staggered sizes or not

[jh]

i've got the sport pack setup in a 330Ci -- 225/45/17 (7.5x17) front 245/40/17 (8.5x17) rear.
It seems to me, upgrading to 18s, it would be better to use 225/40s all around... that the setup would induce less understeer than fat sticky tires in the rear. doesn't seem to me the car needs that extra rear wheel stick with the 3.0 engine.
Comments? Real world experience with 225s all around?

Also BBS 17 & 18 inch seem to lack sufficient offset (38 vs 47 stock). Again, personal experience, or Tire Rack input?

[///MDex]

i've got the sport pack setup in a 330Ci -- 225/45/17 (7.5x17) front 245/40/17 (8.5x17) rear.
It seems to me, upgrading to 18s, it would be better to use 225/40s all around... that the setup would induce less understeer than fat sticky tires in the rear. doesn't seem to me the car needs that extra rear wheel stick with the 3.0 engine.

Or, you could just run 235 17s all around. And hey, don't sell that 3 liter short. That is a great engine with potential :)

[Moderato]

Can anyone else vote on this? I'm thinking about going to 225/45/17's all around on 17x8" BBS RGRs. Currently I have the staggered M68 setup. Would I be breaking the rear wheels loose all the time with 225s on the back, especially considering that the BBS wheels are about 5 - 7 lbs lighter a rim then the M68s???

[Pinecone]

How do you drive? Is the traction control kicking in a lot? Have you ever felt terminal understeer in your car? Do you trail brake and can you feel the rotation or lack thereof when you do? Do you autocross?

Basically if you have to ask, you should keep the stagger.

You will be fine with the stagger. I run the stock staggered setup on my E46 M3 on the street. The E36 LTW runs staggered wheel sizes with equal sized tires all around.

I run differnt set up at the track or for autocross. Track on the E46 M3, rain - stock wheels (staggered) 245 fronts, 265 rears on street tires. Dry - BBS RKs, same rim width front and rear, but with different offsets, 265s all around. Autocross on the LTW, Kosei K-1s with 245 Hoosiers all around. But in both cases loosing it is a LOT less likely to cause major damage than doing so on the street.

[wrwicky]

Terry's answer is very thoughtful. My simple answer is no you will not be breaking the rears loose all of the time. Think about the standard 330i with 17x7 and Contact Sports (low grip).

Although lighter wheels have less inertia and could be broken loose with throttle easier, the tire will have a least as much grip and the net accelleration will be the same or better after the DSC does it's thing.

Personally, I'm old school and think that RWD cars with some power handle best with a little more tire in the rear. So I like the staggered setups.

Regarding fit, I think Tirerack will warn you if a fitment is aggressive. There are no warnings for the RG Rs so they are probably rub free in either size.

Those RG-Rs seem like a great wheel to me.

[kyfdx]

Can anyone else vote on this? I'm thinking about going to 225/45/17's all around on 17x8" BBS RGRs. Currently I have the staggered M68 setup. Would I be breaking the rear wheels loose all the time with 225s on the back, especially considering that the BBS wheels are about 5 - 7 lbs lighter a rim then the M68s???

Breaking the tires loose seems to have more to do with the tire itself than the stagger. I put M68s on my 325i with Pilot Sports and they kick in the traction control more now than when I had the Turanzas on the stock 17" style 96s.

IMO, most moves to 18" tires are good for cosmetics only. Pick whatever looks the best and will cost the least. I doubt you will notice any improvement and probably won't notice any degradation (although this is more likely) in performance.

Me personally? I think the M68s are the best looking option you can get, and you already have them? You could make an argument for style 71s, but I would stick with what you have. (I'm biased)

regards,
kyfdx

[Pinecone]

Gogin to larger wheels with the same overall tire diameter will typically increase handling and make the turn in crisper due to the shorter sidewall.

The shorter sidwall will tend to ride harsher.

The bigger wheel will tend to slow acceleration.

TANSTAAFL

[Moderato]

Breaking the tires loose seems to have more to do with the tire itself than the stagger. I put M68s on my 325i with Pilot Sports and they kick in the traction control more now than when I had the Turanzas on the stock 17" style 96s.

IMO, most moves to 18" tires are good for cosmetics only. Pick whatever looks the best and will cost the least. I doubt you will notice any improvement and probably won't notice any degradation (although this is more likely) in performance.

Me personally? I think the M68s are the best looking option you can get, and you already have them? You could make an argument for style 71s, but I would stick with what you have. (I'm biased)

regards,
kyfdx


I agree with what your saying here. I love the M68's too. I'm thinking about getting another set of rims because I need a set for winter wheels. So I figured if I was going to spend 800 or so for a set of winter rims I'm not crazy about, why not put that money towards a set of lightweight summer wheels like BBS or something and then use my M68's for winter but this whole staggered or not issue makes this a hard decision. I'm not sure if I'm going to like the BBS wheels as much as the M68's and that's why I'm really having a hard time making a decision, and then there's the whole staggered issue. I have to dwell on this for a while. :confused:

[wrwicky]

...So I figured if I was going to spend 800 or so for a set of winter rims I'm not crazy about, why not put that money towards a set of lightweight summer wheels like BBS or something and then use my M68's for winter but this whole staggered or not issue makes this a hard decision. I'm not sure if I'm going to like the BBS wheels as much as the M68's and that's why I'm really having a hard time making a decision, and then there's the whole staggered issue. I have to dwell on this for a while. :confused:
Seems very reasonable to me. A lot of guys talk about the understeer from stagger like it's all wrong. When Car and Driver labeled the M3 the best handling car in the world, it was BECAUSE it had some degree of understeer at the limit which makes the car more comfortable to push. Lot's of cars in that comparo were more neutral It's a little slower for autocross, but works as good or better than anything out in the world or even on a road course. So, if you like stagger and you don't autocross a lot, get staggered wheels. If you love the 68s, get those, they're reasonably light and pretty tough.

I too will have a tough time deciding between a nice set of used M68s or RG-Rs when I want get something lighter than my M135s and then there is the whole cleaning issue (maybe GT7s). Enjoy whichever choice you make and remeber it's only stuff.

[Moderato]

Seems very reasonable to me. A lot of guys talk about the understeer from stagger like it's all wrong. When Car and Driver labeled the M3 the best handling car in the world, it was BECAUSE it had some degree of understeer at the limit which makes the car more comfortable to push. Lot's of cars in that comparo were more neutral It's a little slower for autocross, but works as good or better than anything out in the world or even on a road course. So, if you like stagger and you don't autocross a lot, get staggered wheels. If you love the 68s, get those, they're reasonably light and pretty tough.

I too will have a tough time deciding between a nice set of used M68s or RG-Rs when I want get something lighter than my M135s and then there is the whole cleaning issue (maybe GT7s). Enjoy whichever choice you make and remeber it's only stuff.

I already have the M68's, so if I get the BBS RGR they only come in 17x8 and 17x9, so the tires I have now will fit just fine on the 17x8 fronts, but I thought the 17x9 rim might be a little too wide for the 245/40/17s in the back. I know others have told me they will fit but I have to see them in person. I don't like it when the rim sticks out further then the tire. I could go with 255/40/17 which would match the diameter of the 225/45/17 almost exactly (it would be slightly larger) as opposed to the 245/40/17 which is 1.x % smaller then the 225/45/17 fronts, but I'm not sure if I want to go with the 255s.

I know that the staggered setup is supposed to create understeer, but I have to say I haven't noticed it yet. There are some high speed turns around that would make my STi start to understeer, but the 330i understeers just slighty if I don't have any throttle in it, if I take the turn with throttle the 330i seems wonderfully neutral. Maybe if I autoXed the car I would notice different, but what about at high speeds perhaps the stagger is a beneficial thing.

I should probably just keep the stagger and use my Conti's on the BBS RGR, but then if I use my M68's for winter wheels I will have to put 225's on the rear rims and even though they can fit it's still a stretch and I'm not sure if I want to do that, blizzak makes LM-22 in 245/40/17 but I'm not sure if I want to do that either (i might) since I will only be taking the car out in light snow and only when I have to since I have a Subaru Outback for a winter beater. I was thinking about getting a set of M68's off the internet just keeping the fronts from that set and selling the rears and then putting the 17x7.5's all around on 225's.

Either way this is going to be $$$$$ so I want to make damn well sure I love the BBS-RGR in the configuration I get and that, they look perfect to me on the car or else the whole cycle begins again. I think the BBS-RGRs are great looking rims, but they have more of a "racer" look to them then the M68s do and I'm not sure if I will like that on the 330i sedan. One of the reasons I got rid of my STi was that I don't have time to AutoX right now (job & 2nd child). I got tired of all the attention from kids & police in the STi, so I sold it and got the 330i for a sporty car, but definitely more stealthy. I'm not sure if the BBS will make the car look more "race-y" and bring some of that unwanted attention back. Maybe I should just keep the M68s for my summer wheels and stick to the original idea and get a cheapo set of winter rims on narrower tires which will be more cost effective, however I can't get the idea out of my head that the BBS-RGR at 5 pounds or so lighter then the M68s' will handle, accelerate, and stop better then the M68s and even get a couple MPG extra. This is such a hard decision. :confused:

[kyfdx]

Assuming you actually buy new wheels for summer tires....

I would sell the m68s and buy some used 325i sport pkg wheels for your snows. My guess is you can get about $200-300 more for the M68s than you will pay for style 96s, 119s or 44s. All of those wheels are 17 X 8 and would work great with winter tires. But, you can't get the LM22s in 225/45-17. They are only available as runflats in that size.

The style 44s are especially prevalent and cheap, but the 119s are the best looking and the style 96s aren't too bad. The style 96 keep the brake dust on the inside of the wheel a lot better than the M68s.. Not as open, I guess.

I just wouldn't try to run winter tires on the M68s... too many issues.

regards,
kyfdx

[Pinecone]

My $0.02.

I would drive the HECK out the car this summer. Buy winter tires and put them on your current wheels come winter. Then next spring order the BBS wheels with some AWESOME summer tires. :)

But selling your current wheels for some basic wheels has merit also. But again, I would think about waiting until next fall to commit.

[Moderato]

My $0.02.

I would drive the HECK out the car this summer. Buy winter tires and put them on your current wheels come winter. Then next spring order the BBS wheels with some AWESOME summer tires. :)

But selling your current wheels for some basic wheels has merit also. But again, I would think about waiting until next fall to commit.

I was thinking about doing this also, this is great advice.

Of course.......Would my stock conti's really be shot after 6 months though, if not it would be kind of a waste. If I went with the staggered setup on the BBS wheels I could just transfer the conti's over to them, I just wish I could see what they look like first. The rear M68's are 17x8.5 and the 245/40/17 tires I have on them now look perfect, I think a 17x9 rim would stick out further then the tire and I wouldn't like that, plus I don't think that would be good handling wise right? I could go with 255/40/17 on the rear, but that would be about 1.7% larger in diameter then the tires I have now, although they would more closely match the 225/45/17 fronts. Plus I have to admit that I really like the M68s. :rofl:

[Pinecone]

I was thinking about doing this also, this is great advice.

Of course.......Would my stock conti's really be shot after 6 months though, if not it would be kind of a waste. If I went with the staggered setup on the BBS wheels I could just transfer the conti's over to them, I just wish I could see what they look like first. The rear M68's are 17x8.5 and the 245/40/17 tires I have on them now look perfect, I think a 17x9 rim would stick out further then the tire and I wouldn't like that, plus I don't think that would be good handling wise right? I could go with 255/40/17 on the rear, but that would be about 1.7% larger in diameter then the tires I have now, although they would more closely match the 225/45/17 fronts. Plus I have to admit that I really like the M68s. :rofl:

Trust me, you CAN use up those tires in 6 months. Tiem to start tracking and autocrossing. ;)