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car-fan
12-29-2011, 02:40 PM
Long story short on Dec 23rd I noticed what appeared to be a faint pop noise on the drivers side of the toneau cover when closing the top. The top closed fine and the toenau cover appeared to close properly without issue/errors. On Christmas day while opening the top, the operation almost fully completed - however, the toneau cover would not close all the way on the drivers side - making now a very noticeable pop while trying to fully close. Of course the top not locked warning chime displayed/alarmed. I reversed and closed the top without issue. Status - retractable top - closed confirmed.

Knowing the nuances of these cars in general - I decided not to mess with the top any further, and drop the car off for diagnosis on Monday Dec 26th. Now the SA is able to retract the top and duplicate the sound, and the issue of the toneau cover not being able to fully close with the "top not locked" displayed. The SA is able to fully raise and close the top, but continues to try to lower the top again, now a "retractable top temporarily unavailable" error is displayed along with the "retractable top not locked" error. Plus the trunk is locked.......Okay so I decide to leave the car at the dealer.

Fast forward to today - I get a call from the SA stating that the technician claims the convertible top frame was bent due to outside influences, due to trying to lower the top while driving on (2) occasions at 27 mph and 34 mph at 1100 miles and 2200 miles respectively. The car now has 5000 miles. I only raise and lower the top while the car is stationary - so that's BS. I let the SA have it, Contacted BMW NA, Contacted the dealer GM-- as I was furious that they would also claim that the situation was not warrantable- due to driver error hell no!:thumbdwn:

I ended up speaking with the Service Manager and he stated that a field engineer will be at the dealership on Tuesday to review the situation.

At least the issue was able to be duplicated in the SA's presence as the top wasn't fully dead until after his repeated attempts at raising and lowering the top finally killed any movement at all, including locking out the trunk:rolleyes:

I am now wondering if the much talked about fault code "A6A4 overspeed warning" has something to due with the misrepresented speeds mentioned earlier. I would endeavor to say that some of the issues that affected the E63 are present in the F12. This is BMW #9 for me not including the 2 MINI's (one that I currently own as well). Rest assured it won't take more than 3 more "fixit attempts" and/or 24 days to reach a resolution of some type.

Ohh and I love the car BTW...but these freaking BMW nuances have ways of getting under your skin - sorry long post/rant/vent:mad:

svp66
12-29-2011, 05:22 PM
Sorry to hear that, hopefully they will fix it in an acceptable way. I would suggest they check also their software since it registered two attempts at opening while driving even if you were not doing that. Will help ward future errors of same kind.

TopDownInFL
12-29-2011, 07:51 PM
One position to take is even if you *had* tried to lower the top at those speeds, the *car* allowed it (it shouldn't since it is not supposed to) making it a car error.

car-fan
12-29-2011, 10:15 PM
One position to take is even if you *had* tried to lower the top at those speeds, the *car* allowed it (it shouldn't since it is not supposed to) making it a car error.


Thanks for the input guys..."TopDown" you had a top replacement one of your previous 6 convertibles right? How did that go?

long time
12-30-2011, 04:36 AM
I had the top replaced on my 2009 650 vert at 34,000 miles due to excessive wear along the edges of the top which was causing it to fray. Took Bramen West palm a total of 7 days to get and install the part.

TopDownInFL
12-30-2011, 06:09 AM
Thanks for the input guys..."TopDown" you had a top replacement one of your previous 6 convertibles right? How did that go?

Mine was the sensor issue that lead to the dreaded "Convertible Top Not Locked" error. Took 10 visits over the course of a year plus an awesome SA to get BMW to replace the whole thing.

long time
12-30-2011, 09:13 AM
One position to take is even if you *had* tried to lower the top at those speeds, the *car* allowed it (it shouldn't since it is not supposed to) making it a car error.

And the counter argument would be -

The vehicle operator started the top in motion below 25 mph and then accelerated above 25 mph before the top motion was complete. The top would stop moving above 25 mph as it is supposed to but the additional speed combined with the top in an unusual position caused the damage, as a direct result of operator error.

car-fan
12-30-2011, 12:18 PM
And the counter argument would be -

The vehicle operator started the top in motion below 25 mph and then accelerated above 25 mph before the top motion was complete. The top would stop moving above 25 mph as it is supposed to but the additional speed combined with the top in an unusual position caused the damage, as a direct result of operator error.


Although that is not the reality, they could try that counter argument, however then the question would be why would the top exhibit no problems for roughly 3,000 miles before system failure. Secondly the top operation seems to be fine, the problem appears to be with the toneau cover as it does no fully close on the left side when the top is fully retracted. In essence the top operation is basically 99.8% complete before the problem arises...

car-fan
12-30-2011, 12:21 PM
I had the top replaced on my 2009 650 vert at 34,000 miles due to excessive wear along the edges of the top which was causing it to fray. Took Bramen West palm a total of 7 days to get and install the part.

I know Braman WPB very well, I have bought cars from them in the past. Their service is pretty good.

TopDownInFL
12-30-2011, 09:20 PM
If you're closer to Vista on Sample, I can point you to a good SA. PM me.

car-fan
01-01-2012, 08:59 AM
Thanks will do especially if things go sour with Braman Miami. Although, I am not anticipating it will. Prepared for next steps if required...I would much rather be rolling with the top down, the last couple of days here have been perfect:(

Capobranco
01-01-2012, 07:15 PM
car-fan

Very distressing ***8211; I am surprised that the dealership did not simply resolve the problem in your favor as an accommodation given you have purchased not only a top of the line BMW but also eight prior BMWs.

For what it is worth, I had a similar problem this past summer with my GT but successfully resolved the situation ***8211; perhaps my experience may offer some insight. At my 15K mile service, I noted to my SA that the leather on one of the driver's seat bolsters had developed an unsightly looseness. The fix was very expensive ***8211; replacement of the lower half of the seat. Most service departments would dismiss my claim as normal wear and tear. I offered to my SA and the service manager a sound explanation why the leather was defective. They took photos and forwarded my argument to BMWUSA. I followed up with a call to BMWUSA. I was told that my case had gone beyond engineering directly to "marketing" ***8211; the final arbiter. BMWUSA customer service suggested I write a note to them which they would forward to marketing, and to copy both the service manager and the sales manager, and ask them both, to make a call to their rep at BMWUSA. My letter was very simple - two points ***8211; one ***8211; do the right thing ***8211; the leather was defective and here's why. Two ***8211; even if BMWUSA did not agree with my argument ***8211; BMW should make an accommodation to satisfy a loyal customer who had purchased five prior BMWs. Marketing understands the value of "life time customer equity" even if customer service does not.

Long story short ***8211; BMWNA replaced my seat which the dealership said was many thousands of dollars. This past December when I was shopping 911 Carrera v. M3 ***8211; I thought about BMW going the distance to please me, versus my previous experiences at very imperious, indifferent Porsche dealerships. I am very pleased with my new M3***8230;..Perhaps, if BMWNA had not gone the distance to satisfy me, I might now be driving a new 911.

car-fan
01-02-2012, 01:35 PM
car-fan

Very distressing ***8211; I am surprised that the dealership did not simply resolve the problem in your favor as an accommodation given you have purchased not only a top of the line BMW but also eight prior BMWs.

For what it is worth, I had a similar problem this past summer with my GT but successfully resolved the situation ***8211; perhaps my experience may offer some insight. At my 15K mile service, I noted to my SA that the leather on one of the driver's seat bolsters had developed an unsightly looseness. The fix was very expensive ***8211; replacement of the lower half of the seat. Most service departments would dismiss my claim as normal wear and tear. I offered to my SA and the service manager a sound explanation why the leather was defective. They took photos and forwarded my argument to BMWUSA. I followed up with a call to BMWUSA. I was told that my case had gone beyond engineering directly to "marketing" ***8211; the final arbiter. BMWUSA customer service suggested I write a note to them which they would forward to marketing, and to copy both the service manager and the sales manager, and ask them both, to make a call to their rep at BMWUSA. My letter was very simple - two points ***8211; one ***8211; do the right thing ***8211; the leather was defective and here's why. Two ***8211; even if BMWUSA did not agree with my argument ***8211; BMW should make an accommodation to satisfy a loyal customer who had purchased five prior BMWs. Marketing understands the value of "life time customer equity" even if customer service does not.

Long story short ***8211; BMWNA replaced my seat which the dealership said was many thousands of dollars. This past December when I was shopping 911 Carrera v. M3 ***8211; I thought about BMW going the distance to please me, versus my previous experiences at very imperious, indifferent Porsche dealerships. I am very pleased with my new M3***8230;.....Perhaps, if BMWNA had not gone the distance to satisfy me, I might now be driving a new 911.

What's up "Capo"! Good to see you over here how's the M3 treating you? ;) Back in the earlier days of my GT owners ship (12/09) I posted where I had an issue with my first 550iGT, at 700 miles it died on me, and I had to have it towed to the dealer. At first I thought it may have been related to HPFP issues but turned out it was a fuel level sensor issue. I think I may have been one of the first in the USA to experience this on the GT, as I was one of the first to take delivery of the F07. I didn't take it for granted and followed consumer protocol to ensure my rights were protected. Long story short BMW did the right thing and that AW 550iGT was replaced with a DG 550iGT.

I've been down this road with BMW, even before the GT situation. I am in no way a glutton for punishment, but perhaps one of BMW's most loyal customers. I can honestly say I have owned more BMW's than any other make, and I have stuck by them because they usually do the right thing and I love the product(s) - bottom line. Sometimes you come across technical staff that have their own outlook on things, which requires one to escalate things - which is a pain in the @ss - but things usually work out. I am expecting a satisfactory resolution to issue with my F12.

Capobranco
01-03-2012, 01:11 PM
What's up "Capo"! Good to see you over here how's the M3 treating you? ;)

Feel totally at one with my M - maybe the perfect car for me....
Yesterday was my birthday and we went for a drive in the West Virginia mountains....with M Mode fully engaged....I am still sporting a giant grin....
Vrrooomm!

BTW I occasionally lurk over here ...if all goes to plan - my M3 will be
joined by a 650i F13 next Christmas...so I try to stay informed....
Of course, by next Christmas, you will have moved on to a Porsche 991. :rofl:

car-fan
01-03-2012, 10:18 PM
Feel totally at one with my M - maybe the perfect car for me....
Yesterday was my birthday and we went for a drive in the West Virginia mountains....with M Mode fully engaged....I am still sporting a giant grin....
Vrrooomm!

BTW I occasionally lurk over here ...if all goes to plan - my M3 will be
joined by a 650i F13 next Christmas...so I try to stay informed....
Of course, by next Christmas, you will have moved on to a Porsche 991. :rofl:

Happy Belated Birthday! A drive through the mountains? That must have been an aural treat, perfect compliment to the precise handling...:thumbup: F13 and an E92 M3 - that's a nice stable:)

991?:yikes: Shisssshh dont' tell anyone;) :rofl: I hope to keep the F12 for a while, but the new 911 has caught my eye. Still love the 6. Once the top issue is resolved, I'll be a happy camper.