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billome
03-19-2011, 07:01 PM
going to spend 150 dollars on a complete paint detail, machine compounding, machine waxing then three stage wax and clay bar, does the price sound right,

beden1
03-19-2011, 07:39 PM
going to spend 150 dollars on a complete paint detail, machine compounding, machine waxing then three stage wax and clay bar, does the price sound right,

I'd say that is a fair price for a job that takes time, labor and skill. There is a decent detailer near me that charges $260 to do what you listed for the exterior, plus detailing the engine and interior including shampooing the carpets.

hpowders
03-19-2011, 07:53 PM
I will do the same for my 911. The problem is finding a truly outstanding detailer.

Damn love bugs will be here before you know it. :tsk:

afishynado
03-20-2011, 07:21 AM
That sounds like a good price to me.

Does anyone know a good detailer in the Toronto region? My 335 needs some TLC too.

Bill-SD
03-20-2011, 11:55 AM
Sounds a little cheap to me.

Ilovemycar
03-20-2011, 04:15 PM
Sounds a little cheap to me.

I agree (unless this is a family member or long time friend or something).


going to spend 150 dollars on a complete paint detail, machine compounding, machine waxing then three stage wax and clay bar, does the price sound right,

Is the detailer licensed/bonded/insured?

Is he using a dual action random orbital or a rotary (hopefully not unless he knows exactly what the F he is doing)? Then again if it's black, and it's been abused, it very well might need the rotary . . .

BTW, black takes the most work, easily.

So sealant and* the carnauba eh? So, he is planning on returning the next day so that the sealant has time to cure, or was he just going to slap the carnauba on without the sealant being able to cure? :confused:

Washing and claying your own car is soooooo easy. $20 worth of soft clay should last you years. Car wash soap is really cheap, they even sell it at Target. Then with that $150, I would ask only for a compound + polish, from someone who knows what they are doing. Then I'd apply the sealant myself, then the carnauba the next day. You don't need any machinery whatsoever, outside of the hired compound/polish.

$150 for everything, color me extremely skeptical.

thekurgan
03-20-2011, 04:36 PM
Sounds a little cheap to me.

+1, scary :yikes:

Kgolf31
03-20-2011, 04:41 PM
+2.

Search Autopia.net for local detailers.

I charged 250+ for exterior detail when I still did it besides my family cars.

Makita 9227
(3 Step Polish)
Menzerna PG, SIP, 106FF, PO85RD
Meguiars 105/205
(Protection)
Wolfgang 3.0 Sealant
Dodo Juice Hard Candy
Dodo Juice Rainforest Rub

IMO that's on the low end of what I should of been charging. But that's me

billome
03-20-2011, 05:31 PM
this guy is the head of the detailing shop at a large, well regarded shop in the area, my son knows him and i have seen the work that he does, it is going to take a full day and a half and he says it will come back looking like glass, no swirl marks and will last, i am hoping that the work that i have seen him do is a good indication of what i will get...

KLENJ
03-20-2011, 05:43 PM
Sounds very cheap for a black car needing full correction. My quess is he will burn through your clear coat with an aggressive compound and then lay a glaze over the paint and call it a day. At this price you need to take short cuts.

Phil at Detail Domain is one of the top guys in the country, he would charge about $600. to $800. Check out his write ups. I am not saying you need to hire one of the best datailers around and pay top dollar, but you do get what you pay for.

http://www.detailersdomain.com

http://www.detailingbliss.com

pointandgo
03-20-2011, 07:07 PM
I agree (unless this is a family member or long time friend or something).




Is the detailer licensed/bonded/insured?

Is he using a dual action random orbital or a rotary (hopefully not unless he knows exactly what the F he is doing)? Then again if it's black, and it's been abused, it very well might need the rotary . . .

BTW, black takes the most work, easily.

So sealant and* the carnauba eh? So, he is planning on returning the next day so that the sealant has time to cure, or was he just going to slap the carnauba on without the sealant being able to cure? :confused:

Washing and claying your own car is soooooo easy. $20 worth of soft clay should last you years. Car wash soap is really cheap, they even sell it at Target. Then with that $150, I would ask only for a compound + polish, from someone who knows what they are doing. Then I'd apply the sealant myself, then the carnauba the next day. You don't need any machinery whatsoever, outside of the hired compound/polish.

$150 for everything, color me extremely skeptical.

+1
Perhaps being from SoCal, I'm rather anal about detailing and the rep of detailers. I have a short list of detailers who routinely do "show cars" and their prices are well over $150.
Having said that, a true 'SoCal' professional detail will include pulling the wheels and completely cleaning the interior zone, waxing them...and much more (engine compartment for example). Don't go on price alone...check their reputation.

paul_tracyposer
03-20-2011, 08:06 PM
i used to own a detail shop (owner but not expert detailer, i just paid them...:) )

$150 is waayyyy under priced, for my place anyway. It was $100/hr plus materials.....so i would have charged around $250 to $400 for that work, depending on the amount of restoration needed.

get references or if he's a well respected local guy and you can personally attest to his workmanship.....hells yeah....he is undercharging and i'm glad he wasn't in my neighbourhood.

:)

Kgolf31
03-20-2011, 08:17 PM
Get a compiled list of exactly what he is doing and I'll see if he is talking the talk and walking the walk

billome
03-22-2011, 08:02 PM
thanks, i will do this and post soon...

DSXMachina
03-22-2011, 10:54 PM
this guy is the head of the detailing shop at a large, well regarded shop in the area, my son knows him and i have seen the work that he does, it is going to take a full day and a half and he says it will come back looking like glass, no swirl marks and will last, i am hoping that the work that i have seen him do is a good indication of what i will get...

Wayyyy too cheap! Twelve hours labor, shop overhead and materials and profit? Think it through man. Watch out, you may get what you pay for.
If the job takes a shift, which a proper job would, anything less than $250 would make me very suspicious, and even that is short money.

There are many tricks to this trade. One of them is to use filler glazes rather than doing a proper finish buffing. Looks as smooth as glass. For a month. For the kind of money you're talking I'd expect a used car lot fluff and buff.

jmh328
03-23-2011, 08:08 AM
Wayyyy too cheap! Twelve hours labor, shop overhead and materials and profit? Think it through man. Watch out, you may get what you pay for.
If the job takes a shift, which a proper job would, anything less than $250 would make me very suspicious, and even that is short money.

There are many tricks to this trade. One of them is to use filler glazes rather than doing a proper finish buffing. Looks as smooth as glass. For a month. For the kind of money you're talking I'd expect a used car lot fluff and buff.

Absolutely agree here DSX. See my post on my recent detail:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528318

The last post (#13) seemed kind of petty to me. Admittedly, I didn't take care of my car like I should have. So whether my car was 5 mos, old or 5 yrs. old, I felt I needed the detail.
Vanity? I thought that's why we take care of our cars. As I said, the $500 was well worth it.

DSXMachina
03-23-2011, 09:23 AM
Absolutely agree here DSX. See my post on my recent detail:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528318

The last post (#13) seemed kind of petty to me. Admittedly, I didn't take care of my car like I should have. So whether my car was 5 mos, old or 5 yrs. old, I felt I needed the detail.
Vanity? I thought that's why we take care of our cars. As I said, the $500 was well worth it.

It's only a little over ONE PERCENT of the purchase price! Well worth it! It always amazes me how people buy BMWs and then treat them like Hyundais.
Car looks amazingly good and you paid the right price. I used to hang out a lot on the Detailing Forum and some of those guys get two large for paint correction and detailing with multiple waxings. Their work is immaculate and they get a lot of very high end cars. None of their waiting list customers complain about the price.

Nordic_Kat
03-23-2011, 09:39 AM
Absolutely agree here DSX. See my post on my recent detail:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=528318

The last post (#13) seemed kind of petty to me. Admittedly, I didn't take care of my car like I should have. So whether my car was 5 mos, old or 5 yrs. old, I felt I needed the detail.
Vanity? I thought that's why we take care of our cars. As I said, the $500 was well worth it.


There is NOTHING vain about having a little pride of ownership. Knowing exactly what it takes to keep the car looking good inside and out, $500 is very reasonable.

BTW: jh - your car looks great!

neapolitan
03-23-2011, 09:44 AM
It's only a little over ONE PERCENT of the purchase price! Well worth it! It always amazes me how people buy BMWs and then treat them like Hyundais.
Car looks amazingly good and you paid the right price. I used to hang out a lot on the Detailing Forum and some of those guys get two large for paint correction and detailing with multiple waxings. Their work is immaculate and they get a lot of very high end cars. None of their waiting list customers complain about the price.

That's a quite poor counteragument, DSX. I, and many of us, treat my car very well, which is why at 5 months it didn't need a full detail (more or less a $500 one!). One can easily wash and clay by oneself, and unless you've been treating your car like a Hyundai, it shouldn't need 22 hours of work that soon (where are those swirls coming from?). My car still looks exactly like the post-detail pics by that other guy in the photos after I do a wash, wax / seal, and I have spent $0 on professional detailing.

I can easily afford $500 on a car detail, but it is nowhere worth it to me. Most wealthy people don't become wealthy by wasting money. :dunno: You guys have obviously justified it to yourselves, but the other thread begins with some sort of odd advertisement / endorsement, and DSX obviously has a business interest which he takes seriously.

I'm providing a perspective that is quite common, reasonable, and others have supported. YMMV...

jmh328
03-23-2011, 09:46 AM
There is NOTHING vane about having a little pride of ownership. Knowing exactly what it takes to keep the car looking good inside and out, $500 is very reasonable.

BTW: jh - your car looks great!

Thanks Kat.

neapolitan
03-23-2011, 09:53 AM
There is NOTHING vane about having a little pride of ownership. Knowing exactly what it takes to keep the car looking good inside and out, $500 is very reasonable.

BTW: jh - your car looks great!

Vain. ;) What's the going rate in Texas for a wash, polish + wax? I would guess labor would be relatively cheaper near the border, but perhaps not.

jmh328
03-23-2011, 10:16 AM
That's a quite poor counteragument, DSX. I, and many of us, treat my car very well, which is why at 5 months it didn't need a full detail (more or less a $500 one!). One can easily wash and clay by oneself, and unless you've been treating your car like a Hyundai, it shouldn't need 22 hours of work that soon (where are those swirls coming from?). My car still looks exactly like the post-detail pics by that other guy in the photos after I do a wash, wax / seal, and I have spent $0 on professional detailing.

I can easily afford $500 on a car detail, but it is nowhere worth it to me. Most wealthy people don't become wealthy by wasting money. :dunno: You guys have obviously justified it to yourselves, but the other thread begins with some sort of odd advertisement / endorsement, and DSX obviously has a business interest which he takes seriously.

I'm providing a perspective that is quite common, reasonable, and others have supported. YMMV...

Ok, now you really pissed me off :mad: (just kidding)

1. What does the fact that you and others treat their cars well have to do with me not needing a detail after 5 mos? A non sequitor if I ever heard one! And you saw the condition of my car.....when?

2. Being 66 yrs. old with a bad back presents a problem claying, polishing, etc. I'm so glad it's easy for you.

3. I already explained where the swirls came.

4. What you call an advertisement/endorsement was merely an appreciation for good workmanship. Why would you find that odd?

5. The cost of the detail was 1.382%, not including taxes and DMV fees :rofl:

Am finished beating this dead horse. You may continue....I won't.

Nordic_Kat
03-23-2011, 10:26 AM
Vain. ;) What's the going rate in Texas for a wash, polish + wax? I would guess labor would be relatively cheaper near the border, but perhaps not.

Oops! I'll go back and fix that. I wasn't paying attention. ;)

First hand, I wouldn't have the first clue regarding a wash and wax at an outside source. I do know that I can easily spend 9 hours with my PC, claybar, polish, sealant and two coats of Dodowax. I do this twice yearly on a car that's never seen anything but pristine microfiber and my hands. If I had to pay me to do this, to my level of satisfaction, it could easily push into the $700-800 range charged by the top detailer in town.

That being said, my boss thinks he's getting his car "detailed" when he takes it to a local place that does a wash and wax for $75. However, they never touch his wheels (which look like *****) and he only drives refrigerator white cars so he doesn't know he has swirls nor does he care.

ps: The border is still 7 hours away from Houston. :angel:

neapolitan
03-23-2011, 12:12 PM
Ok, now you really pissed me off :mad: (just kidding)

1. What does the fact that you and others treat their cars well have to do with me not needing a detail after 5 mos? A non sequitor if I ever heard one! And you saw the condition of my car.....when?

2. Being 66 yrs. old with a bad back presents a problem claying, polishing, etc. I'm so glad it's easy for you.

3. I already explained where the swirls came.

4. What you call an advertisement/endorsement was merely an appreciation for good workmanship. Why would you find that odd?

5. The cost of the detail was 1.382%, not including taxes and DMV fees :rofl:

Am finished beating this dead horse. You may continue....I won't.

?? looks like I pushed the crazy button! :mad:

Seriously though, I see your point, and you want the best for your baby, but again, that is a *lot* of fancy dinners, an inexpensive vacation, a night in a 5 star hotel, or an iPad that you could have gotten instead.

If you are 66, you may have a completely different perspective in parting with money than those of us younger having to provide for family and the unknown, even if we are wealthy... you may do all the things above already... you may want to support this detail business... for me, however, and venture to guess even most BMW owners, it is excessive. I don't expect everybody to agree with me, but you can't either. ;)

Oops! I'll go back and fix that. I wasn't paying attention. ;)

First hand, I wouldn't have the first clue regarding a wash and wax at an outside source. I do know that I can easily spend 9 hours with my PC, claybar, polish, sealant and two coats of Dodowax. I do this twice yearly on a car that's never seen anything but pristine microfiber and my hands. If I had to pay me to do this, to my level of satisfaction, it could easily push into the $700-800 range charged by the top detailer in town.

That being said, my boss thinks he's getting his car "detailed" when he takes it to a local place that does a wash and wax for $75. However, they never touch his wheels (which look like *****) and he only drives refrigerator white cars so he doesn't know he has swirls nor does he care.

ps: The border is still 7 hours away from Houston. :angel:

Totally... I think one of the key points of the issue is that people that spend that kind of time generally enjoy the process of car care. If you had to pay me to do this to a stranger's Civic, I honestly wouldn't do it for $300/hr, yet I do it to my own. There is a very nice tech in our hospital with whom I am friends who does detailing on very fancy cars on the side for the equivalent of $20 per hour; does an incredible job and he enjoys working on the high end cars. If he didn't do this as a side business he would have to charge much more.

If a shop can charge $500 for a detail and still find customers, all the more power to them, but I would pay anything near that unless it was an exotic.



ps: The border is still 7 hours away from Houston. :angel:

Not if you drive like me... :eeps:

Man Texas is big.

Kgolf31
03-23-2011, 01:10 PM
That's a quite poor counteragument, DSX. I, and many of us, treat my car very well, which is why at 5 months it didn't need a full detail (more or less a $500 one!). One can easily wash and clay by oneself, and unless you've been treating your car like a Hyundai, it shouldn't need 22 hours of work that soon (where are those swirls coming from?). My car still looks exactly like the post-detail pics by that other guy in the photos after I do a wash, wax / seal, and I have spent $0 on professional detailing.

I can easily afford $500 on a car detail, but it is nowhere worth it to me. Most wealthy people don't become wealthy by wasting money. :dunno: You guys have obviously justified it to yourselves, but the other thread begins with some sort of odd advertisement / endorsement, and DSX obviously has a business interest which he takes seriously.

I'm providing a perspective that is quite common, reasonable, and others have supported. YMMV...

Can you take pictures of your paint for me in the sun then? I would love to see a swirl free finish.

Anyways, swirls are always present on new cars. Why? BMW "prep" the car and does a swirl install...for free.

Glock13
03-23-2011, 01:41 PM
I paid $700 for a two-stage correction for the X3 and it was well worth it. The thing I have found is that there are tons of people who say they remove swirls and very few who actually do. I think the sentiments you have received so far are probably right....that sounds very cheap unless you are getting some sort of deal.

pointandgo
03-23-2011, 01:42 PM
You have to define what a "full detail" is. Do you want the engine comartment detailed? Wheels pulled and cleaned? Complete leather treatment? Of course this will influence the final cost. I have the "full treatment" done once per year and less ambitious details done perhaps several times per year. After finding a reliable shop I get a discount.

Live in a geographic area where there's a lot of pollution? Acid rain is still a reality in the Midwest, Northeast. What's the pH of your city/town water? If less than 7, it's acidic and a pH of 5.3 or less would be considered 'acid rain.' In such an area I would pamper the car's finish with greater frequency. On the attached map, I'm in the 'green' area :D

http://www.epa.gov/ne/eco/acidrain/images/phlab09_sm.gif

PS: pH test strips are inexpensive and may usually be obtained at an aquarium shop.

neapolitan
03-23-2011, 04:10 PM
Can you take pictures of your paint for me in the sun then? I would love to see a swirl free finish.

Anyways, swirls are always present on new cars. Why? BMW "prep" the car and does a swirl install...for free.

Sure... taken not too long ago after routine wash. I'll try to find one with a close up zoom where you can see some reflections. Not a single swirl anywhere, but on close inspection it has some serious orange-peel effect. One day I might have somebody do the wet-sanding prep for me; I don't know how or really want to do that myself.

Proper wash technique is key to maintaining a swirl-free finish though. It does take me longer than a standard wash, but not 22 hours nor $500. ;)

When brand new mine had only one or two lines after dealer prep that were easily buffed out.

Ilovemycar
03-23-2011, 06:34 PM
Sure... taken not too long ago after routine wash. I'll try to find one with a close up zoom where you can see some reflections. Not a single swirl anywhere, but on close inspection it has some serious orange-peel effect. One day I might have somebody do the wet-sanding prep for me; I don't know how or really want to do that myself.

Proper wash technique is key to maintaining a swirl-free finish though. It does take me longer than a standard wash, but not 22 hours nor $500. ;)

When brand new mine had only one or two lines after dealer prep that were easily buffed out.

Lemme guess, you've never once done a compound let alone finishing polish, ever, in your life, and you do not own a DA whether a Meguiar's, Flex, or Porter Cable.

One of the regular pro detailers here polishes his Toyota I believe it was 4 times a year.

Wet sanding detail will cost you four figures easy, because you have to compound with additional stages of polishing.

$500 would be a freaking steal for 22 hours. I've done a 20 hour job before, and let me tell you, it is back breaking work when multiple stages of polishing are involved.

I am very close to adding a Flex unit for $310 to my present PC as sometimes I could use to the extra power and bigger orbit distance.

neapolitan
03-23-2011, 08:14 PM
Lemme guess, you've never once done a compound let alone finishing polish, ever, in your life, and you do not own a DA whether a Meguiar's, Flex, or Porter Cable.

One of the regular pro detailers here polishes his Toyota I believe it was 4 times a year.

Wet sanding detail will cost you four figures easy, because you have to compound with additional stages of polishing.

$500 would be a freaking steal for 22 hours. I've done a 20 hour job before, and let me tell you, it is back breaking work when multiple stages of polishing are involved.

I am very close to adding a Flex unit for $310 to my present PC as sometimes I could use to the extra power and bigger orbit distance.

You guess wrong. Did you see my car above? I do agree wet sanding is quite a bit more involved (and dangerous) so I haven't attempted that yet. I would pay somebody fast and competent $15-30 per hour for that, sure. It is not, as they say, rocket science.

Again, if you are able to find people to pay a good amount for your work, great. From my own experience it doesn't take 22 hours to detail a non-abused 5 month old car, and I certainly wouldn't pay $500 for it. You can try to justify your "skills" any way you want, and the market will work it out. :dunno:

Ilovemycar
03-23-2011, 09:35 PM
You guess wrong. Did you see my car above? I do agree wet sanding is quite a bit more involved (and dangerous) so I haven't attempted that yet. I would pay somebody fast and competent $15-30 per hour for that, sure. It is not, as they say, rocket science.

That pic is not revealing at all. :thumbdwn: Overcast? Could be a filler glaze for all I know. Throw up some halogens instead? With the right lighting and at that distance, maybe even just with a $5 bottle of QD could I get a pic to look like yours of my friend's totally abused black paint btw.

So, what, you're saying that pic should instantly be revealing of compound and polish work? :dunno:

By your logic, you must do your own electrical, plumbing, drywall, woodwork, and paint too? I just rebuilt my garage door, using my friend's remodeling account to get a bunch of brackets, tracks, wheels, and enough vinyl to keep dust out, for $100. I borrowed some torsion bars, and used a pipe wrench, with the help of my friend. However, even if it's not rocket science, I totally understand everyone else who pays 1k-1.5, or more for this work to have someone do this for you. Sure it includes the garage door, but that's the only way they do it; same price either way.

Again, if you are able to find people to pay a good amount for your work, great. From my own experience it doesn't take 22 hours to detail a non-abused 5 month old car, and I certainly wouldn't pay $500 for it. You can try to justify your "skills" any way you want, and the market will work it out. :dunno:

It wasn't my point to say that a non abused car of 5 months requires 22 hours. If you read my post, I was saying that a 22 hour job is worth much more than $500, assuming it's a quality job, because of how tough the work is.

TOGWT
03-24-2011, 05:08 AM
It takes us about 8-10 hours to do a 1-2 step paint detail ($45-60 per hour) so depending on location / skill level / /reputation, to transform your vehicle back to ***8216;like-new condition***8217;. A Professional using high quality products may spend over $40 in product use alone; so expect to pay a fair price for the amount of work involved.

Detailing

Exterior (8 hours)

***8226; Wash and dry exterior paint ***8211; 1.5
***8226; Detailer***8217;s clay ***8211; 1.0
***8226; Tyres and Wheel surfaces ***8211; 0.5
***8226; Clean exterior glass ***8211; 0.5
***8226; Clean and lightly polish paint ***8211; 1.5
***8226; Wax or seal paint -1.0
***8226; Clean and protect rubber seals ***8211; 0.5
***8226; Exhaust, tyres and trim etc 1.5 hours

Interior (4.5 hours)

***8226; Brush and Vacuum carpets ***8211; 0.5
***8226; Shampoo mats ***8211; 0.5
***8226; Shampoo / extract carpet ***8211; 1.0
***8226; Clean upholstery ***8211; 1.0
***8226; Apply protection to vinyl and leather ***8211; 0.5
***8226; Clean interior glass -0.5
***8226; Deodorize interior - 10 min
***8226; Protect carpet and upholstery ***8211; 0.5

This level of detail on an average sized and condition vehicle would take approx 13 hours, a larger vehicle will obviously take more time, most professional detailers will charge between $400 and $550 to do this level of work. Depending on location / skill level / /reputation, to transform a vehicle back to ***8216;like-new condition***8217;.

***CCCP***
03-24-2011, 06:59 AM
I don't even regret buying my makita rotary with the detail kit. Spent 700$ on everything did my first detail complete paint restoration. 4 steps. Took me 30+ hrs in a garage. Washed the interior as well engine bay, and all the rims like new. And I have a big car 745 Li. It was my 1st time that's why it took me 30+ hrs I think next time it's gonna take less. And I was pretty happy with the work I've done. Btw I'm only 24 and I own renovation company and I do work with my guys sometimes doing hard work and it's not really as hard on my back as I was detailing my car. 500-900$ is not enough for spending 12 hrs doing that. All I wanna say I have big respect for guys that are detailing cars for living.

Munich77
03-24-2011, 08:21 AM
The price sounds a bit on the cheap side. Good detailers take a lot of time and it is truly an art form. I think about $250-500 would be what I would expect to be paying. You might be getting a friendly discount.

AndrewBigA
03-24-2011, 09:12 AM
I will do the same for my 911. The problem is finding a truly outstanding detailer.

Damn love bugs will be here before you know it. :tsk:

im "outstanding" :p

hit me up! my shop is in queens. :bigpimp:

CGdetailing
03-24-2011, 04:24 PM
price is a little cheap or average depending where you live for a ONE STEP POLISH with no interior clean up or lightly cleaned.