PDA

View Full Version : BMW GT owners are no ship of fools.


Capobranco
05-26-2011, 08:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ket-ndpxhPg

BMWNA has cast us off as a ship of fools

GT owners are no ship of fools, more a band brothers [and sisters]***8211;
In our quest for truth justice and the BMW GT Way, we encounter vociferous too-quick-to-judgment opinions from our fellow BMW enthusiasts. Moreover, many have found the path to the GT in spite of the onslaught of misinformation and confusion from dealers.
And now we have the statement from the CEO of BMWNA which is at best self-serving yet displays a wonton if not hostile attitude to the BMW GT that undercuts not only the GT but also present owners.

Am I annoyed? Way! I could be moved to buy an Audi***8230;.........maybe two ***8211;
I spent last night at my local Porsche Audi store ***8211; and revisited my BMW dealership too ***8211; seeking out alternatives. Bottom Line ***8211; the 5 GT is totally unique ***8211; as GT owners - we know this ***8211; nothing comes close to the GT's luxury, utility, performance, and panache. The closest alternative was the Panamera at a higher price point ***8211; sportier but offering far less utility and luxury ***8211; I guess there is a "substitute." As an artist, I can make the case for either in terms of styling and design, but prefer the GT. This A.M., at my garage in DC, two very pretty 20-somethings approached me and declared "your car is tight***8230;...can we try out the back seat?" - I smiled.

As owners of GTs, I am sure you get your share of compliments ***8211; the only rocks that are thrown are by our fellow BMW 'festers ***8211; the very people who bemoan not having a 5 Touring option yet when offered never bought them ***8211; the same people who talk about 6 speeds but order automatics ***8211; you get the pic ***8211; "screw 'em."

For my needs and desires, I reassert the 5GT is truly sui generis, [--venting!] BMWNA ought to revisit the Promo vid for the GT ***8211; "when was the last time you did something for the first time." - it's true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EASENP0Qp2E

tturedraider
05-26-2011, 08:39 PM
Agreed. The GT is a misrepresented, misunderstood gem. To know it is to love it.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Bimmer App

mason
05-26-2011, 08:46 PM
No doubt, GT is an unique car. You don't get an apple v apple comparison easy. Meanwhile, GT needs to make plenty improvements as well.

Capobranco
05-26-2011, 09:36 PM
No doubt, GT is an unique car. You don't get an apple v apple comparison easy. Meanwhile, GT needs to make plenty improvements as well.

Precious little approaches perfection...

BMWNA has an exceptional product in the GT as presently constituted and needs to sell it and stop making self-serving excuses. There are no direct competitors to the GT - the GT represents an extraordinary marketing opportunity - wasted.

dunderhi
05-26-2011, 09:41 PM
"screw 'em."


And you wonder why we give "you" a hard time? :tsk:

Capobranco
05-26-2011, 10:10 PM
And you wonder why we give "you" a hard time? :tsk:

....that's the best kind :rofl:

innerloop
05-27-2011, 10:12 AM
I'm not sure its to anyone's benefit to foster a "us vs. them" mentality about this, or to elevate the GT to some sort of mythical "perfect" status. I think we can all agree no car is perfect, and GT shares some of the imperfections of both the F10 and F01 cars. So I'd vote to keep hyperbole in check.

The GT is obviously doing very well in Europe. So one thing you could say about GT owners is that they share tastes and preferences with those on the other side of the Atlantic. I don't think most would find that to be a bad thing at all. I don't think the GT is going away as a part of the BMW lineup world-wide, but its future in North America is certainly questionable.

Here's an interesting question to ask yourself: What if the F07 was NEVER released in the North American market, and was only offered in Europe or elsewhere?

I think we all know that the reaction on forums like this would be; there would be a petition to demand BMWNA to bring it over here. There would be thread after thread about how the US drivers are being denied the awesome deal of the 7-series at a 5-series price, or about how we are getting screwed out of all that cargo space, or the technology of the dual liftgate. Think about it, you know its true.

Let's face it, we want most what we can't have. Now that we can't have the Touring Wagon, folks bitch and moan about that. But where were all those posters when they were buying cars? Not buying wagons in North America, that's for sure.

One can certainly sympathize with BMW under these conditions.

dalekressin
05-27-2011, 10:19 AM
GT is not for me. I test drove it and I liked it.
I see it as a very handy car for some.
BMW knows the sales & service numbers better than I do.

psmatharu2011
05-27-2011, 11:33 AM
BMW's marketing sucks...i have yet to see one print ad for the GT...I loved my GT but when the CEO comes out and bash's the car it kills my desire to get another one. I think I might cancel my order and go to Benz...

11gt535
05-27-2011, 12:55 PM
The way the BMWNA is acting, it's as if they never wanted to import the F07 and were forced to. So they aren't interested in, don't put the effort into it. Then it "fails" (which really could mean anything including what someone else would call success). BMWNA gets the outcome they expected/wanted. I could be wrong... I've just seen that management pattern too often.

Capobranco
05-27-2011, 04:31 PM
I'm not sure its to anyone's benefit to foster a "us vs. them" mentality about this, or to elevate the GT to some sort of mythical "perfect" status. I think we can all agree no car is perfect, and GT shares some of the imperfections of both the F10 and F01 cars. So I'd vote to keep hyperbole in check.

The GT is obviously doing very well in Europe. So one thing you could say about GT owners is that they share tastes and preferences with those on the other side of the Atlantic. I don't think most would find that to be a bad thing at all. I don't think the GT is going away as a part of the BMW lineup world-wide, but its future in North America is certainly questionable.

Here's an interesting question to ask yourself: What if the F07 was NEVER released in the North American market, and was only offered in Europe or elsewhere?

I think we all know that the reaction on forums like this would be; there would be a petition to demand BMWNA to bring it over here. There would be thread after thread about how the US drivers are being denied the awesome deal of the 7-series at a 5-series price, or about how we are getting screwed out of all that cargo space, or the technology of the dual liftgate. Think about it, you know its true.

Let's face it, we want most what we can't have. Now that we can't have the Touring Wagon, folks bitch and moan about that. But where were all those posters when they were buying cars? Not buying wagons in North America, that's for sure.

One can certainly sympathize with BMW under these conditions.

Hyperbole? :)

I agree that many ***8220;enthusiasts***8221; are contrarians by nature. Moreover, their pleas at times sound like the lock stepped mutterings of a Greek Chorus. Finding the perfect balance of tradition and innovation is an art - a needle that BMW must thread carefully.

As to GT owners sharing tastes with Europeans ***8211; I suspect so ***8211; personally, I have lived my entire life in both worlds. My Florentine partners, who live in the art/design world, are wildly enthusiastic about the GT. A luxury 5 door is not an alien concept to most Europeans. I agree that the future of the GT is questionable, not only because of the disparity of what Europeans v. Americans deem to be good, but also because BMWNA has never found the will to effectively market the GT in NA.

If I were BMW I would be furious with the management of BMWNA. The GT is a squandered opportunity.

Capobranco
05-27-2011, 04:45 PM
BMW's marketing sucks...i have yet to see one print ad for the GT...I loved my GT but when the CEO comes out and bash's the car it kills my desire to get another one. I think I might cancel my order and go to Benz...

I have the same reaction …I already went to the PorscheAudi Store – I am open to possibilities. However - bottom line – I really like the 5 GT – dynamically and aesthetically. There really is no substitute - the 5 GT is sui generis - I know - overused but accurate. Maybe if I continue to repeat it - BMWNA will believe it.

The way the BMWNA is acting, it's as if they never wanted to import the F07 and were forced to. So they aren't interested in, don't put the effort into it. Then it "fails" (which really could mean anything including what someone else would call success). BMWNA gets the outcome they expected/wanted. I could be wrong... I've just seen that management pattern too often.


Bingo :thumbup:– Precisely – As I said in a prior post – the statement by BMWNA appears to be a duplicitous self serving preemptive strike to deflect the short comings and lack of results of BMWNA. Moreover, BMWNA lack of leadership becomes a self fulfilling prophesy - wise sages those marketing gurus at BMWNA.

I too have seen this management pattern before and it’s corrosive to personal and corporate integrity - I hope it is not true.

magnumforc
05-27-2011, 04:51 PM
Each vehicle is, by nature, individualistic and appeals to certain individuals in much the way as a suit of clothes. I may dislike the look of a sharkskin suit and think it "50's ish" but ask one of my Italian friends and they will think it's the greatest suit they have ever seen. Not that they are interested in the suit, but the personal expression that the suit implies. A well cut Brooks Brothers says a lot about your status, but in brown it won't be the hit of the spring seson. Individuality is what sells.

The GT is similar. First glance to me was it's overblown, ugly rear end, much like a fat lady raising her skirt and trying to waddle off to the next corner. But one drive told me it was much more, a car for all seasons and reasons, not so much the ultimate BMW we all love, but maybe the ultimate "do everything pretty darned well" BMW we could love. It's not an M3, or a roadster nor has the capacity of the Touring in my opinion. But it does everything they do in some form that satisfies what i need it to d. And while doing so, bring stares and questions and admiration from others. After all, it's a different BMW.

I was at the local BMW dealer today and they have none in stock. Special order only. One X6 available for 81K and numrous 750IL for 101-104K So what do we have. A vehicle with the capability of the X6 but with lots more headroom, the platform and ride of the 750 at 30-35K less coins, (I have the xDrive) and a very versatile vehicle overall.

BMW will not please everyone with this or any other vehicle. I have friends with 7 series who wish they had kept their 5's and those with 5's who lust after 7's. When I had my 328, I wished for a bit more room. Test driving the X5 I knew it just wasn't what I wanted to drive every day. And the X6 wasn't practical with only 4 seats.

For the fun of it...Just imagine an "M" version of this vehicle! Even for those of us who love the car, that seems absurd.

car-fan
05-27-2011, 05:54 PM
Personally, I feel no need to make any excuses for the GT. Simply because none are needed. There isn't a replacement for this car at this price point period. Now if Mr. O'Connell wishes to back track by saying he wishes that the Touring was still offered in this market, and that the GT has crossed over (excuse the pun) and pilfered sales from its conservative brother the 7 Series so be it. Perhaps I misinterpreted the statement as he didn't outright bash the GT, I understood him to state that the "intended" demographic i.e. former touring owners and those who may be wagon conquests from other brands didn't work out. So the GT captured the eyes of 7 Series buyers (The Flagship of BMW's core brand) in the process. 7 Series buyers are typically a sophisticated bunch who usually demands unmitigated luxury. I knew from day 1 that the GT would create some cross over appeal with 7 Series buyers - because again it is a "7" right down to the wheel base dimensions.

At the end of the day if they pull the plug on the GT I don't care, as long as components remain available through the parts pipeline for issues that hopefully will not present themselves I am good.

I like the way the GT looks, drives, feels - Survey Says - "Very Satisfied" . Not to mention knowing a "same size" F01/F02 7 Series configured like my car would cost roughly $105-110K, I especially like the discount:thumbup:

Maybe I should offer my assistance to the sales force with marketing the GT. I think I could move some units - BMW ARE YOU LISTENING? I am an ECM consultant by trade, but I would be willing to help out LOL:)

Capobranco
05-27-2011, 07:05 PM
Each vehicle is, by nature, individualistic and appeals to certain individuals in much the way as a suit of clothes. I may dislike the look of a sharkskin suit and think it "50's ish" but ask one of my Italian friends and they will think it's the greatest suit they have ever seen. Not that they are interested in the suit, but the personal expression that the suit implies. A well cut Brooks Brothers says a lot about your status, but in brown it won't be the hit of the spring seson. Individuality is what sells.

The GT is similar. First glance to me was it's overblown, ugly rear end, much like a fat lady raising her skirt and trying to waddle off to the next corner. But one drive told me it was much more, a car for all seasons and reasons, not so much the ultimate BMW we all love, but maybe the ultimate "do everything pretty darned well" BMW we could love. It's not an M3, or a roadster nor has the capacity of the Touring in my opinion. But it does everything they do in some form that satisfies what i need it to d. And while doing so, bring stares and questions and admiration from others. After all, it's a different BMW.

I was at the local BMW dealer today and they have none in stock. Special order only. One X6 available for 81K and numrous 750IL for 101-104K So what do we have. A vehicle with the capability of the X6 but with lots more headroom, the platform and ride of the 750 at 30-35K less coins, (I have the xDrive) and a very versatile vehicle overall.

BMW will not please everyone with this or any other vehicle. I have friends with 7 series who wish they had kept their 5's and those with 5's who lust after 7's. When I had my 328, I wished for a bit more room. Test driving the X5 I knew it just wasn't what I wanted to drive every day. And the X6 wasn't practical with only 4 seats.

For the fun of it...Just imagine an "M" version of this vehicle! Even for those of us who love the car, that seems absurd.

I see many 2010 7 Series withering on the vine even though they come equipped with $15K - $20K discounts. I guess Jimmy O' Donnell needs to find a scapegoat...can we say 5GT.

5 GT M? - aka Porsche Panamera Turbo Challenger...absurd - maybe, outrageous - yes, but definitely - sublime. Yeah - they might sell two but I would be number one of two!

BTW - 5 GT M might be a perfect for a guy thats been there, done that and has the tee shirt with the bullet holes to prove it!

Capobranco
05-27-2011, 09:08 PM
Personally, I feel no need to make any excuses for the GT. Simply because none are needed. There isn't a replacement for this car at this price point period. Now if Mr. O'Connell wishes to back track by saying he wishes that the Touring was still offered in this market, and that the GT has crossed over (excuse the pun) and pilfered sales from its conservative brother the 7 Series so be it. Perhaps I misinterpreted the statement as he didn't outright bash the GT, I understood him to state that the "intended" demographic i.e. former touring owners and those who may be wagon conquests from other brands didn't work out. So the GT captured the eyes of 7 Series buyers (The Flagship of BMW's core brand) in the process. 7 Series buyers are typically a sophisticated bunch who usually demands unmitigated luxury. I knew from day 1 that the GT would create some cross over appeal with 7 Series buyers - because again it is a "7" right down to the wheel base dimensions.

At the end of the day if they pull the plug on the GT I don't care, as long as components remain available through the parts pipeline for issues that hopefully will not present themselves I am good.

I like the way the GT looks, drives, feels - Survey Says - "Very Satisfied" . Not to mention knowing a "same size" F01/F02 7 Series configured like my car would cost roughly $105-110K, I especially like the discount:thumbup:

Maybe I should offer my assistance to the sales force with marketing the GT. I think I could move some units - BMW ARE YOU LISTENING? I am an ECM consultant by trade, but I would be willing to help out LOL:)

Having had the honor of joining you in combat on a number of occasions on the E90 and F/10 Forums ***8211; you know I do not make excuses - as you say - simply because none are needed. The opposition comes ill armed with misinformed opinions based on hearsay ***8211; we offer personal experience and facts. Easy ***8211; fun wins.

The O***8217;Donnell statement ***8211; he controlled the timing and the message content ***8211; he knew the implications of what he said and what he did not say. Do you hear a further statement offering support and/or clarification from BMWNA? I take the silence as being ominous. I clearly recognize the scenario ***8211; go on the offensive and attribute your failure to everything or anyone except yourself ***8211; man needs to be fired.

Marketing the GT? I am very confident that I know how to market the GT, and I would be successful. I could have a basic outline for discussion purposes prepared within 30 days ***8211; and a fully developed plan ***8211; ready to implement within 90 days ***8211; I have done this. BMWNA could have employed a credible plan but they lacked vision and commitment. The results are manifest.

car-fan
05-28-2011, 09:48 AM
Having had the honor of joining you in combat on a number of occasions on the E90 and F/10 Forums – you know I do not make excuses - as you say - simply because none are needed. The opposition comes ill armed with misinformed opinions based on hearsay – we offer personal experience and facts. Easy – fun wins.

The O'Donnell statement – he controlled the timing and the message content – he knew the implications of what he said and what he did not say. Do you hear a further statement offering support and/or clarification from BMWNA? I take the silence as being ominous. I clearly recognize the scenario – go on the offensive and attribute your failure to everything or anyone except yourself – man needs to be fired.

Marketing the GT? I am very confident that I know how to market the GT, and I would be successful. I could have a basic outline for discussion purposes prepared within 30 days – and a fully developed plan – ready to implement within 90 days – I have done this. BMWNA could have employed a credible plan but they lacked vision and commitment. The results are manifest.

I am with you 100%:thumbup:

I received a survey from BMW NA when I initially took delivery of the GT over a year ago, I wonder how many owners they polled, and what they did - if anything - with the results.

Capobranco
05-28-2011, 10:57 AM
I am with you 100%:thumbup:

I received a survey from BMW NA when I initially took delivery of the GT over a year ago, I wonder how many owners they polled, and what they did - if anything - with the results.

word! :thumbup:

I value your comments and amity.

I feel like we are moving deck chairs on the Titanic...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_D-pHGonSYyA/SlK_tACvN1I/AAAAAAAAB3s/17E0Z_2yhPY/s400/Titanic+Deck+Chairs.jpg

...I'm going to enjoy the ride on the way down....:drive:

http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/titanic1.jpg

I hope all of this is just so much BMW/Fester smoke ...

Good news - the other night when I checked out the Panamera again - I got a figure on my car - the wholesale value continues to do OK - actually much better than a similarily priced 2010 550i. I am surprised given the weak sales for the GT that the wholesale numbers have not collapsed - probably due to BMW not flooding the market with cars in NA - there are not many used cars around - a ray of sunlight?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3498/3306960042_3af83643b1.jpg

car-fan
05-28-2011, 03:05 PM
word! :thumbup:

I value your comments and amity.

I feel like we are moving deck chairs on the Titanic...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_D-pHGonSYyA/SlK_tACvN1I/AAAAAAAAB3s/17E0Z_2yhPY/s400/Titanic+Deck+Chairs.jpg

...I'm going to enjoy the ride on the way down....:drive:

http://www.scholarsandrogues.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/titanic1.jpg

I hope all of this is just so much BMW/Fester smoke ...

Good news - the other night when I checked out the Panamera again - I got a figure on my car - the wholesale value continues to do OK - actually much better than a similarily priced 2010 550i. I am surprised given the weak sales for the GT that the wholesale numbers have not collapsed - probably due to BMW not flooding the market with cars in NA - there are not many used cars around - a ray of sunlight?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3498/3306960042_3af83643b1.jpg

LOL! Stay away from those Porsche/Audi dealers they don't have anything for you at this price point. Want more fun go see your local DINAN rep for a remap. Then you will really be like a bank vault after the time lock initiation - closed and sealed to anything from the outside.

I went to the Audi dealership with a friend of mine who drives a Maserati Quattroporte, and asked him for his unbiased opinion on a fully loaded Prestige/Innovation equipped A7 with an MSRP of $81,350. He liked the exterior of the A7 but also likes the GT. However, interior space, amenities, etc, he felt the A7 can't compete. We Gt'ers already know this, and its obvious within the Audi line you would have to look at an A8 to compare. And personally for my 81K I want a little more than a 310hp v6 under the hood.

If the supply becomes sparse its only going to create demand for the GT. So unless you dislike your GT for some reason, there is no reason to part ways with it.

Just My Two Cents of Course!:bigpimp:

darbyogill
05-28-2011, 03:10 PM
:eek:

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

dunderhi
05-28-2011, 06:14 PM
Good news - the other night when I checked out the Panamera again - I got a figure on my car - the wholesale value continues to do OK - actually much better than a similarily priced 2010 550i. I am surprised given the weak sales for the GT that the wholesale numbers have not collapsed - probably due to BMW not flooding the market with cars in NA - there are not many used cars around - a ray of sunlight?


The F07 has a higher resale than the E60 550i one year after the E60 was discontinued! I guess it would be really sad if this wasn't the case.

BMW normally groups the F07/F10/F11 together under the 5 Series designation in their monthly sales reports, but in their March sales report the GT sales numbers were revealed. It looks like the F07 is selling much better worldwide than in North America. BTW, it looks like the F01 sales are still strong.

March 2011 worldwide sales
F01: 5,803
F07: 2,272
F10/11: 28,682

Capobranco
05-28-2011, 10:57 PM
The F07 has a higher resale than the E60 550i one year after the E60 was discontinued! I guess it would be really sad if this wasn't the case.

BMW normally groups the F07/F10/F11 together under the 5 Series designation in their monthly sales reports, but in their March sales report the GT sales numbers were revealed. It looks like the F07 is selling much better worldwide than in North America. BTW, it looks like the F01 sales are still strong.

March 2011 worldwide sales
F01: 5,803
F07: 2,272
F10/11: 28,682



Agreed. Thank you for posting the numbers.

As we all know depreciation can be substantial on BMWs especially higher end models. Given the number of cars coming into the system and coupled with aggressive BMW incentives on new cars (e.g. subsidized interest rates), I would anticipate that the F/10 will follow the current trend. (NADA predicts depreciation of $20K for year one on a 2011 550i driven 15K miles). Whatever***8230;... a few thousand here or there ***8211; there is a cost to driving high end cars especially if driven a lot of miles. Given the paucity of sales of the F/07 in the US, and the less than positive comments from Jim-Bo, I was concerned that resale values of the F/07 might have tanked ***8211; not the case.

As posted on cars.com there are still 53 2010 F/01s available ***8211; discounted $15K-$20K in the DC area (deep into F/07 territory). Nationally there are 810 2011s and 855 2012s available ***8211; big numbers to move. There are no 2010 F/07s ***8211; 59 2011 550i GTs and 81 535i GTs. I understand O'Donnell's concern that the F/07 has eroded F/01 sales in important markets ***8211; indeed the contagion could spread as savvy people familiarize themselves with the F/07. Moreover, the F/07 has not attracted the touring buyer. It would appear that O'Donnell's short term solution is to limit the potential damage by limiting the number of F/07s in the US ***8211; if you want an F07 you pretty much have to order one to get the right equipment, obviously special ordered cars do not come with $15K discounts. Moreover in the short term, why sell F/07s in NA to people who do not understand the GT when we can sell them in other receptive markets.

BMW put a huge amount of content into the F/07 ***8211; indeed you can outfit an F/07 with more luxury amenities than an F/01 at a substantial discount. Even cars less lavishly equipped compare very favorably to the F/01 ***8211; I see the potential problem. Personally I was never particularly attracted to the 7 series ***8211; I crossed shopped a Panamera. I have owned many nice cars. I consider my 550i GT to be especially nice - offering a unique blend of performance, luxury, utility and value. The F/07 has no direct competitor.

The solution to the F/07 in NA will continue to allude BMWNA, if the GT is viewed as a touring alternative or a budget 7 series. Rear guard actions or discount plays are non starters and will be self defeating. BMWNA needs to reacquaint itself with its own propaganda ***8211; "the 5 gran turismo ***8211; the first of its kind". BMW endowed the GT with the right stuff. The GT is in front of the market in NA. The F/07 needs to be allowed to carve out its own market which is not the F10 or F/11 market - indeed, the 5 series branding sows confusion. Strategically - the foundation of a marketing solution recognizes and builds on the unique DNA of the F/07 - there are a myriad of niche tactics.

As to the GT market? "I drive, therefore I am."

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/content/vehicles/2010/5/5GranTurismoExplore.aspx#startpage

Capobranco
05-28-2011, 11:46 PM
LOL! Stay away from those Porsche/Audi dealers they don't have anything for you at this price point. Want more fun go see your local DINAN rep for a remap. Then you will really be like a bank vault after the time lock initiation - closed and sealed to anything from the outside.

I went to the Audi dealership with a friend of mine who drives a Maserati Quattroporte, and asked him for his unbiased opinion on a fully loaded Prestige/Innovation equipped A7 with an MSRP of $81,350. He liked the exterior of the A7 but also likes the GT. However, interior space, amenities, etc, he felt the A7 can't compete. We Gt'ers already know this, and its obvious within the Audi line you would have to look at an A8 to compare. And personally for my 81K I want a little more than a 310hp v6 under the hood.

If the supply becomes sparse its only going to create demand for the GT. So unless you dislike your GT for some reason, there is no reason to part ways with it.

Just My Two Cents of Course!:bigpimp:

+1

Porsche/Audi? - been there - done that -
I am tempted by a Panamera - but I like my 550i GT -

The A7 - yes it is slick in an Audi-like manner but the A7's utility
is severely compromised - seems way over priced and in the end leaves me cold -
you'll find me in the Porsche line before I spend $80K for an A7.

BTW - a friend of mine recently bought a Maserati GT - nice car - he also shares
my opinion concerning the A7 and BMW GT -- something about Maserati drivers?

dogguyX3
06-01-2011, 06:23 PM
...As to the GT market? "I drive, therefore I am."

I've never accepted criticism from strangers,
except when I get wonderful advice.
Then, instead of telling them "mind your own Business!"
I thank them for minding mine.

Monday Morning Quarterbacks are a dime a dozen,
but with your plethora of
sound course-righting recommendations,
BMWNA should be sending you a Big Fat Bonus. :dunno:

I got my X3 because I wanted a small UTE, and something fine.
Never expecting it to really be a driver's car, I sought the
big tent I perceived sheltered and welcomed all who heard the call to
Roundel and the Ultimate Driving Experience.
I was thinking the GT could be a great step up for me.

Is the tent getting bigger or smaller? --and is it a Circus?:eek:

Capobranco
06-02-2011, 08:15 PM
I've never accepted criticism from strangers,
except when I get wonderful advice.
Then, instead of telling them "mind your own Business!"
I thank them for minding mine.

Monday Morning Quarterbacks are a dime a dozen,
but with your plethora of
sound course-righting recommendations,
BMWNA should be sending you a Big Fat Bonus. :dunno:

I got my X3 because I wanted a small UTE, and something fine.
Never expecting it to really be a driver's car, I sought the
big tent I perceived sheltered and welcomed all who heard the call to
Roundel and the Ultimate Driving Experience.
I was thinking the GT could be a great step up for me.

Is the tent getting bigger or smaller? --and is it a Circus?:eek:

Dog ***8211; you are very generous ***8211;

I think you have to be very passionate about the GT given the attitude of BMWNA. I am not sure, if anyone knows what lies ahead for the GT concept in NA. If you decide to purchase a GT - be prepared for negative comments from your fellow festers. At times, you might feel like a mutant pariah, but you can take solace in the knowledge that you are an independent pioneer in front of the market. Moreover, I promise you, in the wild, you will receive many compliments ***8211; the GT elicits many favorable comments and thumbs up
***8211; if this is important to you.

Given the less than sanguine attitude towards the GT by BMWNA, and by many BMW enthusiasts, who tend to be dominated by traditional notions of what should constitute a BMW - I***8217;m not sure if the BMW tent will ever be ever be more than grudgingly accepting of
unconventional new concepts like the GT. The GT is a brilliant product but it needs corporate support to be allowed to define its own market niche. The lack of a positive proactive campaign on the part of BMWNA is not only a self fulfilling expediency, but a significant lost opportunity.

magnumforc
06-02-2011, 10:51 PM
I suppose it's the theorum of an independent thinker and his vehicle. Do you want what the hoardes want or what moves you individually? For me, my life has revolved around cars. Perhaps it should have been the other way around, but from my earliest days watching my father completely tear down a flathead engine in the garage, through drag racing C Gassers, and Super Stock as well as plain old factory stock racers, I've always had some sort of automotive oddity in the garage. Some were absolutely stunning, some just god-awful fast and some just plain-jane looking that could take the newest Corvette or Jag and eat it for lunch. Sleepers they were called. We laughed at anything that didn't have at least 400 HP under the hood, many of us having had to pull home friends with Saab's, Volvo's and other assorted foreign cars of the period with the complex and temperamental carburetion systems. Yet the BMW marque was one that always seemed solid and unflappable.

Then came my love affair with the BMW's. Solid, beautifully built, a status symbol if you will. Driving into the parking garage with a new BMW said you had risen above the mundane. No matter the model, you joined an elite group, that suddenly recognized your impeccible taste in fine automobiles. It was not the price, rather the choice of make, that set you apart from the mainstream.

The GT is obviously an anomaly, one that BMWNA has failed to adequately market to the American public. In fact, looking at the commercials and print ads here in California, all I see are the 3 series pushed for lease ($379-399) and occasionally a 5 series lease. Oh, and I mustn't forget the splash that a 528 is enroute later on (may be here already?) for a lease payment of about $600 a month. Hmm. othing ever on the GT. Even the X6 is lost in the advertisers ink, although we do see more of them than the GT's.

If the GT doesn't continue as a production model, it would be a shame. One of the best values BMW has put on the market in years considering the platform, etc. As might be attributed to Detroit, when a better idea comes along, leave it to the manufacturer to somehow screw it up either in production or marketing and watch it languish! Maybe BMW is learning from the American automakers? That would be catastrophic!

car-fan
06-03-2011, 07:59 AM
I suppose it's the theorum of an independent thinker and his vehicle. Do you want what the hoardes want or what moves you individually? For me, my life has revolved around cars. Perhaps it should have been the other way around, but from my earliest days watching my father completely tear down a flathead engine in the garage, through drag racing C Gassers, and Super Stock as well as plain old factory stock racers, I've always had some sort of automotive oddity in the garage. Some were absolutely stunning, some just god-awful fast and some just plain-jane looking that could take the newest Corvette or Jag and eat it for lunch. Sleepers they were called. We laughed at anything that didn't have at least 400 HP under the hood, many of us having had to pull home friends with Saab's, Volvo's and other assorted foreign cars of the period with the complex and temperamental carburetion systems. Yet the BMW marque was one that always seemed solid and unflappable.

Then came my love affair with the BMW's. Solid, beautifully built, a status symbol if you will. Driving into the parking garage with a new BMW said you had risen above the mundane. No matter the model, you joined an elite group, that suddenly recognized your impeccible taste in fine automobiles. It was not the price, rather the choice of make, that set you apart from the mainstream.

The GT is obviously an anomaly, one that BMWNA has failed to adequately market to the American public. In fact, looking at the commercials and print ads here in California, all I see are the 3 series pushed for lease ($379-399) and occasionally a 5 series lease. Oh, and I mustn't forget the splash that a 528 is enroute later on (may be here already?) for a lease payment of about $600 a month. Hmm. othing ever on the GT. Even the X6 is lost in the advertisers ink, although we do see more of them than the GT's.

If the GT doesn't continue as a production model, it would be a shame. One of the best values BMW has put on the market in years considering the platform, etc. As might be attributed to Detroit, when a better idea comes along, leave it to the manufacturer to somehow screw it up either in production or marketing and watch it languish! Maybe BMW is learning from the American automakers? That would be catastrophic!


I concur you speak the truth:thumbup:

In addition to all of the inherent qualities of the GT, I really love the sleeper effect - especially now;)

If the GT is discontinued it would most assuredly be for the North American market only. It would only to serve to make this rare car even rarer - and I am totally okay with this. That being said, if you notice it appears more people are coming online with recent GT delivery's.

I may be one of the few - outside of seeing the GT at a car show - who ordered a GT with total confidence, and 'WITHOUT" a test drive. Quite simply I knew I would like the car.

Capobranco
06-03-2011, 03:56 PM
The GT is obviously an anomaly, one that BMWNA has failed to adequately market to the American public. In fact, looking at the commercials and print ads here in California, all I see are the 3 series pushed for lease ($379-399) and occasionally a 5 series lease. Oh, and I mustn't forget the splash that a 528 is enroute later on (may be here already?) for a lease payment of about $600 a month. Hmm. othing ever on the GT. Even the X6 is lost in the advertisers ink, although we do see more of them than the GT's.

If the GT doesn't continue as a production model, it would be a shame. One of the best values BMW has put on the market in years considering the platform, etc. As might be attributed to Detroit, when a better idea comes along, leave it to the manufacturer to somehow screw it up either in production or marketing and watch it languish! Maybe BMW is learning from the American automakers? That would be catastrophic!

Is the problem with BMW or with BMWNA?

BMW has a history of experimentation especially regarding new design concepts that have created their own discrete niche market segments, and have often been copied by competitors in the past. BMW created a stunning product in the 5GT that is truly in a class by itself – a good marketer’s dream. In turn, BMWNA has done a very poor job defining the GT concept to both dealers and consumers. My dealer, who does substantial volume, did not understand the car – I had to take the lead role in the sale -a surreal experience. Even on forums like Bimmerfest – confusion and misinformation rule.

As I previously stated, if I were BMW I would be furious. BMW spent a bunch of money to create a new ground breaking niche product. Moreover, BMW is deep in the development of new variations – 3GT and 1GT. Within this context, the CEO of BMWNA tells BMW that they should not have dropped the Touring and that the GT is hurting F/01 sales. HELLO – the 5 GT is not a touring – if you were BMW would you want the GT to be a Touring substitute – given the Touring could only manage less than 1000 units a year. No - the GT is a brilliant product that has the capacity to define its own niche – BMW sees it – I see it - but BMWNA offers inane non-sequitur excuses instead of doing their job – that is – marketing BMWs in NA.

venting…..

dunderhi
06-03-2011, 05:53 PM
... given the Touring could only manage less than 1000 units a year.

Yeah, less than 1000 cars sold in the USA in the last year of production of the E61 platform as a single variant only. The E61 has only been sold in the US as single variant (six cylinder AWD) and the US sales peaked at 2350. With four variants it would have be reasonable for BMWNA to expect 8,000 units per year with a fresh new platform like the F11. Of course there's a history unimpressive wagon sales in the US in recent years, so it would then be reasonable for a revolutionary vehicle to make a measely 8,000 sale per year. BMW had what I thought was an impressive advertising campaign when the GT was introduced. There was enough buzz that even my wife thought she had to check it out. So, the GT is now selling four variants in the US with a fresh platform, but only managed 2840, or 710 cars per variant. I thnk there is dissappointment on BMW NA's behalf, but I'm not sure if the sales are so low that they would stop importing the GT. Think about it, the six series has never had huge sales numbers, but no one is worried at the six going away.

Capobranco
06-03-2011, 06:17 PM
I may be one of the few ... who ordered a GT with total confidence, and 'WITHOUT" a test drive....

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=280607&stc=1&d=1307146555

car-fan
06-03-2011, 11:09 PM
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=280607&stc=1&d=1307146555

LMAO:rofl:

I think all of the other German makes have more aggressive marketing campaigns than BMW - then again I guess you can say "collectively" VAG comes to mind - they are larger too. Audi's new commercial with BMW drivers pulling up next to the car carrier full of Audis - and climbing aboard is hilarious. I have to give credit where credit is due.

The only time I really saw any GT commercials - and I can count on one hand the number that I saw them - was around late January 2010 - close to Superbowl time.

I guess perhaps BMW marketing strategists feel the GT is a low volume vehicle so why spend the marketing dollars on it, when we can spend the bounty on X3's and 3 Series cars. Even the F10 is a rare site on the tube:dunno:

Now that I think about it, outside of dealer sponsored spots - I don't see any MINI commercials either. However, there appear to be no such sales quandaries in MINI's NA lineup, new Country Man included.

car-fan
06-03-2011, 11:21 PM
I thnk there is dissappointment on BMW NA's behalf, but I'm not sure if the sales are so low that they would stop importing the GT. Think about it, the six series has never had huge sales numbers, but no one is worried at the six going away.

I agree the E63/E64 6 Series never sold in large numbers especially the coupe.

Capobranco
06-04-2011, 07:03 AM
LMAO:rofl:

Now that I think about it, outside of dealer sponsored spots - I don't see any MINI commercials either. However, there appear to be no such sales quandaries in MINI's NA lineup, new Country Man included.

The Mini Countryman is a stretch (literally and figuratively) but still easily understood conceptually. Moreover, small cars, in general, rule now.

The GT is a new type of vehicle that does not fit any established marketing niche. Moreover, the GT was being introduced into a market that not only did not understand nor appreciate the idea of a luxury 5 door but also was hostile to the concept. The GT is a new luxury 5 door endowed with very special DNA that potentially has the right stuff to create a new market segment and blaze the trail for future GT offerings. The GT could be the poster child for marketing conceptually. BMWNA's lack of commitment to market the GT is a lost opportunity and questionable frugality given the BMW's investment in the GT concept.