PDA

View Full Version : BMW watching governments for green-technology direction - The end of FUN cars?


tim330i
01-19-2011, 12:09 PM
This is horrible news to enthusiast the world over -

He (Ian Robertson - BMW Group's board member) said that governments are likelier to “force automakers' technological hands than consumer desires.”

Great so don't worry what consumers want to buy, just build what the government thinks consumers should drive. Kiss your personal right to drive your 10mpg performance cars good by At the rate governments (France comes to mind) are meddling with what car we can drive and what car companies can produce we're soon to be all driving beige Priuses equivalents while being forced to sing kumbaya.

The mention of the BMW brand may evoke its image of being a maker of high-performance luxury vehicles but it is now slowly moving to a greener future. At the 2011 Automotive News World Congress, Ian Robertson, BMW Group's board member for marketing, said that BMW is looking at “sustainability as a key theme,” whether it is front-drive small cars, electric vehicles or diesels. He said that governments are likelier to “force automakers' technological hands than consumer desires.” Robertson predicts that electric vehicles will soon make up 5 to 7% of the global vehicle mix.

Source - http://www.4wheelsnews.com/bmw-watching-governments-for-green-technology-direction-says-ian-robertson/

Hu99
01-19-2011, 12:17 PM
It's only going to get worse. There are far more anti-car pseudo-hippies than car enthusiasts. If they had their way we'd all be taking the bus or riding a bicycle.

ProRail
01-19-2011, 08:30 PM
European drivers love to drive and have lots of fun doing so. However, they manage to do it while averaging MUCH higher MPGs than American drivers. Frankly. I think driving a 318 (or a 316) is a heckuva lot more fun than driving a 550. Some of us may have to rethink our approach to what is a fun way to drive. You don't have to drive like you're on the track ALL THE TIME to have a satisfying driving experience..

allwheelsdriven
01-19-2011, 08:42 PM
I'd be happy if Americans could let go of the opinion that big car/SUV = status

cwsqbm
01-19-2011, 09:32 PM
European drivers love to drive and have lots of fun doing so. However, they manage to do it while averaging MUCH higher MPGs than American drivers. Frankly. I think driving a 318 (or a 316) is a heckuva lot more fun than driving a 550. Some of us may have to rethink our approach to what is a fun way to drive. You don't have to drive like you're on the track ALL THE TIME to have a satisfying driving experience..

Even with a high horsepower car, you spend 95% of the time on the street using less than 50 hp. For a commuter car, people would be just fine in 100hp 2500 lb car, but instead feel they NEED (my least favorite word for so many reasons) a 300+hp 4000+lb hulk to haul their kid to soccer practice.

If BMW sold one in the states, I'd have either a 120d or 320d in my garage. The 123d would be nice too, but I don't need it. But instead, because of our country's ridiculous certification laws, its too expensive to produce a large range of models so the car makers have to make what they think will sell to the majority and try and convince everyone that's what they need.

The government will never realize that are the problem, not the solution.

TerraPhantm
01-19-2011, 09:42 PM
Even with a high horsepower car, you spend 95% of the time on the street using less than 50 hp. For a commuter car, people would be just fine in 100hp 2500 lb car, but instead feel they NEED (my least favorite word for so many reasons) a 300+hp 4000+lb hulk to haul their kid to soccer practice.

If BMW sold one in the states, I'd have either a 120d or 320d in my garage. The 123d would be nice too, but I don't need it. But instead, because of our country's ridiculous certification laws, its too expensive to produce a large range of models so the car makers have to make what they think will sell to the majority and try and convince everyone that's what they need.

The government will never realize that are the problem, not the solution.

Probably true, but for the 5% of time where the excess power is helpful, I'm sure glad to have it. Even disregarding emergency maneuvers, some of the highway merges out here are just terrible and practically require fast acceleration. A 0-60 in <5s may be a little excessive for that purpose, but I like having knowing that if I need to, I can accelerate like a bat out of hell.

With that said, a 123d would be an ideal commuter for me (and then I'd probably replace the M3 w/ something like an M-roadster for the weekends). I don't think I could do a 118 or 120, and I don't see why I should w/ the phenomenal efficiency the 123 pulls off.

timfitz63
01-20-2011, 06:04 AM
This is horrible news to enthusiast the world over -



Great so don't worry what consumers want to buy, just build what the government thinks consumers should drive. Kiss your personal right to drive your 10mpg performance cars good by At the rate governments (France comes to mind) are meddling with what car we can drive and what car companies can produce we're soon to be all driving beige Priuses equivalents while being forced to sing kumbaya.



Source - http://www.4wheelsnews.com/bmw-watching-governments-for-green-technology-direction-says-ian-robertson/

Great... Just great... These idiot bureaucrats who think they know better than the consumer market, backed by their tree-hugging mafia, won't be happy until we're all riding in horse-drawn buggies... (Oh, wait! Will that upset the animal rights contingent...? Forcing a horse to labor on our behalf...?) :tsk:

Fail! :thumbdwn:

HoustonScott
01-20-2011, 06:08 AM
It's not idiot bureaucrats it's Democrats. If you voted for someone with a (d) behind their name you asked for it....

HS

Polarlys
01-20-2011, 08:16 AM
For anyone that has driven a modern diesel powered car or truck you will remember that they are not slouches anymore. Diesels had a old reputation for being SLOW, Smokey and Smelly. Or in modern mathematical terms S cubed. Modern diesels are nothing like that. I had a late 80's Mercedes diesel sedan that would put you in the back seat after a momentary turbo lag. It was a rocket and they are much, much better now. Even that car got almost 30mpg. And it was the biggest and heaviest they made. I now have a Dodge diesel pickup and often see 21+ mpg. And I can rocket up 3000m mountains passing all the gassers while towing my 7000 lb trailer. The Mercedes would easily get up over 100 mph. That's plenty for me and there was more. I read very good things about the BMW diesels too. I hope they expand there product line here in the US. I would certainly look at them. I just recently got a 2010 528i xdrive. If I had stumbled across a diesel I would have jumped on it. They're out there. Conventional technoligy, tuned well, efficient and plenty speedy for those of us that want to pounce on the pedel now and then. :thumbup:

Roger in NJ

Michael Schott
01-20-2011, 08:52 AM
It's not idiot bureaucrats it's Democrats. If you voted for someone with a (d) behind their name you asked for it....

HS

Moronic statement. Lets not worry about the environment or our finite natural resources. We can go back to the 1950's when unregulated companies ran wild and destroyed our rivers and lakes. Lets set lake Erie on fire again. there is still a brownfield right on the Detroit River in Detroit where there used to be a Uniroyal plant. The cost to clean up the land is staggeringly high. This is not a party issue, this crosses party lines. Don't make this political.

Michael Schott
01-20-2011, 08:56 AM
We thought the same thing back in the 1970's during the oil crises and when emission standards were introduced. Cars initially lost a lot of power but soon became faster than ever. Today is the golden age of performance cars. All this with outstanding fuel economy vs the muscle cars of the 1960's which weren't even as fast as a 335i that gets 30 mpg on the highway.

Technology is the key and I have little doubt that there will still be plenty of high performance cars in the future.

Andrew*Debbie
01-20-2011, 09:20 AM
This is horrible news to enthusiast the world over -



Great so don't worry what consumers want to buy, just build what the government thinks consumers should drive. Kiss your personal right to drive your 10mpg performance cars good by At the rate governments (France comes to mind) are meddling with what car we can drive and what car companies can produce we're soon to be all driving beige Priuses equivalents while being forced to sing kumbaya.



Don't worry so much. The UK has far more interference than the US and you can still get a 10mpg supercar.

There are some carrots and sticks but they aren't putting an end Ferraris and Aston Martins.

Road tax is based on CO2 emissions. We pay £90/year for the MINI and £150 for the Van. A 335i is £235/year. 10mpg Supercars are going to pay £450.


Electric cars get a £5000 subsidy.


Fuel is around $8.00 / gallon. If you can afford a £150,000 car you can afford the fuel and taxes for it. I'd say the same for a 335i too.


Tesla proved that electric cars with decent performance are possible. There will be more cars like the 123d. Don't worry. Its going to turn out ok.

cruise_bone
01-20-2011, 12:28 PM
European drivers love to drive and have lots of fun doing so. However, they manage to do it while averaging MUCH higher MPGs than American drivers. Frankly. I think driving a 318 (or a 316) is a heckuva lot more fun than driving a 550. Some of us may have to rethink our approach to what is a fun way to drive. You don't have to drive like you're on the track ALL THE TIME to have a satisfying driving experience..

+1 :thumbup:

My decision came down to the 328 v M3. I chose the 328 because I could push it a lot easier then I could an M3.
I like to take turns quickly. There is a couple great exits here in town. Two in particular are 180 and 270 degrees respectively. The 180 is a lot tighter and I can only take it at about 45 or so. The 270 is a big exit and I take it at about 60-65 in my little 328, assuming no other cars are on the exit. In an M3, going 60 around that big exit would feel like 40, so to feel the same excitement I would have to push it probably to about 80 or so, which makes no sense. All I would be asking for with an M3 is tickets from LE. Granted, the 0-60 or opportunities to beating someone off the line aren't as great as they would be with an M3, but this is not why I bought my BMW. I got mine for feel and handling more so than for raw speed. If I wanted that I would have gotten a Porsche. My 328 is loads of fun and everyone else who drives it thinks the same thing. The manual tranny helps too! :thumbup:

Oh, and I want a 320d damn!t!!!!! Or better yet, how about a new model, say a 323d?

Andrew*Debbie
01-21-2011, 01:01 AM
Oh, and I want a 320d damn!t!!!!! Or better yet, how about a new model, say a 323d?


Dunno why BMW isn't bringing the 320d ED to the US market.

UK market gets a 316d, 318d, 320d ED, 320d, 325d, 330d, and 335d. 116, 143, 163, 184, 204, 245 and 286 HP.

The 325d is powered by a 204HP inline-6. 0-62 in 7.0 seconds. That's a few tenths slower than a 328i. The 325d has much higher torque (317 vs. 200). On your typical dealer test-drive the diesel is going to feel faster.


http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/models/320d-ED/0,,1156___sit-bmwuk,00.html?requestSource=topnav



If there was a hybrid with the same performance as my car, I would buy it, but screw Priuses.


Somehow Toyota marketing has convinced the world that Prius IS the only Hybrid. I don't know how Toyota pulled it off.
>>Mein auto: 2011 BMW 750Li xDrive

Have you looked at an X6 active hybrid or ActiveHybrid 750i?

Munich77
01-21-2011, 07:17 AM
Obviously something has to be done to reduce oil consumption as oil is getting more expensive. But government action never really works. I love the 10% ethanol in gas here in the US - I think it does more harm than good. As for hybrids, while I think the technology does provide ways to increase fuel economy I have not seen many studies for the true environmental impact of a hybrid. Although I do remember TopGear making fun of the Prius saying that the total environmental impact is the same as that of a Land Rover.

timfitz63
01-21-2011, 09:13 AM
... Somehow Toyota marketing has convinced the world that Prius IS the only Hybrid. I don't know how Toyota pulled it off...

Probably the same way Microsoft convinced everyone 25 years ago that Windows was the "only" computer operating system...

... Although I do remember TopGear making fun of the Prius saying that the total environmental impact is the same as that of a Land Rover.

That wouldn't surprise me a bit. The Prius (or "Pious," as I call them) is little more than a basic economy vehicle that so-called "environmentally conscious" drivers use to justify their sanctimonious attitude toward all other forms of motorized transportation...

If someone wants to drive a "Pious," they can have one; I'm not trying to deny them. If Toyota can sell them by the truckload, more power to them. I just don't want to hear grief of any kind from "Pious" drivers because I prefer to drive an X3 -- or have bureaucrats artificially drive consumer markets because they decided for me that I should drive something different...