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Needsdecaf
01-17-2011, 10:49 AM
I just looked at an early build 535 today. It had the pull to the right issue. Anybody have this and not get it fixed? I ask the dealer to look into it with alignment and software and they are going to. But has anyone had this issue who was unable to get it rectified?

Thanks

blackhawk_pilot
01-17-2011, 02:00 PM
Just got my car back today after a 7 day stay at the shop. My problems seem to be gone and the car does not drift/pull in any direction anymore. I felt Avery minimal slight tendency to the right after letting go off the wheel for more than 7 or 10 seconds but by that time it was in my opinion road camber more than anything. So I'll keep on testing it but the input for correction seems minimal and normal now. I think that now I'll really get to enjoy this car after a month of ownership. I'm looking forward to taking Olivia on the road all week :)
BTW: Olivia is the car's name.

Needsdecaf
01-17-2011, 04:56 PM
Yeah, this was no 7-10 seconds. This was instant.

What did they do to fix it, the software upgrade?

blackhawk_pilot
01-17-2011, 11:34 PM
Well from what I can gather it was some sort of re programing on the car. I still have the tendency to keep putting inputs for correction since I have gotten so used to it. Although the car does drives better, Im hopping that my bad habit goes away with time.

Needsdecaf
01-18-2011, 05:28 AM
Well from what I can gather it was some sort of re programing on the car. I still have the tendency to keep putting inputs for correction since I have gotten so used to it. Although the car does drives better, Im hopping that my bad habit goes away with time.

Do you have a service invoice with a description? That would be great.

I found one back in the archives, but wasn't sure what it had in the way of codes, etc.

moe4ever
01-26-2011, 01:06 PM
I just picked up my car today for the same issue you have. They reprogrammed it to drive straigt or something like that, the service code is 3299000.

Needsdecaf
01-26-2011, 01:11 PM
I just picked up my car today for the same issue you have. They reprogrammed it to drive straigt or something like that, the service code is 3299000.

cool.

They ended up fixing mine before I took delivery so I never saw an invoice. They ended up applying two software fixes before it took. I was very worried I was going to have to pull out of the deal if they couldn't get it fixed.

One thing I noticed is that the car no longer pulls, but it definitely has a lack of self-centering dialed in. We have a lot of 2 and 3 lane roads here in VA and it will most definitely follow the crown worse than my previous car or my wife's car. Both right and left.

blackhawk_pilot
01-26-2011, 02:03 PM
cool.

They ended up fixing mine before I took delivery so I never saw an invoice. They ended up applying two software fixes before it took. I was very worried I was going to have to pull out of the deal if they couldn't get it fixed.

One thing I noticed is that the car no longer pulls, but it definitely has a lack of self-centering dialed in. We have a lot of 2 and 3 lane roads here in VA and it will most definitely follow the crown worse than my previous car or my wife's car. Both right and left.

What you described is exactly how my car behaves after the reprograming. Not pulling, yet not centering neither.
The following conclusions and observations are based on a deeper ongoing analises by myself and a friend with some knowledge insight.
I have come to train myself on new driving techniques so it won't bather me as much. Instead of just using minimum finger input to play and find the straight and narrow, I now steer steady for 3 or 5 seconds and the "computer" seems to recognize that and takes over locking the EPS on that position until another correction needs to be made. This computer take over is certainly noticeable above speeds of 30mph, once you have steadily held the steering for those 3-5 secs it will harden up on that direction and you can very gently give little turns to the wheel left to right. Ever so gently as to not actually input a correction, you will then notice a small play on the wheel (this is a sign that computer took over and locked EPS on last known fix or azimuth). Once your input for correction "breaks" the small on center play EPS control is released back to you until the computer has again detected a definite "straight" steady azimuth input... The process is constantly cycling.
It won't pull, but it will definitely follow road camber, be it left or right unless you feed it with (what from the drivers perspective) appears to be the straight and narrow and even then it'll eventually follow imperfections on the road.
EPS blinds the car mechanical steering instincts. These get replaced by computerized feedback based on driver, suspension, and environmental inputs to the system.

Needsdecaf
01-27-2011, 01:52 PM
What you described is exactly how my car behaves after the reprograming. Not pulling, yet not centering neither.
The following conclusions and observations are based on a deeper ongoing analises by myself and a friend with some knowledge insight.
I have come to train myself on new driving techniques so it won't bather me as much. Instead of just using minimum finger input to play and find the straight and narrow, I now steer steady for 3 or 5 seconds and the "computer" seems to recognize that and takes over locking the EPS on that position until another correction needs to be made. This computer take over is certainly noticeable above speeds of 30mph, once you have steadily held the steering for those 3-5 secs it will harden up on that direction and you can very gently give little turns to the wheel left to right. Ever so gently as to not actually input a correction, you will then notice a small play on the wheel (this is a sign that computer took over and locked EPS on last known fix or azimuth). Once your input for correction "breaks" the small on center play EPS control is released back to you until the computer has again detected a definite "straight" steady azimuth input... The process is constantly cycling.
It won't pull, but it will definitely follow road camber, be it left or right unless you feed it with (what from the drivers perspective) appears to be the straight and narrow and even then it'll eventually follow imperfections on the road.
EPS blinds the car mechanical steering instincts. These get replaced by computerized feedback based on driver, suspension, and environmental inputs to the system.

The next time I am on a road with some decent straights, I will check for any behavior from the EPS. To be perfectly honest, I think you're overthinking this a bit! :p That's natural once you've experienced the dread of the pull to the right problem, but I have to say that my wife's Acura behaves much the same way and it has conventional hydraulic steering. I think it may be more of a factor of the alignment specs, probably a little less toe in than a normal car to promote good handling at the expense of some self centering.

Then again, I never would have guessed the EPS could be responsible for such a violent yaw to the right move as I evidenced so I guess it's possible!

markl53
01-27-2011, 02:05 PM
What you described is exactly how my car behaves after the reprograming. Not pulling, yet not centering neither.
The following conclusions and observations are based on a deeper ongoing analises by myself and a friend with some knowledge insight.
I have come to train myself on new driving techniques so it won't bather me as much. Instead of just using minimum finger input to play and find the straight and narrow, I now steer steady for 3 or 5 seconds and the "computer" seems to recognize that and takes over locking the EPS on that position until another correction needs to be made. This computer take over is certainly noticeable above speeds of 30mph, once you have steadily held the steering for those 3-5 secs it will harden up on that direction and you can very gently give little turns to the wheel left to right. Ever so gently as to not actually input a correction, you will then notice a small play on the wheel (this is a sign that computer took over and locked EPS on last known fix or azimuth). Once your input for correction "breaks" the small on center play EPS control is released back to you until the computer has again detected a definite "straight" steady azimuth input... The process is constantly cycling.
It won't pull, but it will definitely follow road camber, be it left or right unless you feed it with (what from the drivers perspective) appears to be the straight and narrow and even then it'll eventually follow imperfections on the road.
EPS blinds the car mechanical steering instincts. These get replaced by computerized feedback based on driver, suspension, and environmental inputs to the system.

Huh? I just drive my F10 535i. Never noticed anything weird about the steering, other than it is easier to turn than my previous ones at low speed. There's no "lock on, lock off" for me -- it's just smooth steering. I don't recall my '05 330i or '08 335i having such a strong pull back to center that people are describing. My 535i doesn't feel all that different except for the forementioned easier turning.

blackhawk_pilot
01-27-2011, 03:43 PM
I don't recall my '05 330i or '08 335i having such a strong pull back to center that people are describing. My 535i doesn't feel all that different except for the forementioned easier turning.

Sounds like you may be on denial about the lack of on centre nature on the car. Nothing wrong with that as long as you enjoy it as is. I guess I'm used to a more "ride on rail" feel, and this now, well takes some getting used to.

lawbuz
02-05-2011, 05:22 PM
I have been tracking this issue for a couple of months now.

I have already had 3 service appts to address the steering to the right issue and it has not been remedied. The service consisted of adjusting tiring pressure, manipulating the struts and thirdly a steering programming update. This seems to be the usual course of remedies.

Question -- Has anyone seen service depts employ other tools to address this?

Question -- Has anyone begun proceedings under thier state's lemon law provisions and how successful have things been?

Thank you in advance.

tdepetra
02-05-2011, 05:39 PM
I have been tracking this issue for a couple of months now.

I have already had 3 service appts to address the steering to the right issue and it has not been remedied. The service consisted of adjusting tiring pressure, manipulating the struts and thirdly a steering programming update. This seems to be the usual course of remedies.

Question -- Has anyone seen service depts employ other tools to address this?

Question -- Has anyone begun proceedings under thier state's lemon law provisions and how successful have things been?

Thank you in advance.

Struts? E60s had struts. The F10 -- like the 7 series -- don't have struts.

lawbuz
02-05-2011, 05:48 PM
Struts? E60s had struts. The F10 -- like the 7 series -- don't have struts.

Sorry, it sounded like it was struts, but I'll check the paperwork.

I'm not a mechanic but I am a lawyer.

On that note, enough is enough. If other owners in the mid-atlantic area would like to inquire lemon law remedies, let's discuss off-line and share notes and strategy. I'm not soliciting business -- just some support and coordination as I think it would this will be a long and involved process.

Needsdecaf
02-05-2011, 05:54 PM
as I think it would this will be a long and involved process.

From what I have seen, BMW has been pretty reasonable to deal with in terms of buybacks.