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anthony@empireleasing
01-12-2011, 11:21 PM
I feel lonley.... anyone else have a car without the 6vc combox and want to try and do something about it? I do. Please let me know if i have any other prople who want whats fair.

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nyranger74
01-13-2011, 06:42 AM
What can you do? I have an August production X5 and would love the Combox, but BMW is not going to retrofit it.


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mlai
01-13-2011, 06:51 AM
I feel lonley.... anyone else have a car without the 6vc combox and want to try and do something about it? I do. Please let me know if i have any other prople who want whats fair.

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Yeah. Total the F10, get your insurance to pay for another one:rofl:

PS. I tried.:bawling:

pharding
01-13-2011, 06:54 AM
I wish that I get combox retrofitted to my June 2010 build 550i. Hopefully BMW will offer this. However BMW is going to continue to make the F10 better on a running basis and there are real limits as to what can be retrofitted to a complex car. I am still extremely happy with my F10 and it serves its intended purpose quite well. Plus I lease and I know that by 2013 the F10 will have even better stuff available than the combox.

anthony@empireleasing
01-13-2011, 07:39 AM
Is it a matter of they cant retrofit or they wont? What i am saying is that if its a handfull of cats they probably think we will just shut up and miss out. I think we need to approach them as a group. Not just call na and listen to a script on how they feel bad but there is nothing that they can do. Its that they aren't willing to do something

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GHOST PROTOCOL
01-13-2011, 08:15 AM
Hey all. It seems to me that the F10 is just like a computer. The moment you buy it and take it out of the box (or in this case off the lot), it is already out dated technology. There is always something more advanced on the horizon. I have read some posts where I have seen that BMW has improved the NAV screen and that it will be available shortly. My F10 is a week 37 build and has the combox, but it sure would have been great to get that new NAV screen. I guess we have to enjoy to the fullest the version of the F10 that we have. I can understand why BMW would not retrofit an F10 with the combox. If every time BMW makes an improvement, there would be a floodgate of requests to retrofit older vehicles. On the other hand I do not understand it. If a retrofit is possible and the customer willing to pay for it, why would BMW refuse the business?

ihumphrey
01-13-2011, 08:42 AM
Hey all. It seems to me that the F10 is just like a computer. The moment you buy it and take it out of the box (or in this case off the lot), it is already out dated technology. There is always something more advanced on the horizon. I have read some posts where I have seen that BMW has improved the NAV screen and that it will be available shortly. My F10 is a week 37 build and has the combox, but it sure would have been great to get that new NAV screen. I guess we have to enjoy to the fullest the version of the F10 that we have. I can understand why BMW would not retrofit an F10 with the combox. If every time BMW makes an improvement, there would be a floodgate of requests to retrofit older vehicles. On the other hand I do not understand it. If a retrofit is possible and the customer willing to pay for it, why would BMW refuse the business?

This is why I lease the car...makes it a known and straightforward cost to get the most updated version every few years...even if more often than not it costs a bit more.

anthony@empireleasing
01-13-2011, 08:46 AM
I understand that bmw cannot change parts out hell i sell cars for a living..i understand the margins the r and d etc etc...what i am saying is they rolled out a car and within 2 months of hitting the market they made some noteworthy and major changes. can anyone tell me exactly what the difference between the two combox versions is???

I know I cant stream music.

No album art.

What else?

What will be fixed by a software update and what is not going to work. This is where I am confused I know they made the navi screen bigger etc... thats fine I understand that more then a change 4 weeks after my car was built. March is far from august and its a new model year those will be 2012 cars.

GHOST PROTOCOL
01-13-2011, 08:47 AM
This is why I lease the car...makes it a known and straightforward cost to get the most updated version every few years...even if more often than not it costs a bit more.

This is why I lease as well. I also have an economic advantage that not everyone has. I am self employed and my automobile lease constitutes a legitimate business expense. Even if I did not have this advantage, I would still lease and get the most current version of the vehicle every three years.

anthony@empireleasing
01-13-2011, 08:58 AM
I understand the leasing concept...what i am looking for is a list a legitimate list of features that this 6vc adds ...not a list or reasons why i should give my money to bmw and not expect everything i want. I dont feel like waiting 3 years to get the ability to listen to internet radio in my car. What i am trying to do is get a list of people together who are interested in pursuing this further and then contacting someone in upper management at bmw na to see if they can give us a good answer

GHOST PROTOCOL
01-13-2011, 09:12 AM
Try this link:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508179&highlight=combox

Needsdecaf
01-13-2011, 09:14 AM
Let me ask this: does anyone without the combox feel like their car is a letdown in this category?

97mdrei
01-13-2011, 09:24 AM
Let me ask this: does anyone without the combox feel like their car is a letdown in this category?

Good question...my answer is no.

anthony@empireleasing
01-13-2011, 09:30 AM
I definately feel that 4 weeks in build time should not make a difference in the ability to upgrade or add features to a car so yes if the new combox if "future Proof" i am let down in the area...other areas of the car i love

dsteve
01-13-2011, 09:51 AM
I definately feel that 4 weeks in build time should not make a difference in the ability to upgrade or add features to a car so yes if the new combox if "future Proof" i am let down in the area...other areas of the car i love

So, really, what you're saying is that they shouldn't make such a change except on day 0 of a new model year. Otherwise, if they make such a change any time during the model year, then there would be some point where one car doesn't have the change, and the next car does.

If they abided by such a rule, then they just would have just waited until the 2012 model to come out with the change, and you still wouldn't have it.

anthony@empireleasing
01-13-2011, 10:02 AM
Bro who cares... all i am trying to do is get bmw to retrofit the thing in my car. I could swap out my car and loose money but i dont want to. I thought forums were places to get people on same page. I want them to change and update everything i just want the ability to upgrade as well.

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beashonda
01-13-2011, 02:27 PM
I understand that bmw cannot change parts out hell i sell cars for a living..i understand the margins the r and d etc etc...what i am saying is they rolled out a car and within 2 months of hitting the market they made some noteworthy and major changes. can anyone tell me exactly what the difference between the two combox versions is???

I know I cant stream music.

No album art.

What else?

What will be fixed by a software update and what is not going to work. This is where I am confused I know they made the navi screen bigger etc... thats fine I understand that more then a change 4 weeks after my car was built. March is far from august and its a new model year those will be 2012 cars.

Unfortunately, and this isn't meant as a dig, there was a price to pay to be one of the first folks or early adopters on the road with an F10. Many folks do not buy MY01 cars for that reason. Since I lease, I care less about the stuff I'm potentially missing out on because in 3 years, there will be new stuff. Between satelitte radio, my ipod and the regular radio, there is more music than I can listen to at any one time on my ride to and from work.

anthony@empireleasing
01-13-2011, 05:29 PM
There should be no major changes and bmw has swept this under the rug cause it only affects a few people. I have a fully loaded 550 i pay under 875 i dont care but i would like to use iphone app etc. Everyone else too easy to please i guess. I am demanding and want bmw to fix the issue. I will try and get mine done.

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GHOST PROTOCOL
01-13-2011, 06:01 PM
There should be no major changes and bmw has swept this under the rug cause it only affects a few people. I have a fully loaded 550 i pay under 875 i dont care but i would like to use iphone app etc. Everyone else too easy to please i guess. I am demanding and want bmw to fix the issue. I will try and get mine done.

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Here is an argument that you could use with your dealer that may help you get what you want. If a post September build F10 were in an automobile accident and the combox were destroyed, the facility repairing your vehicle would have to order a new combox and install it in the vehicle. This means that a combox can be ordered and that somebody at your dealer knows how to install it in an F10. Your vehicle does not have a combox, but you want one. As long as you agree to pay the price, your dealer should be able to order a combox (it's an available part) and install it in your vehicle (the knowledge on how to does exist). The only thing that would cut against this argument would be if there is some physical and/or technological difference between the pre and post September builds that would prohibit the installation (maybe the wiring is not in place or maybe the vehicle is just otherwise not compatible). It might be more complicated than simply installing the combox. In theory, however, it seems it could be done. Have you thought about asking a non dealer BMW repair shop to do the work?

anthony@empireleasing
01-13-2011, 06:13 PM
I am working with my dealer to see if retrofit is available... but its like the m sport parts that cant be ordered as of yet nobody has an answer

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Needsdecaf
01-14-2011, 05:37 AM
I am working with my dealer to see if retrofit is available... but its like the m sport parts that cant be ordered as of yet nobody has an answer

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You are dealing with dealers, and most of them probably wouldn't know what a combox was if you asked them. This car is still in it's first MY, and that type of information just isn't largely available, I would suspect.

pharding
01-14-2011, 05:52 AM
Let me ask this: does anyone without the combox feel like their car is a letdown in this category?
No. I have a great car and I understood that BMW will make changes after I bought the car. BMW came out with the M-sport package after I took delivery of my 550i. Should I start a petition here for new front bumper, rear bumper, etc. The answer is no. BMW is afine responsible company with great customer service. However they are not fools. Good luck with your protest.

pharding
01-14-2011, 06:00 AM
Here is an argument that you could use with your dealer that may help you get what you want. If a post September build F10 were in an automobile accident and the combox were destroyed, the facility repairing your vehicle would have to order a new combox and install it in the vehicle. This means that a combox can be ordered and that somebody at your dealer knows how to install it in an F10. Your vehicle does not have a combox, but you want one. As long as you agree to pay the price, your dealer should be able to order a combox (it's an available part) and install it in your vehicle (the knowledge on how to does exist). The only thing that would cut against this argument would be if there is some physical and/or technological difference between the pre and post September builds that would prohibit the installation (maybe the wiring is not in place or maybe the vehicle is just otherwise not compatible). It might be more complicated than simply installing the combox. In theory, however, it seems it could be done. Have you thought about asking a non dealer BMW repair shop to do the work?
If a F10 is wrecked and only the box is damaged or has a defective box, you will get the same box, not the new combox. BMW and its suppliers stock electronic parts, much as they stock body and engine parts. It is likely that there are wiring, software, and other substantial differences outside of an electronic module. If it were easy to replace BMW would offer to do it for a fee. Anything can be done somehow, it boils down to how much money that one wants to spend.

anthony@empireleasing
01-14-2011, 08:35 AM
Its not about starting petitions... it was obvious m sport comes out after 6 months or so it always doss. These changes werent on the radar. You guys really sweat bmw. They have the money let them fix the issues. As far as dealer knowledge i suspect they should outsource tech support to us at the fest.

Drink the bmw coolaid... i didnt start the post for opion i started to solve a problem i would appreciate less theory and more facts.

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caglanaras
01-26-2011, 12:22 AM
If you purchased your 535i AFTER the September build but did not receive the combox option, you have been scammed. Because you have paid for a feature (IPOD integration) that works differently depending on whether you were delivered a pre or post Sept build vehicle.

The dealer does not tell you when the product was built-it just tells you that you are purchasing the Ipod integration. If one person who pays $400 for this feature gets the Artwork on their Nav Screen, and the other does not, the person who did not receive it was delivered a defective vehicle, OR should have been notified that they were being sold a vehicle with a different feature for the same price. If your dealer did not notify you of this, you have a reasonable claim to have this problem fixed.

The same holds by the way on how the audio is integrated. The recepient of a post-2011 build vehicle gets digital integration whereas others get analog integration. Given that we have been in the digital age for some time, this is a material difference that should be told to the buyer.


When you buy any merchandise, it is delivered with a set of features. If they are different, the seller is expected to indicate this, especially for such a high priced purchase. Otherwise, you are getting an inferior product for the same price.

In both cases, BMW should be notifying buyers. In fact, anyone who knows about this would be stupid to buy a pre- Sept vehicle unless they are offered a special reason to do so. Why buy an obsolete car?


A lawyer will have a heyday with this one!!

Needsdecaf
01-26-2011, 05:57 AM
A lawyer will have a heyday with this one!!

If I were a BMW attorney, I would lose precisely zero sleep over this.

anthony@empireleasing
01-26-2011, 08:02 AM
Bmw should just fix the handful of cars that are affected by this. Wish there were others who felt this way.

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alex_c
01-26-2011, 09:17 AM
Anthony, I'm 100% with you. I feel cheated by BMW. I have completely lost my faith and trust in this brand by the cheap and unprofessional way they have handled this situation.

And by the way, they did false advertising. If you look at the ConnectedDrive features, for the 2011 535, it shows album cover art and bluetooth streamming as features available since MARCH and JUNE 2010, WHICH IS COMPLETELY FALSE.

anthony@empireleasing
01-26-2011, 10:29 AM
There are June July and Aug Production cars only missing the combox...besides the few demo models we saw at the dealers which didn't hit until late may. maybe someone bought one used who knows. How many cars could it be??? Many here do not agree with me...what else is new...but i feel that a 2011 should be a 2011. I understand the minor updates that come between model years. ie they might change a tali light or upgrade a screen between 2011 and 2012 but something within the year should have it. Heck if the 2011 750 has had it all year they should have put it in early production 550 535 528s. Its not like they just started using this thing. My car was built 7/8. I was already way past my extension on my 335i and every time i turned around i got a flat tire or had problems with injectors etc...i needed a new car...would i have waited? yes if i could have...did i even know? no and neither did the dealer. The problem is partly maybe us gentlemen on the boards know a bit too much sometime? I really wasn't watching the fest at the time cause of my on going battle with bmw over the previous vehicle i had and a crappy service department that drilled holes in my engine block and used screws to put my injectors back in. I would pay to have this issue rectified...After all i have 2.5 more years with this car and I want everything it should have. I am not looking for a free ride just an option or maybe a fix.

caglanaras
01-26-2011, 11:54 AM
Folks- This is an issue of deceptive advertising. When there are two cars in the lot that are priced the same for the same iPOD integration feature but are materially different in what they do, then this difference needs to be disclosed. If there is a functional difference between buying a car on the lot and ordering it, this also needs to be disclosed. If I knew about the difference and was able to make my choice, that would be OK. But if the dealer has both cars on the lot or knows that you get something better if you order, then they know that there is a difference and are not disclosing it. This is deceptive selling and there are consumer protection rules against it.


When you buy a dishwasher or a PC, all of these differences are loud and clear. When buying a $60K vehicle, they need to be at the same level of clarity. I am frankly disgusted with BMW's behavior and beleive this is something they need to remedy. If you feel the same way, lets get together and have this fixed.

anthony@empireleasing
01-26-2011, 11:58 AM
I agree especially for u guys who bought off a lot... i ordered and nobody said a thing and bmw website is useless... i have some info for people at bmw na but i need some other people interested in getting involved

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caglanaras
01-26-2011, 12:13 PM
I just escalated with my dealer by calling the GM of the dealership Not sure whether they will do anything about it so may have to escalate further. If more people escalate, BMW will realize how much they upset their customers here. I am guessing there are several thousand owners who are in the same situation. The cost of cleaning this up is nothing compared to the negative publicity and loss of loyalty.

If you have friends who bought and have the same issue of deceitful selling, let them know so that they can contact their dealer.

anthony@empireleasing
01-26-2011, 12:30 PM
I think we need to go beyond the dealer and go to NA direct. I will draft an email shortly and see if i can get a response from them. whats the option number code for the combox is it 6vc? I would like to help any way i can as i feel a bit cheated as well. especially as an early adopter who has not only bought but moved may units for bmw. I know they have the right to do these things...i know they will do these things but within a two month period to make a major change seems wrong to me. I think its being kept hush hush because they will have to give some type of buyers remorse or fix the issue.

anthony@empireleasing
01-26-2011, 12:46 PM
Is this the correct combox for post sept on?? if so whats the difference between this one and the one we have physically they look the same as the ones that are sold on bmw retrofit ie the same size shape etc.

ksoze
01-26-2011, 12:52 PM
Is this the correct combox for post sept on?? if so whats the difference between this one and the one we have physically they look the same as the ones that are sold on bmw retrofit ie the same size shape etc.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480853

caglanaras
01-26-2011, 12:59 PM
Yes, any manufacturer has the right to make changes on their product. I work for a large networking equipment company and we do this all of the time. The issue is one of MATERIAL change. If they change a bolt or a light that does not have any externally visible functionality, or does not change what the customer experiences, then these are typically OK.

For any change that affects customer value or functionality, there is always notification. This allows for two things- it prevents any future liability since the customer is informed. Second, it prevents any revenue recognition issues since an informed customer cannot return the product. Even though we sign all of these document for final acceptance, if the company is not delivering what they have promised, the final acceptance is not valid. Most products are not sold "as is" like a home... They are sold to specifications. In this case, there is a published "spec" in the form of BMW dealership literature that indicates that the 2011 model comes with this better integration of digital audio, Ipod album covers etc. However, this is not provided to customers.

So in our case, BMW made a user visible change which is considered MATERIAL, offered both the old and the new at the same time, and did not tell customers of this difference while charging the same price for the feature (iPOD integration).

I know this sounds like legalese.. What is important here is that we a purchasing a $60,000 vehicle that is laden with technology that we all care about. BMW needs to plan its product development properly so that we, the people who pay for the products they produce, are not left with an obsolete product.

Imagine if someone put an ad in the Wall Street Journal or NY times to tell all prospective buyers of this difference? No one would pay the same price for the obsolete car...BMW would have to either fix this problem or discount the older cars...

anthony@empireleasing
01-27-2011, 01:11 PM
I agree that they should have either rolled out the completely new model with the sept changes or at least made it so that they could be fixed...I am preparing a letter to a person at NA now to see if i can get an answer. I wold like them to be able t fix this issue. I am sure there is some way to do it. I just think that they are keeping quiet because there aren't many of us out there. They should just man up and fix the issue and put us on a level playing field. Completely new car should roll out with all the new features. Keep trying to make noise about this issue maybe someone reading the boards will see and act.

caglanaras
01-27-2011, 05:02 PM
The dealer came back to me with a "we are working with BMW to resolve your issue".

I suspect they are noodling over whether this is an epidemic or just one irate customer that they can gloss over.... The more people who ask about the combox, the more they will realize the colossal product planning error they made...

Do you have more people that are similarly inconvenienced?

anthony@empireleasing
01-27-2011, 05:14 PM
I wrote to bmw na today... i started thread to see who else i think others may have become frustrated not sure but would love to go at this like a group

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Needsdecaf
01-27-2011, 06:22 PM
I wrote to bmw na today... i started thread to see who else i think others may have become frustrated not sure but would love to go at this like a group

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I will send an email, but not sure what the talking points are or who to send it to.

anthony@empireleasing
01-27-2011, 06:39 PM
I had a previous problem with my 335i so i had a contact in the company. My main concern is that when you roll out a brand new platform it should have all the bells and whistles. I asked for a retrofit option or fix for the handful of cars.
Does your vehicle have the combox?

If not then maybe you can ask your service manager or call assist and open a complaint

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anthony@empireleasing
01-29-2011, 10:57 AM
Official response.......


aka official brushoff

Thank you for your comments.
I am sorry to hear of your disappointment.

The short answer to your question is there is no retro fit.
Unfortunately it is not possible to adapt a Combox to your vehicle (at any price).

New technology is developed and our products do evolve.
I am sorry you happen to hit a time when such a production change occurred.

I do recognize and appreciate your concern.
I am sorry we could not accommodate this request.

Best regards,



So what i think we should do is get the info to one sepcific rep at bmw and everyone with this concern should call that person direct...perhaps if one person gets ten identical cases on their desk we will get a better response.

Needsdecaf
01-29-2011, 11:41 AM
Official response.......


aka official brushoff

Thank you for your comments.
I am sorry to hear of your disappointment.

The short answer to your question is there is no retro fit.
Unfortunately it is not possible to adapt a Combox to your vehicle (at any price).

New technology is developed and our products do evolve.
I am sorry you happen to hit a time when such a production change occurred.

I do recognize and appreciate your concern.
I am sorry we could not accommodate this request.

Best regards,



So what i think we should do is get the info to one sepcific rep at bmw and everyone with this concern should call that person direct...perhaps if one person gets ten identical cases on their desk we will get a better response.

Have you considered the fact that they are telling the truth? It may be that the wiring of the car has changed to a certain extent that the combox cannot be put into a vehicle with the older harness.

highyo
01-29-2011, 12:08 PM
Have you considered the fact that they are telling the truth? It may be that the wiring of the car has changed to a certain extent that the combox cannot be put into a vehicle with the older harness.

this is a tempest in a teacup.

pharding
01-29-2011, 12:25 PM
Those that are unhappy should just follow the example of the protesters in North Africa and just set your new F10 on fire to make your point. Then please post the photos here.

anthony@empireleasing
01-30-2011, 12:58 PM
Do last three posters have combox equipped cars?

I would venture to say that the harness could be adapted since it looks as if bmw retro fit has a version of the combox coming out for e.

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caglanaras
02-01-2011, 10:17 AM
this is a tempest in a teacup.

Yeah... When they start putting on a bunch of services like being able to command your car from your iPhone (remote start), add your contacts, have real maps as opposed to the clunky maps that BMW provides, it will be interesting how quickly the cars without the combox will be considered obsolete for anyone who does more than fast highway driving.

If the combox was available on a car on the lot and you were not told about it, BMW lied to you. If you made an expliciy choice to not buy it, that's your decision...

highyo
02-01-2011, 10:43 AM
Yeah... When they start putting on a bunch of services like being able to command your car from your iPhone (remote start), add your contacts, have real maps as opposed to the clunky maps that BMW provides, it will be interesting how quickly the cars without the combox will be considered obsolete for anyone who does more than fast highway driving.

If the combox was available on a car on the lot and you were not told about it, BMW lied to you. If you made an expliciy choice to not buy it, that's your decision...

it's not that cool! it would have NEVER been my yes/no decision. was i lied to? i didn't even know about it until i came on this board. who cares about album art?

the car is so much more than this. and it's unlikely that you can get retroed. move on.

anthony@empireleasing
02-01-2011, 11:14 AM
BMW doesn't seem to care...the guy i spoke to is a higher up he is a regional manager for them and was like too bad....its really strange...i thanked him for his time but mentioned to him it would not be the last time he heard from me. I am not sure what t do...as i was not aware of the changes...i mean they rolled out a brand new vehicle from every angle its new why would they do an upgrade after two months its just plain old bad business on their part.

anthony@empireleasing
02-01-2011, 11:21 AM
bmw retrofit is coming out with a combox for the f10 in the 500 to 600 range

Needsdecaf
02-01-2011, 11:22 AM
bmw retrofit is coming out with a combox for the f10 in the 500 to 600 range

Less cryptic please? As in BMW will retrofit a combox for you for $500? Parts only? :thumbup:

anthony@empireleasing
02-01-2011, 11:24 AM
The company bmwretrofit which produces aftermarket parts for bmws said in an email to me that
"Yes,
We will be getting Combox Media for F series in 4-5 weeks from now. Not sure about the price but I assume it will be same 500-600 range.

Thank you,
Alex

BMW Retrofit

Needsdecaf
02-01-2011, 11:28 AM
The company bmwretrofit which produces aftermarket parts for bmws said in an email to me that
"Yes,
We will be getting Combox Media for F series in 4-5 weeks from now. Not sure about the price but I assume it will be same 500-600 range.

Thank you,
Alex

BMW Retrofit

Ah, ok. Had not heard of them before. Good to know.

anthony@empireleasing
02-01-2011, 11:32 AM
Perhaps a weekend project for you????

Needsdecaf
02-01-2011, 12:08 PM
Perhaps a weekend project for you????

Easily. ;)

anthony@empireleasing
02-01-2011, 12:21 PM
From what i see they code it to your vin etc.. seems legit

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anthony@empireleasing
03-24-2011, 04:44 PM
Has anyone gotten anywhere with this issue??? I was sent packing by bmw but I noticed that bmw retro fit has a combox on the way for our cars...I wish bmw NA was able to do this as easily as someone after market...i would hate to screw up any of the wiring in my precious 5series...