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Lambow
01-04-2011, 01:40 PM
I plan to buy Moda EB1 wheels from Tire Rack to use with snow tires in the winter, but need to decide which tire to purchase........245/45/18 on all four corners. Any suggestions?


I have used Dunlop D2's in the past and prefer Dunlop SP Winter Sport D3 ROF, but Tire Rack is out of stock. Choices are:


Run Flats:

* Bridgestone Blizzack LM -25 RFT (96V)

* Pierelli Winter 240 Sottozero RFT (100V)


Non-Run Flats:

* Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3 (100V)


Alternatively, is it worth while to pay more to a local dealer for the Dunlop SP Winter Sport D3 ROF? Or does anyone know of other online tire retailers that might have the D3's in stock?

Thank you.

DXK
01-04-2011, 01:51 PM
Dunlops are sold out eveywhere I looked locally, not sure about NY. You need runflats, you have no spare, or carry one in your trunk.
From there, the opinions differ: Pirelli is better on the dry (I have chosen this one) It's made in Germany and I drove on the autobahns at high speeds in winter.
The other is better in snow. Depends on where you do most of your driving: in snow or with little or no snow

Lambow
01-04-2011, 02:08 PM
Need snow performance 10 to 15 days per season, otherwise relatively dry. Tire rack said the same thing you did about the difference btwn Bridgestone and Pierelli. I have used both pierelli and dunlop snow tires in the past, dunlop more recently and were happy with both. The Dunlops must be the preferred tire if all dealers seem to be out of stock.

richschneid
01-04-2011, 02:12 PM
I plan to buy Moda EB1 wheels from Tire Rack to use with snow tires in the winter, but need to decide which tire to purchase........245/45/18 on all four corners. Any suggestions?


I have used Dunlop D2's in the past and prefer Dunlop SP Winter Sport D3 ROF, but Tire Rack is out of stock. Choices are:


Run Flats:

* Bridgestone Blizzack LM -25 RFT (96V)

* Pierelli Winter 240 Sottozero RFT (100V)


Non-Run Flats:

* Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3 (100V)


Alternatively, is it worth while to pay more to a local dealer for the Dunlop SP Winter Sport D3 ROF? Or does anyone know of other online tire retailers that might have the D3's in stock?

Thank you.

A review on the tirerack indicated that the Pirelli's are very noisy. I had the non RFT Wintersport M3s on my 650i for five years. They were pretty good in the snow and better in the dry. I got the LM-25s for my 550i xDrive this year and they are very good. But the F10 has a better suspension than the 650i and I tend to drive the DHP in comfort mode in the winter because of the rougher pavement or more comfort on long trips on the interstate. In comfort mode the ride is more than compensated for when using the RFTs as opposed to the non RFTS and the extra road noise is not very noticeable in the quiet of the F10.

But the main thing I was interested in was traction and stopping in snow and ice after the winter we had last year in Pittsburgh. The Blizzaks are probably the best in this regard and they handle extremely well in the dry with an xDrive car. I would not go back to the Dunlops.

Lambow
01-04-2011, 02:20 PM
I used non rft Winter Sport Dunlop M2 for 6 years without any problems. How would you compare LM-25's with non Dunlop rft D3's......rft issues aside?

DXK
01-04-2011, 02:33 PM
I also used both Dunlops and Pirellis, I have heard no noise even at speeds of 120mph.
As far as scarcity of dunlops, it might have something to do with the ability to manufacture large quantities. Pirelli is bigger. I am not saying it's better or not.

Lambow
01-04-2011, 03:10 PM
No luck finding 3d's. I assume it's best to go with rft this time so will choose between LM-25 and 240 Sottozero.

highyo
01-04-2011, 07:46 PM
Dunlops are sold out eveywhere I looked locally, not sure about NY. You need runflats, you have no spare, or carry one in your trunk.
From there, the opinions differ: Pirelli is better on the dry (I have chosen this one) It's made in Germany and I drove on the autobahns at high speeds in winter.
The other is better in snow. Depends on where you do most of your driving: in snow or with little or no snow

I have a set of dunlops with maybe 2500 miles on them, have receipts. Needed them because my e60 had summers. They come with the borbet rims and tire rack covers. Any interest please pm me. They are priced to move!

18 inches all around

highyo
01-04-2011, 07:48 PM
I have a set of dunlops with maybe 2500 miles on them, have receipts. Needed them because my e60 had summers. They come with the borbet rims and tire rack covers. Any interest please pm me. They are priced to move!

18 inches all around


Order Description
Order
Total

Order
Placed
Order Number
2 Qty. SEASONAL TIRE TOTE
$48.04

12/02/2009
B045702
4 Qty. 433MHZ TIRE PRESSURE SENSOR
$203.88

11/26/2009
B012317
4 Qty. 17X7.5 BORBET TYPE TS BRIGHT SIL
$1824.22

11/26/2009
B011956
4 Qty. 225/50R-17 DUNLOP SP WINTER SPORT M3 ROF RUNFLAT

highyo
01-04-2011, 07:50 PM
Got cut off. The 4 tires came to $862

DXK
01-04-2011, 07:59 PM
They might not fit his car

Lambow
01-04-2011, 08:28 PM
Not sure about fit, but looking for 18". Did Dunlop replace the Winter Sport M3 rf with 3D rf, or are they both current models?

quackbury
01-04-2011, 09:09 PM
Since you are going aftermarket instead of OE, you may want to think about buying a 5th wheel. One of the problems with aftermarket wheels is that they are made in relatively small quantities, for a limited period of time. If you break one 2 or 3 years from now, you may be searching Craigslist for a replacement, and hoping that it is straight and true.

I would seriously consider buying 5 of the non-RFT Dunlops, mounted on 5 Moda's. I have had great luck with the various permutation of the Dunlops on 3 different vehicles (E39 540, E60 550 and E70 X5). They will ride better than the RFT alternatives, probably have less unsprung weight, and I bet 5 mounted non-RFT's will cost you about the same as 4 mounted RFT's. (Does that make sense?) And you'll always have a spare sitting in your garage.

richschneid
01-05-2011, 04:58 AM
I used non rft Winter Sport Dunlop M2 for 6 years without any problems. How would you compare LM-25's with non Dunlop rft D3's......rft issues aside?

I think the LM-25s are a little noisier and harder, but my Dunlops M3s were non run flat, so it is not a fair comparison. The LM-25s handle just as well in the dry. I think the Blizzaks are better in the snow and ice, without giving up much in the dry. I certainly had to drive my 650i much more conservatively in the winter with the Wintersports than with the Potenzas in the summer. It was night and day.

But the xDrive handles so much better in the dry than the RWD that it's hard to make a fair comparison. I used to have the standard Blizzak's on my 540i, and they were like driving on Jello, but the LM-25s are much better in the dry. But nothing is a good as the standard non performance Blizzaks in snow and ice. My wife has those on her Accord and it goes through snow drifts like a snow mobile and stops in snow going downhill with no sliding. My xDrive with the LM-25s is almost as good in the snow and ice.

tdepetra
01-05-2011, 05:17 AM
I've mentioned the Michelin X-Ice non-RFT snows in a couple of earlier posts. 245/50 x 18. I believe they're much better than all the Blizzaks I've used in the past, but that's my only reference point. They corner sharp, are quiet have amazing snow/ice traction and are inexpensive. Downside is carrying spare in trunk, which for me is not a dealbreaker.

richschneid
01-05-2011, 06:09 AM
I've mentioned the Michelin X-Ice non-RFT snows in a couple of earlier posts. 245/50 x 18. I believe they're much better than all the Blizzaks I've used in the past, but that's my only reference point. They corner sharp, are quiet have amazing snow/ice traction and are inexpensive. Downside is carrying spare in trunk, which for me is not a dealbreaker.

I would never again drive on non run flat tires, especially in the winter.

Patrick
01-05-2011, 06:25 AM
I would never again drive on non run flat tires, especially in the winter.

:dunno:

beamerGE
01-05-2011, 06:29 AM
I purchased the set you're looking at. I got the EB1s with the anthracite trim as it looks really good with the space grey. Instead of rofs I opted for the Dunlop Winter Sports M3s. I just drove the car to Switzerland and back and to be honest was very surprised with the lack of road noise while driving at about 80-85 mph most of the way. We've had some snow here and the tires along with the DTC have performed well for me. No complaints here. I'd send a pic but it's just too dirty and I'm saddened by it!!::cry: After reading the previous posts I'm considering buying one more rim/tire just to have for a spare.

tdepetra
01-05-2011, 07:28 AM
I would never again drive on non run flat tires, especially in the winter.

I am interested in why not. I'll give you my reason for preferring the non-RFTs: the X-ice in particular gives a very good blend of comfort/handling/traction with very little compromise on any of those characteristics. It is quiet and relatively inexpensive. I believe it will be far less prone to causing rim damage and suffering bubbling than RFT. For me, these reasons offset the negatives of losing much of my trunk and dragging extra weight every day.

Lambow
01-05-2011, 08:55 AM
I haven't had any issues in the past with not having rfts for my e39 (dunlop ws m2's), and I really liked the dunlops in terms of handling (both dry and snow conditions) and the tread life. I am leaning towards rfts this time for three reasons: (1) to avoid buying a spare setup, (2) resale (if I ever sell the wheels I think a bigger population of people who own f10 5 series would prefer winter rfts) and (3) don't want to curse myself if I get a flat with non-rfts.

I can find dunlop ws m3 rft locally, but the price is ridiculous ($1,400+ for 4). I'm down to LM-25 and 240 Sottozeros from Tire Rack and have been getting conflicting recommendations.........as you can image.

DXK
01-05-2011, 09:09 AM
I would never again drive on non run flat tires, especially in the winter.
I second that. I was driving once from Boston to Long Island, got a flat on highway that goes through Bronx. Mercedes was not allowed to tow me, because this road was restricted to their own tow trucks. There was no spare, and tire could be fixed. I had to pay the tow truck driver to drive me by all repair shops in Bronx so I could find the new tire. They didn't have one. Finally I paid a tire shop to go out and get me one at any cost. I think they stole it, for it was used.

dunderhi
01-05-2011, 02:03 PM
I have non-RFT's on both sets of wheels for my 3 Series, and plan to do the same for my 5 Series. My insurance against getting stranded, other than road side assistance, is the BMW Mobility Kit, which is what BMW supplies with their M-Series cars. TireRack also sell a Contenental mobility for a bit less.

DXK
01-05-2011, 02:09 PM
Except it doesn't aways help like it was in my case, it depends how the tire is damaged

richschneid
01-05-2011, 02:15 PM
I am interested in why not. I'll give you my reason for preferring the non-RFTs: the X-ice in particular gives a very good blend of comfort/handling/traction with very little compromise on any of those characteristics. It is quiet and relatively inexpensive. I believe it will be far less prone to causing rim damage and suffering bubbling than RFT. For me, these reasons offset the negatives of losing much of my trunk and dragging extra weight every day.

I just don't want to have to change the tire on the side of the road. The F10 suspension is designed from the ground up to be driven with RFTs. But I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy I guess. I have RFTs in both summer and winter. I have the M Mobility kit in the storage compartment under the trunk. I carry an OE all season tire and wheel in the trunk as a spare. I have BMW assist and AAA.

Of course, I didn't have RFTs on my 740i, my 540i, or my E39 M5. But I did have the OE summer RFTs on my '06 650i and really enjoyed the peace of mind. So, now I just don't feel comfortable without them. The handling of the OE RFT Potenza's on my 650i was fantastic. The handling and ride of the Blizzak LM-25 RFTs in combination with the xDrive and DHP is excellent. I have no problem whatsoever, so why sacrifice the security of the RFTs?

When you spend 80 grand on a car, a few hundred more or less for tires doesn't make a lot of difference. If you only use the snows in the winter they last for several years, so the difference in cost per year is minimal.

richschneid
01-05-2011, 02:18 PM
I second that. I was driving once from Boston to Long Island, got a flat on highway that goes through Bronx. Mercedes was not allowed to tow me, because this road was restricted to their own tow trucks. There was no spare, and tire could be fixed. I had to pay the tow truck driver to drive me by all repair shops in Bronx so I could find the new tire. They didn't have one. Finally I paid a tire shop to go out and get me one at any cost. I think they stole it, for it was used.

If you were on the Cross Bronx, I always avoid it like the plague.

quackbury
01-05-2011, 02:29 PM
I have non-RFT's on both sets of wheels for my 3 Series, and plan to do the same for my 5 Series. My insurance against getting stranded, other than road side assistance, is the BMW Mobility Kit, which is what BMW supplies with their M-Series cars. TireRack also sell a Contenental mobility for a bit less.

On the M cars, BMW also hedges its bets by giving us free flat-bed towing for life. Much as I hate RFT's, there are instances where the mobility kit won't do you any good. But I'd still rather have an honest-to-God spare in the car (donut or full size). Even if I don't want to change it myself, AAA or BMW Assist can do the job.

Last time I was on the CBE I hit a pothole big enough to not only blow the tire on my AMG Mercedes, but bend the alloy as well. I was thrilled to have a full size spare - the mobility kit would have been worthless since the wheel wouldn't hold air.

DXK
01-05-2011, 02:29 PM
If you were on the Cross Bronx, I always avoid it like the plague.

wasn't as bad as you see on TV:)

dunderhi
01-05-2011, 03:54 PM
Except it doesn't aways help like it was in my case, it depends how the tire is damaged

The same holds true for a RFT. If the sidewall blows out, it isn't going anywhere.

highyo
01-05-2011, 04:23 PM
wasn't as bad as you see on TV:)

do tell... it is that bad bro bro

dunderhi
01-05-2011, 04:49 PM
I just don't want to have to change the tire on the side of the road. The F10 suspension is designed from the ground up to be driven with RFTs. But I'm a belt and suspenders kind of guy I guess. I have RFTs in both summer and winter. I have the M Mobility kit in the storage compartment under the trunk. I carry an OE all season tire and wheel in the trunk as a spare. I have BMW assist and AAA.


Wow, now that's what I call being prepared! Everyone has their own personal experiences and preferences. Me, I'm more of a Sport+ mode type of driver. The heavy tires and heavy wheels will be the first to be replaced on my 5. I'll probably have the new shoes waiting in my garage before my car arrives. Why am I not as concerned about the additional layer of safety the RFTs are puported to provide? I've had only one flat in 25 years or roughly a half-million miles, but if I get a flat - so what, I'll deal with it. If it is in an area where I am afraid for my safety (such a place I've yet to find), I can always drive on the rim. And yes, I've driven the CBE! It one of my favorite post-apopcalytic roadways. It's best at night, since you don't see the burn-out wreck on the side of the road until you pass it. :thumbup:

DXK
01-05-2011, 04:51 PM
do tell... it is that bad bro bro

I didn't quite feel like Sherman McCoy, no. You just pretend like you belong there and be friendly.

highyo
01-05-2011, 08:09 PM
I didn't quite feel like Sherman McCoy, no. You just pretend like you belong there and be friendly.

No. You are sherman mccoy. Get ur narrow a$$ out of there with your 2011 space ship. Seriously. U dont belong there. Bounce.

richschneid
01-06-2011, 04:41 AM
Wow, now that's what I call being prepared! Everyone has their own personal experiences and preferences. Me, I'm more of a Sport+ mode type of driver. The heavy tires and heavy wheels will be the first to be replaced on my 5. I'll probably have the new shoes waiting in my garage before my car arrives. Why am I not as concerned about the additional layer of safety the RFTs are puported to provide? I've had only one flat in 25 years or roughly a half-million miles, but if I get a flat - so what, I'll deal with it. If it is in an area where I am afraid for my safety (such a place I've yet to find), I can always drive on the rim. And yes, I've driven the CBE! It one of my favorite post-apopcalytic roadways. It's best at night, since you don't see the burn-out wreck on the side of the road until you pass it. :thumbup:

The CBE is one thing. What about in a blizzard in the mountains in central Pennsylvania? Now to compensate for the additional weight of the RFTs I just use the 400 hp and 450 lb ft of torque of my engine along with the incredible traction of xDrive. So, even though my E39 M5 did not have the performance disadvantages of RFTs, it still did not have the maximum performance abilities of my 550i xDrive with RFTs.

For summer tires, the RFT Bridgestone Potenza max performance tires should give a lateral g force on the skidpad of around 0.92 in my car as well as excellent lane change velocity. They were great on my 650i.

Now add the Dinan to the tt V8 and you even compensate more for the added weight of the RFTs. :)

Different strokes for different folks.

pharding
01-06-2011, 05:24 AM
The same holds true for a RFT. If the sidewall blows out, it isn't going anywhere.
I have bent alloy wheels on occasion with RFT's over the last 7 years. I have never had the sidewall blow out. The side walls are so robust that it is inconceivable to me that they would ever blow out.

dunderhi
01-06-2011, 06:21 PM
The CBE is one thing. What about in a blizzard in the mountains in central Pennsylvania? Now to compensate for the additional weight of the RFTs I just use the 400 hp and 450 lb ft of torque of my engine along with the incredible traction of xDrive. So, even though my E39 M5 did not have the performance disadvantages of RFTs, it still did not have the maximum performance abilities of my 550i xDrive with RFTs.

For summer tires, the RFT Bridgestone Potenza max performance tires should give a lateral g force on the skidpad of around 0.92 in my car as well as excellent lane change velocity. They were great on my 650i.

Now add the Dinan to the tt V8 and you even compensate more for the added weight of the RFTs. :)

Different strokes for different folks.

I've actually crashed in a blizzard in central PA (no mountains), RFTs wouldn't have made any difference in my situation. As with life, I dealt with it. I've been in multiple blizzards, but I still only have had one flat in 500,000 miles.

0.92 Gees? The stock Goodyears measure at 0.84, so it might be possible. Have you experienced the Bridgestone RFTs at 0.90, 0.91, 0.92, 0.93? How do they handle at the limit? It's a very different answer than what happens with a non-RFT. A tire as soft as the Bridgestone is likely to get flats though, so you are safer with the stock Goodyears.

Since Dinan is in my upgrade plan for my xDrive anyway, tell again how my performance is helped by uneccessary rotational weight?

And yes, we have very different priorities.

dunderhi
01-06-2011, 06:38 PM
I have bent alloy wheels on occasion with RFT's over the last 7 years. I have never had the sidewall blow out. The side walls are so robust that it is inconceivable to me that they would ever blow out.

Okay. I've bent 3 alloy wheels in the past 7 years on non-RFTs, and luckily not a single blowout either. :thumbup:

richschneid
01-07-2011, 02:05 AM
I've actually crashed in a blizzard in central PA (no mountains), RFTs wouldn't have made any difference in my situation. As with life, I dealt with it. I've been in multiple blizzards, but I still only have had one flat in 500,000 miles.

0.92 Gees? The stock Goodyears measure at 0.84, so it might be possible. Have you experienced the Bridgestone RFTs at 0.90, 0.91, 0.92, 0.93? How do they handle at the limit? It's a very different answer than what happens with a non-RFT. A tire as soft as the Bridgestone is likely to get flats though, so you are safer with the stock Goodyears.

Since Dinan is in my upgrade plan for my xDrive anyway, tell again how my performance is helped by uneccessary rotational weight?

And yes, we have very different priorities.

I drove the 650i extensively on the track in both wet and dry conditions at the BMW facility in South Carolina. The Bridgestones were fine at the limit. The point I am try to make is that the car handles extremely well with RFTs. Of course it would be better with non RFTs, but the additional performance does not compensate for the added convenience of the RFTs. My point is that the handling characteristics of my 650i with RFTs was better than the handling characteristics of my E39 M5 with non RFTs.

BTW, the road tests on the stock Goodyears was only 0.84g in one test. Other published tests varied from 0.87-0.89. These are grand touring class RFT tires. The test of my 650i with Potenza RFTS was around 0.92. I suspect with Michelin PS2s it would be 0.93 or 0.94, but I have never seen an actual comparison test. I am willing to give up a little performance at the limit for the benefits of the RFTs.

I had a 540i and E39 M5 with non RFTs, and a 650i with RFTs. The 650i handled far better at both the limits and lower speeds than either E39. Of course, the 650i would have handled even better with non RFTs, but that is not the point. The point is that the 650i with the RFTs is a great handling car, even on the track at the limits.

My point about the RFTs in a blizzard in the mountains in Central Pa is not that the RFTs prevent accidents, it's that it's hard to change a tire or get help to change one in a blizzard. You have never had a flat in a blizzard as you say. I have never had a house fire, but I still have insurance.

Most drivers never even approach 10/10ths on the road, only on the track. The non RFT Dunlop Wintersport M3s I used in the winter on my 650i did not handle nearly as well as the Potenza RFTs I used in the summer. I cannot tell a difference in handling between the Dunlop non RFT winter tires I had on my 650i and the Bridgestone RFT winter tires on my F10. Of course, as a matter of practicality I don't drive as hard in the winter as I do in the summer. I think it would be foolish and unsafe to do so.

dunderhi
01-07-2011, 03:27 PM
I drove the 650i extensively on the track in both wet and dry conditions at the BMW facility in South Carolina. The Bridgestones were fine at the limit. The point I am try to make is that the car handles extremely well with RFTs.

Since you have firsthand experience, please tell me what happens as you approach the limits of static friction and what happens when you exceed them with RFTs? I know how it feels with non-RFTs, but I have not heard good things when you push RFTs near and then beyond their limits.

Of course it would be better with non RFTs, ...


My point exactly!

I have never had a house fire, but I still have insurance.

Oh good analogies! Well, I've actually had my house get hit by lightning (like a nail) and my attic caught on fire (like a flat tire). I dealt with that too - with a fire extinguisher (like a can of tire sealant). I didn't treat my rafters with a preventive fire retardant coating (like an RFT). Finally, I do have fire insurance (like roadside assistance). I like this analogy, thanks. :thumbup:

I had a 540i and E39 M5 with non RFTs, and a 650i with RFTs. The 650i handled far better at both the limits and lower speeds than either E39. Of course, the 650i would have handled even better with non RFTs, but that is not the point.


Again, this is my point! I prefer performance over convenience. For a more scientific comparison (only one variable), I have experience on a single test car (BMW 335d - look below ;)). I have driven about 6,000 miles with Bridgestone Potenza RE-050A RFT Max Performance Summer tires and about 4,000 miles with Continenetal Extreme Contact DWS non-RFT Ultra High Performance All-Season tires. Exact same car, exact same wheels, and exact same tire sizes. It is amazing how much better the car rides. The handling near the limit is much more predictable. The car now has a good road feel, rather than bouncing around like an unsuspended go-kart. I feel much more secure when driving it hard.

Anyway, enjoy your RFTs, I'm not faulting you for choice, it's just not what I'm what out of a set of performance tires.