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Itinj6
02-11-2012, 04:18 AM
Just going through some old threads in this forum and noticed something different. My 650i Vert (Non M-Sport, Non ARS) has:

Comfort - Normal - Sport - Sport+.

Another thread i came across (believe it was by TopDownInFL) has:

Comfort+ - Comfort - Sport - Sport+

Anyone know why the difference? Could it be Coupe vs Vert? M-Sport vs Non M-Sport? ARS vs no ARS? I'm also curious as to the feel difference in the drive modes, particularly Comfort+ which I don't have.

southern6er22
02-11-2012, 06:24 AM
I noticed that as well. Mine (650xi coupe + M Sport + ARS) has Comfort+, Comfort, Sport, and Sport+. I'm not sure if there is a real difference between them. My impression is Comfort+ = Comfort and Comfort = Normal.

I've noticed a remarkable difference between Comfort and Sport, especially regarding how it shifts and exhaust sound (maybe a difference in the feel, probably due to the activity of the ARS). I'm struggling to find a difference between Comfort+ and Comfort. I typically just go back and forth between Comfort and Sport as Comfort+ isn't all that different and I tend to shy away from turning off DSC and activating DTC.

Side note: I'm currently at the Performance Center for a few days having an awesome time. I'll do a thread with my experience after my trip, but just based on yesterday (in a 650i Convertible non-M Sport), 2 things really stood out: 1) with DSC active it is nearly impossible to spin. There were several tight corners I hit with the steering angle very tight with my foot on the accelerator thinking I was gonna lose it a couple times (not because of the way the car felt, but my understanding of physics made be weary), and it stayed in control. 2) Exhaust difference was very different from mine. My M Sport sounds great most of the time, but especially in Sport. Yesterday in the non-M, the exhaust was very mild and hardly noticeable.

TopDownInFL
02-11-2012, 07:14 AM
+1

I'm guessing the differentiation between "normal" and "comfort" on the M-package is to indicate that one is still driving in a non-sport-ish mode. (that is, someone could think that what is "normal" for the M-package - without realizing there is no performance improvement other than the rev limiter being lifted - is a faster drive than comfort). Not sure, but BMW usually has their reasons.

There is a very noticeable difference in acceleration and response between comfort+ and sport. (I normally drive around town in comfort+, but switch to sport on the highway).

XZLR8
02-11-2012, 09:12 AM
I've been wondering about this, too, especially since the options are different in my 535xi M-Sport.

My 650xi w/ ARS, I have Comfort+, Comfort, Sport, and Sport+. Am I to take that to mean that there is no "Normal," or is it that "Comfort" is the default mode? If I put the car in Sport, as I most often do, coming down from that does directly to Comfort (but the word "Comfort" doesn't remain displayed on my gauge, like the other modes). There's no step in between... no Normal, if you will.

My 535xi w/ MSport & ARS, I have Comfort+, Comfort, Normal, Sport, and Sport+. Five selections. Default at startup is the "Normal" mode.

Thebreadman
02-11-2012, 09:54 AM
Comfort is normal. Every time I start my car it defaults to Comfort, no matter what mode I was in the last timely car was running.

The question I have is what is the difference between Sport and Sport+? Only thing I can tell is Sport+ turns off traction control. Is there anything else? Seems dumb if that's it...

southern6er22
02-11-2012, 10:32 AM
I think DSC off and DTC on is the only difference with Sport+. It is a little redundant, but I think that was the marketing people stepping in saying Sport+ sounds cooler. I guess it also keeps all the selections within the rocker switch.

leejae76
02-11-2012, 01:37 PM
I have 650 m package + awd as well and it doesnt have "normal" either. Perhaps its 640 vs. 650 issue rather than m package difference?

Would love to know. Anyone with 640 here?

Itinj6
02-11-2012, 02:16 PM
I have 650 m package + awd as well and it doesnt have "normal" either. Perhaps its 640 vs. 650 issue rather than m package difference?

Would love to know. Anyone with 640 here?

Mine is a 650 and it has "Normal" setting.

Itinj6
02-11-2012, 02:37 PM
Speaking of DTC and DSC, it's a little confusing to me. I believe DTC is a subsystem of DSC. The car defaults to DSC active which also means DTC is active. Am I correct so far? When you press the DSC button once, it deactivates DSC. Is it also deactivating DTC at the same time? When you hold the button down, it activates DTC but leaves DSC deactivated. When you play around with DCS and DTC, the drive mode reverts back to Normal (or Comfort for some of you). In other words, you can't have Sport or Sport+ with both DSC and DTC deactivated. How does this sound? Am I way off?

JONNYCHIRO
02-11-2012, 02:48 PM
No Normal on my M. I, too, would like a profile that let me have Sport as default. No dice presently.
Comfort/Plus feels too floaty. I've only deliberately taken it off Sport to Comfort when I was on an old brick road that rattled the teeth in my head. I could also see comfort on a really long drive. It definitely drinks a lot more gas in Sport but it's worth it.

There's a disconnect in Comfort between the vehicle and the feel of the road as well as responsiveness that I just don't dig. :rolleyes:

Itinj6
02-11-2012, 02:53 PM
I've only deliberately taken it off Sport to Comfort when I was on an old brick road that rattled the teeth in my head.
No you didn't.

[/QUOTE]I could also see comfort on a really long drive. [/QUOTE]
No you can't

;)

JONNYCHIRO
02-11-2012, 03:01 PM
HA HA HA HA HA :) You know what, you got me!!! I did take it off for a second to see if it felt smoother. It absolutely did. But I don't like the floaty boaty so I switched it back to teeth rattle mode. It was a short road. :)

Dammit you got me again! I drove to Miami (3 hours) and, again, experimented w. the Comfort/Plus for like two minutes. It's just not my bag baby! :)

Too funny.

southern6er22
02-11-2012, 03:17 PM
I just had a tutorial on the difference at the Performance Center. Here's my understanding of Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) and Dynamic Traction Control (DTC):

DSC is always on (default) when you start the car. It is the most stable setting that pretty much will not let you spin in 99% of situations. DTC is DSC but more freedom - but also more ability to lose control. DTC is activated by going to Sport+ or pressing and releasing the DTC (car with squiggly lines beneath it) button. Holding the DTC button for several seconds deactivates everything - no DSC or DTC.

I got a little drift in a 135i with it set in DTC, but it was enough to keep me from spinning (which would have happened without any computer assistance).

On the skid pad and wet "rat race" track we turned off DSC completely and spinning definitely occurred... about a half a dozen times. lol. Lots of fun, but not in a place with traffic and obstacles :)

Summary: DTC = DSC lite
Hope this helps explain it.

Itinj6
02-11-2012, 03:20 PM
HA HA HA HA HA :) You know what, you got me!!! I did take it off for a second to see if it felt smoother. It absolutely did. But I don't like the floaty boaty so I switched it back to teeth rattle mode. It was a short road. :)

Dammit you got me again! I drove to Miami (3 hours) and, again, experimented w. the Comfort/Plus for like two minutes. It's just not my bag baby! :)

Too funny.

I had to get you back for Southern lol. Besides, I knew I smelled something familiar. Kinda like... bullsh*t? Lol

Itinj6
02-11-2012, 03:22 PM
I just had a tutorial on the difference at the Performance Center. Here's my understanding of Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) and Dynamic Traction Control (DTC):

DSC is always on (default) when you start the car. It is the most stable setting that pretty much will not let you spin in 99% of situations. DTC is DSC but more freedom - but also more ability to lose control. DTC is activated by going to Sport+ or pressing and releasing the DTC (car with squiggly lines beneath it) button. Holding the DTC button for several seconds deactivates everything - no DSC or DTC.

I got a little drift in a 135i with it set in DTC, but it was enough to keep me from spinning (which would have happened without any computer assistance).

On the skid pad and wet "rat race" track we turned off DSC completely and spinning definitely occurred... about a half a dozen times. lol. Lots of fun, but not in a place with traffic and obstacles :)

Summary: DTC = DSC lite
Hope this helps explain it.

Great information. Thanks for the clarification. That sounds like an awesome trip BTW, you lucky bastard!

JONNYCHIRO
02-11-2012, 03:24 PM
Look at the big brain on Southern!

Thanks man for the explanation. I am sure I won't forget it or mix up the letters or anything else like that.

Enjoy the Drift! I am jealous!

Itinj6
02-11-2012, 03:28 PM
I was a little confused because, if you press and hold the DSC button, the word "Traction" is illuminated on the instrument cluster. I thought that meant it was active. Would it kill them to have "Traction Off" written there? Lol, like the car with the squiggly lines says "Off" under it on the instrumentation for DSC.

Itinj6
02-11-2012, 03:30 PM
Look at the big brain on Southern!

Thanks man for the explanation. I am sure I won't forget it or mix up the letters or anything else like that.

Enjoy the Drift! I am jealous!

Don't worry about confusing the letters or anything. The only thing that concerns you is "Sport". That's all you need to know. If you see that on the dash, then all is right in the world. Lol

southern6er22
02-11-2012, 04:36 PM
Haha. The trip has been great. Learning a lot. I'll have a full report afterwards.

I'm happy with Sport - off the track I think Sport+ will get me in trouble. I know I'm not nearly good enough to be making crazy maneuvers. Any cool drifts or maneuvers on the track were accidents followed by a "how the **** did I do that?" or ""**** this is a good car."

roadsta
02-11-2012, 05:07 PM
Could it be linked to ARS? (Also called Dynamic Drive in other parts of the world)

I got this from a BMW tech website:

"...The stabilisers continually adapt to suit the driving situation and the changes to the vehicle's self-steering behaviour. For example, when driving on the straight, Dynamic Drive reduces the pressure of the stabilisers, treating them individually, so allowing for a highly comfortable ride ..."

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/technology_guide/articles/dynamic_drive.html

r

southern6er22
02-11-2012, 05:48 PM
ARS is linked to the Driving Dynamics Control. The amount of tension in the bars is adjusted to be tighter in Sport mode and softer in the Comfort settings.

Itinj6
02-11-2012, 06:13 PM
ARS is linked to the Driving Dynamics Control. The amount of tension in the bars is adjusted to be tighter in Sport mode and softer in the Comfort settings.

Damn Southern... I dub thee, BMW God. Lol. This trip is turning you into the brains of this forum.

southern6er22
02-11-2012, 06:32 PM
LOL. This has been a huge sacrifice for me - I have had to suffer through this freezing northern weather, skip three days of classes, lose a weekend, leave my new car behind, and drive someone else's BMWs on a track for three days. Hard job, but I'm happy to help. Although I'm serious about the weather. It has been around 30 degrees here - I only deal with these temperatures while in Aspen. Luckily all of the test cars have had heated seats and steering wheels :)

roadsta
02-11-2012, 07:39 PM
ARS is linked to the Driving Dynamics Control. The amount of tension in the bars is adjusted to be tighter in Sport mode and softer in the Comfort settings.

Sure. But what I was wondering was - does that mean that only cars with ARS has the comfort+ setting. In other words, does it mean no ARS, no Comfort+ setting.

r

unlaidenswallow
02-11-2012, 07:51 PM
Sure. But what I was wondering was - does that mean that only cars with ARS has the comfort+ setting. In other words, does it mean no ARS, no Comfort+ setting.

r

Nope - I decided to pass on ARS but I have those same 4 - comfort +, comfort, sport, and sport +.

So the difference between those 4 and comfort, normal, sport, sport + doesn't seem to be vert vs coupe or m-package vs non. Don't think it's x-drive vs non (but maybe?). Or maybe it's simply a change they made over time - the later production dates seem to label it comfort + and comfort as opposed to comfort and normal.

southern6er22
02-11-2012, 09:14 PM
Nope - I decided to pass on ARS but I have those same 4 - comfort +, comfort, sport, and sport +.

So the difference between those 4 and comfort, normal, sport, sport + doesn't seem to be vert vs coupe or m-package vs non. Don't think it's x-drive vs non (but maybe?). Or maybe it's simply a change they made over time - the later production dates seem to label it comfort + and comfort as opposed to comfort and normal.

+1. That makes the most sense from what we've heard from everyone. Those who have had their cars longer (earlier production dates) seem to have Comfort and Normal whereas those of us who have later build dates (unlaidenswallow, Jonny, and myself - between our cars, we have the same toggle switch (DDC) settings but the ARS, M Sport, xDrive, and Coupe/Vert are NOT constants - delivery dates 12/31/11 to Present) have Comfort and Comfort+. Just my thoughts given the data, but that is all.

roadsta
02-11-2012, 11:36 PM
+1. That makes the most sense from what we've heard from everyone. Those who have had their cars longer (earlier production dates) seem to have Comfort and Normal whereas those of us who have later build dates (unlaidenswallow, Jonny, and myself - between our cars, we have the same toggle switch (DDC) settings but the ARS, M Sport, xDrive, and Coupe/Vert are NOT constants - delivery dates 12/31/11 to Present) have Comfort and Comfort+. Just my thoughts given the data, but that is all.

I buy this. Mine is an Oct 11 build, and it has C+, C, S, S+. More logical nomenclature anyway.

r

southern6er22
02-12-2012, 06:40 AM
When was yours built, Itinj6? You've had your vert for a while longer than most of us have had our 6ers (or maybe your saga just made it seem like a long time haha). Anyone else want to share their build date and what settings you have? A sampling of 4 cars probably isn't sufficient... but we may get somewhere with 5 or 6. lol.

Thebreadman
02-12-2012, 09:33 AM
Build date of 12/11. I have C+, C, S, S+.

XZLR8
02-12-2012, 11:45 AM
Build date of 12/11. I have C+, C, S, S+.
November build (I think?), with the same settings.

Itinj6
02-12-2012, 01:50 PM
When was yours built, Itinj6? You've had your vert for a while longer than most of us have had our 6ers (or maybe your saga just made it seem like a long time haha). Anyone else want to share their build date and what settings you have? A sampling of 4 cars probably isn't sufficient... but we may get somewhere with 5 or 6. lol.

I am looking for my paperwork lol. I took everything out of the car when I dropped it off at service the last time. I took delivery mid November but it was a floor model. It could be an older build though.

southern6er22
02-12-2012, 03:45 PM
Production probably started early-mid Spring 2011. I'm wondering if they switched it over the summer. Interesting...

Itinj6
02-12-2012, 04:04 PM
You are absolutely correct. The C+ must've been an update. My car's production date is June 21. I was kind of skeptical about the build date thing as the 650s at my dealership go like hot cakes. Everytime I am there, they have a new ones that I haven't seen before. I didn't suspect that mine was sitting there that long. Now that I think about it, I'm glad my new one is a custom build. I can imagine how many dirty asses and grubby paws were in my car for that five months on the floor.

I kinda liked the "Normal" setting. It made me feel like no systems were being used. I have this sickness where I think that the more I use something when it isn't necessary, it will break lol. Even with my heated seats, I tell the fiancée to shut them off once her tushy is nice and comfortable lol. Oh well. Comfort is the new Normal.

thom.one.two
02-12-2012, 07:43 PM
IDK. My F12 M Sport has Comfort +, Comfort, Sport, and Sport +

Comfort is always the default, but I always put it in Sport before reverse.

jettie1767
02-13-2012, 09:01 AM
Mine says comfort-normal-sport-sport+. 03/11 build. They must have renamed it later on last year.

JONNYCHIRO
02-13-2012, 12:42 PM
IDK. My F12 M Sport has Comfort +, Comfort, Sport, and Sport +

Comfort is always the default, but I always put it in Sport before reverse.

Gotta make that my S.O.P.
I usually go down the road a bit before I remember to switchbbb

Itinj6
02-13-2012, 02:11 PM
Gotta make that my S.O.P.
I usually go down the road a bit before I remember to switchbbb

You mean you don't have a checklist? I am more thorough with my car checklist than my aircraft checklist lol. For flying, I just do the quick "kick the tires, light the fires" method.

JONNYCHIRO
02-13-2012, 03:17 PM
I've got a checklist but it mostly involves the bathroom mirror and a lot of self aggrandisement.

southern6er22
02-13-2012, 03:51 PM
lol. Mine is:

1. Don't close door until I listen to the glorious sound of that engine.
2. Close door and listen for the auto window close to ensure the door actually closed (followed by cursing BMW for requiring this step).
3. Climate
4. Music
5. Quadruple check for curbs or obstacles that can damage that low body kit.
6. Leave the driveway.
7. Switch to Sport to pull out of the neighborhood so I don't get the neighborhood association annoyed at me - they're really just jealous...