PDA

View Full Version : Bad News For A Few Of Us


listerone
01-20-2011, 07:41 PM
Well,it's bad news for *me* at least.Attended the North American Auto Show in Detroit today and learned from the rep at the BMW exhibit that it is,in fact,likely that an F10 diesel will be arriving in the US later this year but his understanding is that it'll be powered by a 4 cylinder engine.Having fallen in love with the combination of pin-you-back-in-your seat torque with 42 mpg on the highway I was looking forward to that same engine being coupled with the new 8 speed transmission.Granted,the setup he's suggesting just might give amazing real world mileage I'd sacrifice some of that mileage for the power.

Well,we'll just have to wait and see I guess.

Rafa
01-20-2011, 07:44 PM
I'm still a fan of gas. I guess I need to drive one of the newer diesels to convince myself otherwise.

myBMW535
01-20-2011, 07:59 PM
I have driven a 520d manual in Germany (rental from Sixt). It is not slow at all. I was able to get up to 140 mph and could have kept going! Pick up is adequate too. So if we get this package in US, this would be awesome. I am not sure about 520d auto, though. It could be slow.

eyesight1
01-20-2011, 08:03 PM
I'm still a fan of gas. I guess I need to drive one of the newer diesels to convince myself otherwise.

Ditto

Rafa
01-20-2011, 08:07 PM
I have driven a 520d manual in Germany (rental from Sixt). It is not slow at all. I was able to get up to 140 mph and could have kept going! Pick up is adequate too. So if we get this package in US, this would be awesome. I am not sure about 520d auto, though. It could be slow.

Oh, I do not think diesels are necessarily slow, and I know the torque is nothing short of spectacular. It is the engine noise that I do not particularly care for. Even my TT V8 does not sound as silky as I would want (from outside the cabin). Must be the HPFP that makes the noise...

listerone
01-20-2011, 08:26 PM
I'm still a fan of gas. I guess I need to drive one of the newer diesels to convince myself otherwise.

I assure that once you try it you'll never go back.It's true,as you suggested in your second post,that diesels sound anything but silky but you're also correct to state that the torque is amazing.

Unlike many here,the sounds that an engine emits mean nothing to me....it's the *performance* that's important.Perhaps only we diesel owners can fully understand.

Rafa
01-20-2011, 08:37 PM
I assure that once you try it you'll never go back.It's true,as you suggested in your second post,that diesels sound anything but silky but you're also correct to state that the torque is amazing.

Unlike many here,the sounds that an engine emits mean nothing to me....it's the *performance* that's important.Perhaps only we diesel owners can fully understand.

I'm open minded: you bet I'll test drive the diesel F10 when it comes to the US. I'm so looking forward to feeling that torque that I wish the F10d was here already.

SANguru
01-20-2011, 08:45 PM
my wife and I love our X5 35d. Extremely torquey and great around town. Top that off with good gas mileage and it's a winning combo.

dunderhi
01-20-2011, 09:06 PM
Now I don't feel so bad about giving up on my wait for the 535d. :rolleyes:

listerone
01-20-2011, 09:11 PM
Now I don't feel so bad about giving up on my wait for the 535d. :rolleyes:

I *love* my "d" and have from the very beginning.I'll never go back to gas engines.But I have two issues with it,however.1) it's to small....2) I want something more luxurious.

fkim011
01-20-2011, 09:46 PM
I think people forget the fact that diesel engines practically last forever without much maintenance. The cummins motors I have in my semi's aren't fully broken till 250,000 miles.

Needsdecaf
01-21-2011, 06:20 AM
From BMW UK:

520d

Power: 184 HP
Torque: 280 lb-ft
Top speed: 141
0-60: 8.1
50-75 MPH in 4th: 4.9 sec

Consumption:
Urban: 44.1
Extra Urban: 62.8
Combined: 54.3

My guess on EPA city / highway / combined: 40 / 50 / 45 ????

My guess on range using 16 gallons of 18.5 gallon tank: 720


Not freaking bad. Since there are so many choices for the 5 series powerplant, and since the 535 already is rated at 20/30 and the 528 at 22/32, it makes sense to bring over this powerplant for this vehicle. Not sure how the 4 pot sounds, but having driven the X5 35d, I have to say I was VERY pleasantly surprised at how it sounded. As for how it drove, my comment to my wife after driving was: "why would anyone buy the petrol engine in this thing".

Munich77
01-21-2011, 08:09 AM
From BMW UK:

520d

Power: 184 HP
Torque: 280 lb-ft
Top speed: 141
0-60: 8.1
50-75 MPH in 4th: 4.9 sec

Consumption:
Urban: 44.1
Extra Urban: 62.8
Combined: 54.3

My guess on EPA city / highway / combined: 40 / 50 / 45 ????

My guess on range using 16 gallons of 18.5 gallon tank: 720


Not freaking bad. Since there are so many choices for the 5 series powerplant, and since the 535 already is rated at 20/30 and the 528 at 22/32, it makes sense to bring over this powerplant for this vehicle. Not sure how the 4 pot sounds, but having driven the X5 35d, I have to say I was VERY pleasantly surprised at how it sounded. As for how it drove, my comment to my wife after driving was: "why would anyone buy the petrol engine in this thing".

Not bad at all... didn't some british car magazine did a comparison - 520d to Toyota Prius and the diesel got better mileage? The 2.0 diesel is probably BMW's way of playing the nubmer for the new CAFE regulations. BMW needs to introduce more fuel efficient models with the powerful V8s that it offers.

SteVTEC
01-21-2011, 08:26 AM
I'm certainly NO FAN of the turbo-4-petrol that's coming, but I actually wouldn't mind a 520d option.

Rafa
01-21-2011, 08:42 AM
I *love* my "d" and have from the very beginning.I'll never go back to gas engines.But I have two issues with it,however.1) it's to small....2) I want something more luxurious.

Agree. The engine in the 520d is too small.

Needsdecaf
01-21-2011, 08:58 AM
Agree. The engine in the 520d is too small.

Too small in what way? It offers some 50 more ft-lbs of torque than the 528. Granted, it lacks the HP, but I would be willing to bet the 520d would not seem slow at all.

xDrive Canuck
01-21-2011, 12:38 PM
I don't know about a 520d I would have to drive it but I have driven the 335d and if they came out with a 535d M Sport (maybe xDrive) I would seriously consider it. The mileage plus probable increase in reliabilty might be worth making the switch from my F10 535.

dexter
01-21-2011, 01:33 PM
Wow, I hope this is true....I'd buy this car in a second!

raleedy
01-21-2011, 02:15 PM
I'm certainly NO FAN of the turbo-4-petrol that's coming, but I actually wouldn't mind a 520d option.

+1 (or maybe +4)

Elias
01-21-2011, 02:26 PM
Why doesn't BMW just put the T4D in the 1and 3 series and put the 35D in the 5 and 7 series to me that makes a lot more sense, especially when you factor in the price difference.

raleedy
01-21-2011, 04:24 PM
Why doesn't BMW just put the T4D in the 1and 3 series and put the 35D in the 5 and 7 series to me that makes a lot more sense, especially when you factor in the price difference.

Doing something in this area that makes sense would be unusual for BMW. They put an overpowered, inefficient diesel with poor mileage numbers and no possible MT in the 3, make ruinously expensive and inefficient 6 and 7 mild hybrids, and then take their most efficient 5, the 528i, and replace its engine -- the best, smoothest and most enjoyable engine in the industry with a sewing machine. I don't think there's any hope.

adstein
01-21-2011, 04:45 PM
I am waiting for an F10 diesel and the 4 cylinder would be great. The mpg and the handling are primary for me. The torque is plenty adequate for my driving.:)

Slaymaster
01-21-2011, 05:15 PM
From BMW UK:

520d

Power: 184 HP
Torque: 280 lb-ft
Top speed: 141
0-60: 8.1
50-75 MPH in 4th: 4.9 sec

Consumption:
Urban: 44.1
Extra Urban: 62.8
Combined: 54.3

My guess on EPA city / highway / combined: 40 / 50 / 45 ????

My guess on range using 16 gallons of 18.5 gallon tank: 720


Not freaking bad. Since there are so many choices for the 5 series powerplant, and since the 535 already is rated at 20/30 and the 528 at 22/32, it makes sense to bring over this powerplant for this vehicle. Not sure how the 4 pot sounds, but having driven the X5 35d, I have to say I was VERY pleasantly surprised at how it sounded. As for how it drove, my comment to my wife after driving was: "why would anyone buy the petrol engine in this thing".

If BMW produces a diesel 5 producing 50 more pounds of torque then my 528 and a 0-60 in less then 6.75, I think they would sell very well IMO. I think the price for the engine shouldn't exceed $2000. If this came true and the car was rated at 40 highway/ 30 city, I think I might grab one.

Titanflux
01-21-2011, 05:49 PM
I am not sure about 520d auto, though. It could be slow.

Here in the UK the Auto 8 speed on the 520d is just one tenth of a second slower 0-62mph then the MT. Not even noticeable. In fact the amazing 8-speed auto gearbox makes it seem more rapid in reality.

Edited: actually 0-62 is exactly the same

I love the 520d. the torque makes it seem much better powered than the 184hp it has. Torque is under-rated a lot of the time, and it's not all about bhp.

Hey, it's about time you US guys started to embrace the low CO2 and fuel consumption world of high fuel costs and company car taxes in the UK / EU! That's why 80+% of F10 sales here are 520d models. Our fuel costs are the equivelent of $US 8.00 per US gallon at the moment.

nealh
01-24-2011, 10:37 AM
hmmm..LMK get this straight they will use a 520d but keep 335d in the US. are they nuts, this will fail big time. the 5 series buyer is not going to go for a smaller diesel than in the 3 series.

Slaymaster
01-24-2011, 02:28 PM
hmmm..LMK get this straight they will use a 520d but keep 335d in the US. are they nuts, this will fail big time. the 5 series buyer is not going to go for a smaller diesel than in the 3 series.


If the diesel will offer compariable performance to the current 528 it will sell. I wouldn't mind hitting 40-45 MPG highway. Better then the 32MPG highway the 528 is currently rated. I drive 30k plus miles a year and I would jump all over it. BMW should also offer the engine in the 328 rather then just the 3.0 turbo diesel. I think the diesel concept would sell better if it was offered in a less expensive smaller engine.

raleedy
01-24-2011, 05:32 PM
Well, the gasoline turbo 4 is a reality for the F10; the 520d in the US is pure speculation.

DnA Diesel
03-21-2011, 01:27 PM
Doing something in this area that makes sense would be unusual for BMW. They put an overpowered, inefficient diesel with poor mileage numbers and no possible MT in the 3, make ruinously expensive and inefficient 6 and 7 mild hybrids, and then take their most efficient 5, the 528i, and replace its engine -- the best, smoothest and most enjoyable engine in the industry with a sewing machine. I don't think there's any hope.

???

"Overpowered" as in 35hp less than the 335i?

"inefficient"? 40+ mpg on the highway is 'poor mileage'.

I think there are some valid points in what you're trying to say hiding in your post somewhere, but there are also some logic flaws.

BMW deliberately brought the 335d over to break past misconceptions about diesel performance, noise, smoke, reliability, etc..

Having achieved that, I would see them transition the F30 to a 320d, since I heard recently that the diesels will be realigned within the 3 and 5 lineup to put the T4D into the 3 and the N57 into the 535d. That make's more sense in the North American market.

That said, if the F10 comes over with a T4D, I will likely keep my 335d and get an X5d to fill out the stable.

Regards
D.

Kamdog
03-21-2011, 01:44 PM
Too small in what way? It offers some 50 more ft-lbs of torque than the 528. Granted, it lacks the HP, but I would be willing to bet the 520d would not seem slow at all.

Keep in mind the actual definition of horsepower:

HP = Torque * RPM/5252

So, the real limitation on HP for a diesel engine is the RPM (it certainly ain't the torque :D)

So, to say that the HP of a diesel is low, is really to say that the max RPM of a diesel is really low, which it is. But, with the newer, multi-speed transmissions out there, having 8 speeds really allows the RPMs to drop, and keep the diesel in the sweet spot of high torque at high speed.

mecodoug
03-21-2011, 08:55 PM
I love my 335d, but it does have way more performance than I can use on the streets here in the USA. Driving at an indicated 80 running at a hair under 2000 rpm, you can't believe how fast it can accelerate without even leaving 6th gear.

A 320d or maybe a 324d would be the perfect balance for me, at least in a 3er. For an F10 though I think the 35d would probably sell better in the USA compared with the 20d.

Sophisto
03-22-2011, 12:44 AM
I love my 335d, but it does have way more performance than I can use on the streets here in the USA. Driving at an indicated 80 running at a hair under 2000 rpm, you can't believe how fast it can accelerate without even leaving 6th gear. d.

With the ZF sport auto and the 530D my figures are just over 150 km/hr @ 2000 rpm.
The ZF in the 530D has another overdrive ratio than the lesser torque cars I think.
The car has fabulous elasticity.
On auto, manual or sport setting, the car is very easily driven fast by the turbolag free delivered torque.

I am very pleased with it. :thumbup:

I used to have a 528i E39.
That was a nice car too.
Since that was sold seven years ago making a comparison is not very easy.
The E60 525D I drove in between was just a bit suffering from turbolag and therefor in the begining of driving that car I sometimes missed the 528i.
Now driving the F11 those times are long gone and forgotten.
The new car drives much better than the E60 did.
Also giving around 10% better mileage.

EvolutionTheory
03-22-2011, 10:35 PM
I'd be interested in a 535d xdrive, but not a 520.

carracho
03-23-2011, 01:39 AM
Here in Europe we always are wondering why it is so difficult to introduce the Diesels in the U.S.

I used to be buying gas engines, however then I bought an E61 535d and was just amazed by the torque and speed.

I have now a 525d F11, and you almost don't hear the engine, far away from any diesel sound. This is an amazing piece of car, working very well with the 8 gear auto.

The six cylinder Diesel engines are powerful and quiet, and have no diesel sound. The 520d is a bit more noisy, but not much.

Drive them - you will like them

nealh
03-23-2011, 04:12 AM
I would love a 535d as well. I wish they would sell it the us already. A 4cyl in the 5 series would not do well IMHO in the US.

raleedy
03-23-2011, 08:26 AM
???

"Overpowered" as in 35hp less than the 335i?

"inefficient"? 40+ mpg on the highway is 'poor mileage'.

I think there are some valid points in what you're trying to say hiding in your post somewhere, but there are also some logic flaws.

BMW deliberately brought the 335d over to break past misconceptions about diesel performance, noise, smoke, reliability, etc..

Having achieved that, I would see them transition the F30 to a 320d, since I heard recently that the diesels will be realigned within the 3 and 5 lineup to put the T4D into the 3 and the N57 into the 535d. That make's more sense in the North American market.

That said, if the F10 comes over with a T4D, I will likely keep my 335d and get an X5d to fill out the stable.

Regards
D.

The 335d costs too much. It has too much torque to accept a clutch and manual gearbox. Relative to other diesels in BMW's lineup its fuel economy is poor. And reliability hasn't been great. BMWNA is ignoring the market segment that addresses the main advantages diesel offers: economy, reliability and durability.

Munich77
03-23-2011, 08:36 AM
Here in Europe we always are wondering why it is so difficult to introduce the Diesels in the U.S.

I used to be buying gas engines, however then I bought an E61 535d and was just amazed by the torque and speed.

I have now a 525d F11, and you almost don't hear the engine, far away from any diesel sound. This is an amazing piece of car, working very well with the 8 gear auto.

The six cylinder Diesel engines are powerful and quiet, and have no diesel sound. The 520d is a bit more noisy, but not much.

Drive them - you will like them

I thin there are several reasons. First of all, in the early 1980s when the manufacturers tried pushing diesels a lot of them were aweful. GM convered a 350V8 diesel and it was a complete nightmare. Since the U.S. car buyer is not taxed on engine displacement most people are used to having larger engines. Plus a lot of people still remember those 400 cubic inch plus cars. Depending on where you are in the U.S., diesel is actually more expensive than even premium. Also, not every gas station carries diesel. I think all of the above and the fact that diesel engines demand a price premium has made it hard to sell diesels here. Personally, I would love to get an F10 535d x-drive.

Needsdecaf
03-23-2011, 08:54 AM
I thin there are several reasons. First of all, in the early 1980s when the manufacturers tried pushing diesels a lot of them were aweful. GM convered a 350V8 diesel and it was a complete nightmare. Since the U.S. car buyer is not taxed on engine displacement most people are used to having larger engines. Plus a lot of people still remember those 400 cubic inch plus cars. Depending on where you are in the U.S., diesel is actually more expensive than even premium. Also, not every gas station carries diesel. I think all of the above and the fact that diesel engines demand a price premium has made it hard to sell diesels here. Personally, I would love to get an F10 535d x-drive.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I think BMW was smart with the "Changes" ad from the Super Bowl featuring the 335d.

Also, American Refineries are not set up to make as much diesel per bbl of oil as European refineries are. That, plus taxes and politics, plus our use of diesel for fuel oil moreso than in Europe keeps diesel prices high.

Now combine that with America's love of displacement and distaste of 4 cylinder engines in anything other than an economy car and you have a conundrum. BMW brought over the -35d engine instead of the -30 or even the -23 4 pot. So in the -35d, it's overpowered (torque) RWD and spins the tires easily. It does not offer a HUGE fuel economy benefit although it offers a decent one, but there is no price benefit of diesel vs. premium. Plus the diesel costs more than the gas -35 engine so you have a great car that doesn't invite a lot of sales.

Dropped in the X5, this engine finds it's true home. All that torque motivating a larger vehicle makes for superb progress at very decent fuel economy.

America is slowly, but surely, changing course. Smaller engines and turbocharging are becoming more common. The 4 pot is no longer a 4 letter word. Over the next couple of years, this will allow the manufacturers to import more 4 cylinder oil burners.

Keep in mind that the one constant diesel offering in the VAG consortium sells like hotcakes, especially in the Golf camp. So, just as we shall soon have a 4 pot 5 series here, so soon shall we have the Derv as well.

For one, I would have plumped for a 535d in two seconds. Hell, the 8 speed auto keeps the revs so low now that it might as well be a diesel. LOL.

DnA Diesel
04-17-2011, 09:38 PM
The 335d costs too much.

With the North American credits, they are cheaper than a similarly equipped 335i. In fact, I purchased my car for less than a similarly-equipped 328xi.

It has too much torque to accept a clutch and manual gearbox.

As though a manual gearbox is a mandatory requirement? I have a 5-sp TDI Jetta, a 6-sp 540i and I have no issue with the 6A in the 335d, a beautiful transmission.

Relative to other diesels in BMW's lineup its fuel economy is poor.

There are NO OTHER DIESELS in BMW NA's lineup.

And reliability hasn't been great.

Ah...less reliable than the N54 in gasoline-powered 335i's and the known HPFP issue? You can't just burp out statements of reliability...proof? References? 49,500 on my 335d's clock and I have only had the heated steering-wheel relay replaced...the same one that a 328i or 335i also have.

BMWNA is ignoring the market segment that addresses the main advantages diesel offers: economy, reliability and durability.

Ah, I see you have conveniently left torque, seamless acceleration and power with better acceleration than comparably performing gasoline-powered vehicles. You seem to want to relegate diesel-powered vehicles into the slow and boring category.

So you wouldn't drive a car that got notably better mileage and had better performance than your own 328i?

In due course, a 320d would be a great car, but until the N57 comes over in the F10, an M57-powered 335 captures a suitably wide demographic.


Regards,
D.

BimmerUKF10
04-18-2011, 01:50 AM
I'd be interested in a 535d xdrive, but not a 520.

At least you guys can get X-Drive! In the UK we can only get X-Drive in an 'X' vehicle. :mad:

Suppose we all want what we can't have. I would have bought a 535i X-Drive if I could have had one and if the fuel cost here were in line with what you have in the US.

Also - I probably paid 33% more for my BMW because we get screwed over in the UK. You pay a lot less in the US.

Needsdecaf
04-18-2011, 05:28 AM
With the North American credits, they are cheaper than a similarly equipped 335i. In fact, I purchased my car for less than a similarly-equipped 328xi.



As though a manual gearbox is a mandatory requirement? I have a 5-sp TDI Jetta, a 6-sp 540i and I have no issue with the 6A in the 335d, a beautiful transmission.



There are NO OTHER DIESELS in BMW NA's lineup.



Ah...less reliable than the N54 in gasoline-powered 335i's and the known HPFP issue? You can't just burp out statements of reliability...proof? References? 49,500 on my 335d's clock and I have only had the heated steering-wheel relay replaced...the same one that a 328i or 335i also have.



Ah, I see you have conveniently left torque, seamless acceleration and power with better acceleration than comparably performing gasoline-powered vehicles. You seem to want to relegate diesel-powered vehicles into the slow and boring category.

So you wouldn't drive a car that got notably better mileage and had better performance than your own 328i?

In due course, a 320d would be a great car, but until the N57 comes over in the F10, an M57-powered 335 captures a suitably wide demographic.


Regards,
D.

Gee, what side of the fence are you on?



Sent from my DROIDX using Bimmer App

quackbury
04-18-2011, 07:54 AM
Our fuel costs are the equivelent of $US 8.00 per US gallon at the moment.

Yeah, but we're gaining on you. At the current rate I'd say we'll have parity by the end of the year.

Here in Europe we always are wondering why it is so difficult to introduce the Diesels in the U.S.

Part of that is perception, part is infrastructure. I was one of the many Americans who swore I would never have a diesel. "Too slow." "Too loud". "Too smelly". Boy, was I wrong. But it's tough overcoming those sterotypes.

The infrastructure is more challenging, as far fewer stations sell diesel here than petrol, and you cannot afford to let your tank run dry (as TEPCO learned the hard way). Much as I love my X5D, my wife hates when we swap cars; she's petrified that she will run low on fuel and be unable to find a station. (Same problem that is keeping hydrogen and CNG from becoming mainline alternatives, even though they are probably much better environmentally and geo-politically than petrol and diesel).

I have one of my dash presets assigned to finding the nearest diesel station, and I swear by the Gas Buddy app on my Android. It's amazing what an inefficient market diesel can be; I filled up this morning and there was a 15 cent per gallon difference between stations just 1.5 miles apart. And both were major brands: $4.20/gallon at a Mobil, $4.05/gallon at Shell. Personally, I kind of like the "hunt" for low prices, but I can see where others would be turned off.

quackbury
04-18-2011, 07:59 AM
Gee, what side of the fence are you on?

Politicians and schizophrenics have long recognized that its great to be on both sides of the fence at once. (And if the politician in question is Barney Frank, it may even be fun to (ahem) "forcibly" straddle that fence. :fruit:

Needsdecaf
04-18-2011, 08:04 AM
Was not my point.

Sent from my DROIDX using Bimmer App

dunderhi
04-18-2011, 11:19 AM
Politicians and schizophrenics have long recognized that its great to be on both sides of the fence at once. (And if the politician in question is Barney Frank, it may even be fun to (ahem) "forcibly" straddle that fence. :fruit:

I find it interesting how different situations vary by region. I have to go out of my to find a place that doesn't sell diesel. Usually only supermarkets and BJ's are the gas only culprits.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Bimmer App

quackbury
04-18-2011, 04:33 PM
I find it interesting how different situations vary by region. I have to go out of my to find a place that doesn't sell diesel.

You are probably on to something. Here in MA, a "typical" station sits on a fairly small lot (1/4 acre?) and has two islands with a total of 4 pumps. There may not be enough room underground for another (diesel) tank, in addition to the regular, mid and premium ones.

I would also bet that there we have a smaller segment of the population that drives pick-up trucjs than down your way. MA has very little agriculture, less manufacturing, and the housing market has cratered, so probably not as many in the trades. You don't see many financial types driving diesels to work (though I am doing my best to change that :thumbup:)

New2diesel
04-18-2011, 06:02 PM
I think the real issue with diesel in the U.S is its quality. Our german autos are originally designed with European fuel specifications in mind. I'm sure engine management systems compensate for the inferior quality of American diesel. Though, it probably means we will never unleash the true performance these engines have to offer.

dhhbmwfest
06-29-2011, 09:35 AM
I'll weigh in here with 3 quick points:

First, I've been a diesel proponent for quite a long time. Unfortunately our options here in the states have been very limited. However, 2 years ago we finally purchased our first diesel, a GL320 CDI, and we absolutely love it. Gobs of torque, 30mpg highway, 24 combined. And those number are slowly creeping up as the engine loosens (45,000 miles so far). Pretty amazing for a vehicle that can seat 7 comfortably.

Second, there's no way BMW will sell a 4-cylinder 5er here in the states. My guess is the following: the 2012 3er will become a 4 and 6-cylinder platform, while the 5er will remain, as it always been (at least here in the states) a 6 and 8-cylinder platform. As it has already been stated in this thread, displacement sells in the US, so if a diesel 5er comes, it will probably be a 535d.

Lastly, diesel fuel is readily available here in the northeast - we very rarely have trouble finding a place to fill up, and even then, the MB nav system will show where the nearest diesel station is located. Also, diesel tends to hover right around the cost of premium, usually <10%. So consider the following: BMW strongly recommends premium for all? of their engines, so if that's the case, isn't a 20-30% increase in mpg worth it?

I will be replacing our other vehicle within the next year, and if a 535d xDrive is available in the US, my only decisions will be colors and options. Are you listening BMW? ;)

Needsdecaf
06-29-2011, 09:44 AM
Second, there's no way BMW will sell a 4-cylinder 5er here in the states. )

You might want to re-consider that statement. Google N20.

dhhbmwfest
06-29-2011, 09:48 AM
You might want to re-consider that statement. Google N20.

I'm aware of N20, however I still believe that with the 1er already a 4-banger, and the 2012 3er rumored to be going that route as well, I find it hard to believe that the 5er will go that way as well. I could very well be wrong of course, and if that's the case, I will gladly admit it. However, given what we know about the US market, and the history of the 5er here, I simply find it hard to believe. We shall see...

Needsdecaf
06-29-2011, 10:06 AM
I'm aware of N20, however I still believe that with the 1er already a 4-banger, and the 2012 3er rumored to be going that route as well, I find it hard to believe that the 5er will go that way as well. I could very well be wrong of course, and if that's the case, I will gladly admit it. However, given what we know about the US market, and the history of the 5er here, I simply find it hard to believe. We shall see...

Given the fact that engine is essentially replacing the 3.0L N/A I-6, I see it as inevitable. Unless they discontinue the 528 altogether, which I doubt.

dhhbmwfest
06-29-2011, 10:18 AM
Not sure how to interpret these contradictory statements: http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/02/18/bmw-confirms-the-new-n20-four-cylinder-engine-will-be-used-in-1-and-3-series-models/

"...BMW is looking to replace all six-cylinder naturally aspirated engines from their line-up and a new range of four-cylinder engines will be the replacement...According to BMW, six-cylinder engine will continue to be featured in their vast line-up..."

Does this mean that eventually all sixes will be eliminated, or only from the 1er and 3er? :dunno:

Given the fact that engine is essentially replacing the 3.0L N/A I-6, I see it as inevitable. Unless they discontinue the 528 altogether, which I doubt.

Munich77
06-29-2011, 10:50 AM
Not sure how to interpret these contradictory statements: http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/02/18/bmw-confirms-the-new-n20-four-cylinder-engine-will-be-used-in-1-and-3-series-models/

"...BMW is looking to replace all six-cylinder naturally aspirated engines from their line-up and a new range of four-cylinder engines will be the replacement...According to BMW, six-cylinder engine will continue to be featured in their vast line-up..."

Does this mean that eventually all sixes will be eliminated, or only from the 1er and 3er? :dunno:

I think what that statement is supposed to say all non-turbo sixes will be replaced with turbo charged four cylinders while the line-up will still have turbo-sixes

dhhbmwfest
06-29-2011, 10:51 AM
I think what that statement is supposed to say all non-turbo sixes will be replaced with turbo charged four cylinders while the line-up will still have turbo-sixes

That makes sense, thanks! :thumbup: