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myride
10-24-2011, 01:07 PM
I needed a quart of motor oil for my 550i gt after the initial 4k miles-I know the car has a break in period,but i never experienced this with my other Bmws-now I watch my level of motor oil constantly...any comments would be appreciated.

jadnashuanh
10-24-2011, 05:29 PM
Out of curiosity, how religious were you during the break in period to their recommendations?

I may be lucky, on my 535iX-drive, at nearly 7K, it still reads out as max.

Industry standards say less than 1qt/1K miles is 'normal'. I'd be very annoyed with that usage rate, and it might have problems passing emission controls, but you may have problems getting any response from the manufacturer with that usage.

car-fan
10-24-2011, 06:40 PM
I needed a quart of motor oil for my 550i gt after the initial 4k miles-I know the car has a break in period,but i never experienced this with my other Bmws-now I watch my level of motor oil constantly...any comments would be appreciated.

Were any of your other BMW's Turbocharged? Even if so, its not uncommon to top up on the oil on occaision. Unless you are burning excessive oil, topping up once are even twice during the first 10k miles won't raise any concerns. I personally keep a bottle of 5w-30 Castrol Synthetic in the trunk, matter of fact the bottle that is in my trunk now, is the same that was originally cracked open for use in the GT.;) Pre and post DINAN tune oil changes were done at 7500miles and 5000miles respectively.

Capobranco
10-24-2011, 08:21 PM
Reflects my usage - 3+ quarts in 15K miles.

myride
10-24-2011, 09:00 PM
Thanks for the replies- my previous BMWs were not turbocharged,and was careful to follow instructions in the manual as to breaking in the car...

car-fan
10-26-2011, 01:07 PM
Thanks for the replies- my previous BMWs were not turbocharged,and was careful to follow instructions in the manual as to breaking in the car...

Interesting thing I got a low oil warning at 1900 miles.in my 650.. I can't say I have seen that before even with the other N63 TTV8 engined cars I have owned. Goes to show that one has to closely monitor the oil in these cars. I thought I was doing so, I even have preset 2 programmed to display the oil level. Again, from I want I have seen/heard this is still normal consumption and not considered excessive. I plan on changing the break-in oil at 5k.

jadnashuanh
10-26-2011, 05:24 PM
I plan on changing the break-in oil at 5k.

I'd heard that 'break-in' oil is identical to the 'normal' oil (this may not have been true ages ago). Now, if you use it to say the oil used during the break-in period that may now contain more crud from the manufacturing process should be changed sooner, that may be correct, but I don't think it is any different than what will be installed during the oil change. If you've got a decent filter, it shouldn't matter - change it when the computer says.

car-fan
10-26-2011, 06:13 PM
I'd heard that 'break-in' oil is identical to the 'normal' oil (this may not have been true ages ago). Now, if you use it to say the oil used during the break-in period that may now contain more crud from the manufacturing process should be changed sooner, that may be correct, but I don't think it is any different than what will be installed during the oil change. If you've got a decent filter, it shouldn't matter - change it when the computer says.

You would be correct - I am referring to the oil that was installed during vehicle assembly _ production date 06/11. Justification Turbo cars run hotter than those that are normally aspirated, and they love oil - I also plan on getting a software enhancement/tune at some point, wherein the turbo boost will be increased. Last but not least, I own the car so I would like to preserve it, as opposed to driving the car and only getting 3 to 4 oil changes in 36-48 months. If I was leasing, I might have a different mindset. IMHO changing the oil every 15k or so is a bit long in my book. I may be a bit over zealous but it can't hurt:)

jadnashuanh
10-26-2011, 07:47 PM
My last vehicle (an Infiniti) called for oil changes at 3750 miles (which I thought was absurd). After the warranty, I started to use synthetic oil and sending out a sample for testing periodically and using that to determine when it needed to be changed. Once I had a good idea, I'd just do it when I changed the oil to pinpoint any upcoming problems. It easily went 11K miles, and I think that the Castrol oil BMW specs, and the fact that there's more of it and a better filter, means it could easily go the time they say. The oil test one time caught that the Infiniti had started to use a bit of antifreeze before it was easy to tell from the reservoir. At $8-9 per quart, and the engineering BMW puts into their cars, second guessing them seems like a waste. Now, if the dealer will do it for free, okay. You could take a sample, have it tested, and get a very good idea of the life left. Might be worth it, at least once for peace of mind. Older motors were much looser, the seals were weaker, and the rings not well seated at build time. To meet emissions today, the parts must be MUCH tighter, so there's a lot less scuffing and metal to deal with.

The oil itself doesn't wear out, it is its ability to absorb crud, the anti-foaming agents, and the pH stabilizers that get used up.

11gt535
10-27-2011, 06:14 AM
If I was a betting man, I'd say something in the design of the N63 engine common to the current 550 and the 650 is to do with this rather than turbocharging since nearly every BMW is now turbocharged but only the N63 powered variety are eating oil regularly.

car-fan
10-27-2011, 12:52 PM
My last vehicle (an Infiniti) called for oil changes at 3750 miles (which I thought was absurd). After the warranty, I started to use synthetic oil and sending out a sample for testing periodically and using that to determine when it needed to be changed. Once I had a good idea, I'd just do it when I changed the oil to pinpoint any upcoming problems. It easily went 11K miles, and I think that the Castrol oil BMW specs, and the fact that there's more of it and a better filter, means it could easily go the time they say. The oil test one time caught that the Infiniti had started to use a bit of antifreeze before it was easy to tell from the reservoir. At $8-9 per quart, and the engineering BMW puts into their cars, second guessing them seems like a waste. Now, if the dealer will do it for free, okay. You could take a sample, have it tested, and get a very good idea of the life left. Might be worth it, at least once for peace of mind. Older motors were much looser, the seals were weaker, and the rings not well seated at build time. To meet emissions today, the parts must be MUCH tighter, so there's a lot less scuffing and metal to deal with.

The oil itself doesn't wear out, it is its ability to absorb crud, the anti-foaming agents, and the pH stabilizers that get used up.

I currently have 2 Infiniti's (08 G37s Coupe & 11 QX56) both running synthetic oil - change intervals @ 7500K. Oil changes with full synthetic oil, and tire rotation run me $75.00 with tax. Switched over from the Ester oil for both @ the first oil change. Never did observe the 3500k intervals.

jadnashuanh
10-27-2011, 01:14 PM
Based on my experience and testing, you could probably get 10K easily out of the oil, saving 1/3 of your cost. It depends on your driving cycle, city to highway ratio and idling time.

car-fan
10-27-2011, 08:29 PM
Based on my experience and testing, you could probably get 10K easily out of the oil, saving 1/3 of your cost. It depends on your driving cycle, city to highway ratio and idling time.


I agree its mainly the idling time in this SoFla heat that prompts me to change at the intervals I listed. I should also note that my GT - even with DINAN tune - did not burn oil excessively. Speaking of oil I would prefer a conventional dipstick! I'm wondering if my MINI is the last BMW product with an old school dipstick:dunno:

rogueshot
02-20-2014, 03:07 PM
I got my 2010 550 with 4k miles. It burned 2 qts from 4k to 9k. I got the oil changed at 9,500 and now at 10,200 it just needed another qt!!! ....someone please assure me that this is going to stop....this is even more oil than my Porsche burned for its first 20k miles.

Do I need to stop buying qts of oil on my own and go to the dealer every time to document the oil burning? (and get free oil) Or does the computer automatically log low oil warning so that the dealer will know that I have put 3 qts in to date (3 warning lights over 6,200 miles)??

thx
Sean

daders
02-22-2014, 07:47 PM
I got my 2010 550 with 4k miles. It burned 2 qts from 4k to 9k. I got the oil changed at 9,500 and now at 10,200 it just needed another qt!!! ....someone please assure me that this is going to stop....this is even more oil than my Porsche burned for its first 20k miles.

Do I need to stop buying qts of oil on my own and go to the dealer every time to document the oil burning? (and get free oil) Or does the computer automatically log low oil warning so that the dealer will know that I have put 3 qts in to date (3 warning lights over 6,200 miles)??

thx
Sean

We experienced this type of oil consumption in our Audi 2.0L 4 cylinder A4. I would suggest asking for an oil consumption test for the dealer to verify (at least that is the process for Audi). Turbocharged engines just have a greater propensity for oil consumption (I believe it is due to the higher pressures developed and the high rpms of the turbocharger). Audi wound up having to replace the seal on the crankcase ventilation (CCV) and the consumption dropped from 1qt/1000mi to 1qt/3500mi. From how I understand the Audi the warning occurs very early so you do not cause any damage to the vehicle (mostly a psychological scare tactic ;D).

I actually waffled back and forth between being upset about high oil consumption and thinking it's a blessing since I knew my oil was constantly fresh, lol...that's not true at all, I was highly irritated the whole time. Anyway, we got our 2010 with 15,600miles and are near 22,000 with no oil warnings, have not checked the computer to see current level. My personal experience between our two cars I would say your oil consumption is not normal and you should be pressing the dealership to identify the source of loss (most typically a seal somewhere associated with the turbo, again based on Audi experience and search).

Meanwhile the easiest check is the tailpipes for heavy carbon buildup meaning the oil is being consumed through the engine. Then just a visual inspection in the engine bay for any noticeable oil (unfortunately I don't know this engine well enough to point you to a particular area).

Finally, my father was a DIY'er and taught me the incredible value of being ADD concerning keeping the engine bay clean. It allows for quick and easy assessment of any new leaks...I doubt I will work on our GT engine, but I still wipe down the engine bay when I wash it (I actually pull off the engine cover as well). And if you believe old lore, an ancillary benefit is a cooler running engine (I actually ascribe to this belief mainly due to refrigerator coil efficiency decrease due to dust/grime).

Sorry for the diatribe, I should have just said this is not normal operation for our GT, go to your dealer and raise holy h3ll ;-)

Rogue2258
02-23-2014, 10:04 AM
I agree with daders that this amount of oil consumption is not normal. If you read the F01 and F10/11 forum you will discover a new normal in regards to the oil consuption of the N63. I have not seen a statement from BMW that explains the oil consumption of the N63. I have not looked everywhere, but I have checked for an explanation. Our GT uses 1 qt every 2,000 miles on average. Our GT has just requested to have it's oil changed. It has been 18,000 miles since our last change. I will ask our dealer on Tuesday about doing an oil sample. We have more mileage than most approaching 80k. I will be happy to report any oil sample info.

jadnashuanh
02-23-2014, 04:46 PM
So far, I've always hit 12-months before I hit the mileage limit and have had an oil change then. There appears to be a fairly big difference in oil consumption between the V8 and the I6, where on mine, at least, in the 25K miles or so I have on it, it has never budged from reading full. I'd be curious to see the results of the analysis, if it is done. One of (I think, anyways) more important measurements is the TBN value. Not all tests check that. It is an overall measure of the oil's ability to maintain the proper pH. The wear metals are important, but you don't want things being all etched by the oil, if it has lost all of its buffering capability. Most of them also check for water, gas, and antifreeze pollution, which can be a heads up that there may be a problem surfacing. IOW, wear metals are important, but there are other things that are needed for a broad look to assess the engine health.

blue boy
02-23-2014, 05:14 PM
i would be looking at blow-by from the boost getting into the crankcase and then oil into the pvc system and then the combustion chamber.

never heard of turbo engines designed to pass oil.. ive been around turbo mustangs and never knew of the oil burning issue.
mid late 80's it was a common prob to see turbo smoke.,, they failed because the run on during engine shut down that caused the seals to burn out.

jadnashuanh
02-23-2014, 05:49 PM
Early turbochargers were oil-cooled (most of them anyway), but (nearly?) all modern ones have water-cooled bearings. That was one reason you needed to give them a cool-down period after running hard - shutting off the engine just cooked the oil cooling (and in) the bearings because there was no more oil flow. The water jacket is able to absorb more heat, and prevents the oil there from coking (at least most of the time). In our injected engines, they tend to run a bit rich, which is most of the reason why you see some soot on the tailpipes...my I6 has some, and as I said, the sensor has never indicated anything other than full.

Lots of people have commented in other forums on the V8 using oil...it seems to be a fact and the effect, until it reaches certain levels won't trigger corrective action. Numbers I've heard is less than 1K miles to a qt will trigger it, unless there's some obviously leaking and visible at a seal that can be replaced. To me, that isn't great, and I wonder how well cars that are close to that rate will fare on an emissions test, but that seems to be around what the industry considers 'excessive'. One would hope modern materials and manufacturing could do better.

Rogue2258
02-23-2014, 06:19 PM
Caterpillar Truck Engine-- is well known for doing excellent oil analysis. I have not asked an automotive dealer to perform an oil analysis before. I am requesting a sample from our GT on our Tuesday oil change appointment. I will drop it off at Cat myself if our dealer does not look for levels such as TBN. I have questioned my judgment in letting this oil change go until recommended. I am more than curious as to what values are present as opposed to what should be present in the oil after 18k. I am not sure what I should really expect out of an oil after this amount mileage.

jadnashuanh
02-23-2014, 06:31 PM
The TBN should still be positive, and the wear metals within normal limits. The viscosity should still be within range. Minimal water, fuel, and other pollutants should be minimal. The anti-wear additives should not be exhausted. All of the test results that I've had done explained all of the readings and indicated what was 'normal'.

FWIW, the oil itself doesn't wear out, it's the additive package.

rogueshot
02-24-2014, 06:02 AM
I agree with daders that this amount of oil consumption is not normal. If you read the F01 and F10/11 forum you will discover a new normal in regards to the oil consuption of the N63. I have not seen a statement from BMW that explains the oil consumption of the N63. I have not looked everywhere, but I have checked for an explanation. Our GT uses 1 qt every 2,000 miles on average. Our GT has just requested to have it's oil changed. It has been 18,000 miles since our last change. I will ask our dealer on Tuesday about doing an oil sample. We have more mileage than most approaching 80k. I will be happy to report any oil sample info.

You have been burning a qt every 2k miles for 80k miles??

I read most of the oil posts on the F10 section and it seems that my 550 may still be within the break-in period since it is just over 10k miles.

Again, can anyone confirm that the car logs "low oil" or do I need to go to the dealer everytime the light goes on to have them top it off? I have to believe that the dealer knows the date and mileage that the light goes on and when it goes off but would like to confirm....

A B Able Truck
02-24-2014, 07:27 AM
Page 24 - Oil consumption warning;
http://prodcds.bmwuniversity.com/library/bmw/Technician/Technical%20Training%202005/ST501%20Engine%20Technology/07_N63%20Engine.pdf


#12 - Oil consumption
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=839363&d=1364773133

**

rogueshot
02-24-2014, 09:21 AM
Page 24 - Oil consumption warning;
http://prodcds.bmwuniversity.com/library/bmw/Technician/Technical%20Training%202005/ST501%20Engine%20Technology/07_N63%20Engine.pdf


#12 - Oil consumption
http://f10.m5post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=839363&d=1364773133

**

Thanks. I had seen the TSBs posted on the F10 threads....seems crazy that BMW is ok with that level of oil consumption...up to 1qt every 750 miles....you'd think the car was a 2 stroke!!

daders
02-25-2014, 01:58 PM
Thanks. I had seen the TSBs posted on the F10 threads....seems crazy that BMW is ok with that level of oil consumption...up to 1qt every 750 miles....you'd think the car was a 2 stroke!!

Interestingly when we bought our Audi in early 2012 the sales guy mentioned that BMW was going to be introducing 4 bangers in the 3 series and they were from Audi...I thought he was just being the typical BS sales person, however those specs exactly match our Audi manual...

Personally it reminds me of this from Tommy Boy: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9MGTq0QHWCQ


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