1-series pricing

[andy_thomas]

1-series prices released:

http://www.bmw.co.uk/apm/corporate/news_index/0,3312,1208___cha-0%252Bchd-0%252Bco-148527862,00.html

Note that these are on-the-road prices for the UK only, and include registration and tax. They are not equivalent to the "sticker" price or "MSRP", although of course you can haggle for a discount, as the dealer margin is widely known (currently about 8%).

Autocar reported that the US will get most of the other variants of the 1er, in time. It also suggested that a 1-series sedan would be made exclusively for NA, as the market for small, premium sedans in Europe, with poor boot and rear seat space, is tiny.

IMO £15,700 is very poor value for the base 116i when you can currently buy a 316ti Edition Sport - with considerably better equipment levels, much more room and identical performance and economy - for £300 more. BMW has had its head up its ass recently with X3 pricing (with the 3.0 being priced only a whisker below the X5 3.0). Looks like the price structure for the new 3 can be pretty much confimed (take the 5er price, and knock a grand off)...

[Alex Baumann]

Andy, is the link correct ? I am getting the "404 Object Not Found" error.

Thanks :)

[andy_thomas]

Andy, is the link correct ? I am getting the "404 Object Not Found" error.

Thanks :)

Works for me... but if it won't play ball, go to www.bmw.co.uk, click on "corporate sales" (BMW GB really *does* know which side its bread is buttered :)) and it's the first new item.

[Alex Baumann]

Works for me... but if it won't play ball, go to www.bmw.co.uk, click on "corporate sales" (BMW GB really *does* know which side its bread is buttered :)) and it's the first new item.

Cool, thanks !

[e.biemold]

1-series prices released:

http://www.bmw.co.uk/apm/corporate/news_index/0,3312,1208___cha-0%252Bchd-0%252Bco-148527862,00.html

Note that these are on-the-road prices for the UK only, and include registration and tax. They are not equivalent to the "sticker" price or "MSRP", although of course you can haggle for a discount, as the dealer margin is widely known (currently about 8%).

Autocar reported that the US will get most of the other variants of the 1er, in time. It also suggested that a 1-series sedan would be made exclusively for NA, as the market for small, premium sedans in Europe, with poor boot and rear seat space, is tiny.

IMO £15,700 is very poor value for the base 116i when you can currently buy a 316ti Edition Sport - with considerably better equipment levels, much more room and identical performance and economy - for £300 more. BMW has had its head up its ass recently with X3 pricing (with the 3.0 being priced only a whisker below the X5 3.0). Looks like the price structure for the new 3 can be pretty much confimed (take the 5er price, and knock a grand off)...

In the Netherlands the cheapest 1 series (116) will cost around € 25.500. A 316ti costs € 26.750. I also think that unless you want/need 4 doors the 316ti will be a better buy.

[Alex Baumann]

OK, prices in Germany have been announced as well :

116i : 19.800 EUR
120i : 23.600 EUR
118d: 21.900 EUR
120d: 24.400 EUR

With today's EUR/USD exchange rate at $1.20

116i : $ 23.760
120i : $ 28.320
118d : $ 26.280
120d : $29.280

All prices includes 16% sales tax in Germany.

[Motown328]

Why such the big difference between the Dutch and German price?!?!?! :dunno:

Also, I don't think the U.S. price for a 120 (minus the diesel) would approach $30k. The U.S. has the cheapest BMWs in the world and who would take a 1er over a 3er at identical price??! So the U.S. pricing, if it gets here, has to be quite different.

[kyfdx]

Why such the big difference between the Dutch and German price?!?!?! :dunno:

Also, I don't think the U.S. price for a 120 (minus the diesel) would approach $30k. The U.S. has the cheapest BMWs in the world and who would take a 1er over a 3er at identical price??! So the U.S. pricing, if it gets here, has to be quite different.

All prices include 16% sales tax....

I think that is your answer.. subtract about $4000 from those prices.

[e.biemold]

Why such the big difference between the Dutch and German price?!?!?! :dunno:

Also, I don't think the U.S. price for a 120 (minus the diesel) would approach $30k. The U.S. has the cheapest BMWs in the world and who would take a 1er over a 3er at identical price??! So the U.S. pricing, if it gets here, has to be quite different.

The price difference between Germany and the Netherlands is caused by the VAT rate (19% vs 17%??) and the a special car tax in the Netherlands called BPM.

The BPM for my car is € 6.785 :mad:

[andy_thomas]

Why such the big difference between the Dutch and German price?!?!?! :dunno:

Also, I don't think the U.S. price for a 120 (minus the diesel) would approach $30k. The U.S. has the cheapest BMWs in the world and who would take a 1er over a 3er at identical price??! So the U.S. pricing, if it gets here, has to be quite different.

If these prices were set two years ago when the euro was tanking, you'd be looking at nearer $20,000 for the top model, not $30,000. But with the dollar barely buying €0.85, BMW NA cannot afford to bring the model in unless it can cut an amazing deal with AG - which isn't going to happen, not for a small, premium car like this. It's moot anyhow - the 5-door 1er will probably not be offered for sale in the US.

[PhilH]

OK, prices in Germany have been announced as well :

116i : 19.800 EUR
120i : 23.600 EUR
118d: 21.900 EUR
120d: 24.400 EUR

With today's EUR/USD exchange rate at $1.20

116i : $ 23.760
120i : $ 28.320
118d : $ 26.280
120d : $29.280

All prices includes 16% sales tax in Germany.
Checking the BMW web site for Germany, I see the following prices for the E46 sedans:
316i : 24,150 EUR, or 22% higher than a similar 1-series
320i : 29,800 EUR, or 26% higher than a similar 1-series
318d: 26,350 EUR, or 20% higher than a similar 1-series
320d: 28,200 EUR, or 16% higher than a similar 1-series

If this pricing stategy carries over to the US we might expect a 125i (or 225i if we just get the coupe) to base between $22,800 and $24,800 (based on a percentage reduction on the price of a US 325i).

Of course, this assumes all things are equal in the US market, and we know that's not the case, but it's sort of interesting. The price range even sounds a little low, especially considering the dollar's weakness versus the Euro. All of BMW's US pricing should be moving upwards within the next year or two unless the currency situation reverses itself.

[Chris90]

At $1.22 US to the Euro, I don't see how BMW will be able to sell any cars here once their hedge funds run out in 2005. Who's gonna pay $60,000 for a 330? Or am I missing something?

[Alex Baumann]

At $1.22 US to the Euro, I don't see how BMW will be able to sell any cars here once their hedge funds run out in 2005. Who's gonna pay $60,000 for a 330? Or am I missing something?

US will probably get adjusted prices and more standard options than in Europe. The Euro version don't even have A/C.

[Motown328]

At $1.22 US to the Euro, I don't see how BMW will be able to sell any cars here once their hedge funds run out in 2005. Who's gonna pay $60,000 for a 330? Or am I missing something?

Hey! That's a good point! :thumbup:

Might lead to more U.S. production facilities being created.

But, as Alex mentioned, will more standardized options, etc. really tame the costs??? Rumors around are saying that the new e90 might even be a little cheaper that the current e46, adjusted for inflation of course. But those, like most everything else, are just rumors.

[Motown328]

All prices include 16% sales tax....

I think that is your answer.. subtract about $4000 from those prices.

DOH! Forgot about that (even right after I read it too! must be getting old...hahaha)!!!

[Alex Baumann]

Rumors around are saying that the new e90 might even be a little cheaper that the current e46, adjusted for inflation of course. But those, like most everything else, are just rumors.

Don't believe a single word saying that the E90 will be cheaper than the E46. As Andy predicted before, it will probably start from a few thousand bucks cheaper than the E60.

[Motown328]

Don't believe a single word saying that the E90 will be cheaper than the E46. As Andy predicted before, it will probably start from a few thousand bucks cheaper than the E60.

So are we talking US$37,000 or so for the e90?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!! :yikes:

NO WAY!!! That would be blasphemy!!!! :thumbdwn:

Looks like it will either be a nice '01/'02 5er or '00 M3 for that next ride...not that I'm complaining...hehehe..

But seriously, $37,000 U.S. for a base e90 (even with a stronger engine than current) would be THE SUCK. It would have to put a dent in the 3er sales numbers...

[andy_thomas]

US will probably get adjusted prices and more standard options than in Europe. The Euro version don't even have A/C.

"Un-optioned" european versions are relatively de-contented, but most do at least get A/C (and a stereo!) as standard. Also I note a large number of nice-looking packages available in the domestic market, now the E46 is moving toward its twilight years...

But seriously, $37,000 U.S. for a base e90 (even with a stronger engine than current) would be THE SUCK. It would have to put a dent in the 3er sales numbers...

I would kill for a $37,000 "entry level" E90 325i - that's barely more than £20k :). I suspect that the 1er leaves room for BMW to move the 3er even further upmarket, and that its pricing will be slightly below the 5er's, a la X3/X5.

[Alex Baumann]

"Un-optioned" european versions are relatively de-contented, but most do at least get A/C (and a stereo!) as standard. Also I note a large number of nice-looking packages available in the domestic market, now the E46 is moving toward its twilight years...

Yes, I have seen the packages too. But the base german versions won't have A/C and stereo.
:rolleyes:

[Motown328]

I would kill for a $37,000 "entry level" E90 325i - that's barely more than £20k :). I suspect that the 1er leaves room for BMW to move the 3er even further upmarket, and that its pricing will be slightly below the 5er's, a la X3/X5.

WOW! If that is the case, then sales here in the U.S. will take a hit. Not only because of the price increase, but because of the tough competition now squarely aimed at taking away anything they can from the 3-Series. People will look elsewhere if their only choice is a $37,000 3er or a $17,000 Mini and nothing in between. How silly. BMW WILL NEED to bring over the 1er if they plan on being competitive.

[Motown328]

Yes, I have seen the packages too. But the base german versions won't have A/C and stereo.
:rolleyes:

I wonder how many Americans would be shocked to hear about this regarding a BMW. Hahaha... :rofl: :rolleyes: :)

[Chris90]

US will probably get adjusted prices and more standard options than in Europe. The Euro version don't even have A/C.

Current BMW prices are based on around $0.90 to the Euro. When BMW's hedge runs out next year, they'll have to readjust US prices to account for the $1.20/Euro rate, which is about 30% higher. So either BMW will raise US prices by 30%, or they will take a loss on each car they sell. Sure they can add content, but who's gonna pay $45,000 for a 325i, even with AC?

The only hope as I see it is a recovery in the dollar. Porsche was smarter, they are fully hedged until 2007.

[Motown328]

Current BMW prices are based on around $0.90 to the Euro. When BMW's hedge runs out next year, they'll have to readjust US prices to account for the $1.20/Euro rate, which is about 30% higher. So either BMW will raise US prices by 30%, or they will take a loss on each car they sell. Sure they can add content, but who's gonna pay $45,000 for a 325i, even with AC?

The only hope as I see it is a recovery in the dollar. Porsche was smarter, they are fully hedged until 2007.

What's this talk of "hedge accounts"? I have heard of them before, but am not the financial wiz... Can someone fill me in???! :)

[PhilH]

They're futures contracts. You've basically bought a contract which freezes the exchange rate between currencies. They can be used to insulate international companies from losses due to exchange rate movements.

[Motown328]

They're futures contracts. You've basically bought a contract which freezes the exchange rate between currencies. They can be used to insulate international companies from losses due to exchange rate movements.

Thank you much.

Now with that, 2005 will definitely be an interesting year...huge product announcement combined with failing exchange rates (if it stays the way it is now).

[Fifty_Cent]

Guys.
Things are simple, dont make them complicated.
For the 1 series, take the factory duty free price of any 1 series model.

Add all the US taxes that apply for the US...
+ shipping
+ dealer percentage profit
and you have your answer.

Prices I saw here are too high for the US market for a 1 series.









1-series prices released:

http://www.bmw.co.uk/apm/corporate/news_index/0,3312,1208___cha-0%252Bchd-0%252Bco-148527862,00.html

Note that these are on-the-road prices for the UK only, and include registration and tax. They are not equivalent to the "sticker" price or "MSRP", although of course you can haggle for a discount, as the dealer margin is widely known (currently about 8%).

Autocar reported that the US will get most of the other variants of the 1er, in time. It also suggested that a 1-series sedan would be made exclusively for NA, as the market for small, premium sedans in Europe, with poor boot and rear seat space, is tiny.

IMO £15,700 is very poor value for the base 116i when you can currently buy a 316ti Edition Sport - with considerably better equipment levels, much more room and identical performance and economy - for £300 more. BMW has had its head up its ass recently with X3 pricing (with the 3.0 being priced only a whisker below the X5 3.0). Looks like the price structure for the new 3 can be pretty much confimed (take the 5er price, and knock a grand off)...

[Chris90]

The way gas prices are growing here, I think you may see a massive SUV and gas guzzler backlash in the next few years. Perfect timing for a $30k 1 series, if BMW NA can get off their ass.

[andy_thomas]

Guys.
Things are simple, dont make them complicated.
For the 1 series, take the factory duty free price of any 1 series model.

Add all the US taxes that apply for the US...
+ shipping
+ dealer percentage profit
and you have your answer.

Prices I saw here are too high for the US market for a 1 series.

They're too high here (UK) too, but BMW will shift 15,000 of them in the first year - no question. Sort of questions the term "too high" :(.

[Sean]

Said it before and I'll say it again, Give me a M2 coupe! :thumbup:

[Motown328]

The way gas prices are growing here, I think you may see a massive SUV and gas guzzler backlash in the next few years. Perfect timing for a $30k 1 series, if BMW NA can get off their ass.

Perfect timing for BMW to unseat VW and announce and market their diesel engines in the U.S. By end of 2005, U.S. consumers will have become much more savvy and much more interested in diesels for their autos. BMW can do some major damage in this area by coming out with a premium small sedan with modern diesel technology. Think about the possibilites!!!!! :thumbup:

[swchang]

Diesels are cool, because more options are cool. :thumbup:

Moving the 3er more upscale would be a bad move, methinks, unless MB, Audi, etc. move their cars upscale as well. Adding the 1er as a slightly cheaper alternative ain't gonna cut it in the entry-luxury market for BMW.

But who knows? Maybe I'll be eating my words when the 1er breaks all sorts of sales records and everyone else is forced to move downmarket as well. (Not bloody likely.)

[hector]

does anyone know exactly when the current currency contracts expire?, 2005 was mentioned but does that mean at the end of 2005?, more to the point, when exactly would pricing cease to reflect the current hedge, on a personal note- my lease for my 330ci is up in 3/06, i was planning to replace it at that time with an e90 or an e87(depending on availability, engines, style, etc), would a preemptive move such as buying an e90 in late '05 be a way to avoid a potential price hike?, or are we just basically screwed?

[Chris90]

does anyone know exactly when the current currency contracts expire?, 2005 was mentioned but does that mean at the end of 2005?, more to the point, when exactly would pricing cease to reflect the current hedge, on a personal note- my lease for my 330ci is up in 3/06, i was planning to replace it at that time with an e90 or an e87(depending on availability, engines, style, etc), would a preemptive move such as buying an e90 in late '05 be a way to avoid a potential price hike?, or are we just basically screwed?

All I heard was 2005, it could be Jan 1 2005 even. But don't worry, usually you get several months notice before a price increase. Keep an eye on the dollar, if it doesn't recover, plan on a huge price increase by 2006.

[hector]

All I heard was 2005, it could be Jan 1 2005 even. But don't worry, usually you get several months notice before a price increase. Keep an eye on the dollar, if it doesn't recover, plan on a huge price increase by 2006.


thanks dawg

[Fifty_Cent]

They're too high here (UK) too, but BMW will shift 15,000 of them in the first year - no question. Sort of questions the term "too high" :(.
What I meant was that the prices some members stated here were too high for the US market.

I belive that the final price for the US will be alot cheaper than 30k$

[Fifty_Cent]

Btw, 1 seires rivals are:(by BMW Official pokesman)

1. VW Golf
2. OPEL ASTRA
3. AUDI A3

[PhilH]

FWIW, I think prices will increase (unless there's a big turnaround in exchange rates), but it'll be nowhere near 30%. There's nothing that says BMW must earn a certain profit margin in each of its markets. They have to compete with other carmakers, including the US brands that have no currency exposure, and they want their market share. An E90 325i won't be $28k, but it won't be $37k either. I figure somewhere around $31k is reasonable.

They also don't need to do the price increase all at once, either. Just because their current hedge runs out in 2005, they must have some additional hedging that runs out at a later date as well. They don't want to shock the consumer and will gradually raise prices while keeping an eye on exchange rates (among other factors).

Just my $.02.

[kyfdx]

Currency values fluctuate.. I wouldn't be concerned that BMW is only hedged through 2005. There is a very good chance that as interest rates head higher, that the exchange rates could head the other way. Hedging isn't free, either.. I wouldn't base my car buying plans on the Euro vs. Dollar.. BMW is like every other manufacturer.. they have to keep the plants busy to make money, even if that means making less on each car.

For all we know, the Euro could be worth $.95 USD sometime in 2005.

[Chris90]

Currency values fluctuate.. I wouldn't be concerned that BMW is only hedged through 2005. There is a very good chance that as interest rates head higher, that the exchange rates could head the other way. Hedging isn't free, either.. I wouldn't base my car buying plans on the Euro vs. Dollar.. BMW is like every other manufacturer.. they have to keep the plants busy to make money, even if that means making less on each car.

For all we know, the Euro could be worth $.95 USD sometime in 2005.

Yeah true, I'm hoping for a rise in the dollar as well. But the dollar depreciation is not a recent phenomenon, it was going on when interest rates were higher - I think it's a long term trend, especially as our national debt skyrockets so that 20% of our tax revenues go toward debt financing.

BMW may keep dropping quality to maintain profit - has anyone sat in a new X3 or 5 series recently?

[swchang]

Yeah true, I'm hoping for a rise in the dollar as well. But the dollar depreciation is not a recent phenomenon, it was going on when interest rates were higher - I think it's a long term trend, especially as our national debt skyrockets so that 20% of our tax revenues go toward debt financing.

BMW may keep dropping quality to maintain profit - has anyone sat in a new X3 or 5 series recently?

Shh, don't let the E60 owners on the board hear you. They don't like 3-series owners bashing their cars. :p ;)

[Motown328]

Yeah true, I'm hoping for a rise in the dollar as well. But the dollar depreciation is not a recent phenomenon, it was going on when interest rates were higher - I think it's a long term trend, especially as our national debt skyrockets so that 20% of our tax revenues go toward debt financing.

BMW may keep dropping quality to maintain profit - has anyone sat in a new X3 or 5 series recently?

Guys, this is all depressing news. Higher prices, worse quality, VW Golf.............all of it gives me heartburn.... :bawling:

I need some good news!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SoN][c]

20,700 pounds for a 120d?? 163hp diesel engine??
That's over $50,000 Canadian. I'd rather get a 330i w/ sport package for that price.

crazy!

[andy_thomas]

[c']20,700 pounds for a 120d?? 163hp diesel engine??
That's over $50,000 Canadian. I'd rather get a 330i w/ sport package for that price.

crazy!

That's a slightly pointless comparison, isn't it? The 1er isn't sold in Canada, and the 330i Sport isn't anything like CDN$50,000 in any market where the 1er is sold - it's more like $70-75,000.

£20,700 is steep, but no steeper than an equivalent A3 or Golf.

[Alex Baumann]

£20,700 is steep, but no steeper than an equivalent A3 or Golf.

Slightly OT, Andy, did you have a chance to take a look at the A3 interior ? My sister bought one, I had the opportunity to take a look at. The interior quality is much better than the E46, IMO. I don't know about the 1 Series interior though, but I'm guessing it will be similar to the E60 or Z4.

The only negative thing I have noticed in the A3 is the pedals are positioned way to the right. The interior ergonomics were a little disappointing. The middle tunnel is pretty wide for a FWD car.

[andy_thomas]

Slightly OT, Andy, did you have a chance to take a look at the A3 interior ? My sister bought one, I had the opportunity to take a look at. The interior quality is much better than the E46, IMO. I don't know about the 1 Series interior though, but I'm guessing it will be similar to the E60 or Z4.

The only negative thing I have noticed in the A3 is the pedals are positioned way to the right. The interior ergonomics were a little disappointing. The middle tunnel is pretty wide for a FWD car.

http://www.audi.co.uk/newcars/galleryipix.jsp?section=/models/a3/a3&movie=interior

The A3 has a TT-esque interior as I recall, very solid - and leagues better than the Golf V. It'sa more sensible design than the E60; I think the odd design of the E60's dash contributes to the slightly cheap feel. For me the E46 was enough of a step up from the E36 for me to be happy with it. Mind you a modern Skoda is a step up from an E36. :)

[Motown328]

Mind you a modern Skoda is a step up from an E36. :)

Nothing against the Czechs, but........ :confused:


:p

[SoN][c]

That's a slightly pointless comparison, isn't it? The 1er isn't sold in Canada, and the 330i Sport isn't anything like CDN$50,000 in any market where the 1er is sold - it's more like $70-75,000.

£20,700 is steep, but no steeper than an equivalent A3 or Golf.


Regardless of where the 1er is/isn't sold, its still very expensive by Canadian standards.

The cost of a higher model here in Canada (3 series) costs about the same as a 1er in the UK! thats nuts.

For $70,000-75,000 CDN I can get an M3 !!!

[andy_thomas]

Nothing against the Czechs, but........ :confused:

:p

You need to sit inside a new Octavia or a Superb. The quality is at least as good as a Seat, which in turn is as good as a current VW Golf. But the prices are considerably lower than equivalent VWs - and the glovebox always fits :).

[Alex Baumann]

You need to sit inside a new Octavia or a Superb. The quality is at least as good as a Seat, which in turn is as good as a current VW Golf. But the prices are considerably lower than equivalent VWs - and the glovebox always fits :).

Agreed. I sat in the Superb. It is very nice, the interior quality is as good as the Passat.

[Blax]

All I heard was 2005, it could be Jan 1 2005 even. But don't worry, usually you get several months notice before a price increase. Keep an eye on the dollar, if it doesn't recover, plan on a huge price increase by 2006.

In terms of the currency, BMW does not have to worry about the rates as much as companies like Porsche (as mentioned above) since they built in their own Euro to US currency buffer system. It's in South Carolina and it's called a BMW factory.

They saw that currency rates with the US would always be an issue, so by building cars in the US and shipping them to Europe, they can balance out the problem somewhat. Obviously if the Euro goes up and prices stay the same, every time a car is shipped to the US, BMW lose money relatively. But by the same token, if they ship an X5 or a Z4 to Europe during the same period, they make MORE money on that deal. It's a wash.

All of you driving 3 series cars which were built in South Africa are obviously enjoy this manufacturing quirk too.

BMW can never increase the costs of the 3 series much, since they know we will all go and buy an A4, C320, G35, WRX (etc etc etc) instead. It will presumably go up somewhat with the new model, but nothing to worry about.

[SoN][c]

In terms of the currency, BMW does not have to worry about the rates as much as companies like Porsche (as mentioned above) since they built in their own Euro to US currency buffer system. It's in South Carolina and it's called a BMW factory.

They saw that currency rates with the US would always be an issue, so by building cars in the US and shipping them to Europe, they can balance out the problem somewhat. Obviously if the Euro goes up and prices stay the same, every time a car is shipped to the US, BMW lose money relatively. But by the same token, if they ship an X5 or a Z4 to Europe during the same period, they make MORE money on that deal. It's a wash.

All of you driving 3 series cars which were built in South Africa are obviously enjoy this manufacturing quirk too.

BMW can never increase the costs of the 3 series much, since they know we will all go and buy an A4, C320, G35, WRX (etc etc etc) instead. It will presumably go up somewhat with the new model, but nothing to worry about.


Aren't there WAY more 3,5,6,7,etc series coming to the USA than Z4 & X5's leaving?? If so, then how much would the Z4 and X5 sales really offset/buffer the currency losses??

[Chris90]

I don't think there's much market outside the US for the X5, certainly not in Europe or Japan, and the Z4 is small volume in Europe, so I wouldn't count on those sales to make up for the huge numbers of imported BMWs.

All those other carmakers you mentioned will have the same problem with a weak US dollar. I don't think the dollar has even been this weak, we are in new territory.