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View Full Version : 2012 MB E550 Cab vs 2012 650i vert


BravoMikeWiskey
12-16-2011, 09:29 PM
Took in my 08 SL550 for service this week, while waiting, wondered over to the showroom and ended up taking the new 2012 E550 cab for a test drive.

The car had 18 inch AMG wheels, part of the appearance pkg, and the ride was just as nice as my SL, C&D 2011 review came to mind, 'for a convertible, the ride verges on perfection-it's inappropriate to even bring up the term cowl shake. On a good road, it's like riding on glass.'

I've always been a fan of normally aspirated, large displacement MB V8s, but this 4.7L Biturbo V8 is quite impressive...I think my car is pretty fast, but this is a whole other kind of 'fast'. This thing felt AMG-fast, while making some exotic sounds on the way to red line.

After the test drive came the obligatory 'please come to my desk...', and I was offered a loaded up Premium 2 Cab, 'if I do the deal before year end', for about 65k. That's like a lot less than a comparably equipped 650i vert I'm considering for order. I've pondered this pricing difference for a few days now, while trying to convince myself that the E550 is not really the right comparison to the 650i, the SL550 should be compared. By which standard the 650i is a relative bargain. But, a few objective items merit thorough consideration, and 'looks' a highly subjective criterion, isn't one them:

A. SL550 is a roadster, with 2 seats and a hard top vs. a 2+2 with a soft top. These two cars could not be more different.

B. While overall, the 650i Vert is 7.5 inches longer than the E550 Cab, the wheelbase is 3.7 inches longer, while the headroom (top up), legroom and shoulder room are a virtual dead heat. Yet, E550 cab matches, if not exceeds, the 650i vert in most, if not all performance metrics, and E550 cab weighs...a whopping 500lbs less than the 650i vert. :yikes:

C. E550 gets a Green (highest) crash safety rating from IIHS for 2012. 650i is an unknown here, since there's no ratings yet from either IIHS or NHTSA or Euro NACP.

D. While BMW has a smaller displacement motor and an 8 speed Sport Auto transmission to MB's 7 speed, 650i vert does not best E550 mpg numbers. EPA rates 650i at 15/23 and MB at 16/25. The extra 500lbs to propel, no doubt...

E. According to KBB, E550 trumps, in percentage terms, 650i in resale value.

F. E550 Cab is built on C/E hybrid platform, while the 6 is built on the 5 series, F10 platform. Whatever that may or may not mean in a real world.

G. Similarly equipped, the price as configured is $95425 for 650i vert and $69675 for E550 Cab. That's 25750 difference. Big chunk of wood...:eek:

Scratching my head, trying to come up with objective reasons why the 650i is a superior car to the E550. And if so, why it's 40% superior...:dunno:

thom.one.two
12-17-2011, 12:46 AM
Warning. This is a BMW fan site. I am obviously a BMW fan. This is merely the way that I see it.

I live in Houston. I remember when Beyonce' made it big. I passed her mother's then shop everyday while going to work. Then, one day, a Black Phantom was parked at the shop. The Phantom sat there, usually under a cover. Why did she buy a Phantom to sit in downtown Houston, under a car cover? Because she could. Why not buy 4 7's? Or 14 5's, or E's, or maybe even 28 Maximas. I guess because she could.

I was in your delimma. Recently, I was trying to decide between an Aston Martin V8 Vantage Roadster, and a F12 BMW. Sticker to sticker, there was about a 25-30K difference. The truth is, I couldn't justify spending slightly more on car note, which wasn't a big deal, but my insurance bill, and thank goodness I checked, would have been 12K per year on that car alone. Plus, maintanence. Plus tires every 7K miles. Plus no warrantly within 36 months. Soon, I figured out that there was a reason that Astons have only hand build 45,000 cars in its entire history of car building. The 650 will never have something that the Aston has. The name Aston. And I was not ready, or willing, or able to dedicate that much money to a car to sit in my garage. So if the 650 is a stretch and out of what you can afford, there are other good cars out there.

Now for the E class. It's safe. But why buy an E Class with a Passat. Why not an E Class with two Scions? Or Maybe an E Class with 4 Smart Cars? Maybe because you see the Passat as a step up from the Scion and Smart. The E Class does not measure up to the 650 on the ladder. Just like the 650 doesn't measure up to the V8 Vantage and nor does the v8 Vantage measure up to the Bently Continental GT, or that to the Drop Head Coupe. It's moving up scale.

Technology, and that is where the two cars you are talking about take two completley different roads. The Benz brags about a revolutionary way to get fluid from the wiper blade to the windsheild. Whoo hoo. The 650 basically thinks for you and is superior in interior quality to darned near every car out there, including the Aston. The E is, safe. It blends in nicely. But you said it exactly when you said something about smooth ride. Yep. That's a Benz. Look, I bought the first CLS in the States. Boring. I hated that car because it was smooth and nice. I wanted to feel connected to the road and connected to the machine. That's not a Benzie feature at all. I traded it in on an 08 M5.

Before my 650 came in, I drove an SL65 AMG. It was 155+ and was visually stunning. I loved the exterior and the glass retractable top. But inside, my 09 650 had that car beat so bad. I felt like it was from the 90's in comparison to the 09 Bimmer.

So back to what you want. You pull up in the E Class at Neimans. You will get front parking until I pull up. They move the E out of the way for the new 650. But when the Aston pulls up, the 650 goes 2nd row. The E goes out of sight. The Rolls pulls up and get's placed on the curb. That's how it works and that costs money. Sometimes you can't see it on a spread sheet. But in my opinion, the E Class is completely invisible and is truly not the car to compare the to the 650. Try looking at a 335is for a true comparison. It sounds like I buy based on others. My car sits at home and I play with it for me. Not to impress others. However, that is the way upscale works.

When Bangle introducted the Idrive/IControl thing, we all screamed. But Audi was next and MB followed. BMW introduced the double bin dash design, and there it was on the Benz. The 02 7 series got a shift knob on the column, and there was MB moving theirs around to the column. The bandle butt appeared, and disappeared, and the current S took it over.

Now for driving experience. The 650, again, is in a differnt league. Watch the youtube comparison in the new M5 vs the new CLS55 AMG. The MB is faster. But it looses the comparison because it's not engaging and it does not work in unison with the driver. Yea, even the C65 or 55 or whatever has more horsepower and grunt than an M3. But the winner is always the M3 beause it is built as a drivers car and it works perfectly, not just the comparison numbers on a sheet.

My partner like coush and likes floaty. The MB suits him just fine. We found a compromise in the Panamera S. Even he felt, at 45, way too young for the Benz. One day when my hips hurt, maybe a Benz will be my car. But for now, I want a car that is fun to drive, looks fun to drive, and personally, I hate the silly look of the squared off, rolling hips of the new MB, especially the E. To me, it is just dated at inception, looks like an old Q45 in the rear, with odd '70s looking Monte Carlo sides.

So in summary. If the E was in the same cartegory as the 650, why do they make an SL? Aaah. The SL is upmarket. The Aston is a tad slower than my 650. But it still trumps the hell out of it in name sake alone. But it should. It is up market.

Again, all my IMAO. But I see no comparison between the 650 and the E Class except, mabe the wheels. And them not so much.

coolhandshin
12-17-2011, 10:48 AM
Great review by thom. Thanks.

anythingbuttime
12-17-2011, 04:54 PM
Warning. This is a BMW fan site. I am obviously a BMW fan. This is merely the way that I see it.



I couldn't have said it better. Litrerally. And I write for a living.

Chiropractor
12-17-2011, 05:14 PM
...best review/opinion I've read all year

car-fan
12-17-2011, 07:10 PM
Warning. This is a BMW fan site. I am obviously a BMW fan. This is merely the way that I see it.

I live in Houston. I remember when Beyonce' made it big. I passed her mother's then shop everyday while going to work. Then, one day, a Black Phantom was parked at the shop. The Phantom sat there, usually under a cover. Why did she buy a Phantom to sit in downtown Houston, under a car cover? Because she could. Why not buy 4 7's? Or 14 5's, or E's, or maybe even 28 Maximas. I guess because she could.

I was in your delimma. Recently, I was trying to decide between an Aston Martin V8 Vantage Roadster, and a F12 BMW. Sticker to sticker, there was about a 25-30K difference. The truth is, I couldn't justify spending slightly more on car note, which wasn't a big deal, but my insurance bill, and thank goodness I checked, would have been 12K per year on that car alone. Plus, maintanence. Plus tires every 7K miles. Plus no warrantly within 36 months. Soon, I figured out that there was a reason that Astons have only hand build 45,000 cars in its entire history of car building. The 650 will never have something that the Aston has. The name Aston. And I was not ready, or willing, or able to dedicate that much money to a car to sit in my garage. So if the 650 is a stretch and out of what you can afford, there are other good cars out there.

Now for the E class. It's safe. But why buy an E Class with a Passat. Why not an E Class with two Scions? Or Maybe an E Class with 4 Smart Cars? Maybe because you see the Passat as a step up from the Scion and Smart. The E Class does not measure up to the 650 on the ladder. Just like the 650 doesn't measure up to the V8 Vantage and nor does the v8 Vantage measure up to the Bently Continental GT, or that to the Drop Head Coupe. It's moving up scale.

Technology, and that is where the two cars you are talking about take two completley different roads. The Benz brags about a revolutionary way to get fluid from the wiper blade to the windsheild. Whoo hoo. The 650 basically thinks for you and is superior in interior quality to darned near every car out there, including the Aston. The E is, safe. It blends in nicely. But you said it exactly when you said something about smooth ride. Yep. That's a Benz. Look, I bought the first CLS in the States. Boring. I hated that car because it was smooth and nice. I wanted to feel connected to the road and connected to the machine. That's not a Benzie feature at all. I traded it in on an 08 M5.

Before my 650 came in, I drove an SL65 AMG. It was 155+ and was visually stunning. I loved the exterior and the glass retractable top. But inside, my 09 650 had that car beat so bad. I felt like it was from the 90's in comparison to the 09 Bimmer.

So back to what you want. You pull up in the E Class at Neimans. You will get front parking until I pull up. They move the E out of the way for the new 650. But when the Aston pulls up, the 650 goes 2nd row. The E goes out of sight. The Rolls pulls up and get's placed on the curb. That's how it works and that costs money. Sometimes you can't see it on a spread sheet. But in my opinion, the E Class is completely invisible and is truly not the car to compare the to the 650. Try looking at a 335is for a true comparison. It sounds like I buy based on others. My car sits at home and I play with it for me. Not to impress others. However, that is the way upscale works.

When Bangle introducted the Idrive/IControl thing, we all screamed. But Audi was next and MB followed. BMW introduced the double bin dash design, and there it was on the Benz. The 02 7 series got a shift knob on the column, and there was MB moving theirs around to the column. The bandle butt appeared, and disappeared, and the current S took it over.

Now for driving experience. The 650, again, is in a differnt league. Watch the youtube comparison in the new M5 vs the new CLS55 AMG. The MB is faster. But it looses the comparison because it's not engaging and it does not work in unison with the driver. Yea, even the C65 or 55 or whatever has more horsepower and grunt than an M3. But the winner is always the M3 beause it is built as a drivers car and it works perfectly, not just the comparison numbers on a sheet.

My partner like coush and likes floaty. The MB suits him just fine. We found a compromise in the Panamera S. Even he felt, at 45, way too young for the Benz. One day when my hips hurt, maybe a Benz will be my car. But for now, I want a car that is fun to drive, looks fun to drive, and personally, I hate the silly look of the squared off, rolling hips of the new MB, especially the E. To me, it is just dated at inception, looks like an old Q45 in the rear, with odd '70s looking Monte Carlo sides.

So in summary. If the E was in the same cartegory as the 650, why do they make an SL? Aaah. The SL is upmarket. The Aston is a tad slower than my 650. But it still trumps the hell out of it in name sake alone. But it should. It is up market.

Again, all my IMAO. But I see no comparison between the 650 and the E Class except, mabe the wheels. And them not so much.


:):bow:

TopDownInFL
12-18-2011, 07:04 AM
Again, all my IMAO.

Would that stand for "in my AWESOME opinion"??? ;)

Bravo, in all seriousness, thanks for bringing this up and providing your review of the MB - many of us have other cars besides our Bimmers and it's nice to hear a review of another brand.

TopDownInFL
12-18-2011, 07:07 AM
BTW, Boo-Freakin'-Hoo to all of us if our biggest problem is choosing between a $70K and $100K car. #firstworldproblems ;)

petriej
12-19-2011, 07:29 PM
BTW, Boo-Freakin'-Hoo to all of us if our biggest problem is choosing between a $70K and $100K car. #firstworldproblems ;)

Seriously.


Good review, Thom.

thom.one.two
12-19-2011, 07:57 PM
LOL. Thanks. It was 1:30 AM. Didn't re-read/proof. Typos everywhere ;)

I'm very new to this forum. I've driven BMW's since 1998. I eat, breathe, and sleep cars, yet this is the first forum I've joined, and just registered with the local BMW club. This is a really cool way for all of us to learn more about cars.

quarterto8
12-21-2011, 04:20 AM
I am also from Houston. Can you pm me the info about the local bmw club?LOL. Thanks. It was 1:30 AM. Didn't re-read/proof. Typos everywhere ;)

I'm very new to this forum. I've driven BMW's since 1998. I eat, breathe, and sleep cars, yet this is the first forum I've joined, and just registered with the local BMW club. This is a really cool way for all of us to learn more about cars.

thom.one.two
12-21-2011, 11:56 AM
Here is the website link. I just joined last week. I had no idea that one year after your membership, you are eligable for money back from BWM on your next purchase, and discounts on lots of items. I have been to one coffee, and it was a really cool experience with lots of really cool people. I will be at the dinner in January, too. It really is a good group to join.

http://www.houston-bmwcca.com/portal/

K-A
12-21-2011, 05:03 PM
The E is by far the better value, but like it was explained above, there are always better values.

Maybe it's because I'm too much of a car geek, but I can't buy into the marketing aspect of the "E Coupe/Vert". To me, they're C-Class 2-Doors with some E styling gimmicks and tech (actually that's basically fact). Even the interior is a step or 3.. or 5 down from the E Sedan, and closer to if not worse than the facelifted C-Classes (aside from the superb seats).

The 6 is on a higher level, a different league to me, and the price reflects that. Although I find BMW to be out of their minds with the pricing on the new 6's, too inflated.

thom.one.two
12-21-2011, 06:35 PM
I totally agree. When I bought my '09, I peaked at the M6. It was $114, and I thought "Damn, that's pricey." My 2012 F12 was more than the '09 M6, and now with the new 3 Coupe coming out with all of the same options, a larger rear seat, and damn good performance, I see the argument. Ultimatley, it is just what league you want to play in. But I'll tell you, the 650 is so, so, so nice, I find myself saying "it's worth every penny." Magic costs extra.

Nice E in the picture, BTW.

K-A
12-21-2011, 07:06 PM
Thank you!

I agree. The new 6 is really tugging at the heart strings, in the "I gotta have it" sense, first car since I've had my E to really do that to me, namely a White Coupe with M-Pack.... Just absolutely gorgeous. I've gone to every Dealer in my area to have a new excuse to check one out. The Sticker shock on the 650i with M-Pack was just incredible. Over $100K easy, which is just unfortunate.

Being someone who doesn't need such excessive (to me) power, I was really happy to find out just a couple of weeks ago that there's a 640i available as well. In fact, I saw a 640i with my EXACT preferred combo (White, M-Pack, etc.) and it was priced at $87K. Not as exuberant as the 650 version, but still up there, especially now that you realize that you're getting a more "normal" V6 available in the 3-Series and 1 Series range (though with a few more ponies). HP isn't a big factor to me, but for that price range, you want to cling on to *some* level of value, at least. The 6 is a car that is clearly pricing its aesthetic (which by nature is subjective) premium into the price, heavily.

Oh well, as long as there are people paying for them, BMW has no incentives to move the prices down. Hopefully for my sake they find some reasons to throw some major incentives toward these cars by the time the '13's start rolling out. :D

thom.one.two
12-21-2011, 08:55 PM
Here is my, again, very humble opinion. The V8 costs you about 6 bucks per day in payment. It is worth 6 bucks just to hear the V8 rumble in the morning when you crank her up. Skip the trip to Starbucks. Pack your own lunch. But buy the 650. If not, every time you hear the V6 your going to think, "I coulda had a V8."

BravoMikeWiskey
12-21-2011, 08:59 PM
Thank you!

I agree. The new 6 is really tugging at the heart strings, in the "I gotta have it" sense, first car since I've had my E to really do that to me, namely a White Coupe with M-Pack.... Just absolutely gorgeous. I've gone to every Dealer in my area to have a new excuse to check one out. The Sticker shock on the 650i with M-Pack was just incredible. Over $100K easy, which is just unfortunate.

Being someone who doesn't need such excessive (to me) power, I was really happy to find out just a couple of weeks ago that there's a 640i available as well. In fact, I saw a 640i with my EXACT preferred combo (White, M-Pack, etc.) and it was priced at $87K. Not as exuberant as the 650 version, but still up there, especially now that you realize that you're getting a more "normal" V6 available in the 3-Series and 1 Series range (though with a few more ponies). HP isn't a big factor to me, but for that price range, you want to cling on to *some* level of value, at least. The 6 is a car that is clearly pricing its aesthetic (which by nature is subjective) premium into the price, heavily.

Oh well, as long as there are people paying for them, BMW has no incentives to move the prices down. Hopefully for my sake they find some reasons to throw some major incentives toward these cars by the time the '13's start rolling out. :D

Actually, BMW does have incentives to move them, in your case, $7000 worth. Add another 1000 if you're a BMW CCA member. I do not think the incentives are going to get any better after 1/3, but who knows. I suspect the 2013 models, with a likely bump in hp for the V8 models, will go into production in March to coincide with the roll out of the 2013 Gran Coupe. Will be interesting to see if the 2013 6 series cars will retain the 3500 option credit.

TopDownInFL
12-22-2011, 09:03 AM
namely a White Coupe with M-Pack.... Just absolutely gorgeous.

Couldn't agree more!


The Sticker shock on the 650i with M-Pack was just incredible. Over $100K easy, which is just unfortunate.

Mine was $91K.

Leslierc
12-22-2011, 09:31 AM
Actually, BMW does have incentives to move them, in your case, $7000 worth. Add another 1000 if you're a BMW CCA member. I do not think the incentives are going to get any better after 1/3, but who knows. I suspect the 2013 models, with a likely bump in hp for the V8 models, will go into production in March to coincide with the roll out of the 2013 Gran Coupe. Will be interesting to see if the 2013 6 series cars will retain the 3500 option credit.

I was about to make the same point before I read your post. There would seem to be no better time than now to pull the trigger on a new 6 if a person is serious and truly committed.

Elias
12-22-2011, 09:41 AM
[QUOTE=thom.one.two;6516389]Here is my, again, very humble opinion. The V8 costs you about 6 bucks per day in payment. It is worth 6 bucks just to hear the V8 rumble in the morning when you crank her up. Skip the trip to Starbucks. Pack your own lunch. But buy the 650. If not, every time you hear the V6 your going to think, "I coulda had a V8."[/QUOTE

+1my thoughts exactly you only live once if you can afford it go for the V8 you won't be disappointed!

K-A
12-22-2011, 07:41 PM
Couldn't agree more!




Mine was $91K.

Was that MSRP or with incentives?

TopDownInFL
12-23-2011, 04:51 AM
Was that MSRP or with incentives?

MSRP. Incentives were $6500 in total at the time. took $5500 and 2.9% financing.

K-A
12-23-2011, 05:34 AM
Looks like you did quite well! Much "closer to earth" than some of these insane prices I've seen on the same visual and designated (650i) cars as yours around where I live ($105K was one of them).

I wonder how much a 640i with your same exact configuration (aside from the obvious model designation) would be? Maybe low $70's, after incentives? Starting to get closer and closer.

I dunno, a 650i would be great, but I'm not a big power junkie. At the same time, a 320 HP car with a motor available in everything to as low as a 1-Series for $70-80K can be a bad value play. As spoiled as I am now with wanting to own only "New Cars", I think a best bet would be to let depreciation set in, and see how serious I am about these new 6ers once the gently, and lightly "Used" models show up as Certified in a year or so. :D

Capobranco
12-23-2011, 10:44 AM
I was about to make the same point before I read your post. There would seem to be no better time than now to pull the trigger on a new 6 if a person is serious and truly committed.

+ 1

End of Year BMW Incentives + Substantial Dealer Discounts + Loyalty = Opportunity to drive a 650i for less than one would expect -
a very nice Christmas present!

svp66
12-23-2011, 04:15 PM
Looks like you did quite well! Much "closer to earth" than some of these insane prices I've seen on the same visual and designated (650i) cars as yours around where I live ($105K was one of them).

I wonder how much a 640i with your same exact configuration (aside from the obvious model designation) would be? Maybe low $70's, after incentives? Starting to get closer and closer.

I dunno, a 650i would be great, but I'm not a big power junkie. At the same time, a 320 HP car with a motor available in everything to as low as a 1-Series for $70-80K can be a bad value play. As spoiled as I am now with wanting to own only "New Cars", I think a best bet would be to let depreciation set in, and see how serious I am about these new 6ers once the gently, and lightly "Used" models show up as Certified in a year or so. :D

Depends also on where you live. The 640 does not come with XDrive, I don't think they will make it available in the future either. If you have snow, all wheel drive is very helpful, especially with such a powerful car (640 still has over 300 bhp, all going to the rear).

BravoMikeWiskey
12-23-2011, 10:03 PM
A nicely equipped 640i Coupe ordered through Euro Delivery after combined incentives works out to low 60s. Arguably, there's some value in it at those numbers. The time to pull the trigger, however, is very limited, the orders should be in by close of business on 1/2/12.

The time is now to trade in that [your old car here] for a new 2012 6 series. And help yourself to the beer and sandwiches at the Welt...:beerchug:

K-A
12-24-2011, 03:54 AM
Damn! Low $60's for a 640 Coupe with M-Pack andI'm sold!

TopDownInFL
12-24-2011, 04:39 AM
The base 640 coupe with ED n the US is $68K. Not bad at all!

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Experience/Events/EuropeanDelivery/OrderYourBMW.aspx