sedan clears - liability issue?

[Shamrock]

(I already read the other threads on clears)

Got a silver gray '04 330 SP sedan. I know that clears all around will make it "illegal." I'm not too worried about getting stopped. I am worried that if I get in an accident, I might run into liability/fault problems because I modded my car to be out of DOT spec. (no front corner amber reflectors.)

So, if I get in an accident, could the clears be used against me? (I live in PA, if that makes a difference.)

Thanks in advance.

[BlackChrome]

I highly doubt that.

I have been working in the automotive industry for the last 5 years and I have never heard anything like that (and lots of Honda owners have clear lens). IMHO, I think you'll be ok as long as you use amber/orange bulbs for turn signals. Plus, an average Joe probably thinks that BMWs come with clear lens. :)

[LmtdSlip]

(I already read the other threads on clears)

Got a silver gray '04 330 SP sedan. I know that clears all around will make it "illegal." I'm not too worried about getting stopped. I am worried that if I get in an accident, I might run into liability/fault problems because I modded my car to be out of DOT spec. (no front corner amber reflectors.)

So, if I get in an accident, could the clears be used against me? (I live in PA, if that makes a difference.)

Thanks in advance.

Do you work in Risk Management?

[Mohegan29]

(I already read the other threads on clears)

Got a silver gray '04 330 SP sedan. I know that clears all around will make it "illegal." I'm not too worried about getting stopped. I am worried that if I get in an accident, I might run into liability/fault problems because I modded my car to be out of DOT spec. (no front corner amber reflectors.)

So, if I get in an accident, could the clears be used against me? (I live in PA, if that makes a difference.)

Thanks in advance.

I think you are talking about switching out the reflectors on the front bumpers with those prepainted inserts some advertise (with the "offroad use only" disclaimer - yeah right. The answer would probably be yes, to a degreee. Dependingon the situaiton, if they played a role potentially in your car not being visible according to the DOT, then there would be little doubt it would be used against you. How successfully, I don't know.
Walking through the Spartenburg plant at the Z4 produciton plant, the european models don't even have a space for the reflector on the bumpers (which looks better) while the US models do. Also, to my situation, I cannot open my convertible top conveniently with the remote (just the key in the door) while the european models can for liability reasons.
Also, if they ain't packing the car with the reflector triangle in the US cars (the same issue you are asking about...you can assure yourself they aren't taking this risk.

[Shamrock]

On the sedan, the amber reflector is built into the stock amber corner. There is no separate amber reflector. I have a sedan. So when I install a clear corner, I will have no amber reflector on the front corner. Therefor, it will be out of DOT requirements. This has nothing to do with bulb color. So if I get into an accident, can an insurance company hold that against me in an accident?

[Shamrock]

Do you work in Risk Management?

Nope. I'm an advertising writer.

[alpinewhite325i]

(I already read the other threads on clears)

Got a silver gray '04 330 SP sedan. I know that clears all around will make it "illegal." I'm not too worried about getting stopped. I am worried that if I get in an accident, I might run into liability/fault problems because I modded my car to be out of DOT spec. (no front corner amber reflectors.)

So, if I get in an accident, could the clears be used against me? (I live in PA, if that makes a difference.)

Thanks in advance.

I'm from PA as well and I think this is an excellent question; unfortunately I can't answer it. I also have a sedan that I put clears on all the way around.

I know there are plenty of lawyers on this board...come on guys!!

[eelnoraa]

On the sedan, the amber reflector is built into the stock amber corner. There is no separate amber reflector. I have a sedan. So when I install a clear corner, I will have no amber reflector on the front corner. Therefor, it will be out of DOT requirements. This has nothing to do with bulb color. So if I get into an accident, can an insurance company hold that against me in an accident?

I have question about the DOT requirement. As you said, if swap the front corner with a clear one, assumming it is a 02+ sedan, it is will not be legal because of no amber reflector in front. Then what about the pre 02 sedan, going from oem amber to clear, you also lost the amber reflector, why is that legal??

I ask this because it seems clears for 02+ sedan clean is so much more expansive than pre 02 sedan. and I heard the reason is 02+ clear is illegal, so only importor sell them. I just wonder why they are illegal, how is the 02+ different than pre 02.

eel

[eelnoraa]

it's not legal on pre-02's either.

Then why bmw dealer, like circle bmw carries pre 02 clears for sedan and only bekker have 02+ clears for sedan?

I just checked, clear all around for pre 02 cost about $380 at circle, but 02+ at bekker cost $500. I just want to see what happen

eel

[alee]

I have question about the DOT requirement. As you said, if swap the front corner with a clear one, assumming it is a 02+ sedan, it is will not be legal because of no amber reflector in front. Then what about the pre 02 sedan, going from oem amber to clear, you also lost the amber reflector, why is that legal??
http://staff.pop3now.com/alee/bmw/legal

[___lk___]

Then why bmw dealer, like circle bmw carries pre 02 clears for sedan and only bekker have 02+ clears for sedan?

I just checked, clear all around for pre 02 cost about $380 at circle, but 02+ at bekker cost $500. I just want to see what happen

eel

legal kits include a stick-on reflector (yeah, i'm sure EVERYONE puts in on their car) to make it legal..it's not clear lenses that are illegal, it's the lack of a reflector.

cant comment on what parts a given dealer decides to stock

[eelnoraa]

oh, thanks alot

I am very clear now.

eel

[___lk___]

oh, thanks alot

I am very clear now.

eel

Col. Jessup: We follow orders son. We follow orders, or people die. It's that simple. Are we clear?
Kaffee: Yes, Sir.
Col. Jessup: Are we CLEAR?
Kaffee: Crystal.

:)

[Shamrock]

Then why bmw dealer, like circle bmw carries pre 02 clears for sedan and only bekker have 02+ clears for sedan?

I just checked, clear all around for pre 02 cost about $380 at circle, but 02+ at bekker cost $500. I just want to see what happen

eel

(Correct me if I'm wrong.) I think that pre-02 3-series cars, coupe and sedan, took the same clear corner. So you can buy a readily available clear that fits a coupe and stick it on a sedan (although that's "illegal.") Post-02 cars, coupe and sedan, take different corners, so you're paying a premium to import the european corners for the sedan (they only fit the sedan, so they have no "legal" purpose in the US.)

[Thomas Andersen]

From a legal standpoint the fact you have clear lights must have a causal affect on the accident occurring. Thus the plaintiff would have to prove that your clear lights somehow contributed to the accident. Anything is possible in this world, I suppose someone could argue that your lights were not as visible. However the mere fact that you have clear lights or that you are in violation of the vehicle code is not enough. You still need the causation factor.

[cronimi]

From a legal standpoint the fact you have clear lights must have a causal affect on the accident occurring. Thus the plaintiff would have to prove that your clear lights somehow contributed to the accident. Anything is possible in this world, I suppose someone could argue that your lights were not as visible. However the mere fact that you have clear lights or that you are in violation of the vehicle code is not enough. You still need the causation factor.
True, causation would need to be proved in PI or property damage cases, but I think most of the "legality" comments have gone to (1) criminality or (2) insurer liability. As for #1, it appears that, unless you've really pissed off a cop, you're not going to get ticketed. As for #2, though, there is a question as to whether an insurer can deny coverage (for the insured's damage or any other party involved) if the car is not DOT-compliant. I do not have my policy in front of me, but I would not be surprised if compliance with DOT rules and regs, especially ones that are safety-based, is a condition to coverage.

[cronimi]

Col. Jessup: We follow orders son. We follow orders, or people die. It's that simple. Are we clear?
Kaffee: Yes, Sir.
Col. Jessup: Are we CLEAR?
Kaffee: Crystal.

:)
"You can't handle the truth!!"
(Love that courtroom scene) :thumbup:

[Thomas Andersen]

True, causation would need to be proved in PI or property damage cases, but I think most of the "legality" comments have gone to (1) criminality or (2) insurer liability. As for #1, it appears that, unless you've really pissed off a cop, you're not going to get ticketed. As for #2, though, there is a question as to whether an insurer can deny coverage (for the insured's damage or any other party involved) if the car is not DOT-compliant. I do not have my policy in front of me, but I would not be surprised if compliance with DOT rules and regs, especially ones that are safety-based, is a condition to coverage.

[LmtdSlip]

Nope. I'm an advertising writer.

You might have missed your calling....

[Shamrock]

You might have missed your calling....

Nah, I'm just paranoid. :eeps:

[alpinewhite325i]

From a legal standpoint the fact you have clear lights must have a causal affect on the accident occurring. Thus the plaintiff would have to prove that your clear lights somehow contributed to the accident. Anything is possible in this world, I suppose someone could argue that your lights were not as visible. However the mere fact that you have clear lights or that you are in violation of the vehicle code is not enough. You still need the causation factor.

I don't think it's anything to worry about....thanks for the reply!!

[MysticBlue]

Who would even know this? I can't imagine Joe Sixpack Police Officer paying attention to little DOT details like that. I think you would have to get into an accident with the head of the the Dept of Transportation or Joan Claybrook before it would become an issue... plus the causation issue mentioned earlier. Don't sweat the small stuff.

[nzDave]

The dealer gave me little amber reflectors with adhesive backs to stick on my car when I purchased clears for my '00. I think I paid $135 total for corners, sides, reflectors, and a (mandatory) instruction sheet.

I don't have the reflectors on yet, but I was thinking I would either put them on magnets or get some smaller reflective tape or something to pass inspection.

[drkeng]

I doubt that 99% of the people would know the difference between clear and amber lenses. Saw an SL 55 the other day and the rear turn signal looked like a "smoke" color-grey, not clear. Looked very cool. Is this the next "look"? May be worth waiting for.

[kurichan]

Not complying to DOT or state regs on any mod could put you in a weak position if you caused an accident that could be linked to the mod.

Are the chances slim? Probably.

In a worst case scenario though, you are creating significant liability by proactively taking your car out of spec. :(

[dorkus]

Don't sweat the small stuff.

when it comes to anything associated with risk, "not sweating the small stuff" even in the case of a minor technicality is what can end up costing you big time in court, should you be so unfortunate to end up there. it would certainly take some pretty bad luck, but it's within the realm of possibility - all it takes is one bad day... but, it's your risk to take, as long as you're aware of it.

[marcio]

Who would even know this? I can't imagine Joe Sixpack Police Officer paying attention to little DOT details like that. I think you would have to get into an accident with the head of the the Dept of Transportation or Joan Claybrook before it would become an issue... plus the causation issue mentioned earlier. Don't sweat the small stuff.

Yes, on the small stuff like a fix-it ticket, it might not be an issue. On the big stuff like an accident, maybe a fatal accident where a lawyers' expert would be picking the car apart, the lack of the reflector might be an issue.

[330soon2b]

Ohhh. I didn't think about any of these things. Is passing inspection a problem with clears? I just ordered a complete set from Bimmian. Now you guys got me nervous. The clear kit comes with bulbs that look clear, but flash amber.

[operknockity]

Ohhh. I didn't think about any of these things. Is passing inspection a problem with clears? I just ordered a complete set from Bimmian. Now you guys got me nervous. The clear kit comes with bulbs that look clear, but flash amber.
Don't know what the laws are in your state, but here in CA, if I have to, I'll just put back the original front corners so that I have the amber reflectors for the inspection, then swap them out again. The front corners are the easiest parts to install/remove.

[Mysticblue325i]

but here in CA, if I have to, I'll just put back the original front corners so that I have the amber reflectors for the inspectionIn CA, we don't have inspections. I haven't decided if this is good or bad, though.:confused:

[operknockity]

In CA, we don't have inspections. I haven't decided if this is good or bad, though.:confused:
Not entirely true, mein herr! We have "smog inspections" at which time it is possible to check for safety related equipment. Note that those checks are currently NOT performed, but if they change the laws...

(Personally, I think that we should have this type of inspection to get some of the clunkers off the roads!)

[jaks829]

Does anyone know where I can get the 4 piece clear kit for my 99 323i sedan? Having trouble locating the clear trunk lid lights but i can find the back corners with no problem.

[TLudwig]

Let me preface this by saying that this is not legal advice and that I'm not condoning the use of clear corners or other "illegal" modifications to your car's headlights or tail lights.

If you get into an accident, which subsequently proceeds to litigation, and visibility of your car is an issue, then you MIGHT have a problem. Notice the long string of ifs that must transpire in order for this scenario to arise. Cases similar to this have happened. The ones I found in my 15 minutes of research mostly involved those "altezza" lights with white bulbs underneath. People behind them were not aware that the driver at fault was braking. However, that situation is much more extreme than replacing amber or yellow reflectors or lights with clear.

It's hard to imagine how clear, rather than yellow lights or reflectors would truly affect visibility, but such an issue could possibly arise. It would not be determinative of liability, but rather an issue for the jury to consider.

For those of you who say that no one would even know the difference, in a big personal injury case, the lawyers are looking for any leverage that they can get. This probably wouldn't slip past, especially if visibility was an issue in the case.

If it were my car, I'd probably go and and do the clear corners and taillights. The odds are pretty small that (1) you get in an accident, (2) it results in litigation, and (3) visibility is a central issue. And even if these 3 things happen, it would not in and of itself be determinative of your liability.

[EPBB]

Let me preface this by saying that this is not legal advice and that I'm not condoning the use of clear corners or other "illegal" modifications to your car's headlights or tail lights.

If you get into an accident, which subsequently proceeds to litigation, and visibility of your car is an issue, then you MIGHT have a problem. Notice the long string of ifs that must transpire in order for this scenario to arise. Cases similar to this have happened. The ones I found in my 15 minutes of research mostly involved those "altezza" lights with white bulbs underneath. People behind them were not aware that the driver at fault was braking. However, that situation is much more extreme than replacing amber or yellow reflectors or lights with clear.

It's hard to imagine how clear, rather than yellow lights or reflectors would truly affect visibility, but such an issue could possibly arise. It would not be determinative of liability, but rather an issue for the jury to consider.

For those of you who say that no one would even know the difference, in a big personal injury case, the lawyers are looking for any leverage that they can get. This probably wouldn't slip past, especially if visibility was an issue in the case.

If it were my car, I'd probably go and and do the clear corners and taillights. The odds are pretty small that (1) you get in an accident, (2) it results in litigation, and (3) visibility is a central issue. And even if these 3 things happen, it would not in and of itself be determinative of your liability.

TLudwig,

Thank you for this FANTASTIC description. It has led me at ease regarding some of the concerns I have had (may I say, many of the readers of this form as well?) with installing clears on each respective owner's BMW. Based on your descriptions, I am going to go ahead and order my clears from bimmian.com, since they include the solaris bulbs which emmit the yellow light, and therefore, do not have the same problem as the "altezzas" in your description. I will however, install a small yellow piece of reflective tape, just to protect me from such litigation.

On a side note, would you have anything to say regarding removing those god awful yellow child safety stickers on the sun deflectors that warn you of putting a child in the front seat? I have seen some posts on DIYs on how to remove those, but I'm curious to know your thoughts...

Thanks in advance,

~ E

[jetstream23]

You could also keep the "stick-on" reflectors in your glove compartment just in case you needed to stick them on the bumper expo-facto. :dunno:

[PhilH]

I was considering changing my clear front blinkers back to stock ambers because of the liability issue and because I kind of like a little yellow in the front of the car. While I was busy pondering whether or not to switch, my mom backed into my car while I was parked in her driveway, thoughtfully just clipping the turn signal and breaking the lens. I now have my stock amber front blinkers back in. :rolleyes:

[cwsqbm]

TI don't have the reflectors on yet, but I was thinking I would either put them on magnets or get some smaller reflective tape or something to pass inspection.

Just carry them with and stick them on after the accident. :p

[JonathanIT]

While I was busy pondering whether or not to switch, my mom backed into my car while I was parked in her driveway, thoughtfully just clipping the turn signal and breaking the lens. I now have my stock amber front blinkers back in.
Which of course she probably wouldn't have done if you had the amber/reflector stock assembly in them to begin with, right? ;)

Seriously, that sucks... sorry you're Bimmer took a hit. My mom backed into my car in the back of her house last year too... fortunately it was NOT the 330cic but my daily beater a '93 Toyota Previa. Left a huge dent on the side... but she fixed it and got the whole car painted at the same time, so it looks even better now. Aren't Moms great?

Although I'm especailly careful when I take the Bimmer over there now! :D

--J.

[PhilH]

Left a huge dent on the side... but she fixed it and got the whole car painted at the same time, so it looks even better now. Aren't Moms great?
Yeah, she left a small scratch on the bumper too, and she offered to have the bumper repainted and pay for a new set of front clears. I'll probably have the bumper touched up by a professional with touch up paint since the scratch is so small. I don't think I'm getting new front clears. :dunno:

I agree, moms are great. It was hard to be too mad at her, especially since the reason she was hurrying out of her driveway was to get me some medicine because I was sick that day.

[jetstream23]

I was considering changing my clear front blinkers back to stock ambers because of the liability issue and because I kind of like a little yellow in the front of the car. While I was busy pondering whether or not to switch, my mom backed into my car while I was parked in her driveway, thoughtfully just clipping the turn signal and breaking the lens. I now have my stock amber front blinkers back in. :rolleyes:

I think I'd like a little yellow/amber in the front as well but not the complete amber corner that is on there now. I think I'll go "half way" by installing the clear corners but leaving the amber bulbs in there. I think having a little amber in there would prevent any potential police hassle (if there were to be any) since its not a complete "white out". I think this is called the egg yolk look. Isn't the egg yolk look what comes standard on the E46 M3?

[PhilH]

I think I'll go "half way" by installing the clear corners but leaving the amber bulbs in there. I think having a little amber in there would prevent any potential police hassle (if there were to be any) since its not a complete "white out".
That's what I did. Yellow bulbs in the front, Silvervision bulbs for the rear (and some silver painted bulbs from bimmian.com for the side markers). It looked nice, but I kind of like the front ambers blinkers too. I almost wish I could modify the stock amber blinkers and cut the amber part in half...that would leave some amber reflector to be legal, but it would be less than stock...eh, I think I'm OK with the stock ambers up front. :loco:

[mbushnell]

Don't know what the laws are in your state, but here in CA, if I have to, I'll just put back the original front corners so that I have the amber reflectors for the inspection, then swap them out again. The front corners are the easiest parts to install/remove.

That is what I plan to do when I go for my first inspection in December, 2006 on my car here in NJ.

I guess that I could get around that by going to a private garage for the inspection, but why spend $70 to $80 at a private garage, when you don't have to pay at the state inspection station (your registration fee & taxes pays for it).

[Staszek]

Its illegal, yes, does it matter much, probably not as long as your still flashing amber, seems cops are definetly more upset about blue and hyper white flashers then anything else.

I have had clears on since i bought my sedan in 2000, have gone through the NJ DMV inspection and passed with no problem, they never even noticed it and they are SUPPOSED to be looking for it.

I wouldnt worry to much

[Shamrock]

Yep, almost a year after I originally posted this thread... Now I've got clears on my silver-gray sedan. No worries and it looks MUCH better than amber. I think some richer colors looker better with amber though, like imola red and some of the darker blues. The popping color works. But the monotone look with silver is hot.

[e46zhp]

Don't know what the laws are in your state, but here in CA, if I have to, I'll just put back the original front corners so that I have the amber reflectors for the inspection, then swap them out again. The front corners are the easiest parts to install/remove.

agreed.

[Artslinger]

Why does DOT require amber reflectors?

[jetstream23]

Why does DOT require amber reflectors?

Because on the sedan the front corner turn signals which are amber also serve as reflectors. When you replace the amber corners with clear ones you lose the reflector functionality.

On the coupes there are separate amber reflectors lower on the front bumper corners (which some people also replace with body-colored pieces) so the coupes don't have the reflector built into the corner turn signals.

[Artslinger]

Well maybe if it is a safety issue... clears are not safe by DOT standards.

Is vanity worth the risk to other drivers?

[magbarn]

What I don't understand is, how come BMW has to go to a higher standard when many cars from the factory today don't really seem to comply with these DOT standards. A prime example is this 2005 Camry (see attached) which is quite ubiquitous. A case can be made for the TINY little amber piece integrated into the front lights, but if you notice the rear, other than the bulbs, has no amber at all. There is also no reflector on the rear bumper such as the E60.

[dcrocker]

What I don't understand is, how come BMW has to go to a higher standard when many cars from the factory today don't really seem to comply with these DOT standards. A prime example is this 2005 Camry (see attached) which is quite ubiquitous. A case can be made for the TINY little amber piece integrated into the front lights, but if you notice the rear, other than the bulbs, has no amber at all. There is also no reflector on the rear bumper such as the E60.

I believe the DOT requirement is only that there be an amber reflector in the front.
It looks to me like the camry complies with this. As far as I understand, there is
not such requirement for the back of the car.

[jetstream23]

Well maybe if it is a safety issue... clears are not safe by DOT standards.

Is vanity worth the risk to other drivers?


Clears are safe according to DOT as long as you have reflectors on the front of your car. The coupes sold in the U.S. have clear corners.

[jetstream23]

I believe the DOT requirement is only that there be an amber reflector in the front.
It looks to me like the camry complies with this. As far as I understand, there is
not such requirement for the back of the car.

:stupid: My understanding as well.

[FenPhen]

What I don't understand is, how come BMW has to go to a higher standard when many cars from the factory today don't really seem to comply with these DOT standards. A prime example is this 2005 Camry (see attached) which is quite ubiquitous. A case can be made for the TINY little amber piece integrated into the front lights, but if you notice the rear, other than the bulbs, has no amber at all. There is also no reflector on the rear bumper such as the E60.Rear markers are required to have red reflectors and red reflectors only. The reflectors are built into the red section of the taillights, and sometimes, supplementary red reflectors are added. The rear turn signals light amber and can be colored amber or clear, but they are not supposed to reflect.

Front markers have to have a non-red reflector. In California, the front corner can reflect amber or white. I really don't know how the federal DOT requirement of amber applies to owners/aftermarket as opposed to direct from the manufacturer.

The reason for the uniform reflector color requirements is to indicate the orientation of the car. When light shines on the front corner of the car, you'll see amber (or white), and if it's the rear of the car, you'll see red.

[KingLemmiwinks]

I highly doubt that.

I have been working in the automotive industry for the last 5 years and I have never heard anything like that (and lots of Honda owners have clear lens). IMHO, I think you'll be ok as long as you use amber/orange bulbs for turn signals. Plus, an average Joe probably thinks that BMWs come with clear lens. :)

I though all the automotive jobs were in Michigan and Illionis. What part of the car do you work on out there? What company if you don't mind me asking.

[MadBMW]

On the sedan, the amber reflector is built into the stock amber corner. There is no separate amber reflector. I have a sedan. So when I install a clear corner, I will have no amber reflector on the front corner. Therefor, it will be out of DOT requirements. This has nothing to do with bulb color. So if I get into an accident, can an insurance company hold that against me in an accident?

Funny i just bought a wrecked e46 328i from PA on ebay... It had the clears all the way around with amber bulbs. The owner did not have any problem getting his insurance money.

I would agree that the average Joe wouldnt know what the hell is really on a BMW. Most claim adjusters ive met (from my friends accedents) drive affordable high gas milage cars (like hondas) from all the driving. lol.

I think the DOT has alot more important things to do then regulate the millions that have clear courners.

[Silver328i]

Can't you just use a yellow bulb? My old Chevy Caprice has clear original GM turn signal lenses but yellow bulbs, as does our 2001 Ford Ranger. And the clear lights I have seen for E36's have yellow bulbs in a kit, or strongly suggest you use yellow bulbs. And for rear clear ones, just use a red bulb.

[tom busby]

If you violate a traffic safety law and are in an accident as a result (i.e., causation must still be proved) it is called "negligence per se" because the injured party is (or can assert he is) in the category of people the law was designed to protect.

IMO silver and grey cars don't look better with clears. Clears look great on black, blue or red cars. Just my 2 cents.

[Iniquity]

Funny i just bought a wrecked e46 328i from PA on ebay... It had the clears all the way around with amber bulbs. The owner did not have any problem getting his insurance money.

I would agree that the average Joe wouldnt know what the hell is really on a BMW. Most claim adjusters ive met (from my friends accedents) drive affordable high gas milage cars (like hondas) from all the driving. lol.

I think the DOT has alot more important things to do then regulate the millions that have clear courners.


Along these lines...

Yes, if you got into an accident.. someone could argue that it was difficult to see you because you didn't have amber reflectors up front (seems like many people miss this fact about coupes and their clears, they have amber reflectors stuck onto the front bumper)..

however, like the above story/quote says... if the insurance agent/cop/"victim of the accident" notices you're missing 2 small amber reflectors up front that would mean 3 things:

1. that insurance agent wouldn't be a field agent, he'd be the boss of the company..
2. the cop is a super sleuth detective who watches CSI too much and therefore, wouldn't waste his time with traffic violations.
3. the "victim" would be such an observant driver, he/she would have been able to avoid you anyway


It reminds me of when people asked about using ZKWs in their e36's and worried about getting pulled over by cops.. seriously.. my answer for that, if a cop can tell the difference and pulls you over for it.. he deserves to give you the ticket...