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View Full Version : How do you feel about the new efficient dynamics engines in the 3xx/M3 series?


S4RIN
03-21-2011, 10:02 AM
Read this morning in Car and Driver (http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/10q2/2013_bmw_3-series_rendered-car_news)

"But downsizing is the rage, and while there will still be an inline-six, the majority of 3-series models will be powered by turbocharged four-cylinder engines. The M3 may lose its V-8 and return to a six-cylinder engine, which is likely to be turbocharged"

I had a look at another article and the new N20 engine, which borrows elements from the N54/N55, looks great. A production model was created and available in the X1. 245HP/258lb-ft (You can tap the 258lb-ft at 1,250rpm!!!). You can be sure this will be the new engine of the 328i.

"The four- and six-cylinder diesel engines will be highly efficient, some versions of which could even trump the current 320d EfficientDynamics Edition, which gets an astonishing 53 mpg in the European cycle."

So... I'm excited that the N20 328 will replace the A4 and C350 (300 is no match) engines with ease, making the F30 328 the top choice. I think a heavily turbocharged and tuned i6engine that surpasses the competition and their own current 8 cylinder, is a smart choice for the M3 (especially since the Bi-Turbo and TFSI engines pose serious competition). A very efficient BMW 8-cylinder TwinTurbo will also do the trick. It will be interesting to see what the M division perfects.

What I'm worried about is the 'supposed' 4 banger in the 335. The articles state that they are going for fuel efficiency and efficient dynamics and will try to match the i6 300/300. If they can't exceed the i6's N54/N55 engines, they shouldn't go 4-cyl for the 335. Sales will be impacted.

What do you think of the new engines being introduced in 2012?

P.S Car and Driver reports "Later in 2012, BMW will add a Sport Wagon". Many of you were upset that the wagon era is over, and is being replaced by a GT. Well, it's not if its available in the F30 body style.

david in german
03-21-2011, 10:08 AM
I have the pleasure of owning a 118i 4 door hatch back that will average 44-48 mpg at 80 mph. If BMW releases the ED models in the states, it will be the best move they have made in a decade. I took a test drive today in a 335d and it is safe to say, it will be my next car unless the ED models are released in the next 6-8 months.

hpowders
03-21-2011, 10:12 AM
Great news if "BMW will add a Sport Wagon" in 2012. Hate to see such a fun to drive, practical vehicle eliminated from the BMW line.

I'll believe it when I see it. How many times does one see preliminary reports get changed?

petriej
03-21-2011, 10:16 AM
I have the pleasure of owning a 118i 4 door hatch back that will average 44-48 mpg at 80 mph. If BMW releases the ED models in the states, it will be the best move they have made in a decade. I took a test drive today in a 335d and it is safe to say, it will be my next car unless the ED models are released in the next 6-8 months.

I agree to some extent, but in the US market I think they're relying on the Mini brand to fill that niche.

My colleague owned a 5 door 1-series in Germany, and was disappointed to see what the 1-series is here.

david in german
03-21-2011, 11:02 AM
I agree to some extent, but in the US market I think they're relying on the Mini brand to fill that niche.

My colleague owned a 5 door 1-series in Germany, and was disappointed to see what the 1-series is here.
I also own a 2009 Mini Cooper S and will be the 1st to tell you, if you are looking for an efficient car, the 118 will trump the Cooper any day of the week with efficiency. The Mini will eat the 1 series for lunch performance and fun factor wise though. Luckily my wife said I can keep the Mini when I get the 335d. :thumbup:

ProRail
03-21-2011, 09:44 PM
I'm with the guy hoping for a reasonably priced Sportwagon in NA, hopefully a 320d. Probably not gonna happen.

Yorgi
03-21-2011, 10:24 PM
I am track junkie and I have yet to drive a turbo that I liked. (I instruct so I've pretty much driven them all) Even the slightest amount of turbo lag ruins the enjoyment of taking a corner at the limit for me. Turbos also give you that "being pulled along by a rubber band" feeling vs being fired out of a canon you get with a naturally aspirated engine.

After 7 BMWs in a row I think that's it for me.

hotrod2448
03-22-2011, 11:05 AM
I think the use of turbos is great in certain applications and as long as it is done with reasonable power expectations for a given displacement.

I think about 300-330hp for a direct injection, high compression turbo 4 cylinder engine with a displacement between 2-2.5 liters is close to the max an OEM can provide and still have good drive-ability and reliability.

My first turbo car was an Evo VIII, lots of boost and low compression. It made 270-ish hp stock and was making around 400hp by the time I sold it. It was like the car had a split personality. Off boost it was a slug, once boost came in all hell broke loose. It picked up something like 250 hp in a 500RPM span. Definitely fun but, not something I enjoyed during the stop and go commute to and from work. With DI making it possible to jack the compression back up, that engine probably would have been much more tractable off boost as I'm sure these new BMW 4 cylinders will be.

That said I think I'd still rather have a traditional BMW in line six in mine. I'm not terribly concerned about fuel mileage. I buy these cars because I like to drive and I like how they drive. Sure, being efficient is great but, not at the cost of the cars character/soul in my opinion. People who buy them purely as a means to get from point A to B can take the 4 bangers.

mhs525
03-26-2011, 12:23 PM
I just bought a CPO E65 7, the last of the non turbo V8's. If I buy another BMW it will be the E92 or E46 M3 but I doubt either of those will be comfortable enough to be my daily driver.

I hate the Efficiency Dynamics crap... Sure the less gas I have to buy the better but if mileage was my primary concern I would by a civic. I think BMW is dead wrong to make Efficiency Dynamics the core of its brand. BMW is trying to make a luxury car with no guilt to appease the eco weenies and the multitude of special interest groups they inhabit. It is no longer the "Ultimate Driving Machine". BMW is now the "hey I have a really nice expensive car but you can't be mad at me because it is a really enviornmentally concious luxury car"

I have driven almost every turbo model BMW currently offers and will not buy any of them. They just don't drive the same and there is severe turbo lag when starting from a dead stop.

I'm hoping the V8 Porsche Panamera does really well so there will be plenty coming off lease when it's time to buy my next sedan...

When I bought my first BMW 12 years ago I was amazed, finally a car engineered to be the best at what it does and I thought I was going to be a BMW guy for life. Sadly that is no longer the case. BMW has sold its soul...

02BMW530
03-26-2011, 07:04 PM
Has BMW resolved the HPFP issues in turbo models?

I'd prefer diesel over ED, mountain-pulling torque and 40+ mpg. I've always loved diesels, I fell in love with them when I lived in Germany and it's a shame more can't make it over here.

But, this is the wave of the future. Hold on...


Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp

3ismagic#
03-26-2011, 09:30 PM
I am trying to be optimistic. The TFSI is by all accounts a very good engine. If Audi/VWAG can make a great turbo-4 just think what BMW can do. To me the key to the F30 is keeping the weight down and keeping it from becoming underpowered and fat-arsed. Is it just me or did BMW hire the styling crew from Volvo?

Ryan...
03-26-2011, 10:16 PM
If they go to a FI //M car I'll be done caring about the brand. Honestly, after the e46 M3 absolutely no BMW appeals to me.

hotrod2448
03-27-2011, 10:56 AM
If they go to a FI //M car I'll be done caring about the brand. Honestly, after the e46 M3 absolutely no BMW appeals to me.

You are officially done caring about the brand then.

david in german
03-27-2011, 11:54 AM
I'd prefer diesel over ED, mountain-pulling torque and 40+ mpg. I've always loved diesels, I fell in love with them when I lived in Germany and it's a shame more can't make it over here.


Sent from my iPhone using BimmerApp

So then you are good to go with a diesel ED car like me?:thumbup:

hotrod2448
03-27-2011, 12:42 PM
I am trying to be optimistic. The TFSI is by all accounts a very good engine. If Audi/VWAG can make a great turbo-4 just think what BMW can do. To me the key to the F30 is keeping the weight down and keeping it from becoming underpowered and fat-arsed. Is it just me or did BMW hire the styling crew from Volvo?

I completely agree about them having to get the weight out of these cars if they really want to help the efficiency. The gains in efficiency on today's DI FI gasoline engines has got to be pretty far along the path of diminishing returns. You've already got start/stop, electric power steering, electric water pump, alternator charging only on deceleration, etc... all things trying to decrease parasitic draw on the engine.

There is much more room for improvement in the vehicle itself. Less weight lets you cut hp and use smaller wheels/tires/brakes without decreasing vehicle performance. Lighter chassis/body materials, better aerodynamics, low rolling resistance tires, low friction bearings these things all would have a higher cost to benefit ration in my mind.

thumper_330
03-27-2011, 05:01 PM
If they go to a FI //M car I'll be done caring about the brand. Honestly, after the e46 M3 absolutely no BMW appeals to me.

I dunno... they get the weight down and get rid of the turbo lag (which is definitely theoretically possible... at least reduce it to the point where even the best driver won't notice) then they could make an awesome next generation car. The problem I see with the E9x (since the thread started about the 3'er) is that it's awfully porky compared to its predecessors. Even the E46 lost a lot of its composure to the E36 M3 because of the weight gain. Sure the engines offset a lot of that but there's a lot more to a performance car than going in a straight line. Suspension also has advanced but when you're bordering on needing active roll control on an E9x in order to take it around corners cleanly then you've definitely gone to the wrong end of the weight spectrum.

I think BMW can do a lot with modern electronics... and as much as I sometimes bemoan the fact that the gas pedal these days in cars rarely does much except send a signal to a computer, there's no doubt in my mind that a properly programmed electronic throttle can make a turbocharged car as easy to modulate as a naturally aspirated one.