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Capobranco
11-11-2011, 03:22 PM
Over the past year I have spent considerable time on the F10 forum. I, carfan and a few others from the F07 forum, have had a "spirited" debate with many of our fellow F10ers over the nature of the F07. For the most part this exercise has been not only fun, but also a good learning experience for both camps. A few times the debate has become mean spirited when our legitimacy as BMW enthusiasts has been called into question. (I have also thrown a few rocks). The following videos were recently posted on the F10 Forum as a reaction to some strong provocation, and to try to foster a measure of understanding. I do not expect F10 guys to have an epiphany regarding the F07 but I believe we can celebrate the brand- BMW - together as fellow enthusiasts. There are many good guys and real enthusiasts in both camps. The F07 Forum is my home - I think it appropriate I should share the following with you.

Hope you enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1RN2CS9v3U

One other I created as a thank you to some good guys on the F10 Forum.
(I suggest going to full screen - pump the volume!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soRanqVzTuA

* GAMSS - German After Market Security System aka Nick the GSD

car-fan
11-11-2011, 03:29 PM
Over the past year I have spent considerable time on the F10 forum. I, and a few others from the F07 forum, have had a "spirited" debate with many of our fellow F10ers over the nature of the F07. For the most part this exercise has been not only fun, but also a good learning experience for both camps. A few times the debate has become mean spirited when our legitimacy as BMW enthusiasts has been called into question. (I have also thrown a few rocks). The following videos were recently posted on the F10 Forum as a reaction to some strong provocation, and to try to foster a measure of understanding. I do not expect F10 guys to have an epiphany regarding the F07 but I believe we can celebrate the brand- BMW - together as fellow enthusiasts. There are many good guys and real enthusiasts in both camps. The F07 Forum is my home - I think it appropriate I should share the following with you.

Hope you enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1RN2CS9v3U

One other I created as a thank you to some good guys on the F10 Forum.
(I suggest going to full screen - pump the volume!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soRanqVzTuA

* GAMSS - German After Market Security System aka Nick the GSD


I'm there with ya in spirit! I remain steadfast in the relevance of the GT. Matter of fact, I see on average 3 to 4 GT's a week now. Remember the days of not seeing another GT for weeks? I suspect in some parts of the country this still may be the case. However, no longer so in South Florida:)

Capobranco
11-11-2011, 04:01 PM
I'm there with ya in spirit! I remain steadfast in the relevance of the GT. Matter of fact, I see on average 3 to 4 GT's a week now. Remember the days of not seeing another GT for weeks? I suspect in some parts of the country this still may be the case. However, no longer so in South Florida:)

Taking a cue from something you said way back when....

I really don't care if BMW cancels the GT in America - I don't want to see others! I like driving a BMW exotic. I see very few in DC and I receive accolades everyday - I am not exaggerating. The only rocks thrown have been from fellow 'festers, ironically. Moreover, the GT really works for me in terms of work and as an engaging ride. In the end, affirmation is always nice and fun, but I appreciate the GT for itself. When I bought the car, the GT intrigued me, I never loved it, but after one year....maybe I am beginning to love it.

I have come to realize that BMW really built a bespoke car just for for me!

PS. Hedging my bets, I recently activated my GEICO extended warranty option before I hit 15K miles - maybe my GT is taking an extended sojourn at the Capo house - I never thought our affair would last as long as it has...:D

kashrahman
11-11-2011, 05:36 PM
can't see the videos at work, but having driven F10 loaners, owned 2 E60s and now the GT. I can understand purists trying to figure out what the heck BMW has done by creating the GT, but I would assume they felt the same way over 10 years ago when the X5 came out. My summer ride is my beautiful E93, but I am just as happy and thrilled (though in a different way) when I drive the wife's GT. The E93 is fun, spirited and sexy -- the GT is luxurious, comfortable yet still sporty and responsive. To me it's different facets, different sides of BMW. I don't think BMW can afford to stay in business building just one "pure" car (which I'm guessing would be a 3 sedan, inline nonturbo 6 and manual trans). I think in order for the brand to survive, grow and prosper they need to offer different vehicles to satisfy different tastes, while still retaining their "BMW-ness" and for that, I am extremely happy!!

I know some people complain it's the same car just offered in small, medium and large, but I'm actually glad for the similarities. It is so nice to use the navigation, heated seats, even just turning the car on without wondering "ok, i'm in brand x car now, where does the key go?" and it's not exactly the same from car to car --- driving the E93 and GT are both fun, but still a little different, and I love them both!

innerloop
11-11-2011, 05:47 PM
What I find amusing is, the F07 has less in common with the F10 than it does with the F01. So why do the F10 folks get so bent out of shape over its existence? Just because it has a "5" on the back? Seriously, if anyone should be defensive its the 7-Series folks - they paid a lot more for the same basic car.

To Kash - I think the E93 is one of the most gorgeous BMWs ever produced, and I am proud to have driven one for the last 3 years. I think given the surprising number of folks that own both E93 and F07 cars, there must be something about the two cars that appeals to the same folks. I've heard the same story multiple times.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but some beholders are more savvy than others.

Capobranco
11-11-2011, 06:01 PM
What I find amusing is, the F07 has less in common with the F10 than it does with the F01. So why do the F10 folks get so bent out of shape over its existence? Just because it has a "5" on the back? Seriously, if anyone should be defensive its the 7-Series folks - they paid a lot more for the same basic car.

To Kash - I think the E93 is one of the most gorgeous BMWs ever produced, and I am proud to have driven one for the last 3 years. I think given the surprising number of folks that own both E93 and F07 cars, there must be something about the two cars that appeals to the same folks. I've heard the same story multiple times.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but some beholders are more savvy than others.

...really?

I owned a very loaded e93 335i MT Sport Suspension loved it, indeed, I might jus' buy another...want to see the vid I made??? - you name 'em - I got 'em :rofl:

innerloop
11-11-2011, 06:09 PM
Yup - same here, E93 335i MT. Loved it. Still loving it, but excited to drop it off Sunday on lease-end and step into the GT after waiting 10 weeks for ED re-delivery. I'd love to keep both, but with a second kid due any minute (literally), it doesn't make sense. Alas our 2-car garage is now all 5-door.

Capobranco
11-11-2011, 06:24 PM
BTW - the beginning of the second vid is pure serendipity - I owned both a tii and a Porsche 911 turbo - although I did not own them at the same time -- that aspect of the vid is some artistic license. It is true that I might have passed the turbo to drive the tii - my tii was the most satisfying car I have ever owned! :drive:

Capobranco
11-11-2011, 06:34 PM
Yup - same here, E93 335i MT. Loved it. Still loving it, but excited to drop it off Sunday on lease-end and step into the GT after waiting 10 weeks for ED re-delivery. I'd love to keep both, but with a second kid due any minute (literally), it doesn't make sense. Alas our 2-car garage is now all 5-door.

I traded my 335i for the GT.

The GT is what I need, and I have been pleasantly surprised that it is so engaging and capable. My 550i GT is just an incredible car - puts a smile on my face everyday! I do yearn for a MT as a second ride ...I'm working on it....

kashrahman
11-11-2011, 06:49 PM
What I find amusing is, the F07 has less in common with the F10 than it does with the F01. So why do the F10 folks get so bent out of shape over its existence? Just because it has a "5" on the back? Seriously, if anyone should be defensive its the 7-Series folks - they paid a lot more for the same basic car.

To Kash - I think the E93 is one of the most gorgeous BMWs ever produced, and I am proud to have driven one for the last 3 years. I think given the surprising number of folks that own both E93 and F07 cars, there must be something about the two cars that appeals to the same folks. I've heard the same story multiple times.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but some beholders are more savvy than others.

I traded my 335i for the GT.

The GT is what I need, and I have been pleasantly surprised that it is so engaging and capable. My 550i GT is just an incredible car - puts a smile on my face everyday! I do yearn for a MT as a second ride ...I'm working on it....


See, imho, I feel the GT and E93 both deliver "BMW-ness" and fun, sportiness, etc while fulfilling different needs. I don't know how BMW would combine droptop motoring and sportiness while still delivering luxury, space and comfort. (and yes, I have seen pics of the Nissan Murano convertible -- on paper makes sense, but no 'BMW-ness'!!!!)

so I can see how both cars appeal to the same people. On a beautiful day, driving around town with just my little one, the E93 is awesome!! And on a longer trip with the whole family, the GT is luxurious and relaxing, while still being fun! It's similar to liking chocolate dipped oreo cookies AND hershey's dark chocolate. They are both chocolate, but considerably different, and yet I like them both!!

and I agree, if anyone should feel "cheated" it's the F01 owners. Similar architecture, options, size, for a lot less. If BMW made a 740LI awd that got similar mileage to our 535 GT awd (which having the same turbo 6, I would assume similar mileage) for a comparable price, then our final choice would have been EXTREMELY close. But when you see what you get with the GT (especially with staying with the 535 GT for better gas mileage, and adding a few options like camera package, night vision, rear seating, etc) and seeing how much a comparable 7 (even 740Li, without awd) costs, the GT just makes perfect sense. Plus I think the wife likes the slightly higher seating position --- gives you a sense of driving a bigger car (which she wants). and I hate to admit, as much as I love my E93, it is easier for my old joints to get into the GT!!!

car-fan
11-11-2011, 06:51 PM
Taking a cue from something you said way back when....

I really don't care if BMW cancels the GT in America - I agree - I don't want to see others! I like driving a BMW exotic. I see very few in DC and I receive accolades everyday - I am not exaggerating. The only rocks thrown have been from fellow 'festers, ironically. Moreover, the GT really works for me in terms of work and as an engaging ride. In the end, affirmation is always nice and fun, but I appreciate the GT for itself. When I bought the car, the GT intrigued me, I never loved it, but after one year....maybe I am beginning to love it.

I have come to realize that BMW really built a bespoke car just for for me!

PS. Hedging my bets, I recently activated my GEICO extended warranty option before I hit 15K miles - maybe my GT is taking an extended sojourn at the Capo house - I never thought our affair would last as long as it has...:D

Wise Decision...nothing like a lasting relationship.."be well my friend" :thumbup::thumbup:

car-fan
11-11-2011, 06:58 PM
See, imho, I feel the GT and E93 both deliver "BMW-ness" and fun, sportiness, etc while fulfilling different needs. I don't know how BMW would combine droptop motoring and sportiness while still delivering luxury, space and comfort. (and yes, I have seen pics of the Nissan Murano convertible -- on paper makes sense, but no 'BMW-ness'!!!!)

so I can see how both cars appeal to the same people. On a beautiful day, driving around town with just my little one, the E93 is awesome!! And on a longer trip with the whole family, the GT is luxurious and relaxing, while still being fun! It's similar to liking chocolate dipped oreo cookies AND hershey's dark chocolate. They are both chocolate, but considerably different, and yet I like them both!!

and I agree, if anyone should feel "cheated" it's the F01 owners. Similar architecture, options, size, for a lot less. If BMW made a 740LI awd that got similar mileage to our 535 GT awd (which having the same turbo 6, I would assume similar mileage) for a comparable price, then our final choice would have been EXTREMELY close. But when you see what you get with the GT (especially with staying with the 535 GT for better gas mileage, and adding a few options like camera package, night vision, rear seating, etc) and seeing how much a comparable 7 (even 740Li, without awd) costs, the GT just makes perfect sense. Plus I think the wife likes the slightly higher seating position --- gives you a sense of driving a bigger car (which she wants). and I hate to admit, as much as I love my E93, it is easier for my old joints to get into the GT!!!


I have to say that although the Multi-Contour seats in my six are comfortable. They are not as comfortable as the thrones in my former GT. There are few cars - as comfortable as the GT. IMHO it has the F01 7 Series beat as well.

1STBimmer
11-11-2011, 11:17 PM
My rationalization is that the reason they get bent over the the F07 is that it is the replacement to their beloved 5 Touring (station wagon). WHICH IT IS NOT. so I kind of sort of give them that (apparently the 1200 tourings they sold the last year of the touring were all sold to B'fest 5 series forum members which now find themselves w/o a wagon) or they are just jumping on the bandwagon of bashing the F07. Why did some whiz kid at BMW marketing (some idiot, in my eyes) decide that the GT would be a wagon-replacer is beyond me... (Although they move more GT's than they ever moved wagons) But i guess it sounds better than saying the the GT is a HATCHBACK (OMG, bad bad word in bmwna speak).

I like the Gt because it's unique. I actually cross-shopped it with the F01 and liked the GT better. I would've not gone for the wagon either since what I need is back seat space, and that the GT has in droves. Maybe if the 5iL (china only car) was offered here I would've bought a F10 but it is not.

Bottom line I don't listen to the people that bash the GT because in my eyes they're just jumping on to the bandwagon. I bet you that 90% of the comments are written by people who would never shop for a GT... Oh well, as Car fan said, if they keep selling it or not, I don't care I love my GT (and miss it badly). Still if BMWNA marketing woulve' not tried to make it what it's not, we probably wouldn't be seeing so many haters.



What I find amusing is, the F07 has less in common with the F10 than it does with the F01. So why do the F10 folks get so bent out of shape over its existence? Just because it has a "5" on the back? Seriously, if anyone should be defensive its the 7-Series folks - they paid a lot more for the same basic car.

To Kash - I think the E93 is one of the most gorgeous BMWs ever produced, and I am proud to have driven one for the last 3 years. I think given the surprising number of folks that own both E93 and F07 cars, there must be something about the two cars that appeals to the same folks. I've heard the same story multiple times.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but some beholders are more savvy than others.

bdman
11-12-2011, 12:34 AM
I'm taking delivery of my 550i GT xDrive w/M Sport in December and will be turning in my 2008 E93 M3. Everytime I park my car I walk away from it and I am amazed at how beautiful it is. At the same time it's time for a change and I'm excited for my GT. Just wish I could get a MT it's really hard for me to accept driving an automatic, although my 2003 M3 cab w/hardtop had SMG I never once used it in automatic mode.

Capobranco
11-12-2011, 04:21 AM
.."be well my friend" :thumbup::thumbup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu1qa8N2ID0

Capobranco
11-12-2011, 06:45 AM
My rationalization is that the reason they get bent over the the F07 is that it is the replacement to their beloved 5 Touring (station wagon). WHICH IT IS NOT. so I kind of sort of give them that (apparently the 1200 tourings they sold the last year of the touring were all sold to B'fest 5 series forum members which now find themselves w/o a wagon) or they are just jumping on the bandwagon of bashing the F07. Why did some whiz kid at BMW marketing (some idiot, in my eyes) decide that the GT would be a wagon-replacer is beyond me... (Although they move more GT's than they ever moved wagons) But i guess it sounds better than saying the the GT is a HATCHBACK (OMG, bad bad word in bmwna speak).

I like the Gt because it's unique. I actually cross-shopped it with the F01 and liked the GT better. I would've not gone for the wagon either since what I need is back seat space, and that the GT has in droves. Maybe if the 5iL (china only car) was offered here I would've bought a F10 but it is not.

Bottom line I don't listen to the people that bash the GT because in my eyes they're just jumping on to the bandwagon. I bet you that 90% of the comments are written by people who would never shop for a GT... Oh well, as Car fan said, if they keep selling it or not, I don't care I love my GT (and miss it badly). Still if BMWNA marketing woulve' not tried to make it what it's not, we probably wouldn't be seeing so many haters.

+1

- the GT is not a Touring substitute - different markets (I owned a Touring-E39)

- BMWNA has done a very poor job defining the F07

- Yes - it is fashionable in certain F10 circles to bash the F07 - in some weird way bashing reaffirms that one is a "true" BMW enthusiast. Some F10ers offer genuine criticism rooted in the F07's seven series based architecture - generally F10ers do not like that each new BMW generation grows larger and heavier. To the extent the F07 is a BMW expression of larger and heavier - it represents that general threat, and many do not evaluate the F07 on its own terms.

- The 5 GT should have never been named a "5" - as we all know here, but many on the F10 forum do not fully appreciate and/or understand, the 5 GT is a variant of the F01. The F10ers cannot identify with the F07 - see little relationship to their cars, and in general hate all things with a "hatch". I consider this a fundamental source of tension and a HUGE misstep on the part of BMW. The GT is its own very unique special thing - we understand it but most do not.

- "GT" - GT Redefined - "experience something for the first time" - OK I get it and I can and have argued vigorously in the affirmative that the GT embodies the spirit of a true "gran turismo". Understandably for most, GT means fast luxury 2 + 2. BMWNA has never actively and/or effectively made the case on behalf of the GT. I drive my 550i GT is a "spirited" manner. The 5 GT is indeed very special - offering luxury, speed, an engaging ride, enhanced functionality, and a bold athletic presence - a GT redefined for a new age. If car savvy guys on the F10 forum do not understand the parameters of the argument - they do not have to agree - BMWNA has fundamentally failed to frame the debate.

- I suspect, most F10ers have never seen a F07 in the wild, much less driven one. Driving my 550i GT and a F10 back to back, I find my F07 to be more engaging. Many F10ers, if they had the opportunity, might reach a similar conclusion. As previously stated many F10ers offer genuine criticism, unfortunately, there are a few who enjoy being bullies.
I have never backed down from a bully in my life.

car-fan
11-13-2011, 01:39 PM
+1

- the GT is not a Touring substitute - different markets (I owned a Touring-E39)

- BMWNA has done a very poor job defining the F07

- Yes - it is fashionable in certain F10 circles to bash the F07 - in some weird way bashing reaffirms that one is a "true" BMW enthusiast. Some F10ers offer genuine criticism rooted in the F07's seven series based architecture - generally F10ers do not like that each new BMW generation grows larger and heavier. To the extent the F07 is a BMW expression of larger and heavier - it represents that general threat, and many do not evaluate the F07 on its own terms.

- The 5 GT should have never been named a "5" - as we all know here, but many on the F10 forum do not fully appreciate and/or understand, the 5 GT is a variant of the F01. The F10ers cannot identify with the F07 - see little relationship to their cars, and in general hate all things with a "hatch". I consider this a fundamental source of tension and a HUGE misstep on the part of BMW. The GT is its own very unique special thing - we understand it but most do not.

- "GT" - GT Redefined - "experience something for the first time" - OK I get it and I can and have argued vigorously in the affirmative that the GT embodies the spirit of a true "gran turismo". Understandably for most, GT means fast luxury 2 + 2. BMWNA has never actively and/or effectively made the case on behalf of the GT. I drive my 550i GT is a "spirited" manner. The 5 GT is indeed very special - offering luxury, speed, an engaging ride, enhanced functionality, and a bold athletic presence - a GT redefined for a new age. If car savvy guys on the F10 forum do not understand the parameters of the argument - they do not have to agree - BMWNA has fundamentally failed to frame the debate.

- I suspect, most F10ers have never seen a F07 in the wild, much less driven one. Driving my 550i GT and a F10 back to back, I find my F07 to be more engaging. Many F10ers, if they had the opportunity, might reach a similar conclusion. As previously stated many F10ers offer genuine criticism, unfortunately, there are a few who enjoy being bullies.
I have never backed down from a bully in my life.


The F07 is a legitimate "Grand Tourer/Gran Turismo" for up to 5 adults - without compromise. The F07 has it's own demographic, most of those F10 folks who find an F10 big, would be lost in a GT. I would also endeavor to say I really don't hear of people cross-shopping F10's with F07's or vice versa. They are more likely to cross shop with an F01 7 series and/or X6/X5.

+1 on the bully part;) I can also add with DINAN software my GT was even more menacing - I embarrassed quite a few that totally underestimated the GT's performance;)

At the end of the day no one has to make excuses for the GT it truly holds it's own - and its currently uncontested in it's class (1st of one, and second to none) IMHO :thumbup::thumbup:

Mikez38
11-14-2011, 07:58 AM
I have seen the same reaction from a few "enthusiasts" on the P car form when the Cayenne and Panamera models were introduced. People get very protective of there models thinking what the own (drive) is the only true version.
It matters not what is said as long as we enjoy our ride. I know I do. I have had many compliments on my 550GT.