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TJPark01
01-12-2011, 08:50 AM
BMW 528i to get a four-cylinder turbo and xDrive in the U.S.

Word came down the pipe that BMW is looking to replace their 3.0 liter natural aspirated engine in the F10 BMW 528i with a four-cylinder turbocharged powerplant. The exchange is rumored to take place this summer when the new 528i will also be available in the United States with the xDrive option.

These news come shortly after todays report by Automobile Magazine that BMW Z4 sDrive30i will receive the four-cylinder engine and change its naming convention in the North American market.

According to our sources, the 528i with xDrive was delayed due to the addition of the four-cylinder turbo.

If indeed BMW goes down the route of 28i models powered by four-cylinder units, then we expect the next generation 3 Series and its 328i model to feature the same or a new four-cylinder engine. The move is somewhat expected, especially since BMWs premium competitor Mercedes-Benz is introducing more four-cylinder powerplants in their US line-up.
http://www.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/4_cylinder_petrol_engine2.jpg
FULL ARTICLE (http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/01/12/bmw-528i-to-get-a-four-cylinder-turbo-and-xdrive-in-the-u-s/)

Nedmundo
01-12-2011, 09:19 AM
I knew BMW was adopting turbo fours in the 3 Series, but I'm a little surprised about the 5. Perhaps I shouldn't be, however, because with its new 9-5 Saab has proven a turbo four can be effective in a large, heavy, luxury car. I drove one a few weeks ago, and couldn't believe how effectively the 2.0T moved the 4,000+ pound car. The wide torque plateau does wonders. The mileage is impressive too. This led me to believe U.S. customers will eventually accept turbo fours in luxury cars, but it might take awhile. The success of the turbo four in a BMW 5 will be a good gauge of how quickly the market will adapt.

SeeYal
01-12-2011, 09:38 AM
BMW 528i to get a four-cylinder turbo and xDrive in the U.S.

FULL ARTICLE (http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/01/12/bmw-528i-to-get-a-four-cylinder-turbo-and-xdrive-in-the-u-s/)

I tried the Merc when it was 230C Kompressor in 2005... cheap interior, and way underpowered,... kept it for 2 years, then went back to 6 and 8 cylinders!!
4 cylinders are probably the future, though, :(:cry:

TJPark01
01-12-2011, 09:38 AM
@Nedmundo
I hear you, but the shift to smaller displacement engines with forced induction seems to be mainstream now. It's really incredible how fast the market has changed in just the past few years. Just a couple years ago, if I said name this auto: "Direct Injection twin turbo V6 365HP & 420 lbs-ft torque", you would be thinking Mercedes AMG something right, not Ford F-150 pickup.

Munich77
01-12-2011, 05:40 PM
@Nedmundo
I hear you, but the shift to smaller displacement engines with forced induction seems to be mainstream now. It's really incredible how fast the market has changed in just the past few years. Just a couple years ago, if I said name this auto: "Direct Injection twin turbo V6 365HP & 420 lbs-ft torque", you would be thinking Mercedes AMG something right, not Ford F-150 pickup.

So true... I just hope that BMW is getting its high pressure fuel pumps inline. Smaller engines and turbos are brilliant.

TJPark01
01-12-2011, 06:44 PM
So true... I just hope that BMW is getting its high pressure fuel pumps inline. Smaller engines and turbos are brilliant.

I've had the car 8 months with no issues at all. Only time will tell...with all this new technology being implemented, we will see the ramifications of reliability 5-10 years down the line. All auto makers have to make very hard decisions with regard to engines, gas/diesel/hybrid/EV. If they make a miscalculation in a product line they can get burned really bad. You have to remember that products that you see now were conceived 5 years ago or more. This is why BMW is so reticent about their diesel plans for the US.

raleedy
01-12-2011, 11:45 PM
Nein, danke.

Munich77
01-13-2011, 04:36 AM
I've had the car 8 months with no issues at all. Only time will tell...with all this new technology being implemented, we will see the ramifications of reliability 5-10 years down the line. All auto makers have to make very hard decisions with regard to engines, gas/diesel/hybrid/EV. If they make a miscalculation in a product line they can get burned really bad. You have to remember that products that you see now were conceived 5 years ago or more. This is why BMW is so reticent about their diesel plans for the US.

I wonder if they are also going with the turbo engine because of the raised government fuel economy standards. Many of the BMWs with bigger engines are not that fuel efficient so a small engine in the 528i would help a lot.

pharding
01-13-2011, 05:32 AM
I am sure that is a significant part of the decision plus fuel prices will continue to rise indefinitely.

TJPark01
01-13-2011, 08:24 AM
I wonder if they are also going with the turbo engine because of the raised government fuel economy standards. Many of the BMWs with bigger engines are not that fuel efficient so a small engine in the 528i would help a lot.

This has a huge part in it. Many forced induction 4's can put out more power than larger displacement 6's. But how that power is put down in terms of NVH is a whole other discussion. Also, there is the long term reliability issue.

SteVTEC
01-13-2011, 09:30 AM
I think I just vomited a little.

So is this new engine ONLY going into the xDrive 528 or will it also make it into the regular RWD 528i also? The standard 528i is pleeenty fuel efficient. I think its ratings are like 23/32 mpg or something. Our spring ED trip isn't gonna happen in part because the wife wanted to wait for the '12s. No way I want a stinking 4-banger though! Don't care how good BMW can make one (or not), I've always looooved the sweet sound and feel of their classic naturally aspirated Inline-6 engines. Without that I could honestly care less about the car.

TJPark01
01-13-2011, 09:44 AM
I think I just vomited a little.

So is this new engine ONLY going into the xDrive 528 or will it also make it into the regular RWD 528i also? The standard 528i is pleeenty fuel efficient. I think its ratings are like 23/32 mpg or something. Our spring ED trip isn't gonna happen in part because the wife wanted to wait for the '12s. No way I want a stinking 4-banger though! Don't care how good BMW can make one (or not), I've always looooved the sweet sound and feel of their classic naturally aspirated Inline-6 engines. Without that I could honestly care less about the car.

First, front wheel drive BMW's and now this :cry:? I can't imagine BMW offering up the 528i with the inline 6 with this announcement. Since the 528i is considered entry level, I think the sweet spot for most buyers will be the 535i. I do agree however that the normally aspirated 3.0 L, inline 6 is BMW's core competency, and is iconic as the Porsche flat six or the Dodge Hemi.

SteVTEC
01-14-2011, 07:30 AM
First, front wheel drive BMW's and now this :cry:? I can't imagine BMW offering up the 528i with the inline 6 with this announcement. Since the 528i is considered entry level, I think the sweet spot for most buyers will be the 535i. I do agree however that the normally aspirated 3.0 L, inline 6 is BMW's core competency, and is iconic as the Porsche flat six or the Dodge Hemi.
Exactly.

I'm guessing that the vast majority of BMW's customers have no idea what an "Inline-6" even is or what's so special or different about them, and that this has come out in BMW's market research. Thus they know they can do this and the only people they'll piss off are the few people that post on forums like this. :cry:

I also have a feeling you're right, that they'll probably put this 4-banger in the RWD 528i also. Why market and support two completely different engines at similar power levels? Have loved the NA Inline-6 engines for years and now that we're about ready to finally buy one BMW makes them go extinct. What a shame. I seriously have no interest in the car without the NA Inline-6. Maybe we'll pickup a closeout 2011, or heck even CPO an E60.

Glad I stopped by and thanks for posting this. :(

Nedmundo
01-14-2011, 08:38 AM
I'm guessing that the vast majority of BMW's customers have no idea what an "Inline-6" even is or what's so special or different about them, and that this has come out in BMW's market research. Thus they know they can do this and the only people they'll piss off are the few people that post on forums like this. :cry:

This occurred to me as well. As long as it's a BMW and customers think it has enough power, the engine configuration won't matter. And, based on my test of the new Saab 9-5 Turbo4, I'm sure the BMW will have enough power (really torque) to satisfy most potential buyers. In the process, BMW gets to meet stricter fuel economy standards. It's the direction of the market, and almost certainly a good move. The hard core enthususiasts with the means will simply migrate to the more powerful engines.

I'm hoping the upcoming F30 turbo four 3 Series will hit around 250 lb.-ft. of torque (similar to Audi and Saab), and deliver 35 highway mpg.

SteVTEC
01-14-2011, 08:52 AM
The power and torque may all improve while also improving fuel mileage, and the cost and weight could very well go down as well. But nothing can replace the sublime sound, refinement, and smoothness of a naturally aspirated Inline-6 IMHO. Inline-4 cylinder engines sound and feel nasty in comparison, and turbocharging only makes it worse. I'm guessing the NA I-6 engines will continue in other markets but will be more or less extinct in the U.S.

TJPark01
01-14-2011, 09:06 AM
Exactly.

I'm guessing that the vast majority of BMW's customers have no idea what an "Inline-6" even is or what's so special or different about them, and that this has come out in BMW's market research. Thus they know they can do this and the only people they'll piss off are the few people that post on forums like this. :cry:
BMW is trying to be all things to all people. Car companies have had varying levels of success with this business model. Like you said, most don't even know what the difference between an Inline 6 is versus a V6. Obviously the bimmerfest crowd is an exception. However, being a niche player or too narrow in your product offering can doom you economically in the global marketplace. Although it pains me to see the Porsche Panamera and the SUV Cayenne, as they are both atrocious to look at. They sell, which means more money for the coffers of further 911 development.

raleedy
01-14-2011, 10:23 AM
If I want a front-wheel drive 4-cyl turbo or V6, I can buy an Audi. I can't imagine that there would be a good reason (other than maybe a difference in dealer location or quality) to prefer one from BMW.

Needsdecaf
01-14-2011, 11:04 AM
BMW is trying to be all things to all people. Car companies have had varying levels of success with this business model. Like you said, most don't even know what the difference between an Inline 6 is versus a V6. Obviously the bimmerfest crowd is an exception. However, being a niche player or too narrow in your product offering can doom you economically in the global marketplace. Although it pains me to see the Porsche Panamera and the SUV Cayenne, as they are both atrocious to look at. They sell, which means more money for the coffers of further 911 development.


Think of it from another viewpoint.

CAFE fuel standards in this country and combined CO2 output limits in Europe are making full-compliment marques like BMW slash and burn outputs. They need to make cars like a 4 cylinder 528 so that they can still make a 550i and meet fleet averages.

Rather than a sell out, see it as a way to keep being able to buy 550's rather than them going away altogether.

As for me, if I wanted a turbo 4, I'd buy an Audi, as others have said.

AzNMpower32
01-14-2011, 11:48 AM
So how many of y'all have driven a recent (last 4 years) BMW 4-cylinder? And no, the Mini doesn't count because that engine was developed with Peugeot.

I think it's a great move. BMW makes a great 4-cyl- when I had a 118i for 10 days in Germany and Austria, I never wished for a 6-cyl even in the Alpine passes. Smooth power delivery, very quiet, and fuel consumption that makes the N52 seem like a thirsty Football player in comparison.

SteVTEC
01-14-2011, 06:23 PM
Told the wife about this today and she was like "eeeww, I don't want a 4-CYLINDER!"

That's my girl. :)

AzN - I'm sure BMW does make some nice 4-cylinder engines, and I believe you about the 118i. But that's what again? A sub-2.0L naturally aspirated I4, not a larger one, and not one with a turbo strapped to the side of it either. All of the nasty vibrations and NVH issues that I4 engines have can actually be kept reasonably under control if you're NA and smaller. BMW isn't immune to the laws of physics, though. With the bigger I4's and especially if you add in forced induction and there's great potential to have a powerful, yet very nasty sounding and feeling engine. No I haven't driven an Audi 2.0T lately, but I did have one floor it while going past me a year or so ago and it sounded like absolute crap and was vibrating so badly that I could feel it in my own car. Did I mention they were on the opposite side of the road separated by a good 10-20 yards of grass? :eek:

raleedy
01-14-2011, 06:29 PM
So how many of y'all have driven a recent (last 4 years) BMW 4-cylinder? And no, the Mini doesn't count because that engine was developed with Peugeot.

I think it's a great move. BMW makes a great 4-cyl- when I had a 118i for 10 days in Germany and Austria, I never wished for a 6-cyl even in the Alpine passes. Smooth power delivery, very quiet, and fuel consumption that makes the N52 seem like a thirsty Football player in comparison.

Well, of course they make good fours. It's pretty silly that the 1 series in the US is all 3 liter sixes. That's where I would start with the gasoline four. After offering an economical diesel.

AzNMpower32
01-14-2011, 07:24 PM
Well, of course they make good fours. It's pretty silly that the 1 series in the US is all 3 liter sixes. That's where I would start with the gasoline four. After offering an economical diesel.
What makes the 5er a poor candidate for a 4 cylinder? Does buying a more expensive car entitle the owner to more emissions and fuel consumption? I'm pretty sure BMW wouldn't engineer an "unsmooth" BMW especially at the 5er level, and certainly they know that Americans want "fast and furious." They learned that awhile ago with the 318i hatch, 4-cyl Z3, and X3 2.5i. They're pretty good at offering fast and smooth BMWs thesedays.

Rafa
01-14-2011, 07:50 PM
What makes the 5er a poor candidate for a 4 cylinder? Does buying a more expensive car entitle the owner to more emissions and fuel consumption? I'm pretty sure BMW wouldn't engineer an "unsmooth" BMW especially at the 5er level, and certainly they know that Americans want "fast and furious." They learned that awhile ago with the 318i hatch, 4-cyl Z3, and X3 2.5i. They're pretty good at offering fast and smooth BMWs thesedays.

Perhaps the weight of the F10 makes it a poor candidate.

What's the deal with the "entitlement" statement? I do not understand it. One is not entitled to emit more or less pollutants when purchasing a larger, heavier car. If it is legal, offered by the manufacturer and one can afford it, then one can choose to have a larger engine in his/her car. Would you care to elaborate, as you have me somewhat confused?

AzNMpower32
01-14-2011, 08:08 PM
Perhaps the weight of the F10 makes it a poor candidate.

What's the deal with the "entitlement" statement? I do not understand it. One is not entitled to emit more or less pollutants when purchasing a larger, heavier car. If it is legal, offered by the manufacturer and one can afford it, then one can choose to have a larger engine in his/her car. Would you care to elaborate, as you have me somewhat confused?
Somehow I'm under the impression that folks believe that small engines are for cheap cars, big engines are for expensive cars. There's an element of prestige and status that comes with luxury cars thats supposed to mean they have to be 6 or more cylinders, because a 4-cylinder executive sedan somehow makes little sense on this side of the pond.

A turbo-4 would make at least 200bhp and that's plenty for a 5er. Currently there is a 523i which has a small-six zylinder petrol, making 204bhp. It goes 0-100km/h in just 8 secs and tops out at nearly 240km/h. That's definitely fast enough as a base model, so a turbo-4 with the same output would yield similar results.

Needsdecaf
01-15-2011, 06:55 AM
Somehow I'm under the impression that folks believe that small engines are for cheap cars, big engines are for expensive cars. There's an element of prestige and status that comes with luxury cars thats supposed to mean they have to be 6 or more cylinders, because a 4-cylinder executive sedan somehow makes little sense on this side of the pond.

Cheap gas and perception..you hit the nail on the head.

GO to the other side of the pond and see how many 520i's you see running around.

SteVTEC
01-15-2011, 07:16 AM
A turbo-4 would make at least 200bhp and that's plenty for a 5er. Currently there is a 523i which has a small-six zylinder petrol, making 204bhp. It goes 0-100km/h in just 8 secs and tops out at nearly 240km/h. That's definitely fast enough as a base model, so a turbo-4 with the same output would yield similar results.
Except it would probably sound and feel like crap compared to the NA I6, and refinement is one thing that luxury buyers tend to expect. That's also why higher-powered 4-cylinders have had a difficult time finding a place in luxury vehicles.

TJPark01
01-15-2011, 11:29 AM
Well, of course they make good fours. It's pretty silly that the 1 series in the US is all 3 liter sixes. That's where I would start with the gasoline four. After offering an economical diesel.

Ward's awarded Mini 1.6L Turbocharged DOHC I-4 as a top 10 engine for 2011. The 1 is the prime candidate for these 4's.

SteVTEC
01-18-2011, 05:24 PM
The 1 is the prime candidate for these 4's.
Agree totally on that. The long Inline-6 seems silly in those cars, and in fact having to accommodate it compromises the overall design of the car and available passenger space.

guyplush
01-19-2011, 10:09 AM
Do they still have the promotion for 528xi owners to move up to the 535xdrive for the discounted price. My lease on the 528xi is coming up in May. I would have to order my f10 by late March early April for May delivery or will the 528xdrive be available for May delivery.

TJPark01
01-19-2011, 10:41 AM
How the 2.0L Turbo Four May Compare To the 3.0L NA Six:
It was just a matter of time before BMW took the thinking that went into the N54/N55 direct injected turbocharged six cylinders and applied it to the naturally aspirated N52 six. And the result is a direct injected two liter turbocharged four cylinder that will roll out in the North American market in the X1 and, before long, probably all other vehicles that use that currently the N52B30 six.
Odd thing is, if you look at the rated HP/Tq numbers for the N52 they vary by installation. The 128i/328i show max HP as 230 and torque at 200 lb ft (at 2750 RPM). The new X3 xDrive 28i (can they make the namingany more ridiculous?) is 240 max HP and 221 lb ft (at 2750-4000 RPM). The 528i is 240 max HP and 230 lb ft (at 2600 3000 rpm). So, it would appear that the engineers are optimizing torque for the platform the engine is used in.
http://www.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/018058.3-lg-655x403.jpg
BMW N52 6-cyl shown here

What we know about the turbo direct injection motors is that they start with bags of torque off idle (~ 1300 RPM) and the torque curve stays flat to at least 4000+ RPM. Stump pulling amounts of torque. The new four compares quite favorably with an NA six for power output.
For instance the Mercedes Benz C300 Sport uses a 3 liter V6 that produces 228 HP and 221 lb ft of torque from 2700 to 5000 RPM. Thats decent power. Lose a liter gain a turbo and you get slightly better HP and significantly better torque right off the line (1250 RPM) with the new BMW engine.
So itll be a decent substitute for the N52 from a power production standpoint. Because its shorter, it may also contribute to even better handling dynamics. And since its a turbo, there will be after market mods galore for it and within five months of it appearing in the US market some tuner will be bragging about hitting 325 HP with the thing.

Any downside? Yeah, just a bit the N52 seems to be the swan song of the naturally aspirated inline six (even Volvo may walk away from their NA inline six if rumors are correct). And in the grand scheme of things,while the new engine will be more powerful and more frugal, itll still bring a wisp of sadness when the N52 is no more . . .

FULL ARTICLE HERE (http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/01/19/analysis-how-the-2-0l-turbo-four-may-compare-to-the-3-0l-na-six/)

TMQ
01-19-2011, 02:50 PM
I don't expect the turbo4 to improve much in fuel efficiency. At least people have not seen this happening with the Audi turbo4.

TJPark01
01-19-2011, 03:20 PM
I don't expect the turbo4 to improve much in fuel efficiency. At least people have not seen this happening with the Audi turbo4.

Maybe if you drive like a squirrel. Or if your commute involves mostly stop and go traffic.

beashonda
01-19-2011, 03:41 PM
Do they still have the promotion for 528xi owners to move up to the 535xdrive for the discounted price. My lease on the 528xi is coming up in May. I would have to order my f10 by late March early April for May delivery or will the 528xdrive be available for May delivery.

It was a great deal that I was able to get in on in December 2010, along with the holiday cash. My dealer even ate the last two payments. They discounted or applied a loyalty factor to the x drive money factor. The current money factor is much lower than the loyalty one I got last month, so Ihope it is still in effect for you.

Good Luck. It's a beast compared to the 528xi and I loved that car and there's more power than I need in the 535 x-drive, but it's NIIIIIIIIIIIIIICCCCCCCCCCCCCCE.

SteVTEC
01-19-2011, 06:20 PM
I don't expect the turbo4 to improve much in fuel efficiency. At least people have not seen this happening with the Audi turbo4.They seem to be able to game the EPA test cycles better with the turbo-4's, which is all the gov cares about. Correct. Real-world mileage with these things rarely live up to expectation. Especially for enthusiasts, all that torque on tap = burning just as much if not more gas than you would otherwise. More available power (at low RPM) = more fuel burned.

AzNMpower32
01-19-2011, 06:52 PM
They seem to be able to game the EPA test cycles better with the turbo-4's, which is all the gov cares about. Correct. Real-world mileage with these things rarely live up to expectation. Especially for enthusiasts, all that torque on tap = burning just as much if not more gas than you would otherwise. More available power (at low RPM) = more fuel burned.
The gov't and casual consumers only care about the test numbers on the sticker. The US gov't isn't going to levy a fine based on the subjective argument that "BMWs don't actually achieve in real life that the EPA got." Its the CAFE numbers that count.

You wonder why many cars, like BMW, now have a wonky throttle tip-in.

eyesight1
01-19-2011, 08:29 PM
The possibility of a turbo 4 in a 5 series is interesting. The car itself - handling, comfort features etc will all be the same, just the power would be different. Meeting CAFE requirements is certainly putting a lot of pressure on all manufacturers. However, a 4,000 pound luxury car with only around 200 hp just doesn't seem like a good move. My wife and I debated between the current 528 and 535 and decided to go with more power and X drive. I don't think we would have even considered a turbo 4 in a car this large. Just my $0.02

raleedy
01-19-2011, 08:44 PM
The possibility of a turbo 4 in a 5 series is interesting. The car itself - handling, comfort features etc will all be the same, just the power would be different. Meeting CAFE requirements is certainly putting a lot of pressure on all manufacturers. However, a 4,000 pound luxury car with only around 200 hp just doesn't seem like a good move. My wife and I debated between the current 528 and 535 and decided to go with more power and X drive. I don't think we would have even considered a turbo 4 in a car this large. Just my $0.02

Well, the turbo 4 has now been announced for the X1, rated at 245 Hp in Euros, with significant improvement in Euro fuel consumption rating, but probably not better than the 528i's 32mpg highway. Note, too, that the N52 EPA numbers for the X3 28i stink -- they aren't even as good as the X3 35i! It's the gearing that kills it.

Munich77
01-19-2011, 08:46 PM
If they put a turbo in the engine will have to feel similar to the straight six it replaces. On the upside, perhaps a 4 cylinder turbo is lighter making for a lighter car overall.

UltimateDriving
01-19-2011, 09:09 PM
Don't Blame BMW dudes, blame goverments that changes efficiency regulations all the F****** time.
If they still make NA engines, all their cars would cost a lot more!
Probably wouldn't even be in the market.

SteVTEC
01-20-2011, 04:15 AM
The gov't and casual consumers only care about the test numbers on the sticker. The US gov't isn't going to levy a fine based on the subjective argument that "BMWs don't actually achieve in real life that the EPA got." Its the CAFE numbers that count.

You wonder why many cars, like BMW, now have a wonky throttle tip-in.You know I was just thinking, BMW and a lot of the other premium automakers have routinely paid huge CAFE penalties for decades now, merely passing on the costs to consumers. Why start complying now, if that's what this is about? Unless something big has changed either in the US or in Europe? Or maybe BMW themselves no longer believes in the NA I-6? That wouldn't surprise me, actually.

SteVTEC
01-20-2011, 04:17 AM
Don't Blame BMW dudes, blame goverments that changes efficiency regulations all the F****** time.
If they still make NA engines, all their cars would cost a lot more!
Probably wouldn't even be in the market.
By the time you're done strapping a turbo, intercooler, and other turbo support hardware onto a 4-cylinder, it's probably about the same price to build as an NA I-6 is.

Needsdecaf
01-20-2011, 05:02 AM
By the time you're done strapping a turbo, intercooler, and other turbo support hardware onto a 4-cylinder, it's probably about the same price to build as an NA I-6 is.

Yup.

And not necessarily lighter. I was surprised at the curb weight difference between a 528 and 535. Considering the only difference is the Xenons and the wheels....

AzNMpower32
01-20-2011, 07:17 AM
You know I was just thinking, BMW and a lot of the other premium automakers have routinely paid huge CAFE penalties for decades now, merely passing on the costs to consumers. Why start complying now, if that's what this is about? Unless something big has changed either in the US or in Europe?
Cutting costs? A fine they don't have to pay (or pay less for) is good for the bottom line.

Brand dilution is becoming the norm, market expansion is the #1 goal. BMW watered down the M brand by putting in a turbo-8 cylinder in a truck with an automatic gearbox. VW watered down their offerings to cut costs and expand to their goal of 800.000 sales a year in the US. Honda started making some pretty horrendous things (Crosstour anyone?) for the sake of filling in a non-existent niche.

TJPark01
01-20-2011, 09:10 AM
By the time you're done strapping a turbo, intercooler, and other turbo support hardware onto a 4-cylinder, it's probably about the same price to build as an NA I-6 is.
Also, what are the longer term implications regarding out of warranty maintenance? I can't imagine they get better with forced induction and higher compression. I guess it's like beautiful women. The maintenance associated with them doesn't make them less desirable and they will continue their behavior because they know there are people out there who will tolerate it till no end, e.g. us.

SteVTEC
01-20-2011, 09:36 AM
Cutting costs? A fine they don't have to pay (or pay less for) is good for the bottom line.

Brand dilution is becoming the norm, market expansion is the #1 goal. BMW watered down the M brand by putting in a turbo-8 cylinder in a truck with an automatic gearbox. VW watered down their offerings to cut costs and expand to their goal of 800.000 sales a year in the US. Honda started making some pretty horrendous things (Crosstour anyone?) for the sake of filling in a non-existent niche.
Yeah I know, it all makes perfect sense right? Except this is BMW we're talking about. Nobody buys these cars to save money. If I really wanted to save money I'd buy a Ford, or maybe another POS Toyota. Isn't this the company that also ran "ultimate driving machine" and "no compromise" ads just a few short years ago? I'm willing to pay a premium for a sweet sounding and feeling naturally aspirated Inline-6 which to me is very much a part of that "ultimate driving machine" equation. A nasty sounding and feeling Inline-4 with a turbo isn't. If BMW is willing to dilute their brand to the point of putting the lowest common denominator engine configuration in the world into one of their premium luxury sedans, then maybe I should consider a Ford alongside it? :dunno:

That new Taurus SHO looks pretty sweet. :D

AzNMpower32
01-20-2011, 09:57 AM
Yeah I know, it all makes perfect sense right? Except this is BMW we're talking about. Nobody buys these cars to save money. If I really wanted to save money I'd buy a Ford, or maybe another POS Toyota. Isn't this the company that also ran "ultimate driving machine" and "no compromise" ads just a few short years ago? I'm willing to pay a premium for a sweet sounding and feeling naturally aspirated Inline-6 which to me is very much a part of that "ultimate driving machine" equation. A nasty sounding and feeling Inline-4 with a turbo isn't. If BMW is willing to dilute their brand to the point of putting the lowest common denominator engine configuration in the world into one of their premium luxury sedans, then maybe I should consider a Ford alongside it? :dunno:

That new Taurus SHO looks pretty sweet. :D
BMW still offers a 535i and 550i for those interested in a I6 or V8. Lots of power, meaty sound, its still on sale. It's not like they force you to buy 4 zylinder. :)

By expanding engine offerings to more fuel-efficient drivetrains, BMW can attract more customers. For instance, I'd buy a 1er if it came in a 4-cyl diesel, but because that's not coming anytime soon, I'm moving down the ladder. The VW Golf TDI is likely replacing the X3 unless the 123d magically shows up on our shores.

raleedy
01-20-2011, 02:49 PM
It's not like they force you to buy 4 zylinder. :)

.

No, but they're putting the 4 cylinder at a price point in the US that is outside the usual range. And it's a turbo. If you don't want a turbo, you're out of luck. Frankly, I think the Buick Regal turbo at $34K is a much more attractive proposition.

magbarn
01-20-2011, 02:55 PM
Yeah I know, it all makes perfect sense right? Except this is BMW we're talking about. Nobody buys these cars to save money. If I really wanted to save money I'd buy a Ford, or maybe another POS Toyota. Isn't this the company that also ran "ultimate driving machine" and "no compromise" ads just a few short years ago? I'm willing to pay a premium for a sweet sounding and feeling naturally aspirated Inline-6 which to me is very much a part of that "ultimate driving machine" equation. A nasty sounding and feeling Inline-4 with a turbo isn't. If BMW is willing to dilute their brand to the point of putting the lowest common denominator engine configuration in the world into one of their premium luxury sedans, then maybe I should consider a Ford alongside it? :dunno:

That new Taurus SHO looks pretty sweet. :D

My thoughts exactly, but it all comes down to idiotic politicians with their CAFE and the idiotic typical BMW buyer who only cares about the Roundel and not what's underneath the hood.

SteVTEC, aren't you from Honda forums and Maxima forums back in the 90's?

AzNMpower32
01-20-2011, 07:35 PM
No, but they're putting the 4 cylinder at a price point in the US that is outside the usual range. And it's a turbo. If you don't want a turbo, you're out of luck. Frankly, I think the Buick Regal turbo at $34K is a much more attractive proposition.
Test drove it, it's not really in the same league. For starters, the interior room is more comparable to a 3er. Then there's the issue of the steering and brake feel. It's a good value and good car, but I don't think it's comparable to the 5er.

SteVTEC
01-21-2011, 06:59 AM
BMW still offers a 535i and 550i for those interested in a I6 or V8. Lots of power, meaty sound, its still on sale. It's not like they force you to buy 4 zylinder. :)
Except the 528i with the N52B30 is what we want, not an N54/N55 with way more power than we can enjoy, and practically zero sound. The N55 was dead quiet in the 535 even at full throttle. I matted it several times and it's very muted. The N52 felt more crisp and had a much nicer sound while still being plenty powerful. And now it'll get replaced by a crappy sounding and feeling 4-banger with a completely different style of power delivery.

You're right, they're not forcing you to buy a 4-banger, but for me they're eliminating the happy medium and also their own classical workhorse NA Inline-6 engine for which they've been known for decades.

SteVTEC
01-21-2011, 07:06 AM
My thoughts exactly, but it all comes down to idiotic politicians with their CAFE and the idiotic typical BMW buyer who only cares about the Roundel and not what's underneath the hood.

SteVTEC, aren't you from Honda forums and Maxima forums back in the 90's?:wave:

I read on the "other" forum, that an insider has more or less confirmed that the switchover to this "N20" engine for the F10 will be September 2011, I guess coinciding with the annual shutdown and switchover to new model year for the U.S. We were tentatively planning to do an ED in October for an N52B30 powered 528i, except now that's going to be gone.

I also read on the other forum that there are huge taxes on engine displacements over 2.0L in a lot of other countries (actually, I knew that before but had no idea how huge the taxes were), and that unless BMW came out with something like this they'd pretty much be out of business. That I can understand - more government manipulation via stupid regulations, so the challenge is to find something that will work for all markets. The N52 is plenty efficient, but still falls into the displacement tax trap. Understanding the global situation a bit more I'm a little less pissed at BMW and more pissed at the politicians for this.

raleedy
01-21-2011, 08:36 AM
I believe there is nothing new about displacement-based taxes. I also believe there is room for a range of engine choices. I see nothing in the tax narrative that justifies eliminating NA gasoline engines from the line-up.