and pads after the new ones are installed for full reimbursement

Management is recommending Zimmerman flat rotors w/ z-coat paired with Akebono pads.

I am ready to order but am torn as to what to get. I did not have a good experience with my first set of ceramics being they only lasted 6 months, but was it just a bad pairing or freak occurence? was it these textar ceramic fusion pads that are untested here that are too hard for the rotors?

I really like the low dust and can get used to the less initial bite, but am not comfortable with such premature wear as i know the pads state they last longer than regular pads, but what good is that if they put more of a beating on rotors which will need to be replaced practically at every pad change if not sooner.

I know choosing the rotor is not as important as choosing the pad and am leaning towards the flat Zimmermans with pagids....or should I try the akebono's and hope for better results?

Need more help before I make a decision. For those that have been running ceramics, Is it normal for rotors to take such a beating in such a short time?

Thanks,

Mark@EAC
12-28-2010, 01:21 PM
I have dozens of customers running the zimmerman and Akebono ceramic combo who are pleased with them. That said most people are pleased with the OEM brakes which you seem to have had problems with. I understand you are going with Pelican again due to the RMA procedure. The next time you need brakes give EAC a call- we stock more brands than pelican and offer kits at better pricing.

paferri
12-28-2010, 03:37 PM
wish i did the first time around Mark, and will definately consider you guys for all my needs in the future....including brakes and rotors....you guys have always been top notch when ordering from you.:thumbup:

Josh P.
12-28-2010, 04:15 PM
Make sure you do this after you install whatever brakes you choose:

------------PASTE--------------------

Bedding allows your brakes to reach their full potential. Until they are bedded, your brakes simply do not work as well as they can. If you've installed a big brake kit, changed your pads and rotors, or even purchased a brand new car, you should set aside time to bed the brakes according to the instructions below. Proper bedding improves pedal feel, reduces or eliminates brake squeal, prevents (and often cures) brake judder, reduces brake dust, and extends the life of your pads and rotors. For more on the theory of bedding, please refer to this excellent article by StopTech: Removing the Mystery from Brake Pad Bed-In.

Caution: Immediately after installing new pads, rotors or a big brake kit, the first few applications of the brakes will result in very little braking power. Gently use the brakes a few times at low speed in order to build up some grip before blasting down the road at high speed. Otherwise, you may be in for a nasty surprise the first time you hit the brakes at 60 mph.

If you have just installed rotors with zinc or cadmium plating, or if the rotors have an anti-corrosion phosphate coating, you should postpone the bedding process until normal driving has allowed your brake pads to polish the rotors clean and removed all traces of the plating or coating. If your new brake rotors have an oily anti-corrosion coating, you should clean this off thoroughly with brake cleaning spray and/or hot soapy water.

Read and understand these bedding instructions completely before starting. If you have questions, give us a call or email. Do not substitute higher speeds for the 60mph called for in these instructions. The heat in your brakes goes up exponentially as you increase the speed from which you brake. If you make repeated stops from 80 or 90mph with street pads, you will overheat the brakes and may end up having to replace pads and/or rotors.

When following these instructions, avoid other vehicles. Bedding is often best done early in the morning, when traffic is light, since other drivers will have no idea what you are up to and may respond in a variety of ways ranging from fear to curiosity to aggression. A police officer will probably not understand when you try to explain why you were driving erratically! Zeckhausen Racing does not endorse speeding on public roads and takes no responsibility for any injuries or tickets you may receive while following these instructions. Use common sense!

1.

From 60mph, gently apply the brakes a couple of times to bring them up to operating temperature. This prevents you from thermally shocking the rotors and pads in the next steps.
2.

Make eight to ten near-stops from 60mph to about 10-15 mph. Do it HARD by pressing the brakes firmly, but do not lock the wheels or engage ABS. At the end of each slowdown, immediately accelerate back to 60mph and then apply the brakes again. DO NOT COME TO A COMPLETE STOP! If you stop completely and sit with your foot on the brake pedal, you will imprint pad material onto the hot rotors, which could lead to vibration and uneven braking.
3.

The brakes may begin to fade after the 7th or 8th near-stop. This fade will stabilize, but not completely go away until the brakes have fully cooled. A strong smell from the brakes, and even some smoke, is normal.
4.

After the last near-stop, accelerate back up to speed and cruise for a while, using the brakes as little as possible. The brakes need only a few minutes to cool down. Try not to become trapped in traffic or come to a complete stop while the brakes are still very hot.
5.

If full race pads, such as Hawk DTC-70 or Performance Friction PFC01 are being used, add four near-stops from 80 to 10 mph.

After the break-in cycle, there should be a slight blue tint and a light gray film on the rotor face. The blue tint tells you the rotor has reached break-in temperature and the gray film is pad material starting to transfer onto the rotor face. This is what you are looking for. The best braking occurs when there is an even layer of of pad material deposited across the rotors. This minimizes squealing, increases braking torque, and maximizes pad and rotor life.

After the first break in cycle shown above, the brakes may still not be fully broken in. A second bed-in cycle, AFTER the brakes have cooled down fully from the first cycle, may be necessary before the brakes really start to perform well. This is especially true if you have installed new pads on old rotors, since the pads need time to conform to the old rotor wear pattern. If you've just installed a big brake kit, the pedal travel may not feel as firm as you expected. After the second cycle, the pedal will become noticeably firmer. If necessary, bleed the brakes to improve pedal firmness.

Zeckhausen (http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm).

----------------END-------------------

I actually held off on doing my brakes this week because the roads are so icy bad I was afraid I'd wreck if I did the break in procedure. Maybe next week!

paferri
12-28-2010, 05:10 PM
thx Josh....was lokking for that reading as I did come across it a while ago.

Is it neccessary to bed in ceramics though? Everyone I ask says there is no need to bed ceramic pads, or is this a procedure that should be performed regardles of the pad material?

540 M-Sport
12-28-2010, 05:57 PM
Akebono are very popular here, I don't think you will have any issues with them. You are the FIRST person I have heard of to try Textar ceramics...it could be that pad is not fully developed.... use tried and true, the Akebono has many recommendations from others here. A buddy of mine put them on his 760il and loves them.

Jason5driver
12-28-2010, 06:24 PM
thx Josh....was lokking for that reading as I did come across it a while ago.

Is it necessary to bed in ceramics though? Everyone I ask says there is no need to bed ceramic pads, or is this a procedure that should be performed regardless of the pad material?

Yes.
Bed in all pads.

I would stick with what you have, RE-BED the pads.
If that doesn't work, then try replacing the pads.
I seriously doubt there is anything wrong with the rotors.

Jason5driver
12-29-2010, 10:35 AM
Bump...
What happened?

paferri
12-30-2010, 08:00 AM
getting an RMA replacement for the original Balo rotors and textar ceramic fusion pads. Just ordered Zimmerman flats w/z-coat and Akebono pads and have arranged to install them in about 2 weeks.

I will then send back my old rotors and pads for credit which seems to come out to the same amount as what I just ordered...$335.00

I am hoping this gets rid of the unbalanced woo woo sound I am getting when driving as well which seems to have appeared the same time my brakes started making a horendeous squeal.

I really can't see it being the bearings as they were all replaced (front and rear) with F.A.G.'s 6 months ago as well, but anything can happen, even if new.

I will update once the new rotors and pads are on

MatWiz
12-30-2010, 09:27 AM
getting an RMA replacement for the original Balo rotors and textar ceramic fusion pads. Just ordered Zimmerman flats w/z-coat and Akebono pads and have arranged to install them in about 2 weeks.
...
I will update once the new rotors and pads are on

Akebono will do great in the Long Island NY cold winter weather. Good choice. :thumbup:

They are also very quiet so your "woo woo" annoyance will finally resolve itself and you will finally get the quiet brakes that you desire.

Congratulations on your new choice purchase. :thumbup:

mw

Jason5driver
12-30-2010, 10:03 AM
getting an RMA replacement for the original Balo rotors and textar ceramic fusion pads. Just ordered Zimmerman flats w/z-coat and Akebono pads and have arranged to install them in about 2 weeks.

I will then send back my old rotors and pads for credit which seems to come out to the same amount as what I just ordered...$335.00

I am hoping this gets rid of the unbalanced woo woo sound I am getting when driving as well which seems to have appeared the same time my brakes started making a horendeous squeal.

I really can't see it being the bearings as they were all replaced (front and rear) with F.A.G.'s 6 months ago as well, but anything can happen, even if new.

I will update once the new rotors and pads are on

I don't understand why you didn't just sand down the pads a bit from the glazing, and re-bed everything?
It would have been a ton of less work and make more sense.

ill_kuma
12-30-2010, 10:45 AM
I am running Akebono Euro with flat Brembos...no complaints so far.

paferri
12-30-2010, 11:09 AM
Jason, the pads and rotors have uneven wear...they are that bad. Besides, the rotors already have some pretty nice grooves etched in them...completely unacceptable after 6 months...getting the replacements at the same price as my original order...all paid for by Pelican under RMA.

golferjohnm
12-30-2010, 07:35 PM
Jason, the pads and rotors have uneven wear...they are that bad. Besides, the rotors already have some pretty nice grooves etched in them...completely unacceptable after 6 months...getting the replacements at the same price as my original order...all paid for by Pelican under RMA.

good to hear they stand behind what they sell :thumbup:

energizedmortal
01-05-2011, 08:59 AM
paferri- its the things we do for the love of the car... i have a love hate relationship with my e39 but its worth it (one of the best cars ever made) your car looks super keep up the good work enjoy the ride ....i will report that mintex brakes did squeak for me for about three weeks and then they seemed to have bedded in and are quiet now but do produce dust...i went with oem zimmerman coated rotors from autohausaz

Mack
01-05-2011, 09:33 AM
Looks like Jason didn't read your full post about the grooves worn into your rotors. Glad you stayed with ceramic pads. I personally think anyone NOT running ceramics is just crazy. Stock pads put so much dust and crap out there it's just insane and the stopping power for ceramics is more than adequate. Keep us posted on how well your new setup performs. I currently have posi-quiets but will probably go with Hawks for my next set.

Jason5driver
01-05-2011, 10:23 AM
Jason, the pads and rotors have uneven wear...they are that bad. Besides, the rotors already have some pretty nice grooves etched in them...completely unacceptable after 6 months...getting the replacements at the same price as my original order...all paid for by Pelican under RMA.

Why would the rotors and pads have uneven wear?
Were they used?
Were they installed correctly?
How did you get groves into the rotors?
The only way I can think of how that could happen is if something was stuck between the pad and the rotor, and/or the pad was angled and the pad corner gouged the rotor incorrectly...
Or, the Textar Ceramic pads have an extremely hard compound, similar to Hawk Blue track pads...

Jason5driver
01-05-2011, 10:26 AM
Looks like Jason didn't read your full post about the grooves worn into your rotors. Glad you stayed with ceramic pads. I personally think anyone NOT running ceramics is just crazy. Stock pads put so much dust and crap out there it's just insane and the stopping power for ceramics is more than adequate. Keep us posted on how well your new setup performs. I currently have posi-quiets but will probably go with Hawks for my next set.

I have Stop Tech front brake pads on my car now.
Great feel, equal or better than OEM stopping power, and very minimal dust.
And, the Stop Tech pads are not ceramics.

Burning2nd
01-05-2011, 10:36 AM
Brembo cross drilled... ackibono pads and sport pins... solid FTW

paferri
01-06-2011, 05:44 AM
Jason....good question, the rotors and pads were brand new and installed in may/2010. not sure what happened, but I know something is not right. I am going to guess its was the pads that caused the issues as they seemed to work fine up until about September where I started getting the horendeous squeal for the first 10 minutes of driving or so as well as an unbalanced sound that increases in frequency the faster the car goes. I am not going to rule out a bad installation either from my Indy, gonna give them a chance to make it right before I accuse them. I am just hoping the unbalanced sound is not my new bearings and an unbalanced rotor throwing the bearings out of whack. I will see next week when i get the work done. He will also be installing a new thermostat housing as a leak seems to have sprung from it and we already re-seated it once with rtv.....still leaking. I am also getting a new tranny gasket and filter as the tranny has a minor leak that has not stopped since doing a drain and fill in June/2010....so another drain and fill is in store which I planned on doing again anyway. I could easily blame the mechanics for all the issues I am having, but in experience, these things can and do happen with new parts as it could also be coincedence with all the preventive maintenance I had done at one time. The thermo housing, although OEM, could be a bad mold, have a slight crack, or be uneven where it meets the block, the tranny leak could be a faulty or uneven gasket etc.

With all that said, I am giving them one more chance or I find myself a new Indy as I just want this all fixed being i did not have any of these problems before doing all the work....and he is aware of that.

540nj
01-06-2011, 06:52 AM
I have Stop Tech front brake pads on my car now.
Great feel, equal or better than OEM stopping power, and very minimal dust.
And, the Stop Tech pads are not ceramics.

+1 on the Stoptechs (Street Performance). I just installed this weekend, very good feel out of the box, just as good as OEM. Too early to tell on the dust. My OEM Jurids lasted ~40K miles, still had plenty of pad left, but severe shudder under braking led me to install new pads and rotors. One of the Jurid pads had a chunk out of the leading edge, not sure if that or run-out on the rotors caused the problem. Replacing with Stoptech and new Centric rotors solved the issue.

dave
03 540i6

Jason5driver
01-06-2011, 10:10 AM
Jason....good question, the rotors and pads were brand new and installed in may/2010. not sure what happened, but I know something is not right. I am going to guess its was the pads that caused the issues as they seemed to work fine up until about September where I started getting the horendeous squeal for the first 10 minutes of driving or so as well as an unbalanced sound that increases in frequency the faster the car goes. I am not going to rule out a bad installation either from my Indy, gonna give them a chance to make it right before I accuse them. I am just hoping the unbalanced sound is not my new bearings and an unbalanced rotor throwing the bearings out of whack. I will see next week when i get the work done. He will also be installing a new thermostat housing as a leak seems to have sprung from it and we already re-seated it once with rtv.....still leaking. I am also getting a new tranny gasket and filter as the tranny has a minor leak that has not stopped since doing a drain and fill in June/2010....so another drain and fill is in store which I planned on doing again anyway. I could easily blame the mechanics for all the issues I am having, but in experience, these things can and do happen with new parts as it could also be coincedence with all the preventive maintenance I had done at one time. The thermo housing, although OEM, could be a bad mold, have a slight crack, or be uneven where it meets the block, the tranny leak could be a faulty or uneven gasket etc.

With all that said, I am giving them one more chance or I find myself a new Indy as I just want this all fixed being i did not have any of these problems before doing all the work....and he is aware of that.

I am leaning towards bad installation.
Why not install the brakes yourself?
IMO, there was nothing wrong with the Balo rotors or Textar Ceramic Fusion pads.
That is pretty good customer service from Pelican if they replaced everything for you IMO.

Mack
01-06-2011, 10:19 AM
LOL Jason you've never heard of faulty parts? It happens. Quite often actually. Hence warranties, return guarantee's etc. It's pretty hard to jack up a brake install. Don't get me wrong it CAN be done. But you'd have to be a real bonehead to be working at a repair shop and jack up a brake install which is about 1 step in difficulty above an oil change. Just my $.02.

Jason5driver
01-06-2011, 10:25 AM
LOL Jason you've never heard of faulty parts? It happens. Quite often actually. Hence warranties, return guarantee's etc. It's pretty hard to jack up a brake install. Don't get me wrong it CAN be done. But you'd have to be a real bonehead to be working at a repair shop and jack up a brake install which is about 1 step in difficulty above an oil change. Just my $.02.

How would a faulty rotor or brake pad cause grooves in the rotors?
Human error, not product error.

Mack
01-06-2011, 10:54 AM
Haha are you serious man?

Jason5driver
01-06-2011, 04:14 PM
Haha are you serious man?

Yes.
Do you really think the rotors would come with grooves in them?

Mack
01-06-2011, 04:41 PM
Doubtful but I certainly believe the pads could have been defective.

Josh P.
01-06-2011, 05:15 PM
Just installed my Zimmerman Z Coats w/ Hawk HPS pads and bedded them in. Also did full brake system flush, first time in two years. First, my 70mph steering shudder seems to have disappeared! I'll know for sure Sat or Sun when I get on the highway.

Obv it's too early to tell about dust with this combination of pads and rotors but there is very good brake pedal feel: pedal travel seems the same if not slightly less input required than OEM setup. The car stops on a dime, I did a number of stops from 60 to about 10 with hard braking and there was no shudder and no ABS activation either. Supposed to snow here tonight :mad: so I prob won't be driving much in the next day, but after it warms up I will be able to wash the wheels and then I'll report back on the brake dust issue.

paferri
01-06-2011, 06:23 PM
Jason, In my experience with cars and even computers (since it is my line of work) there are faulty parts all the time. Brand new hard drives, Power supplies , memory, etc, that are bad out of the box, or go bad in a few weeks, even from reputable companies and manufacturers since almost everything is now outsourced to 3rd world countries. The grooves in the rotors, and its all of them, are definately from the pads. The pads seem to have hardened and crystilized where it contacts the rotor. There is a recall from textar for these very pads due to the severe squealing issue. From what I have read, these pads are extremely hard on rotors and the Balo's may have been a bad match for them. I have seen grooves in rotors many times with ceramic or metallic pads, on many different cars.... usually caused by the metal or ceramic fragments or a crystilized portion of the pad that does not wear as quickly or evenly as it should leaving imperfections in the rotor.

Considering all the work I had done at one time...and it is an impressive amount for a car that showed no signs of issues besides a severe vibration of the steering wheel when braking which dissapeared with new rotors, pads, thrust arms, all as preventive maintenence because i want to keep the car..... Complete cooling system overhaul, completely new hoses for the entire air intake system, complete front and rear suspension overhaul with bearings, rotors and pads, brake fluid flush, New PS reservoir and hoses including hoses to steering rack, new VCG, plugs, boots, Besian vanos seals, ICV, CCV, throttle body gasket, secondary air pump (was whining), tranny and differential drain and fill.
...4 days of work and the car for the most part still drives like a champ besides these 3 issues.

Like I said, I am giving them the benefit of doubt in making it right. I want to thoroughly check everything while she is on the lift. I want to make sure a sticky caliper or two...or even faulty bearings are not the culprit, including the mounting of the bearings which could have thrown the rotors out.....we shall see and I will be back with what I find.

I would love to do this myself, but being I live in a co-op, I do not have the space to do this unless i do it right in the street.

Josh, I just received the Zimmerman's and Akebono's today...did you paint the hats with caliper paint? or do you have faith in the z-coat finish in preventing rust? I am thinking of painting the hats black like I did with the Balo's which were unfinished.

Josh P.
01-07-2011, 04:34 AM
Josh, I just received the Zimmerman's and Akebono's today...did you paint the hats with caliper paint? or do you have faith in the z-coat finish in preventing rust? I am thinking of painting the hats black like I did with the Balo's which were unfinished.

I did not paint them. I wasn't sure how the paint would react with the coating, and I guess I figured I would see if this stuff actually works...(I'm assuming the hats as well as the rotors were coated. The looked like the same color, see pic.) I never had an issue with rust on my OEM hats so I'm curious to see if the Zimmermans hold up.

Mack
01-07-2011, 07:07 AM
If they are zinc coated you should be good to go. My last set were actually powder coated and while they still look good I'm pretty sure they are warped so I'll be looking at getting a new set here soon. Zimmermans are at the top of the list. Keep us posted on performance though I don't expect to hear any issues.

cn90
01-07-2011, 07:18 AM
...The grooves in the rotors, and its all of them, are definately from the pads....

This is correct, it is braking system 101.

Brand-new rotor: the surface appears smooth, but if you look under the microscope, it has surface imperfection, but not to worry about.

Brand-new brake pad: the surface may be smooth to your hand but if you look under a microscope, it is a bit rough, pretty much like a concrete surface.

As you bed in the new brake, over the next 5-10K miles, the pads slowly mate into the rotors, creating grooves pretty much like an LP vinyl music record (from the good ol days LOL).
The fit now becomes almost like a lock-and-key, i.e., this half-worn pad fits this rotor nicely.

This is why when you replace the pads, you have 3 options:
1- resurface the rotors (if the thickness is still good) so they are smooth again
2- use new rotors.
3- leave the old rotors with existing grooves alone but you may run into smoothness issues, potentially have braking vibration issues.

BeemVerg
05-28-2011, 01:27 AM
I just received the Zimmerman's and Akebono's today...did you paint the hats with caliper paint? or do you have faith in the z-coat finish in preventing rust? I am thinking of painting the hats black like I did with the Balo's which were unfinished.

paferri, how are your brakes and rotors so far ? I've been looking and considering the same combination as your choices. Pelican's got a good price on the Zimmerman Coat Z, $70.25. FCP Groton has Akebono pads for $90. Good RMA policies too. Very convenient.

btw, are the Zimmermans Made in Mexico ? i think Brembos are too these days.

brickwhite
05-24-2012, 06:29 AM
I just removed a set of Textar Ceramic from the rear of my e39 with Balo disks, only got 15k and about a year and a half out of them. At first I thought I put on AKEBONO but when I was taking them off whoops they were Textar's. And stupid me ordered Textar's again. But I needed something.

They wore twice as fast as my fronts kind wierd, In the future no Textar's!!!

Jason5driver
05-24-2012, 08:12 AM
I just removed a set of Textar Ceramic from the rear of my e39 with Balo disks, only got 15k and about a year and a half out of them. At first I thought I put on AKEBONO but when I was taking them off whoops they were Textar's. And stupid me ordered Textar's again. But I needed something.

They wore twice as fast as my fronts kind wierd, In the future no Textar's!!!

:confused:

What pads do you have on the front?

Did the Textar Fusions perform well?

540 M-Sport
05-24-2012, 07:14 PM
paferri, how are your brakes and rotors so far ? I've been looking and considering the same combination as your choices. Pelican's got a good price on the Zimmerman Coat Z, $70.25. FCP Groton has Akebono pads for $90. Good RMA policies too. Very convenient.

btw, are the Zimmermans Made in Mexico ? i think Brembos are too these days.

I have Zimmerman Z coat and Akebono Euro Ceramic. They work fine, and almost zero dust...pretty amazing really. The rotors are made in Germany according to the packaging. SOME Brembo rotors are made in Mexico, but not all. I have some still on the rear of my car, they are fine, no issues. I can understand that making them in North America lowers shipping costs, plus labor is cheaper in Mexico as well. For now, their QC seems up to par.

Be warned, that Akebono will have a slightly softer pedal feel, and bit less initial "bite" than the oem or some other high performance pads. This was an acceptable trade off for my daily driver. Some do not like that and prefer the Hawk HPS, Porterfield R4S, or Metal Master. All good choices, but they will dust a bit more than Akebonos...but less than oem...them are the trade offs.