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tim330i
01-14-2011, 02:44 PM
BMW is considering widening the types of cars it builds in the United States.This means that the Bavarian manufacturer might consider building new models such as the 3- and the 5-Series. These words came from a senior Bmw executive, quoting sales and marketing board member Ian Robertson. Robertson also said that there are no concrete plans for the moment, but he “not rule it out altogether”.

Currently, BMW makes the X3, X5 and X6 models in Spartanburg, South Carolina where its sole U.S. manufacturing facility is located. Apparently, BMW could take this decision due to the fact that its sales in the United States will likely surpass the company's volume in Germany for the first time in 2011.

Read the full story here - http://www.4wheelsnews.com/report-bmw-widening-the-types-of-cars-it-builds-in-the-united-states/

chrisk03
01-14-2011, 02:54 PM
Being a Honda/Acura guy most of my life, I guess it really never bothered me. Most of them are made in Ohio. However, nothing against SC, but if I'm going to buy an expensive German car, I'd kinda like it made in Germany. I would imagine though they will probably be making these 3/5 series cars for export. :dunno:

Hu99
01-14-2011, 04:40 PM
No, no, no, no. Please no!:thumbdwn:

BayAreaBimmer
01-14-2011, 04:57 PM
:cry:

AzNMpower32
01-14-2011, 05:23 PM
I think that US, potentially Canadian-market 3er and 5er cars should be made in the US. Since the US remains the largest market for these cars and there are limited drivetrain choices, it would be quite cost-effective. No doubt that most 3ers and 5ers with 6-cylinder petrol engines are destined for North America, that makes it easy to simplify equip the US factory for its own market. Aside from substantially lower transport and tariffs, wait times could be reduced for North American customers, and the prices wouldn't have to rise so quickly. VW realised this with the Jetta and now the NA-market Passat and are considering expanding their Chattanooga operations to possibly the Q5 and other Audi models.

It's a good business-case no doubt. And a lot of average American buyers don't know or really care about the final point of assembly........I mean, how many folks on the street know the X-series is manufactured in Spartanburg? And what's wrong with creating jobs and supporting one's own country?

Kamdog
01-14-2011, 05:26 PM
BMW is considering widening the types of cars it builds in the United States

Personally, I think the cars BMW builds are wide enough already.


If they decide to send some jobs over here, I am all for it, as long as they still make some of them in Germany, and keep the European Delivery thing going.

BMWenthusiast
01-14-2011, 10:45 PM
Personally, I think the cars BMW builds are wide enough already.


If they decide to send some jobs over here, I am all for it, as long as they still make some of them in Germany, and keep the European Delivery thing going.

Ditto. ED has to stay. I don't see them having enough volume in South Carolina to build them all here anyway, unless they do another major expansion. I'm sure you'll still have vehicles coming from Europe.

I don't mind having my BMW built in the US. I hold the workers in South Carolina to the same regard as those around the world, and as long as BMW keeps up with standards of production they should be fine, and it should help them with currency trading issues.

shipkiller
01-15-2011, 07:11 AM
No, no, no, no. Please no!:thumbdwn:

I respectfully request to know why you say no?

BayAreaBimmer
01-15-2011, 11:04 AM
I respectfully request to know why you say no?

Won't last as long

BayAreaBimmer
01-15-2011, 11:07 AM
I respectfully request to know why you say no?

And not as reliable

cneighbor
01-15-2011, 05:44 PM
Why do the BMW workers dress like oompa loompas?

cwsqbm
01-15-2011, 06:25 PM
If they decide to send some jobs over here, I am all for it, as long as they still make some of them in Germany, and keep the European Delivery thing going.

That sums it for me. ED is the only reason I'd buy a brand new BMW.

Those screaming about quality are totally full of it - Japanese cars built in the states don't have issues that Japanese built cars don't, German cars built in the states don't have issues that German built cars don't. The X3 and X5 are already being built here, and the previous Z3/Z4 were built here just as well as cars from Germany and South Africa.

Or to put it best, where is the HPFP for the N54 made? :) Answer: not in America.

Bremen Ben
01-15-2011, 08:56 PM
This would be a bad move if the UAW succeeds in unionizing the US plant. :(

AzNMpower32
01-15-2011, 09:33 PM
This would be a bad move if the UAW succeeds in unionizing the US plant. :(
That's extremely unlikely.

Hu99
01-15-2011, 10:13 PM
I respectfully request to know why you say no?

Poor workmanship, lack of commitment to the brand, no professionalism; shall I continue?

I knew a guy once who worked on the production line at Bowling Green, KY making Corvettes and he and his buddies thought it was funny to deliberately sabotage the wiring harnesses to see if the dealer could figure it out after production.
Do you want neanderthals like this making BMWs?

shipkiller
01-16-2011, 04:49 AM
That sums it for me. ED is the only reason I'd buy a brand new BMW.

Those screaming about quality are totally full of it - Japanese cars built in the states don't have issues that Japanese built cars don't, German cars built in the states don't have issues that German built cars don't. The X3 and X5 are already being built here, and the previous Z3/Z4 were built here just as well as cars from Germany and South Africa.

Or to put it best, where is the HPFP for the N54 made? :) Answer: not in America.


cwsqbm, what track is that in your sig? It looks like NCCAR, clockwise, turn one...

need4speed
01-16-2011, 06:57 AM
Poor workmanship, lack of commitment to the brand, no professionalism; shall I continue?

I knew a guy once who worked on the production line at Bowling Green, KY making Corvettes and he and his buddies thought it was funny to deliberately sabotage the wiring harnesses to see if the dealer could figure it out after production.
Do you want neanderthals like this making BMWs?

This goes back to keeping the UAW out of BMW's buisness. At BMW now they would be fired. At a UAW plant not even a slap on the wrist. N4S

BMWenthusiast
01-16-2011, 06:13 PM
Why do the BMW workers dress like oompa loompas?

http://www.autosnewspaper.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/bmw-workers-in-munich-held-hidden-tools-1.jpg

Well, you have something that covers over your clothes to make sure nothing gets tangled or in the way during building of the car.

Whenever I see documentaries on Ford or other brands on MSNBC I always notice how their workers are in t-shirts and jeans. I wouldn't want someone with say a screwdriver sticking out of their pocket working on a car with a chance to scratch or brush the paint or something worse. Additionally, from working at a gym I know that denim actually is abrasive to leather so I wouldn't want them sitting on my seats! (Even though I'll do it 1000 times but it's mine!)

cneighbor
01-17-2011, 06:51 AM
OK...thanks for the explanation. As long as they stay out of trouble in that outfit, I'm cool with it.

S93D
01-17-2011, 07:39 PM
As far as I know, BMW cars are made in the following countries:

Germany (former DDR/East Germany)
Germany (former West Germany)
Austria
USA
China (People's Republic)
Egypt
India
South Africa
Egypt
Thailand

I'd rather have a Thai or American made BMW than an East German BMW. My biased opinion is that American workmanship is better than Osti workmanship.

Hu99
01-17-2011, 08:31 PM
As far as I know, BMW cars are made in the following countries:

Germany (former DDR/East Germany)
Germany (former West Germany)
Austria
USA
China (People's Republic)
Egypt
India
South Africa
Egypt
Thailand

I'd rather have a Thai or American made BMW than an East German BMW. My biased opinion is that American workmanship is better than Osti workmanship.

I'd much rather know my BMW came from Leipzig (East Germany) than anywhere in he USA. As for Thailand, they're not known for building cars but more famous for underaged whores, which I'm not interested in. The Rossland, South Africa plant is generally accepted to be the one with the best record of quality.

Elias
01-18-2011, 05:47 AM
It makes perfect business sense to make the 3 and five series in the USA, it would save BMW lots of money. My beef is BMW isn't going to lower their price's once they switch over to the US plants so the winners are BMW and those who don't like waiting 3 months for their special ordered vehicle.

shipkiller
01-18-2011, 06:07 AM
It makes perfect business sense to make the 3 and five series in the USA, it would save BMW lots of money. My beef is BMW isn't going to lower their price's once they switch over to the US plants so the winners are BMW and those who don't like waiting 3 months for their special ordered vehicle.

It is naive to think that BMW will lower the prices on the cars. While it would be good for them to lower prices, the delta amount of cars that they MIGHT sell due to the difference in price would not override the amount of profit they will make selling cars with a higher profit margin....

AzNMpower32
01-18-2011, 07:10 AM
It makes perfect business sense to make the 3 and five series in the USA, it would save BMW lots of money. My beef is BMW isn't going to lower their price's once they switch over to the US plants so the winners are BMW and those who don't like waiting 3 months for their special ordered vehicle.
Now you know how the Germans feel about the X3 and X5. ***8364;52k for a X3 xDrive35i and it still doesn't come with moonroof or iDrive or xenons.

RBinDC
01-18-2011, 12:50 PM
I toured both the BMW plant in Munich and the one in Spartenberg SC. I didn't see much difference between them. What I found interesting was how little BMW pays its employees at the Spartenberg plant. I know it is located in the South where the cost of living is low but still, the wage rates border on slave labor (another Southern tradition).

Full time employees (referred to as "Associates") earn an average of about $28 per hour, while contract employees only earn about $15 per hour. About 20 percent of the work force are contract employees hoping to be upgraded to Associate status when someone leaves. The turnover is really low so I guess the workers are happy with this arrangement.

I cannot imagine BMW getting away that cheap with their German workers. I can understand why they would consider building more cars in the USA.

RBinDC
01-18-2011, 12:53 PM
Now you know how the Germans feel about the X3 and X5. €52k for a X3 xDrive35i and it still doesn't come with moonroof or iDrive or xenons.

the winners are also the US workers who are currently unemployed. There is also the "multiplier effect," whereby every job added at a BMW plant creates an addition 2 or 3 jobs in the service industries near the plant.

Patrick
01-18-2011, 12:54 PM
I'd much rather know my BMW came from Leipzig (East Germany) than anywhere in he USA. As for Thailand, they're not known for building cars but more famous for underaged whores, which I'm not interested in. The Rossland, South Africa plant is generally accepted to be the one with the best record of quality.

You really don't have a clue. :tsk:

RBinDC
01-18-2011, 12:55 PM
I'd much rather know my BMW came from Leipzig (East Germany) than anywhere in he USA. As for Thailand, they're not known for building cars but more famous for underaged whores, which I'm not interested in. The Rossland, South Africa plant is generally accepted to be the one with the best record of quality.

What do you have against youth?

Hu99
01-18-2011, 03:22 PM
You really don't have a clue. :tsk:

No, not really. I do try though.

S93D
01-18-2011, 04:03 PM
Toyota's Thai made Camrys are supposed to be well made.

The problem with East German BMW is just my opinion. I've met some East Germans who grew up as Communists and they flat out don't care about others. Workmanship in their line of work (not cars) is terrible and they just shrug their shoulders.

BMW doesn't make cars in Sweden and Swedes are different from Germans. However, I read that Volvo's plants have absentee rates as high as 20%. I can't imagine that Volvo workers all have brittle diabetes and asthma. Sounds like they are lazy. 2-4% absenteeism, I can see (that's one or two weeks a year).

sc_dan2002
01-18-2011, 04:31 PM
Most of my family lives in the Spartanburg SC area (though I do not at the moment).... I have spoken to multiple people that work at the BMW plant there.

The overall consensus that I have gathered from them... as they all speak in the same matter about their jobs.... is as follows:

1) Everyone I have spoken to loves their jobs.

2) Even without unions (all but one individual that I spoke to rejected the idea of a union) .. pay is above what these individuals would be making in that area.

3) All spoke about the overall strict attitude of the supervisors... in both quality of workmanship and in employee attitude and work ethic.

If an employee is late to work twice within a period of time (at this point a disagreement arose between the 2 that I were talking to in a bar at the time... if I had known this I would have asked the folks I had spoken to previously about it)... One person said that the period of time was 6 months... the other said a year.... anyway... two unexcuses tardinesses to work... employee is fired.





Moral of the story is.... Judging by the those simple strict standards that are expected of workers at that plant... I have no doubt that the same attitude is held towards standards of workmanship. Quality of workmanship from that plant would have no effect upon my decision to purchase a BMW at all.


But I will say this....... if UAW gets into that plant... I will not purchase a BMW made there. Matter of fact... if UAW gets into that plant I will more than likely no purchase ANY BMW made after that point in time (due to the possibility that parts from a UAW unionized plant were put into the car I was thinking about purchasing).

UAW gets into BMW... guess I'll be brand shopping again.

HoustonScott
01-18-2011, 05:16 PM
I would never buy a BMW made in America. That's one of the reasons I buy BMW, it's made in Germany. I want my German car to made in Germany by Germans, to me its a major reason to buy a German car. I wouldn't buy a MB made here either. Sorry.

HS

Hu99
01-18-2011, 09:46 PM
I would never buy a BMW made in America. That's one of the reasons I buy BMW, it's made in Germany. I want my German car to made in Germany by Germans, to me its a major reason to buy a German car. I wouldn't buy a MB made here either. Sorry.

HS

Don't be sorry, you're absolutely correct. What the hell do workers in Tuscaloosa, AL (Mercedes M-Class) know about precision engineering?

S93D
01-19-2011, 08:32 AM
A good car needs good design and good workmanship. Good intent from the assembly line is not enough if the design is poor. Sabotage can ruin a good design.

I think German design can be good but I don't think German workmanship is necessarily better.

Looking at past failures of things, less than robust design is often at fault, in my opinion. As far as housing, I've seen more things go wrong because of poor workmanship, like the way a door to a room was installed.

bmw325
01-19-2011, 08:50 AM
NOt this again. It's very rare for a modern car to have issues related to final assmbly. IF there is an issue, its most likely going to be something silly and easy to correct like the wrong badge or paddle shifters on a car w/ a manual trans. Most of the problematic issues are due to design defects or problems with components (think HPFP for example). ANd its been shown time and time again that there's no correlation between the country where final assembly occurs and quality. THe only exception might be on very high end makes such as Rolls Royce and Ferrari where this is still skilled craftwork done by artisans who have apprenticed for many years..it would be hard to just put a RR factory in the US for example without investing lots of time. Its not like oompa loompas are hand-sewing your BMW leather seats or matching the wood grain on your burl walnut trim.

Its about good training, good engineering, and the process used. Honda and Toyota have been able to achieve very high quality w/ their US made cars. ANd, the accelerator pedal issues that plagued Toyota were due to faulty engineering and occurred in cars made in Japan as well. I also don't understand why people still think of German cars as higher quality or that German workers have a better work ethic--these seem like outdated stereotypes. The days of the built to last 50 yeears Mercedes-Benz are long gone (as are the days of wild UAW workers pruposely sabotaging cars). How often do German brands end up on the bottom of multiple reliability and durability surveys? Pretty often. That being said, I do think that German brands have a more solid "feel", and some more attention to design details. But that odesn't make them have less problems or last longer. Anyway, I hope BMW does make the 3 and 5 in the US so that I can get a custom made car in 2 weeks and get more Americans off the unemplyment line.

BeamersMan88
01-19-2011, 12:04 PM
Yous guy un-American. That's not cool, USA BMW's means cheaper BMW's.

jatbeni
01-19-2011, 12:13 PM
All I care about is Euro Delivery... and with US manufacture, the question is - will there still be 3 and 5 series imports from Germany?

As long as the U.S. is not the ONLY place that BMW manufactures the 3 and 5 - and I think that is not likely - it should be possible to order Euro Delivery.

That being the case, I am all for U.S. manufacture. The plant in SC seemed first class...


P.S. - AFAIK, BMW only assembles CKD kits in India to a very limited degree. There is no manufacturing in India.

Hu99
01-19-2011, 12:20 PM
Yous guy un-American. That's not cool, USA BMW's means cheaper BMW's.

That's a very naive statement. Did the price of Toyotas or Hondas go down after they started assembly in the US and Canada?

mstrq
01-19-2011, 01:04 PM
Yous guy un-American. That's not cool, USA BMW's means cheaper BMW's.

X5 is built in America and it has class-leading price.

Squiddie
01-19-2011, 02:29 PM
Being a Honda/Acura guy most of my life, I guess it really never bothered me. Most of them are made in Ohio. However, nothing against SC, but if I'm going to buy an expensive German car, I'd kinda like it made in Germany. I would imagine though they will probably be making these 3/5 series cars for export. :dunno:

This.

I buy only guitars that are made in the US or Canada, with some old Japanese ones allowed. I buy my cars from Germany so it evens out.

I have seen people bash the US made models so far.

cwsqbm
01-19-2011, 09:55 PM
Don't be sorry, you're absolutely correct. What the hell do workers in Tuscaloosa, AL (Mercedes M-Class) know about precision engineering?

What do assembly line workers in Munich know about precision engineering? Do you think they eat magic pixie dust that makes for error free work? Good products come from good processes and proper management, not better drones. I've worked in assembly plants all over the world, from the U.S. to Mexico to Japan. The places that built better product were because those at the top demanded it (and were capable of motivating those below them), not because of a geographical local.

The problem with American automakers is partly design - no matter how well a Chevy Cobalt is built, it'd still feel like the same POS. The other problem is the UAW - its hard to motivate many union employees because they feel untouchable. I visited one plant where an assembly line machine of ours kept "breaking". Turned out that the operator kept punching the key pad, and the customer would rather pay us to replace the key pad than deal with the union to get rid of him.

cwsqbm, what track is that in your sig? It looks like NCCAR, clockwise, turn one...

Nope - turn 11 of the south track at Autobahn Country Club, Joliet, Illinois. Picture taken turning track touring while the local BMWCCA group was having a picnic.

Michael Schott
01-20-2011, 08:59 AM
Poor workmanship, lack of commitment to the brand, no professionalism; shall I continue?

I knew a guy once who worked on the production line at Bowling Green, KY making Corvettes and he and his buddies thought it was funny to deliberately sabotage the wiring harnesses to see if the dealer could figure it out after production.
Do you want neanderthals like this making BMWs?

US cars are more reliable than ever and ask Honda, Hyundai, Toyota, Nissan and others if the quality of the vehicles made in the US is bad. BMW and Mercedes as well. Stop living in the 1960's and get your head out of the sand.

Munich77
01-20-2011, 11:45 AM
It sure makes a lot of sense to move some of the manufacture to the key market. I doubt that consumers would be able to tell the difference. Regardless, aren't some E90 3 series and Mercedes Benz C-classes destined for the North American market built in South Africa. Of course the major downside, for those fortunate few that have been able to do it, would be no more European delivery.

Squiddie
01-20-2011, 02:48 PM
Personally I'd prefer that China and the US got their currencies back into whack or whatever you call the opposite of out of whack.

That's where a lot of mess comes from. For BMW it doesn't make sense to build where it's expensive and then sell to people who just lost 30% of their income (from their perspective). The other way is much better.

Micky07
01-23-2011, 08:02 AM
I just bought my car in Nov last year. And after I bought it I read a lot about ED program and decided the next BMW will be ED.

As long as they offer ED I am all for bringing new jobs to the states. The quality control will also need monitoring over the long run to assure this does not change.

And correct if I am wrong but the engines will still be produced in Germany, the assembly will be in the U.S.

Also the reduction in wait time will likely increase the number of folks opting for ordering their cars to spec rather then taking what's on the floor.

-Mick
Thanks

bigwen1
01-24-2011, 11:54 PM
I do not like it.

Michael Schott
01-25-2011, 06:52 AM
I do not like it.

Maybe you could tell us why you don't like it.