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MN525i
02-06-2011, 06:33 PM
During the Super Bowl I saw a commercial bragging that the new X3s are designed and built here in the USA. Personally I think this is sacrilegious, when I pay a premium for a white propeller product I expect German quality and value... not a GM. Maybe I am overreacting but it makes me sad to see that BMW has gone this way when just 20 years ago they were building M5s by hand in Garching.

NoWayJose
02-06-2011, 06:35 PM
I saw it also I hope not.

Sent from my Nexus One using Bimmer App

CDirks
02-06-2011, 07:08 PM
z4's have been built in the Spartanburg Virginia(FAQcheck?) factory for a good while now. Does knowing that make your skin crawl and your ego shrink?

EdCT
02-06-2011, 08:00 PM
z4's have been built in the Spartanburg Virginia(FAQcheck?) factory for a good while now. Does knowing that make your skin crawl and your ego shrink?

That's not what the OP is suggesting. What I believe he's referring to, and I agree 100 percent, was the tone of the ad - it was as if you were watching a Chevy Pickup Truck commercial.

It was odd to say the least - makes you wonder who the target market for X3's is.

PS: Spartanburg is in South Carolina ;)

darbyogill
02-06-2011, 08:08 PM
During the Super Bowl I saw a commercial bragging that the new X3s are designed and built here in the USA. Personally I think this is sacrilegious, when I pay a premium for a white propeller product I expect German quality and value... not a GM. Maybe I am overreacting but it makes me sad to see that BMW has gone this way when just 20 years ago they were building M5s by hand in Garching.

...says the guy who hasn't bought a new BMW in 16 years? Or did you even buy the 525i new?

Oh, and by the way, it's not a white propeller (http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/07/bmw-roundel-not-born-from-planes/?ref=automobiles).

Please spare us the righteous indignation.

MN525i
02-06-2011, 08:16 PM
No, I am only 20... I didn't buy my BMW new, but in future I plan to... but maybe not anymore. I would rather not pay for a over priced GM. And yes, it is a white propeller spinning through blue sky.

darbyogill
02-06-2011, 08:23 PM
Got it.

20 years old, and you know everything there is to know about cars simply by the country of final assembly.

And too smart to click on the link provided, showing the (recently revealed) true meaning of the roundel.

Perhaps a new BMW isn't for you. It's ok. They're not for everybody.

MN525i
02-06-2011, 08:33 PM
I said that I know everything about cars? Please, show me the direct quote of where I said this. As for the roundel, its a disputed topic, you believe what you want and I'll stick to what I want. Honestly, if you are going to come here and criticize what I have to say then please do not reply to my thread anymore, I started this to reflect on the drop in quality from BMW and the turning away from the concepts and ideas that made them great, not to see who could ruffle their feathers the most.

adrian's bmw
02-06-2011, 08:38 PM
No, I am only 20... I didn't buy my BMW new, but in future I plan to... but maybe not anymore. I would rather not pay for a over priced GM. And yes, it is a white propeller spinning through blue sky.

:rolleyes: so you were in the market for an X3, X5, or X6, but since you saw a SB commercial showing they're designed and built in the US, now you're not? Really??:rofl: yeah, you're overreacting. And what about all those 3 Series built in South Africa? :confused:

Emission
02-06-2011, 08:43 PM
BMW has been building many of its vehicle in the States for many years (all X5 models, for starters). In fact, many are even designed in the States (E60, Z4 and E9x, to name a few, if my memory serves me). It doesn't detract from their heritage one bit.

However, it does help keep the price down to keep the automaker competitive with Audi and Mercedes-Benz (MB also makes cars in the States). I think we all appreciate that. :thumbup:

- Mike

swajames
02-06-2011, 08:45 PM
Spartanburg builds the X3, X5 and X6. I've never for a second considered the place of manufacture to somehow make these lesser BMWs, and there's really no evidence that the Spartanburg plant product is in any way inferior to product made in Germany.

Emission
02-06-2011, 08:47 PM
Spartanburg builds the X3, X5 and X6. I've never for a second considered the place of manufacture to somehow make these lesser BMWs, and there's really no evidence that the Spartanburg plant product is in any way inferior to product made in Germany.

Honda proved that in the 80's, when they started making their award-winning cars in Ohio without any drop in quality.

- Mike

TerraPhantm
02-06-2011, 08:50 PM
Nothing wrong with the US-built cars - they've been just as high quality as all other BMWs. The engines (and most of the other major equipment) are still made in Germany.

AzNMpower32
02-06-2011, 08:51 PM
In today's world of globalisation, expecting a major brand to source and manufacture every single thing in one single country is naive. BMW was smart to invest and develop the Spartanburg plant and it's created thousands of jobs plus boosted the American economy (we have that awful trade imbalance, remember? There's absolutely nothing wrong with buying a US-built car regardless of brand.

VW is playing catch-up and emulating MB and BMW with the opening of its plant in Chattanooga, TN where the new NA-market Passat will be built.

EdCT
02-06-2011, 08:58 PM
Actually, the Spartanburg plant is so old, BMW built early production e36's there. That's almost 20 years ago now.

MN525i
02-06-2011, 09:14 PM
Sorry, I didn't speak clearly about this the first time. By quality I meant the excitement of driving a BMW. '04 and on BMWs just seem way to bland to me, there isn't the raw excitement that they had in anything from the E39 and prior. It seems they have lost their spirit and BMW is just another greedy car company who couldn't care less about their roots (take the V8 M3s for instance, or the twin turbo N54)

Emission
02-06-2011, 09:22 PM
Sorry, I didn't speak clearly about this the first time. By quality I meant the excitement of driving a BMW. '04 and on BMWs just seem way to bland to me, there isn't the raw excitement that they had in anything from the E39 and prior. It seems they have lost their spirit and BMW is just another greedy car company who couldn't care less about their roots (take the V8 M3s for instance, or the twin turbo N54)

BMW's primary objective is to make money.

So, they need to sell cars and make profit. To sell cars, they must be priced competitively. Oh, they also have to meet emission standards, crash standards, fuel economy standards, etc... um, many of those all take "fun" out of the equation. :rolleyes:

The industry is changing. It's not just BMW.

What automaker strikes your fancy these days?

- Mike

***CCCP***
02-07-2011, 05:36 AM
Got it.

20 years old, and you know everything there is to know about cars simply by the country of final assembly.

And too smart to click on the link provided, showing the (recently revealed) true meaning of the roundel.

Perhaps a new BMW isn't for you. It's ok. They're not for everybody.

I really see where he's coming from and what difference does it make if he never bought BMW brand new? And that he's 20? Take a guy who created a Facebook for example he wasn't too much older and now he has money we can never dream about so age doesn't really mean anything in knowing something. I understand there is nothing wrong with US made BMWs but it just doesn't feel right. And I'm not sure if I would buy one. I love that my win stars with W

Andrew*Debbie
02-07-2011, 06:15 AM
What automaker strikes your fancy these days?

- Mike


I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I'm compelled to answer.

In Alphabetical order they are:

BMW
Not so much for what they are making today, but for where they are going. I'm especially interested in the carbon fibre body going into the MegaCity. That might be the first but I doubt it will be the only CF bodied car coming from BMW.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=265529&stc=1&d=1297084891

Caterham
Somehow they've managed to get around all the things that make everyone else's cars bigger and heavier. Oh and they've partnered with Lola on a new model.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfZaA563XqM

Jaguar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vta7WHOuz2s&feature=related

Lotus
Fast and decent fuel economy. What's not to like?




Tesla
300 mile range electric cars
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=265530&stc=1&d=1297085028


VW

Some reviews say VW will sell XL1 in the UK. Dunno if that's true or not.

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/volkswagen-world/news/282/volkswagen-unveils-the-xl1-super-efficient-vehicle-in-qatar

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=265527&stc=1&d=1297083871

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=265528&stc=1&d=1297083871

Emission
02-07-2011, 08:39 AM
I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I'm compelled to answer.

In Alphabetical order they are:

BMW
Not so much for what they are making today, but for where they are going. I'm especially interested in the carbon fibre body going into the MegaCity. That might be the first but I doubt it will be the only CF bodied car coming from BMW.



Caterham
Somehow they've managed to get around all the things that make everyone else's cars bigger and heavier. Oh and they've partnered with Lola on a new model.



Jaguar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vta7WHOuz2s&feature=related

Lotus
Fast and decent fuel economy. What's not to like?




Tesla
300 mile range electric cars


VW

Some reviews say VW will sell XL1 in the UK. Dunno if that's true or not.



Interesting.

As as someone who sits inside the industry, my list of driver-centric passionate automakers (in random order):

Hyundai
BMW
Porsche
Jaguar
Lotus
Nissan
Audi
Bentley
Aston Martin
Ford
Mercedes-Benz
Cadillac
Mini

Wow. The list is longer than I thought!

- Mike

EdCT
02-07-2011, 08:42 AM
Oh, they also have to meet emission standards, crash standards, fuel economy standards, etc... um, many of those all take "fun" out of the equation. :rolleyes:


- Mike

I don't agree entirely - there are plenty of fun cars available today that meet crash standards, without going into a long list of them, they span the price range from Miatas to Boxsters.

You're a relatively young guy, you weren't around in the 60's and 70's when cars were truly horrid to drive - steering that felt connected to oatmeal, tires with no grip, flaccid body structures, etc. - cars were not necessarily fun to drive, but they did have character.

What hurts today's cars is size, weight and the lack of interest from the public in performance and actually "driving". I can't say I blame them, many Americans spend much of their time in traffic where their cars are mobile offices and entertainment centers rather than entertaining to drive.

Still, I'm 54, I'd never trade my ZHP for anything from my youth - you can keep the wooly steering and bad brakes, thanks, I'm staying "modern":D

indeed330
02-07-2011, 08:57 AM
It's more about the company and employee culture than the location of the factory the car is built in. And good company culture (just like a bad one) will easily cross boundaries - so I don't think it really matters so much, in the globalized world we live in today, where the sheet metal has been crafted. The ideals, the pedigree and the direction the company is heading are far more important to us.

JimD1
02-07-2011, 09:26 AM
I got a tour of the Spartanburg plant when I took delivery of my 09 128i vert at the performance center. I have not been through a GM plant but I am pretty sure the Spartanburg plant looks more like the Munich and other German plants than it does GM plants. South Carolina is a right to work state and we have very little union labor. That was probably a big part of the reason Boeing is moving part of their 787 dreamliner production to Charleston. My car has something like 99% German content. An X3 from Spartanburg has got to be 50% or more German content. It will not be 99% American just because it is assembled here (I strongly suspect there are no 99% American cars anymore, probably 70-80% maximum).

I also do not think that you can assume that German manufacture is better than American. I would not put a favorable mark by assembly in an old American factory with a disgruntled workforce but that is not what you will find in Spartanburg. The factory may be 20 years old but it doesn't look it. And I am confident GM has factories over 100 years old - BMW probably does too. BMWs plant is highly automated with a skilled workforce. I am confident they will track issues now that the X3 has moved here and take action if it is not every bit as trouble free as it was when made in Germany. The workforce is not unionized and is unlikely to become so. People in SC know northern manufacturing moves here for non-union labor. They have a pretty good idea it won't stay here if they unionize. But union or non-union does not decide quality either. You want people who are pleased to do what they are doing build your car. Not somebody upset, especially if they are upset with their employer and looking for a way to get even or so distracted they become error prone. That can happen anywhere but certain environments are worse than others. I saw no signs of a negative environment in my brief visit to the Spartanburg BMW plant. I'm a little disappointed they moved X3s there because there is a chance I will want one in a few years and I would like to do ED. Other than that, I see no disadvantage to assembly in Spartanburg.

Jim

6 Brit
02-07-2011, 09:34 AM
yes...they have sold out

not because any of them are US built but because they just suck in general IMO compared to other cars in their price range...

dpritchett
02-07-2011, 09:49 AM
Actually, the Spartanburg plant is so old, BMW built early production e36's there. That's almost 20 years ago now.

20 years is not that old for an auto plant...

but consider that BMW retools the factory when they change the models being produced there. The SC facility was expanded to accomodate the X3 line; Technology is being updated all the time .. robotics, paint tech, etc.

There's a TV show that visits factories, (I saw them on NAGEO about a year ago). If you watch the one on the South Carolina plant and compare it to some of the others in the series, you will be quite impressed with the BMW facility.

chrisk03
02-07-2011, 10:46 AM
I don't think it's really "selling out", just nature of the global/competitive beast. Funny though, I for one wanted my BMW to come from Germany, not South Africa, so I can see where you are coming from. The reactions are a little surprising to me, as well. Maybe's it's stupid or inconsequential, but paying a premium price for a German vehicle, yeah, I kinda wanted it to come from Germany. That said, I actually like the new X3 for the better half and would have no problem potentially buying.

I also don't think this is that new of a discussion, but perhaps you did phrase a little inflammatory. This same discussion or debate went on over on a well known Honda site I still frequent. I'm trying to find the study or discussion, but I believe at one point the Japanese built Honda's/Acura's had slightly higher reliability than the domestic (US) made vehicles. Again, probably not statistically significant, but still kept the "debate" going.

Either way, I look forward to checking out the SC BMW plant at some point.

Andrew*Debbie
02-07-2011, 11:09 AM
but I believe at one point the Japanese built Honda's/Acura's had slightly higher reliability than the domestic (US) made vehicles. Again, probably not statistically significant, but still kept the "debate" going.


The American built Z4 is one of the most reliable BMWs.



Either way, I look forward to checking out the SC BMW plant at some point.

We've toured a couple of BMW plants including Spartenberg. Highly recommended.

amancuso
02-07-2011, 12:02 PM
yes...they have sold out

not because any of them are US built but because they just suck in general IMO compared to other cars in their price range...

I love the way that everyone that says this has a 10+ year old car.

darbyogill
02-07-2011, 12:18 PM
I love the way that everyone that says this has a 10+ year old car.

All of us will get old. And when we do we will rhapsodize about a time when we were young...when prices were reasonable, when politicians were noble, when cars were 'built like they used to' and when children respected their elders.

EdCT
02-07-2011, 12:22 PM
My ZHP convertible is the first of the three BMWs I've had that was made 100 percent in Germany, in a special factory no less. It's no different in build quality than either of my other two cars, the Z4 (built in the US) and the 323i (built in SA).

This car is built to a higher standard, mainly befitting of its trim level, price and stature in the lineup from that year (2006), but aside from that, you'd never say "hey, I can tell this was built in Germany".

cruise_bone
02-07-2011, 01:01 PM
During the Super Bowl I saw a commercial bragging that the new X3s are designed and built here in the USA. Personally I think this is sacrilegious, when I pay a premium for a white propeller product I expect German quality and value... not a GM. Maybe I am overreacting but it makes me sad to see that BMW has gone this way when just 20 years ago they were building M5s by hand in Garching.

Perhaps you should educate yourself about things before you post.

DesignworksUSA is a pretty cool company under the BMW Group umbrella. It happens to be an American company.
http://www.designworksusa.com/design/index.html

The fact that the previous Z and all the X's are now assembled in the USA should not imply a decrease in quality.

My car was built at the Regensberg plant, which I knew at the time of purchase. I wanted a German build so I could enjoy Euro delivery. I also did Performance Center delivery here in the US. I took a tour of both factories and found amazing similarities between the two. I was quite impressed with the SC plant as it far exceeded my expectations as to how a US assembly plant would look from an organizational and cleanliness standpoint, and from how efficient it appeared to operate.
The bottom line is that cars produced/assembled in the US and SA do have German quality and value.

The whole point of the commercial was to show the American consumer just how much BMW has invested in America, their single largest market. I'm sure the importance of this point was entirely lost on you. I doubt BMW considers you their target audience, so really nothing was lost on you.

darbyogill
02-07-2011, 01:09 PM
The whole point of the commercial was to show the American consumer just how much BMW has invested in America, their single largest market.

Cool factoid never mentioned in that commercial--BMW is the largest exporter of vehicles in the USA. BMW exports more cars made in the USA than GM, Chevy or Ford. And the rest of the world has no problem with made in the USA quality. Funny that the Americans do.

cue the music...
And I'm proud to be an American...where at least I know I'm free...

E36 Phantom
02-07-2011, 01:26 PM
That's not what the OP is suggesting. What I believe he's referring to, and I agree 100 percent, was the tone of the ad - it was as if you were watching a Chevy Pickup Truck commercial.

It was odd to say the least - makes you wonder who the target market for X3's is.

PS: Spartanburg is in South Carolina ;)

+1 about the general tone of the commercial. I felt the same, I was just waiting to see the kidney grilles with "BMW Runs Deep" across them.

Sent from my Droid using Bimmer App

Capobranco
02-07-2011, 02:11 PM
I consider the production of BMWs in South Carolina to be a huge positive and an incentive to continue to purchase BMWs. I take pride that my fellow Americans can satisfy the demands of the not only the American market but the world market. BMW has demonstrated that manufacturing in America is not only possible but advantageous given the proper investment and corporate esprit de corps. I feel a pride of ownership that BMW is the result of Europeans and Americans working together to produce one of the highest quality vehicles on the planet. In my company which is involved in the arts – Italians (Florence) and Americans have come together with a unity of purpose that has not only improved quality, but has provided significant innovation, and marketing benefits.

EdCT
02-07-2011, 09:26 PM
+1 about the general tone of the commercial. I felt the same, I was just waiting to see the kidney grilles with "BMW Runs Deep" across them.



:rofl:

BeemerMikeTX
02-08-2011, 08:09 AM
+1 about the general tone of the commercial. I felt the same, I was just waiting to see the kidney grilles with "BMW Runs Deep" across them.

:thumbup:

I call "No Joy"!

Sorry . . .

Killjoy
02-08-2011, 10:06 PM
That's not what the OP is suggesting. What I believe he's referring to, and I agree 100 percent, was the tone of the ad - it was as if you were watching a Chevy Pickup Truck commercial.

It was odd to say the least - makes you wonder who the target market for X3's is.

PS: Spartanburg is in South Carolina ;)

+1. I think most of the people missed the point of this thread.

I was pretty turned off by the commercial too, when I saw it during the Super Bowl. It didn't feel right to me, kind of like imperceptibly sour milk in your cereal.

Adi
02-09-2011, 01:53 AM
I never saw the commercial you're talking about but I can imagine (seeing other US car commercials on youtube).... by the way, is this advert on youtube already?... that it was a bit schmalzy and 'Marlboro Man', ie BMW as a great American company, when probably BMW's historical and commercial edge (as with Audi, etc) has been it's GERMAN industrial//technology/quality background. I guess this is what has grated with some people, not the product quality as such but the marketing message.

Andrew*Debbie
02-09-2011, 03:53 AM
I am confident they will track issues now that the X3 has moved here and take action if it is not every bit as trouble free as it was when made in Germany.


The old e83 X3 was not made in Germany. They were built by Magna Steyr in Graz Austria. Magna did some of engineering work on the e83 X3 as well.

Magna Steyr currently produces the MINI Countryman for BMW.


http://www.magnasteyr.com/xchg/complete_vehicle/XSL/standard.xsl/-/content/903_905.html


http://www.magnasteyr.com/xchg/complete_vehicle/XSL/standard.xsl/-/content/148_1533.htm

Naldo
02-09-2011, 08:49 AM
There are a LOT of factors that go into the very high quality of vehicles produced in Spartanburg. Of course starting with BMW.

One of the most important, however, is that at the Spartanburg plant there is no UAW to get in the way.

AzNMpower32
02-09-2011, 08:52 AM
Actually, BMW NA has been producing some pretty rubbish adverts for the last few years. I remember when the whole point of a BMW commercial was about "Zero-cost maintenance", not a word about performance, benchmark, etc.....They need to find a different ad agency.

mujjuman
02-09-2011, 08:54 AM
BMW is stirring American economy. They are bringing more much needed job here

swajames
02-09-2011, 09:37 AM
There are a LOT of factors that go into the very high quality of vehicles produced in Spartanburg. Of course starting with BMW.

One of the most important, however, is that at the Spartanburg plant there is no UAW to get in the way.

On the other hand, BMW's German workforce *is* unionized. As is Porsche, whose unionzed workforce produce vehicles that consistently score very well in the JD Power and other reliability ratings. BMW's US workforce not unionized. All of them produce high quality vehicles. The reality is that presence of a union, in itself, is not what drives or impacts the quality of the product.

Naldo
02-09-2011, 10:32 AM
On the other hand, BMW's German workforce *is* unionized. As is Porsche, whose unionzed workforce produce vehicles that consistently score very well in the JD Power and other reliability ratings. BMW's US workforce not unionized. All of them produce high quality vehicles. The reality is that presence of a union, in itself, is not what drives or impacts the quality of the product.

Except in the case of American cars. The extra cost that the presence of UAW puts into every car reduces, by necessity the quality of materials in those vehicles. For instance, take a look at the window sill inside a new Ford Fusion, 2010, with your finger tips try pulling the plastic away from the glass, now try doing the same thing in any BMW. The fact that you can pull the door panel away from the glass is due to inferior materials necessitated by ridiculous demands put upon the auto industry by the UAW.

At Spartanburg you have very well compensated, very happy employees building an exceptionally high quality vehicle with parts and materials of much higher quality than those available to factories that are plagued by the UAW.

swimjim
02-09-2011, 01:23 PM
the bmw plant is spartanburg is a very nice facility. after spending 7 years in sc, it was great to drive by the plant and see the test track and know that if you wanted, you could take a driver's course using their vehicles.

its also great that bmw, and many other companies, are spending huge amounts of money - and they do get huge tax incentives - to have their cars/trucks built by americans. obviously, this also helps carmakers to get around import taxes passed 20(?) years ago.

if there are those who feel that a german, japanese, korean, whathaveyou vehicle built in the states is of lesser quality, then please feel free to buy the "american" car hecho en mexico or in canada (sorry for not being fluent in french!).

i, personally, would spend money on an "import" if it were made/assembled here in the states compared to an "american" car built somewhere else.

cruise_bone
02-09-2011, 03:07 PM
i personally would spend money on an "import" if it were made/assembled here in the states compared to an "american" car built ANYWHERE.

Fixed. :D

Squiddie
02-09-2011, 03:24 PM
Nothing wrong with the US-built cars - they've been just as high quality as all other BMWs. The engines (and most of the other major equipment) are still made in Germany.

And all the smaller parts in all the cars made anywhere come from all over the place.

In particular those that tend to get you annoyed like little electronics bits.

The major problem with US made cars is that they make them differently in the US for the US market. Try to rent a Ford Focus here and in Germany. Entirely different cars except for the tin outside. Friends of mine did that just recently and were horrified.

x777driver
02-09-2011, 08:41 PM
I was intrigued by BMW until we visited the plant in Spartanburg. I became something of a fanatic. Taking delivery of a 535i at the Performance Center in two weeks and we have an X3 on order we hope to be ready for pick up first week of March. The complimentary Performance Center delivery is a phenomenal deal if you have the time to take advantage of it.

centerice
02-09-2011, 09:05 PM
Born and raised near Spartanburg, so I'm certainly biased on this topic. I saw the commercial and as you would guess, was very proud of what they said. I was already in the military when the plant was built, but from what I hear from my relatives back home, there is a very long list of applicants for each available job. This gives them a large eager labor pool to pick from. The technical colleges in the area have geared programs supporting the plant. They have also partnered with Clemson University for several research and engineering programs. Finally, BMW didn't pick Spartanburg as an assembly location out of a hat. There were many other German firms (chemical and fiber) who had moved into the area 20 years earlier. So the area had a historical business relationship with Germany. They knew the quality of labor and local support well before locating there.

UncleJ
02-09-2011, 09:42 PM
I like american built cars, always have had good luck with domestics. For some reason I missed out on the "horrible" years when they buiilt absolute dreck, I was going through my Mercedes diesel period then. Always had a domestic truck though, and those were all great. Gave good service, and were cheap and easy to maintain and repair. Somehow the dreck from the car line didn't get into the truck lines. And my point is....what? No point I guess, except to point out that some pretty good stuff has come out of the USA. I am sure that the BMW/MB/VW/Hyundai/Toyota/Subaru/Mazda/Kia/Nissan/Honda assembly plants that are located here now would be a witness to that.:thumbup:

EdCT
02-09-2011, 11:12 PM
Except in the case of American cars. The extra cost that the presence of UAW puts into every car reduces, by necessity the quality of materials in those vehicles. For instance, take a look at the window sill inside a new Ford Fusion, 2010, with your finger tips try pulling the plastic away from the glass, now try doing the same thing in any BMW. The fact that you can pull the door panel away from the glass is due to inferior materials necessitated by ridiculous demands put upon the auto industry by the UAW.

At Spartanburg you have very well compensated, very happy employees building an exceptionally high quality vehicle with parts and materials of much higher quality than those available to factories that are plagued by the UAW.

What a bunch of nonsense - the UAW have nothing to do with what trim is selected for the door panels - jeeze .... :rolleyes:

BMW in Germany is highly unionized - do you think they're using cheaper door panels over there? How silly.

pilotman
02-10-2011, 06:24 AM
What a bunch of nonsense - the UAW have nothing to do with what trim is selected for the door panels - jeeze .... :rolleyes:

BMW in Germany is highly unionized - do you think they're using cheaper door panels over there? How silly.

UAW workers have been caught drinking and doing drugs while on the job, TWICE, in the lsat 3 months.

These were Chrysler workers, some at the Sterling plant here in Metro Detroit. Our local news reports on these types of activities several times a year.

And you can say it was an isolated incident, but in these two recent cases there were multiple workers involved (i.e. 20-30) and they were drinking on the job EVERY DAY for weeks at a time. This wasn't a random Friday birthday celebration, etc.

I have a different perspective living in Detroit around a lot of UAW members.

I have personally had two foreign cars KEYED with UAW slogans, "buy american" , "traitor", etc....an e46 BMW and a Honda Accord.

need4speed
02-10-2011, 07:49 AM
Yes. N4S

pilotman
02-10-2011, 12:12 PM
Another example of why I hope BMW's US operations never become unionized.

Yeah, the UAW is really great.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/26821380/detail.html

DETROIT -- An appeals court says two former union officials must be sentenced again, nearly five years after being convicted of threatening to prolong a strike against General Motors Corp. unless two people were hired.

The court said Thursday that federal Judge Nancy Edmunds, among other things, failed to consider the financial loss suffered by GM when the two people were hired and many UAW members filed grievances.

Donny Douglas and Jay Campbell were sentenced to six months of house arrest. They were charged with threatening to extend a three-month strike at the Pontiac truck factory in 1997 unless a friend and family member were hired for $150,000 jobs.

Campbell's attorney, Harold Gurewitz, says he's disappointed with the decision. Douglas' attorney, N.C. Deday Larene, declined to comment.

EdCT
02-10-2011, 04:34 PM
UAW workers have been caught drinking and doing drugs while on the job, TWICE, in the lsat 3 months.

These were Chrysler workers, some at the Sterling plant here in Metro Detroit. Our local news reports on these types of activities several times a year.

And you can say it was an isolated incident, but in these two recent cases there were multiple workers involved (i.e. 20-30) and they were drinking on the job EVERY DAY for weeks at a time. This wasn't a random Friday birthday celebration, etc.

I have a different perspective living in Detroit around a lot of UAW members.

I have personally had two foreign cars KEYED with UAW slogans, "buy american" , "traitor", etc....an e46 BMW and a Honda Accord.

What does any of that have to do with what I wrote (and you quoted?) :dunno:

vandyjmf05
02-11-2011, 02:31 PM
During the Super Bowl I saw a commercial bragging that the new X3s are designed and built here in the USA. Personally I think this is sacrilegious, when I pay a premium for a white propeller product I expect German quality and value... not a GM. Maybe I am overreacting but it makes me sad to see that BMW has gone this way when just 20 years ago they were building M5s by hand in Garching.

BMW sold out when they started selling cars. Hence the term "sold", once they sold a car it became a business, which is intended to make a profit in the greatest amounts possible. If the business that is BMW decides to change to remain or become more profitable, then BMW will make those changes.

Typically when a Company changes to a lower-cost manufacturing footprint, it enables the Company to remain competitive on price rather than just pocketing the profits. This allows them to grow market share, and from the economy's standpoint, increase the overall supply of BMW's (good for society). The change is a good thing; it helps regular Joes like ourselves afford a BMW.

If some central planner in Germany decided that it was a 'neat' idea to have BMW remain 100% manufactured in Germany, then we would all be worse-off because we would be paying more for our cars.

In other words, your romantic desire to have BMW's manufactured in Germany instead of South Carolina is bad for society as a whole vs. allowing the Company to manufacture where it's most efficient. All because you think it's "right".

Since you are only 20, perhaps you are in college? If that is the case, may I suggest a microeconomics course and take copious notes.

Emission
02-11-2011, 02:38 PM
BMW sold out when they started selling cars. Hence the term "sold", once they sold a car it became a business, which is intended to make a profit in the greatest amounts possible. If the business that is BMW decides to change to remain or become more profitable, then BMW will make those changes.

Typically when a Company changes to a lower-cost manufacturing footprint, it enables the Company to remain competitive on price rather than just pocketing the profits. This allows them to grow market share, and from the economy's standpoint, increase the overall supply of BMW's (good for society). The change is a good thing; it helps regular Joes like ourselves afford a BMW.

If some central planner in Germany decided that it was a 'neat' idea to have BMW remain 100% manufactured in Germany, then we would all be worse-off because we would be paying more for our cars.

In other words, your romantic desire to have BMW's manufactured in Germany instead of South Carolina is bad for society as a whole vs. allowing the Company to manufacture where it's most efficient. All because you think it's "right".

Since you are only 20, perhaps you are in college? If that is the case, may I suggest a microeconomics course and take copious notes.

Well said.

- Mike

Inline Sixer
02-12-2011, 03:37 PM
The word "sell out" is a phrase only used to criticize artists. Selling out is the act of sacrificing "art" for the sake of "sales". e.g. instead of breaking new ground with innovative music, "joe's band" sold out... they used to starve and live on the streets for their ground-breaking works (that did not sell), and now oh boy have they changed by making it big...

BMW is not an artist. Wake up. Selling-out is the intention, and boy did they sell-out well for January of 2011. OP, name me an auto-manufacturer that has not "sold-out" (sacrificed "sales" for the sake of "art"). News flash, there is none.

jpointe
02-12-2011, 09:12 PM
Actually, BMW NA has been producing some pretty rubbish adverts for the last few years. I remember when the whole point of a BMW commercial was about "Zero-cost maintenance", not a word about performance, benchmark, etc.....They need to find a different ad agency.

+1

Globalization and politics aside, the Super Bowl ads did not do BMW's image justice even if it wanted to celebrate its American manufacturing.

Here's an example of a great pro-American ad. Edgy and cool. BMW's was too light and soft for its "Ultimate Driving Machine" reputation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKL254Y_jtc

donibm
02-12-2011, 09:47 PM
I agree with him. Its a GERMAN car that is now manufactored in AMERICA. American design and technology are NOWHERE CLOSE TO EUROPE.

Still, this young man is right in his logic. And if there is any doubt:

Ford
Chevy
GM
Dodge
Jeep
Plymouth
Buick
Cadilac
Saturn
...

VERSES

Buggatii
Jaguar
BMW
M-Benz
Audi
F
Lamb
Porshe
...

Seriously, BMW building cars in the US is a serious DOWNGRADE. If I wanted a US built car, I'd by a US badged vehicle.

donibm
02-12-2011, 09:55 PM
+1

Globalization and politics aside, the Super Bowl ads did not do BMW's image justice even if it wanted to celebrate its American manufacturing.

Here's an example of a great pro-American ad. Edgy and cool. BMW's was too light and soft for its "Ultimate Driving Machine" reputation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKL254Y_jtc

Commercial is patriotic, and nice, but the car is still garbage. That video makes it look prettier than what it really is.

Far as the actual ads are concerned, well, the idea is the best ones don't need to advertise. How many Honda, Toyota or Buick commercials do we see? Now how many Bently, Lamby, or Buggatti commercials do we see? So, does BMW "have a point to prove?" I'd say no. Other manufactorer do, including Audi. They are stepping thier design up and they are doing it good, but they have something to prove - that they can match BMW.

BMW doesn't need to advertise hard. Kings never do.

MN525i
02-13-2011, 02:31 AM
BMW sold out when they started selling cars. Hence the term "sold", once they sold a car it became a business, which is intended to make a profit in the greatest amounts possible. If the business that is BMW decides to change to remain or become more profitable, then BMW will make those changes.

Typically when a Company changes to a lower-cost manufacturing footprint, it enables the Company to remain competitive on price rather than just pocketing the profits. This allows them to grow market share, and from the economy's standpoint, increase the overall supply of BMW's (good for society). The change is a good thing; it helps regular Joes like ourselves afford a BMW.

If some central planner in Germany decided that it was a 'neat' idea to have BMW remain 100% manufactured in Germany, then we would all be worse-off because we would be paying more for our cars.

In other words, your romantic desire to have BMW's manufactured in Germany instead of South Carolina is bad for society as a whole vs. allowing the Company to manufacture where it's most efficient. All because you think it's "right".

Since you are only 20, perhaps you are in college? If that is the case, may I suggest a microeconomics course and take copious notes.

Who cares if everyone can't buy a BMW? Boohoo, save up some money like I did... its not hard. The point is, BMW is degrading the greatness of their cars by allowing Americans to produce them. Its hard for BMW to use the slogan "Ultimate Driving Machine" when America has yet to produce a sports car to the quality that BMW used to. College? Thanks to the people that have been running the country the last 20 years I'm already $127k in debt, like i need more so I can receive a piece of paper allowing me to make $3 more an hour.

The word "sell out" is a phrase only used to criticize artists. Selling out is the act of sacrificing "art" for the sake of "sales". e.g. instead of breaking new ground with innovative music, "joe's band" sold out... they used to starve and live on the streets for their ground-breaking works (that did not sell), and now oh boy have they changed by making it big...

BMW is not an artist. Wake up. Selling-out is the intention, and boy did they sell-out well for January of 2011. OP, name me an auto-manufacturer that has not "sold-out" (sacrificed "sales" for the sake of "art"). News flash, there is none.

Bugatti
Pagani
Gumpert
Audi
Caterham
Lexus
Lotus
Bentley
Lamborghini
Ferrari
Porsche
Jeep
Volvo
Koenigsegg

Inline Sixer
02-13-2011, 05:39 AM
Bugatti
Pagani
Gumpert
Audi
Caterham
Lexus
Lotus
Bentley
Lamborghini
Ferrari
Porsche
Jeep
Volvo
Koenigsegg

Bugatti would not exist without the VW sell-out machine. Audi/VW is trying to sell-out with all these "the new luxury" commercials too. Porsche destroyed it's "art" by making the Cayenne and Panamera. Ferrari is coming up with a four door. Why is Lexus up there? - the bottom line of this company is comfort and luxury at the expense of driving dynamics, well, again to have the mass appeal to create profits to finance the LFA. Jeep, one word: "Compass". Lotus can build a lighter, better engine, but can't because of financial considerations. Lotus engines are Toyota sourced FYI. Morgan, not on list, still makes cars out of wood, but has to source BMW engines.

They all draft business plans for new products, have target margins and have carefully planned innovations -- the successes of which are judged by market share and profit. The money has to come from selling out somewhere in order to forward the automotive art. Yes, even supercar makers are not charitable institutions meant to bleed money at the expense building the perfect car.


Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp

EdCT
02-13-2011, 07:38 AM
I agree with him. Its a GERMAN car that is now manufactored in AMERICA. American design and technology are NOWHERE CLOSE TO EUROPE.


Seriously, BMW building cars in the US is a serious DOWNGRADE. If I wanted a US built car, I'd by a US badged vehicle.

You own an X5? Better check its country of origin dude :rofl:

Inline Sixer
02-13-2011, 08:14 AM
You own an X5? Better check its country of origin dude :rofl:

"Spartanburg" sounds like it's in Germany, right? Anyone? Anyone?

:rofl:


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MN525i
02-13-2011, 08:30 AM
Bugatti would not exist without the VW sell-out machine. Audi/VW is trying to sell-out with all these "the new luxury" commercials too. Porsche destroyed it's "art" by making the Cayenne and Panamera. Ferrari is coming up with a four door. Why is Lexus up there? - the bottom line of this company is comfort and luxury at the expense of driving dynamics, well, again to have the mass appeal to create profits to finance the LFA. Jeep, one word: "Compass". Lotus can build a lighter, better engine, but can't because of financial considerations. Lotus engines are Toyota sourced FYI. Morgan, not on list, still makes cars out of wood, but has to source BMW engines.

They all draft business plans for new products, have target margins and have carefully planned innovations -- the successes of which are judged by market share and profit. The money has to come from selling out somewhere in order to forward the automotive art. Yes, even supercar makers are not charitable institutions meant to bleed money at the expense building the perfect car.


Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp

Im not talking about car companies not making new products, I'm talking about them not abandoning the things that made them what they are. Its about sticking to the ideas that worked for 30 years and people loved.

rhird
02-13-2011, 08:32 AM
Suggest u should visit the factory. Very impressive in person.

swajames
02-13-2011, 09:10 AM
Seriously, BMW building cars in the US is a serious DOWNGRADE. If I wanted a US built car, I'd by a US badged vehicle.

Yeah, those German-built X5s are so much better than anything built over here in the US ;)

Andrew*Debbie
02-13-2011, 10:02 AM
Seriously, BMW building cars in the US is a serious DOWNGRADE. If I wanted a US built car, I'd by a US badged vehicle.

Like a Buick Regal? Oh wait those are built in Rüsselsheim, Germany.

EdCT
02-13-2011, 11:00 AM
Im not talking about car companies not making new products, I'm talking about them not abandoning the things that made them what they are. Its about sticking to the ideas that worked for 30 years and people loved.

30 years:dunno: :eek: If that's your frame of reference, you must be really, really young :D

captainaudio
02-13-2011, 11:11 AM
As far as Enzo Ferrari was concerned all Ferrari road cars were "sell outs" and only were produced to finance his racing efforts.

CA

ProRail
02-13-2011, 11:12 AM
Im not talking about car companies not making new products, I'm talking about them not abandoning the things that made them what they are. Its about sticking to the ideas that worked for 30 years and people loved.

If anyone can suggest specific things that might be on this list it would help me understand this complaint. I can only think of a few, and they're not real biggies (IMO).

TerraPhantm
02-13-2011, 11:23 AM
Sorry, I didn't speak clearly about this the first time. By quality I meant the excitement of driving a BMW. '04 and on BMWs just seem way to bland to me, there isn't the raw excitement that they had in anything from the E39 and prior. It seems they have lost their spirit and BMW is just another greedy car company who couldn't care less about their roots (take the V8 M3s for instance, or the twin turbo N54)

04 and on, eh? How about you drive my 05 M3 and go back to you E34 525, and tell me which is more exciting :P

In all seriousness though, what's wrong with a V8 M3 or the twin-turbo N54? Both are great engines, and both were necessary for BMW to further their respective platforms. The original M3 was a 200hp 4-cylinder, do you think it was sacriligous for them to make the next two ~300hp 6-cyl motors? Isn't that similar to going to a 400hp 8cyl? The S65 revs higher and weighs less than the S54 it replaced... isn't that about as good as it gets for an evolution?

vandyjmf05
02-14-2011, 09:40 AM
Who cares if everyone can't buy a BMW? Boohoo, save up some money like I did... its not hard. The point is, BMW is degrading the greatness of their cars by allowing Americans to produce them. Its hard for BMW to use the slogan "Ultimate Driving Machine" when America has yet to produce a sports car to the quality that BMW used to. College? Thanks to the people that have been running the country the last 20 years I'm already $127k in debt, like i need more so I can receive a piece of paper allowing me to make $3 more an hour.


Boohoo? Save up money like you did... it's not hard? To the tune of negative savings of $127K? I can't believe I'm even responding to such a ridiculous contradiction.

I'll take the safer assumption that you're in debt rather than bet on your ability to save, and suggest maybe producing BMW's where it costs the least could very well be in your best interest.

Good luck.

Inline Sixer
02-14-2011, 09:57 AM
I looked at the bottom of my Macbook Pro today, and my eyes filled with horror as I read the words: "Designed in California, Assembled in China". It left me distraught and on the verge of rage. I felt betrayed. I've been using it for a good year now thinking it was a quality piece of equipment. Now my mind has changed and I don't think I will ever recover. I want my Mac built by real Northern Californians dammit.

:rofl:

Andrew*Debbie
02-14-2011, 09:57 AM
If I wanted a US built car, I'd by a US badged vehicle.

>>Mein auto: 2009 X5<<

Ruh roh.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=266469&stc=1&d=1297702642

asindc
03-06-2011, 08:01 PM
Commercial is patriotic, and nice, but the car is still garbage. That video makes it look prettier than what it really is.

Far as the actual ads are concerned, well, the idea is the best ones don't need to advertise. How many Honda, Toyota or Buick commercials do we see? Now how many Bently, Lamby, or Buggatti commercials do we see? So, does BMW "have a point to prove?" I'd say no. Other manufactorer do, including Audi. They are stepping thier design up and they are doing it good, but they have something to prove - that they can match BMW.

BMW doesn't need to advertise hard. Kings never do.

Have you driven a Chrysler 200?

donibm
03-06-2011, 08:06 PM
You own an X5? Better check its country of origin dude :rofl:

Uhm, I brought my car outright. It was SHIPPED to me from Germany. How do I know? Because I TRACKED it for a month prior to it landing in Florida.

swajames
03-06-2011, 08:10 PM
Uhm, I brought my car outright. It was SHIPPED to me from Germany. How do I know? Because I TRACKED it for a month prior to it landing in Florida.

Your car was built in the US.

donibm
03-06-2011, 08:17 PM
Like a Buick Regal? Oh wait those are built in Rüsselsheim, Germany.

Bro, we're talking about a BMW here. Buick Regal isn't even apples to oranges, it's more like apples to ... dog food or something (Buick being the dog food).

I don't own and have never owned a Buick. But aren't they manufactoered by GM? Aren't their 2011 models being built in Canada?

Either way, I honestly don't care, the design is still crap. and there are other European cars that aren't very good either (I know - I'm European), but on the WHOLE, America has nothing on the engineering and design of European cars. Hell, the same can be said for food and clothes (and history, and romantic places, and worth [Euro vs USD]) if we really want to take it there.

ITALIAN pizza
FRENCH bread
PERSIAN rugs
ASIAN electronics
EUROPEAN cars
FORIEGN oil
ancient HISTORY

... and America has ... GMC and a Buick Regal.

I'd import a PEUGEOT before I ever buy a Buick.

EdCT
03-06-2011, 08:22 PM
Bro, we're talking about a BMW here. Buick Regal isn't even apples to oranges, it's more like apples to ... dog food or something (Buick being the dog food).


I'd import a PEUGEOT before I ever buy a Buick.

Funny how the same GM-built automatic transmission can find its way into some Buicks, Caddies and, wait for it, BMW's ;)

donibm
03-06-2011, 08:32 PM
Your car was built in the US.

My car was built in the US? OK, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't I type that I ORDERED the car (I had it built to the specs i wanted)? Didn't I type that I TRACKED it? So, did I imagine the port of departure and the ports of entry? Did BMW lie to me?

Honestly, I'm gonna have to end this right here, because I have issue when I tell someone that "I don't like coffee" and they say "actually you do, you just got tricked by your taste buds". Who else knows what I know? Who can tell me what I've doen and not done other than myself?

Sorry, you're wrong. I don't own an X3. In fact, it's a wonder why you'd say that my Bimmer was built in the US when I don't think I even posted what year or model my BMW is.

Sorry, you're wrong. My 2009 X5 was built and shipped FROM GERMANY. That much ... is a fact.

EdCT
03-06-2011, 08:44 PM
My car was built in the US? OK, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't I type that I ORDERED the car (I had it built to the specs i wanted)? Didn't I type that I TRACKED it? So, did I imagine the port or departure and the ports of entry? Did BMW lie to me?

Honestly, I'm gonna have to end this right here, because I have issue when I tell someone that "I don't like coffee" and they say "actually you do, you just got tricked by your taste buds just tricked you".

Sorry, I don't own an X3. My Bimmer is irrelevant to this forum (in fact, it's a wonder why you'd say that my Bimmer was built in the US when I don't think I even posted what year or model my BMW is). ... wow.

Sorry, you're way wrong. My 2009 X5 was built and shipped FROM GERMANY.

We can end this now - just post the letters in your vin - it'll reveal country of origin. That is, unless you don't want to know ...:p

X5's are built in Russia or South Carolina, period. It has nothing to do with whether you like coffee or not.

Jeeze, just admit you were wrong dude and get on with enjoying your car. :dunno:

EdCT
03-06-2011, 08:46 PM
My car was built in the US? OK, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't I type that I ORDERED the car (I had it built to the specs i wanted)? Didn't I type that I TRACKED it? So, did I imagine the port of departure and the ports of entry? Did BMW lie to me?

Honestly, I'm gonna have to end this right here, because I have issue when I tell someone that "I don't like coffee" and they say "actually you do, you just got tricked by your taste buds". Who else knows what I know? Who can tell me what I've doen and not done other than myself?

Sorry, you're wrong. I don't own an X3. In fact, it's a wonder why you'd say that my Bimmer was built in the US when I don't think I even posted what year or model my BMW is.

Sorry, you're wrong. My 2009 X5 was built and shipped FROM GERMANY. That much ... is a fact.

The year and model of your US-built car appears twice in all your posts ;)

donibm
03-06-2011, 08:52 PM
Some people ask thier sales agent. What I did was ask the agent AND I created an acct on www.bmwusa.com when i purchased mine.

Agents can tell you exactly where your car is during the "Start of Production" and "Production Complete" and "En Route" stages.

EdCT
03-06-2011, 08:57 PM
Some people ask thier sales agent. What I did was ask the agent AND I created an acct on www.bmwusa.com when i purchased mine.

Agents can tell you exactly where your car is during the "Start of Production" and "Production Complete" and "En Route" stages.

Unless BMW set up a special assembly line to build just one car (your car) in Germany, your car was built in South Carolina, along with all other USA X5's.

Again, check your window sticker and vin, it'll reveal your vehicle's country of origin.

captainaudio
03-06-2011, 10:35 PM
Bro, we're talking about a BMW here. Buick Regal isn't even apples to oranges, it's more like apples to ... dog food or something (Buick being the dog food).

I don't own and have never owned a Buick. But aren't they manufactoered by GM? Aren't their 2011 models being built in Canada?

Either way, I honestly don't care, the design is still crap. and there are other European cars that aren't very good either (I know - I'm European), but on the WHOLE, America has nothing on the engineering and design of European cars. Hell, the same can be said for food and clothes (and history, and romantic places, and worth [Euro vs USD]) if we really want to take it there.

ITALIAN pizza
FRENCH bread
PERSIAN rugs
ASIAN electronics
EUROPEAN cars
FORIEGN oil
ancient HISTORY

... and America has ... GMC and a Buick Regal.

I'd import a PEUGEOT before I ever buy a Buick.


http://autogreenmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/peugeot-908hy-1280-1.jpg

CA

02BMW530
03-07-2011, 06:39 AM
No, I am only 20... I didn't buy my BMW new, but in future I plan to... but maybe not anymore. I would rather not pay for a over priced GM. And yes, it is a white propeller spinning through blue sky.

You're not. It's still a BMW. Who cares where it was designed and/or built? Designers and designs are approved through the Vorstand board before entering production anyways.

It makes sense for the X3 to be designed here - we pay next to nothing for gas, everyone wants some form of an SUV and America is the fattest country on the planet and the most demanding market (necessitating certain design elements not ideal for other countries).

No to mention with the dollar being about 75% of the value of the Euro, it's a very smart financial motive to build in America.

By the way, good sir, a large number of GMs are built in Europe as Opels. These are high quality vehicles, very well built and quite popular in Europe across nearly all model genres and following your line of thought, are spectacularly made since they're "Made in Germany." Oh wait, the Buick Regal is one of those.

I guess a whole bunch of BMWs, Mercs, Hondas, Toyotas, et al that are built in the US are just over priced GMs though. By the way, wasn't the Cadillac Catera a re-badges Euro-built GM (hint: it was), how did that work out?

Final assembly is not the important part of a vehicle. However, I will give you kudos on the emblem, according to "Driven", a book that details BMWs history, the logo is white propellers against a blue sky. It also happens to be the colors of the Bavarian flag, but it pays homage to their aircraft engine history.

Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp

02BMW530
03-07-2011, 06:47 AM
Aw holy crap, I just read the rest of this from where I stopped to reply. This thread is so full of ignorance and arrogance.

We should be happy to have among us the ONLY German-built X5, since he ordered it that way.

Man, peoples worlds are shattering everyday in this thread. :D

But at least my car was built in Germany, good ol' Dingolfing. I have a REAL BMW unlike you US-built ones. :D




Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp

02BMW530
03-07-2011, 06:52 AM
My car was built in the US? OK, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't I type that I ORDERED the car (I had it built to the specs i wanted)? Didn't I type that I TRACKED it? So, did I imagine the port of departure and the ports of entry? Did BMW lie to me?

Honestly, I'm gonna have to end this right here, because I have issue when I tell someone that "I don't like coffee" and they say "actually you do, you just got tricked by your taste buds". Who else knows what I know? Who can tell me what I've doen and not done other than myself?

Sorry, you're wrong. I don't own an X3. In fact, it's a wonder why you'd say that my Bimmer was built in the US when I don't think I even posted what year or model my BMW is.

Sorry, you're wrong. My 2009 X5 was built and shipped FROM GERMANY. That much ... is a fact.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_X5_(E70)

Don't trust Wikipedia (though I assure, origin of manufacture is correct on this one)? Feel free to confirm anywhere else. You have a beer-chugging, sister huggin' SC X5 or a vodka guzzling Russian one.

I'll venture a guess and say SC X5s were exported from the US and Russian ones imported into the US. Looks like your taste buds tricked you again. :D


Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp

Elias
03-07-2011, 07:58 AM
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_X5_(E70)

Don't trust Wikipedia (though I assure, origin of manufacture is correct on this one)? Feel free to confirm anywhere else. You have a beer-chugging, sister huggin' SC X5 or a vodka guzzling Russian one.

I'll venture a guess and say SC X5s were exported from the US and Russian ones imported into the US. Looks like your taste buds tricked you again. :D


Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp

Why do you want to burst the guys bubble, if he wants to believe his X5 was built in Germany then let him, its his car, we all know better.:rofl:

02BMW530
03-07-2011, 09:08 AM
Why do you want to burst the guys bubble, if he wants to believe his X5 was built in Germany then let him, its his car, we all know better.:rofl:

We, the owners of "real" BMWs, want to maintain club integrity. We wish to differentiate ourselves from SCMW, South Carolina Motor Works, which aren't true BMWs.

:D


Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp

mhrir
03-07-2011, 10:34 AM
First, this thread started with an opinion that US built BMWs are sacreligious. Hey, its the kid's opinion and that is fine. It is ridiculously narrow and unrealistic, but its just an opinion.

Second, I agree we should let the X5 owner believe it is built in Germany. If believing it is built there is what it takes to want to own it, why burst their bubble? I would rather have that and keep them buying BMWs. So many people choose to belive things that are wrong everyday. Maybe it is a coping strategy.

asindc
03-07-2011, 10:43 AM
This thread is full of entertainment.:)

thumper_330
03-07-2011, 11:25 AM
First, this thread started with an opinion that US built BMWs are sacreligious. Hey, its the kid's opinion and that is fine. It is ridiculously narrow and unrealistic, but its just an opinion.

Second, I agree we should let the X5 owner believe it is built in Germany. If believing it is built there is what it takes to want to own it, why burst their bubble? I would rather have that and keep them buying BMWs. So many people choose to belive things that are wrong everyday. Maybe it is a coping strategy.

Of course, all of this misses the point in my opinion; that BMW has sold out, but not because they build cars in the USA. They sold out years ago and sacrificed driving experience on the altar of profit.

donibm
03-07-2011, 12:10 PM
http://autogreenmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/peugeot-908hy-1280-1.jpg

CA

Naawww man. We couldn't drive that thing on the street, I'm talkingabout this SWEET thing here, the 908:

http://cnettv.cnet.com/paris-auto-show-peugeot-908-rc-concept/9742-1_53-23901.html

donibm
03-07-2011, 12:13 PM
can't delete post

donibm
03-07-2011, 12:30 PM
We can end this now - just post the letters in your vin - it'll reveal country of origin. That is, unless you don't want to know ...:p

X5's are built in Russia or South Carolina, period. It has nothing to do with whether you like coffee or not.

Jeeze, just admit you were wrong dude and get on with enjoying your car. :dunno:

If you could have seen my reaction and my eyes after I got off the phone just now. lol OK, I'm gonna hav to eat humble pie here. You're right (daymmit). And you were right about me not wanting to know too. lol Anyway, I called the sales dept where I brought the car and they actually transferred me to my sales agent. She has a dang good memory. She was like "wait a minute, didn't we have yours built?" Long story short, it does from from Carolina. It's the area within Carolina that threw me off - Stretngburg ... or something like that. Sounds pretty darn forieng to me. lol I was kinda wide eye'd with blank expression when she told me - I couldn't believe it.

I'm gonna sell this piece of **** right now!! :rofl:

... kidding. It's a good car that is still German with German designers and built to German specs (or am I wrong about that too?).

Well, learning something new everyday. Messed up thing is she went right into the spill of "weren't you looking to get an X6 ..." cause I was talking about that about 7 months ago. Dang, she really doesn't forget stuff.

swajames
03-07-2011, 03:54 PM
If you could have seen my reaction and my eyes after I got off the phone just now. lol OK, I'm gonna hav to eat humble pie here. You're right (daymmit). And you were right about me not wanting to know too. lol Anyway, I called the sales dept where I brought the car and they actually transferred me to my sales agent. She has a dang good memory. She was like "wait a minute, didn't we have yours built?" Long story short, it does from from Carolina. It's the area within Carolina that threw me off - Stretngburg ... or something like that. Sounds pretty darn forieng to me. lol I was kinda wide eye'd with blank expression when she told me - I couldn't believe it.

I'm gonna sell this piece of **** right now!! :rofl:

... kidding. It's a good car that is still German with German designers and built to German specs (or am I wrong about that too?).

Well, learning something new everyday. Messed up thing is she went right into the spill of "weren't you looking to get an X6 ..." cause I was talking about that about 7 months ago. Dang, she really doesn't forget stuff.

The facility is at Spartanburg.

It's still an awesome car - all we were trying to say all along is that great cars can indeed be built in the US.

ProRail
03-07-2011, 04:31 PM
If you could have seen my reaction and my eyes after I got off the phone just now. lol OK, I'm gonna hav to eat humble pie here. You're right (daymmit). And you were right about me not wanting to know too. lol Anyway, I called the sales dept where I brought the car and they actually transferred me to my sales agent. She has a dang good memory. She was like "wait a minute, didn't we have yours built?" Long story short, it does from from Carolina. It's the area within Carolina that threw me off - Stretngburg ... or something like that. Sounds pretty darn forieng to me. lol I was kinda wide eye'd with blank expression when she told me - I couldn't believe it.

I'm gonna sell this piece of **** right now!! :rofl:

... kidding. It's a good car that is still German with German designers and built to German specs (or am I wrong about that too?).

Well, learning something new everyday. Messed up thing is she went right into the spill of "weren't you looking to get an X6 ..." cause I was talking about that about 7 months ago. Dang, she really doesn't forget stuff.

No, you're not wrong about that. No matter where they are built, they are built to German specs and German management principles. All the plants and processes are state-of-the art, and BTW are very very green. --(signed) Very old BMW fanboy

captainaudio
03-07-2011, 05:06 PM
Bro, we're talking about a BMW here. Buick Regal isn't even apples to oranges, it's more like apples to ... dog food or something (Buick being the dog food).

I don't own and have never owned a Buick. But aren't they manufactoered by GM? Aren't their 2011 models being built in Canada?

Either way, I honestly don't care, the design is still crap. and there are other European cars that aren't very good either (I know - I'm European), but on the WHOLE, America has nothing on the engineering and design of European cars. Hell, the same can be said for food and clothes (and history, and romantic places, and worth [Euro vs USD]) if we really want to take it there.

ITALIAN pizza
FRENCH bread
PERSIAN rugs
ASIAN electronics
EUROPEAN cars
FORIEGN oil
AMERICAN BMWs
ancient HISTORY

... and America has ... GMC and a Buick Regal.

I'd import a PEUGEOT before I ever buy a Buick.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1ATnOmiGPsQ/SDToNO9RbQI/AAAAAAAADX0/YOg_-xaBghw/s400/eating+crow.gif


Fixed! :rofl:

Kudos to donibm for admitting that he was mistaken :thumbup:

CA

jvr826
03-07-2011, 05:11 PM
This thread is full of entertainment.:)

+1... couldn't... avoid... thread...

AlexK
03-07-2011, 05:22 PM
: popcorn:

EdCT
03-07-2011, 07:35 PM
If you could have seen my reaction and my eyes after I got off the phone just now. lol OK, I'm gonna hav to eat humble pie here. You're right (daymmit). And you were right about me not wanting to know too. lol Anyway, I called the sales dept where I brought the car and they actually transferred me to my sales agent. She has a dang good memory. She was like "wait a minute, didn't we have yours built?" Long story short, it does from from Carolina. It's the area within Carolina that threw me off - Stretngburg ... or something like that. Sounds pretty darn forieng to me. lol I was kinda wide eye'd with blank expression when she told me - I couldn't believe it.

I'm gonna sell this piece of **** right now!! :rofl:

... kidding. It's a good car that is still German with German designers and built to German specs (or am I wrong about that too?).

Well, learning something new everyday. Messed up thing is she went right into the spill of "weren't you looking to get an X6 ..." cause I was talking about that about 7 months ago. Dang, she really doesn't forget stuff.

It's ok, it takes a big man to admit error. There's nothing different about your car than when you bought it - it's still the same machine, it's just that you now know great cars can be made in the US too. ;)

Btw, I've had three BMW's - one made in South Africa, one in Spartanburg and one in Germany; all built to the same high standards.

02BMW530
03-07-2011, 07:53 PM
I'm happy to see you admitted fault (E70 owner) - I'm starting to like you more and more! :D

BMWs are great no matter where they're built.




Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp

TerraPhantm
03-08-2011, 01:15 AM
Of course, all of this misses the point in my opinion; that BMW has sold out, but not because they build cars in the USA. They sold out years ago and sacrificed driving experience on the altar of profit.

Well, if BMW didn't attempt to earn a profit, they probably wouldn't exist today, and we'd all be stuck buying benzes or audis... both of which sacrifice even more driving experience than BMW. BMW still makes some cars that are pretty fun to drive

turtle
03-13-2011, 03:36 PM
I have alot of sympathy for the OP - if you are buying a German car, many would expect it to have been built in a German car factory by German workers using German components etc etc.

But others have posted some valid comments to counter this - globalisation means that successful manufacturers like BMW have to open plants overseas, the motivations for this are complex, they can include to benefit from lower labour costs and to gain access to certain markets. If the build quality does not suffer, why worry?

But I return to the OP's sentiments which appear to be based on wanting their BMW to have been built in Germany. Some [me included] believe that those models built in the home country are better [no offence to american, austrian, south afircan car workers].

Interestingly, the marketeers don't generally seem to like to bring attention to the overseas production of certain models because they understand the kudos of say german/japanese build quality.

mujjuman
03-13-2011, 03:52 PM
Bimmers

Emission
03-13-2011, 04:25 PM
I am going to bring this post back from the dead in a decade... when you guys are driving BMWs assembled in China.

- Mike

AlexK
03-13-2011, 05:04 PM
Some [me included] believe that those models built in the home country are better [no offence to american, austrian, south afircan car workers].


No offense, but I "believe" ;) you should participate more in a religion-oriented (or UFO/conspiracy-oriented) forums rather than car-oriented ones :p

Inline Sixer
03-13-2011, 06:09 PM
If you could have seen my reaction and my eyes after I got off the phone just now. lol OK, I'm gonna hav to eat humble pie here. You're right (daymmit). And you were right about me not wanting to know too. lol Anyway, I called the sales dept where I brought the car and they actually transferred me to my sales agent. She has a dang good memory. She was like "wait a minute, didn't we have yours built?" Long story short, it does from from Carolina. It's the area within Carolina that threw me off - Stretngburg ... or something like that. Sounds pretty darn forieng to me. lol I was kinda wide eye'd with blank expression when she told me - I couldn't believe it.

I'm gonna sell this piece of **** right now!! :rofl:

... kidding. It's a good car that is still German with German designers and built to German specs (or am I wrong about that too?).

Well, learning something new everyday. Messed up thing is she went right into the spill of "weren't you looking to get an X6 ..." cause I was talking about that about 7 months ago. Dang, she really doesn't forget stuff.

:rofl:

This must've been a "Luke, I am your father" -type moment. The bright side you can tell your friends it was shipped from "Spartanburg", it sounds Germanesque enough. Kudos to your enlightened moment and admission. :thumbup:



Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp

EdCT
03-13-2011, 06:20 PM
But I return to the OP's sentiments which appear to be based on wanting their BMW to have been built in Germany. Some [me included] believe that those models built in the home country are better [no offence to american, austrian, south afircan car workers].



I've had three BMW's; one was built in SA (323i), one in SC (Z4 3.0) and my current one, built in Germany.

They were (are) all built to a high standard - any third party components (some 70 percent of the car) are sourced from suppliers using the same specs - in other words, the seats built in South Carolina by whatever company BMW contracts to build them, build the exact same seats as are built by whatever third party company builds the german ones.

You can believe the german-built car is better, for whatever reason, if you'd like.

tagheuer
03-14-2011, 01:39 PM
yes....one has to wonder why BMW doesn't export its Chinese made BMWs to the US for sale....

Is it purely a cost move? BMW should be building its cars in China, Mexico and India. Cheapest possible labor which would maximize profit.

Its much more expensive to build in German with the unionized German employees.

I'm sure none of you would mind buying a Chinese made BMW...

EdCT
03-14-2011, 01:55 PM
yes....one has to wonder why BMW doesn't export its Chinese made BMWs to the US for sale....

Is it purely a cost move? BMW should be building its cars in China, Mexico and India. Cheapest possible labor which would maximize profit.

Its much more expensive to build in German with the unionized German employees.

I'm sure none of you would mind buying a Chinese made BMW...

When I was a kid, during the 60's, made in Japan was analogous to junk - not so much today ;)

Not everything made in China is "junk" either - there are some pretty fine musical instruments and microphones being made there right now, by high end makers no less.

New Volvos are currently manufactured in China, we'll have to see how these hold up.

Emission
03-14-2011, 01:58 PM
yes....one has to wonder why BMW doesn't export its Chinese made BMWs to the US for sale....

Is it purely a cost move? BMW should be building its cars in China, Mexico and India. Cheapest possible labor which would maximize profit.

Its much more expensive to build in German with the unionized German employees.

I'm sure none of you would mind buying a Chinese made BMW...

Well, there is still a quality issue... if quality was equal, there would be no reason to complain about Chinese-made BMWs. I have a US-Made X5, and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Remember the early '90s VW GTI made in Mexico? Quality issues galore.

- Mike

Emission
03-14-2011, 02:01 PM
When I was a kid, during the 60's, made in Japan was analogous to junk - not so much today ;)

Not everything made in China is "junk" either - there are some pretty fine musical instruments and microphones being made there right now, by high end makers no less.

New Volvos are currently manufactured in China, we'll have to see how these hold up.

+1 Exactly.

My old company made beautiful stuff in China. First quality.

iPods are made in China. Nobody seems to be putting up a stink.

- Mike

captainaudio
03-14-2011, 02:49 PM
When I was a kid, during the 60's, made in Japan was analogous to junk - not so much today ;)

Not everything made in China is "junk" either - there are some pretty fine musical instruments and microphones being made there right now, by high end makers no less.

New Volvos are currently manufactured in China, we'll have to see how these hold up.

By the late 60's companies like Canon, Nikon, Pioneer, Sony, etc. put an end to "Made in Japan" being synonomous with cheap, low quality products.

Tom K.
03-15-2011, 08:43 AM
I was happy to own two "American made" Bimmers, a Z3 and a Z4 whose quality equaled that of the German assembled e46, e82 & e91 I've purchased. Just as the 3 Ohio built Honda motorcycles I bought in the 1980s were also of top quality. The only reason I wouldn't buy a current Spartanburg product is my aversion to truck like vehicles (SUVs).

And I notice that after implying that US workers produce an inferior product, the OP hasn't returned to his thread in over a month - troll, perhaps?

Tom

M&K
03-15-2011, 01:06 PM
When I was a kid, during the 60's, made in Japan was analogous to junk - not so much today ;)

Now people talk about Japaese quality and reliability, even though our Nissan was built in TN.

Bad Debt
03-21-2011, 02:38 PM
When Mercedes started building the ML in AL, the build qulity and reliabilty was terrible.

darbyogill
03-21-2011, 02:47 PM
Mercedes could have built the ML at the Utopia Planitia shipyards and quality still would have been abysmal.

Bad Debt
03-21-2011, 02:52 PM
My and my family's experience is that Mercedes makes a far more reliable car than BMW. We have had 2 BMW and at least a dozen Mercedes over the years, the BMW's have had more issues than all the Mercedes combined.